Why Won't CTers Ask Themselves This Logical Question Concerning The
David Von Pein
All SBT haters should be asking themselves this:
If the SBT is completely impossible (as so many CTers firmly believe), how
in the world would the WC and the FBI even be able to FUDGE the "SBT"
results as seen in CE903 and have those results come anywhere close to
duplicating (at least fairly closely) the positioning of the victims in
the car AND the wound locations on the TWO victims?
In other words, in any kind of a shooting scenario that a CTer could
hypothesize to replace the SBT, wasn't it absolutely remarkable (and
super-lucky) to have those two or three different gunmen hit the TWO
victims with their two or three or four bullets in almost exactly the
locations on the two mens' bodies so that on May 24, 1964, the WC and the
FBI could connect those various bullet holes and FUDGE A PRETTY DAMN
NICE-LOOKING SINGLE-BULLET EVENT?
Why don't any of the conspiracy-loving kooks EVER ask themselves that
reasonable question?
http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/119.+CE903?gda=Fw3AIzw
Anthony Marsh
> All SBT haters should be asking themselves this:
>
> If the SBT is completely impossible (as so many CTers firmly believe), how
> in the world would the WC and the FBI even be able to FUDGE the "SBT"
> results as seen in CE903 and have those results come anywhere close to
> duplicating (at least fairly closely) the positioning of the victims in
> the car AND the wound locations on the TWO victims?
>
The SBT is not completely impossible. The way the WC and HSCA got even
close was by lying. Leave out the FBI. They did not believe in the SBT.
> In other words, in any kind of a shooting scenario that a CTer could
> hypothesize to replace the SBT, wasn't it absolutely remarkable (and
> super-lucky) to have those two or three different gunmen hit the TWO
> victims with their two or three or four bullets in almost exactly the
> locations on the two mens' bodies so that on May 24, 1964, the WC and the
> FBI could connect those various bullet holes and FUDGE A PRETTY DAMN
> NICE-LOOKING SINGLE-BULLET EVENT?
>
CE 903 shows us how easy it would be to barely miss Kennedy and hit
Connally by mistake.
pjspeare
through Connally is close but no cigar, as shown over and over again, why
shouldn't we think the shot came from someplace where it is a cigar, like
the Dal-Tex Building?
The trajectory in CE 903 passes inches above the back wound location,
which is why they submitted a photo taken from the front into evidence but
none from behind. And is why they had Shaneyfelt testify that it passed
through the back wound location, but failed to support this with an
exhibit.
Oh, that's right. The Earth is flat.
WBurg...@aol.com
BECAUSE ITS RIDICULOUS. THERE WAS NO SBT UNTIL THE ZAPRUDER FILM TIMING
PROBLEM SURFACED. SO THEY "CAME UP" WITH THIS ONE BULLET, SEVEN WOUNDS,
MORE FRAGMENTS IN CONNALLY THAN ARE NOT MISSING FROM CE399, AND ITS JUST
ONE MORE REASON TO BELIEVE, AS THE WARREN COMMISSION WAS CHARGED, BY LBJ,
TO CLOSE DOORS AND NOT OPEN THEM AND THE FEAR OF 40 MILLION AMERICANS
DEAD, CAUSING EARL WARREN TO CRY. EVEN THE MEMBERS OF THE WARREN
COMMISSION DID NOT BELIEVE THE SBT. IT'S SO MUCH CLEANER TO HAVE ANOTHER
RIFLEMAN HIT CONNALY, PROBABLY FROM THE WEST END OF THE SIXTH FLOOR, IF
YOU ANALYZE THE ANGLES. JFK'S CLOTHES ALONE NEGAT THE SBT.
Burgundy
Herbert Blenner
> All SBT haters should be asking themselves this:
>
> If the SBT is completely impossible (as so many CTers firmly believe), how
> in the world would the WC and the FBI even be able to FUDGE the "SBT"
> results as seen in CE903 and have those results come anywhere close to
> duplicating (at least fairly closely) the positioning of the victims in
> the car AND the wound locations on the TWO victims?
>
> In other words, in any kind of a shooting scenario that a CTer could
> hypothesize to replace the SBT, wasn't it absolutely remarkable (and
> super-lucky) to have those two or three different gunmen hit the TWO
> victims with their two or three or four bullets in almost exactly the
> locations on the two mens' bodies so that on May 24, 1964, the WC and the
> FBI could connect those various bullet holes and FUDGE A PRETTY DAMN
> NICE-LOOKING SINGLE-BULLET EVENT?
Doctor Shires provided part of the answer to your question.
Source:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0060a.htm
Mr. SPECTER - Now, looking again at Diagram No. 5, what is your
professional opinion, if you have one, as to whether Governor
Connally's chest injury, wrist injury, and thigh injury were caused by
the same bullet?
Dr. SHIRES - Well we all thought, me included, that this was probably
one missile, one bullet.
Mr. SPECTER - When you say "we all thought," whom do you mean by
that?
Dr. SHIRES - Dr. Shaw, Dr. Gregory---as we were reconstructing the
events in the operating room in an attempt to plot out trajectory as
best we could, this appeared to be our opinion.
Mr. SPECTER - Did any of your assistants consult with you in those
calculations?
Dr. SHIRES - I guess nearly all of them we have listed.
Mr. SPECTER - Dr. McClelland, Dr. Baxter and Dr. Patman?
Dr. SHIRES - Yes.
Mr. SPECTER - How about Dr. Osborne and Dr. Parker?
Dr. SHIRES - They were working with Dr. Gregory. If they discussed it,
I'm sure they did---it was before I got there.
Mr. SPECTER - How about Dr. Boland and Dr. Duke who worked with Dr.
Shaw?
Dr. SHIRES - Now, again, I talked to them and they were discussing it
as they did the chest procedure, and again thought the same thing.
Everyone was under the impression this was one missile---through and
through the chest, through and through the arm and the thigh.
Mr. SPECTER - Was there any one of the doctors on either of these
three teams who had a different point of view?
Dr. SHIRES - Not that I remember.
So before the repairs of the Governor were completed his doctors were
figuring out how one bullet could have inflicting the five wounds. No
doubt this activity explains how the Parkland doctors arrived at
wounds whose locations supported wounding by one bullet but whose
shapes and dimensions stood in contradiction with the locations of the
back and the thigh wounds.
>
> Why don't any of the conspiracy-loving kooks EVER ask themselves that
> reasonable question?
>
> http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/119.+CE903?gda=Fw3AIzw
Defenders of a single bullet event would do well to repudiate the
falsehood that a tumbling bullet made the 15 mm elliptical wound on
Connally's back and confront the contradiction between the tangential
entry of a bullet into the thigh as described by Doctor Shires and the
observation by Doctor Gregory of an almost round 6 mm hole in the
thigh.
Herbert
bigdog
Stop asking intelligent questions, David. Common sense has no part in
the fantasy CT world. In order to enter the CT world, one must check
their common sense at the door.
David Von Pein
>>> "CE 903 shows us how easy it would be to barely miss Kennedy and hit
Connally by mistake." <<<
Nope:
Let me guess. Dale Myers is a liar and a fraud. Right, Tony?
soilysound
It's just made up in other words.
David Von Pein
>>> "IT'S SO MUCH CLEANER TO HAVE ANOTHER RIFLEMAN HIT CONNALY [sic],
PROBABLY FROM THE WEST END OF THE SIXTH FLOOR, IF YOU ANALYZE THE ANGLES."
<<<
And then the multiple bullets that pelted the bodies of John Kennedy and
John Connally just disappeared into thin air, eh?
Allow me to once more ask the question that no conspiracy theorist has
ever been able to reasonably and believably answer since 1963:
WHERE DID THE BULLETS GO IF THE S.B.T. IS A PILE OF SHIT?
Related Note:
I was recently re-watching Robert Groden's DVD, "JFK: The Case For
Conspiracy", and I took note of Groden's absurd theory that has FOUR
bullets replacing CE399 and the SBT.
Groden has Kennedy being hit in the throat from some undefined location on
the grassy knoll (with the bullet never exiting JFK's body), and then he
has Kennedy being hit in the upper back (with this bullet, too, never
exiting his body, even though both the throat and back bullets do not
strike any hard objects in Kennedy's body at all). Go figure this oddity.
I can't.
And then Groden, via Mark Crouch's narration on the video, has Governor
Connally being hit by TWO additional bullets, with one of these missiles
striking JBC in the upper back and presumably exiting his chest (although
Groden/Crouch never really spell out what happened to this bullet). And
then, a little later in the Z-Film timeline, Connally gets hit in the
right wrist by yet another bullet.
Groden apparently feels a second Connally shot is required due to the fact
that JBC still has hit Stetson hat in his right hand many frames after
Groden says Connally was hit the first time (at Z224, which is a Z-Film
frame that Groden, somewhat amazingly, actually gets correct).
Groden, of course, is wrong when he says that Connally couldn't possibly
have held onto his hat after the radius bone in his wrist had been
fractured. We know Groden is 100% wrong about that, because Connally held
onto that hat (in his right hand) during the entire drive to the hospital.
Groden, although he doesn't say this during his "Case For Conspiracy"
program (via Crouch's narration), almost certainly thinks that ALL FOUR of
those bullets that entered the bodies of JFK and JBC completely
disappeared right after the shooting, because we know that Groden
certainly doesn't believe that the separate "wrist" bullet that he has
invented from whole cloth was CE399. 399, per Groden, was a fake bullet
all the way around.
And since we know that neither of Groden's make-believe JFK bullets in
this anti-SBT scenario could possibly be CE399 either (since neither JFK
or his stretcher was ever in the area of Parkland Hospital where Darrell
Tomlinson found the bullet), this must certainly mean that Groden believes
that all four of his mystery bullets miraculously vanished, with none of
those bullets entering the official record of this criminal case.*
* = Unless Groden wants to believe that his made-up "upper back-thru-
chest" Connally shot ended up in JBC's thigh and then turned out to be
stretcher bullet CE399.
So, what we have (per Bob Groden and other CTers as well) are FOUR
separate bullets going into two different victims. And then, in 1964,
those four bullets and seven wounds, incredibly, were turned into a very
nice-looking ONE-bullet scenario by the Warren Commission, via CE903:
But, as usual, such an amazing "SBT"-like coincidence existing in this
case doesn't seem to wrinkle Mr. Groden's brow one bit. He merely shrugs
off the remarkable SBT similarities within his ridiculous FOUR- bullet
substitute theory, all the while never bothering to ask himself these two
logical questions:
1.) How likely is it that multiple gunmen could have struck the TWO
victims on Elm Street with FOUR separate bullets in just such a way so
that the Warren Commission, on May 24, 1964, would be able to connect
those various bullet holes in order to FAKE A VERY NICE-LOOKING SINGLE-
BULLET EVENT?
2.) Since JFK suffered no major (bony) bullet damage in the upper-back and
throat regions of his body, how could TWO separate bullets just STOP
inside John Kennedy's upper back and throat without either one of these
missiles exiting the other side of his body?
www.Amazon.com/review/R3SW32NKVKITTR
Anthony Marsh
> On Sep 27, 1:13 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>> All SBT haters should be asking themselves this:
>>
>> If the SBT is completely impossible (as so many CTers firmly believe), how
>> in the world would the WC and the FBI even be able to FUDGE the "SBT"
>> results as seen in CE903 and have those results come anywhere close to
>> duplicating (at least fairly closely) the positioning of the victims in
>> the car AND the wound locations on the TWO victims?
>>
>> In other words, in any kind of a shooting scenario that a CTer could
>> hypothesize to replace the SBT, wasn't it absolutely remarkable (and
>> super-lucky) to have those two or three different gunmen hit the TWO
>> victims with their two or three or four bullets in almost exactly the
>> locations on the two mens' bodies so that on May 24, 1964, the WC and the
>> FBI could connect those various bullet holes and FUDGE A PRETTY DAMN
>> NICE-LOOKING SINGLE-BULLET EVENT?
>>
>> Why don't any of the conspiracy-loving kooks EVER ask themselves that
>> reasonable question?
>
> BECAUSE ITS RIDICULOUS. THERE WAS NO SBT UNTIL THE ZAPRUDER FILM TIMING
> PROBLEM SURFACED. SO THEY "CAME UP" WITH THIS ONE BULLET, SEVEN WOUNDS,
Well, there were hints of a SBT of some sort and Humes had his own SBT
in the middle of April. It was not until the end of April that Specter
finalized his suspicions into a SBT.
> MORE FRAGMENTS IN CONNALLY THAN ARE NOT MISSING FROM CE399, AND ITS JUST
> ONE MORE REASON TO BELIEVE, AS THE WARREN COMMISSION WAS CHARGED, BY LBJ,
> TO CLOSE DOORS AND NOT OPEN THEM AND THE FEAR OF 40 MILLION AMERICANS
> DEAD, CAUSING EARL WARREN TO CRY. EVEN THE MEMBERS OF THE WARREN
> COMMISSION DID NOT BELIEVE THE SBT. IT'S SO MUCH CLEANER TO HAVE ANOTHER
> RIFLEMAN HIT CONNALY, PROBABLY FROM THE WEST END OF THE SIXTH FLOOR, IF
> YOU ANALYZE THE ANGLES. JFK'S CLOTHES ALONE NEGAT THE SBT.
>
I tend to think so too, but can you consider one rifle firing both shots
from the sniper's nest?
> Burgundy
Robert Harris
<bf010e3d-ceb9-45cf...@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
> All SBT haters should be asking themselves this:
>
> If the SBT is completely impossible (as so many CTers firmly believe), how
> in the world would the WC and the FBI even be able to FUDGE the "SBT"
> results as seen in CE903 and have those results come anywhere close to
> duplicating (at least fairly closely) the positioning of the victims in
> the car AND the wound locations on the TWO victims?
That's a good question David, and as usual, I have the answer for you:-)
The SBT made perfect sense to the FBI, when they considered a realistic
trajectory angle. This photo illustrates that angle,
http://jfkhistory.com/pix/fbi.jpg
Of course, there is one little problem with that trajectory, and I think
we both know what it is:-)
Robert Harris
Anthony Marsh
>
>>>> "IT'S SO MUCH CLEANER TO HAVE ANOTHER RIFLEMAN HIT CONNALY [sic],
> PROBABLY FROM THE WEST END OF THE SIXTH FLOOR, IF YOU ANALYZE THE ANGLES."
> <<<
>
> And then the multiple bullets that pelted the bodies of John Kennedy and
> John Connally just disappeared into thin air, eh?
>
You're one to talk. You have a missed shot and missing fragments. Show me
the rest of the fragments from the bullet(s) which broken up and left two
large fragments in the front seat compartment. Show me the bullet which
the WC said missed.
> Allow me to once more ask the question that no conspiracy theorist has
> ever been able to reasonably and believably answer since 1963:
>
> WHERE DID THE BULLETS GO IF THE S.B.T. IS A PILE OF SHIT?
>
WHERE DID THE WC MISSED SHOT GO?????
> Related Note:
>
> I was recently re-watching Robert Groden's DVD, "JFK: The Case For
> Conspiracy", and I took note of Groden's absurd theory that has FOUR
> bullets replacing CE399 and the SBT.
>
OLD NEWS.
Easy when you consider how many times the official story changed.
Anthony Marsh
Yes, thank you. You just proved it with that diagram. The crosshairs are
not in the place where Myers says the bullet hit. And if a bullet went in
where the crosshairs meet it could not then exit Kennedy's throat and hit
Connally in the right armpit. It appears to be the ABC special outtake
which he will not admit and discuss how it is different from his other
diagrams.
BTW, we won't even tell you which frame that shows and why he has JFK's
right hand up in front of his throat blocking any exiting bullet from
hitting Connally. Myers screwed up when he created this view for ABC.