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Damn those ballpoint pens!!

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Robert Harris

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Dec 17, 2016, 11:21:15 PM12/17/16
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http://jfkhistory.com/ce842x.jpg

Jean Davison looked at this blowup from WC exhibit CE-842 and determined
that the cause of:

1. the faint, partially erased "FF" in the upper left

2. the "b-" (unintelligible) in the lower left area

3. the partially erased cartoon kitty face in the lower center

4. and a multitude of other character fragments

Are all caused by those damned ballpoint pens!!

Her exact words:

"Looks like normal ballpoint pen skips to me."

And then she looked that this high contrast scan that John Hunt made:

http://www.jfklancer.com/hunt/phantom_files/image004.jpg

She concluded that the heavy creases in the envelope were the product of
normal handling over the years.

Of course, normal "handling" would never have caused the deep creases we
see on this envelope, and Hunt scanned it after it had been laying flat in
the archives for over 40 years.

The creases are not straight, so they were not the result of it being
folded. They are the very clear result of this envelope having once been
wadded up and tossed into a waste basket.

This was not a fresh, unused envelope like Bell used to hold those tiny
wrist fragments. It was also, not initialed by Bell, something she had
done hundreds of times before, and as she testified that she did that day.
Only an inexperienced nurse would have forgotten to initial a foreign body
envelope - just as only an inexperienced nurse would wander out into the
hallway, asking who she should give her envelope to.

And of course, Bell also testified that she never gave her envelope to
Nolan or anyone else in uniform that day.

And the hard evidence of that battered, scribbled on and partially erased
envelope proves that it was not in pristine condition as it would have
been if Bell had processed it. Wade must have been angry that this nurse
had been carrying the most important evidence of his career, around in her
pocket all afternoon. He demanded that she get it to the police by
yesterday.

So she rummaged around in the wastebasket and found an envelope, flattened
it out as best she could and then hastily erased as much of the scribbling
as she could before dropping the bullet into it and giving it to the cop
she saw in the hallway.

ALL RELEVANT EVIDENCE supports the fact that Bell was not the nurse who
gave an envelope to Nolan. Nolan confirmed it, Wade confirmed it, Connally
confirmed it and Bell herself, confirmed it.

Pretending that all of those people suffered nearly identical delusions
is so spectacularly ridiculous that it's only worthy of a good laugh.




Robert Harris







Anthony Marsh

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Dec 18, 2016, 9:01:38 PM12/18/16
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On 12/17/2016 11:21 PM, Robert Harris wrote:
> http://jfkhistory.com/ce842x.jpg
>
> Jean Davison looked at this blowup from WC exhibit CE-842 and determined
> that the cause of:
>
> 1. the faint, partially erased "FF" in the upper left
>
> 2. the "b-" (unintelligible) in the lower left area
>
> 3. the partially erased cartoon kitty face in the lower center
>
> 4. and a multitude of other character fragments
>
> Are all caused by those damned ballpoint pens!!
>
> Her exact words:
>
> "Looks like normal ballpoint pen skips to me."
>
> And then she looked that this high contrast scan that John Hunt made:
>
> http://www.jfklancer.com/hunt/phantom_files/image004.jpg
>
> She concluded that the heavy creases in the envelope were the product of
> normal handling over the years.
>
> Of course, normal "handling" would never have caused the deep creases we
> see on this envelope, and Hunt scanned it after it had been laying flat
> in the archives for over 40 years.
>
> The creases are not straight, so they were not the result of it being
> folded. They are the very clear result of this envelope having once been
> wadded up and tossed into a waste basket.
>

All you ever do is guess.

> This was not a fresh, unused envelope like Bell used to hold those tiny
> wrist fragments. It was also, not initialed by Bell, something she had
> done hundreds of times before, and as she testified that she did that

Prove that she did.

bigdog

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Dec 19, 2016, 11:38:42 AM12/19/16
to
Bob with all the stretching you do, you might want to consider purchasing
a rack.

Robert Harris

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Dec 19, 2016, 9:11:28 PM12/19/16
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What exactly are you claiming I stretched, John?

Why are you NEVER specific about your accusations?

Instead of these endless, phony inferences, why don't you say
something of substance? Tell us for example, whether you
agree with Jean that these partially erased characters are
caused by a pen skipping?

C'mon John, you've said things that are a lot more ridiculous
than that! Tell everyone about those damn pens:-)




Robert Harris



Robert Harris

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Dec 19, 2016, 9:12:03 PM12/19/16
to
Robert Harris wrote:
> http://jfkhistory.com/ce842x.jpg
>
> Jean Davison looked at this blowup from WC exhibit CE-842 and
> determined that the cause of:
>
> 1. the faint, partially erased "FF" in the upper left
>
> 2. the "b-" (unintelligible) in the lower left area
>
> 3. the partially erased cartoon kitty face in the lower center
>
> 4. and a multitude of other character fragments
>
> Are all caused by those damned ballpoint pens!!
>
> Her exact words:
>
> "Looks like normal ballpoint pen skips to me."

Is Jean OK??

I'm sure she wants to defend this latest theory, and I'm sure
everyone is on the edges of their seats, waiting for her
response.

Where are you, Jean:-)


Robert Harris

BOZ

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Dec 20, 2016, 10:24:31 AM12/20/16
to
Stretching? I'll bet that Bob can't even touch his belly.

David Von Pein

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Dec 20, 2016, 6:12:12 PM12/20/16
to
As Bob Harris knows, there are two sets of initials that are upside down
when we view the picture of CE842 (Bobby Nolan's "BMN" initials and
Captain Will Fritz' "JWF" initials); see the 2010 discussion linked
below....

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.assassination.jfk/e5vQp8-7kUo/zf_gHoFdxr8J

And...FWIW....I said this in May of 2010:

[DVP Quote On:]

"I was going to postulate the notion that three of the oddball markings
that surround Captain Fritz' initials on CE842 were merely large "periods"
to punctuate each of his three initials (J.W.F.), because the location of
three of those marks are just about in the proper locations on the
envelope that would make such a suggestion a possibility, similar to the
rather large-sized periods that Bobby M. Nolan utilized when he initialed
the very same envelope (B.M.N.), which are bigger than just the pinpoint
type of periods that usually accompany a person's initials....but I doubt
I could convince any of the conspiracy-seeking individuals in this
Internet locality that those markings are, indeed, "periods". (But maybe
Captain Fritz was nervous that day when he initialed CE842, and all of his
punctuation mushroomed into lines, instead of dots for his periods.)
~grin~ [See the arrows in the photo below.]

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-A8NM-WXTNXc/WFjgxBB5xhI/AAAAAAABLOc/3I6us8NWfCEuq64_JBwIC8p7kMvwtCYAwCLcB/s1600/CE842-Upside-Down.jpg

Anyway, the fact obviously remains that J. Will Fritz positively did place
his initials (JWF) on Commission Exhibit No. 842.

If you want to discuss the logicality of some dumbbell at the DPD or FBI
(or wherever) deciding to ERASE someone else's initials on that envelope,
and having that dumbbell/idiot deciding to NOT ERASE ALL OF THE INITIALS
(when the goof certainly COULD have erased all of it), then I guess we
could take a few days to discuss that sub-topic.

However, instead of performing that type of humorous exercise, I'd rather
continue to verbally poke Robert Harris in the eye a few more times for
his willingness (even eagerness) to label additional unnamed members of
the Federal Bureau of Investigation as "liars" and evidence-tamperers with
regard to Warren Commission Exhibit No. 842.

This quote from the electronic lips of Robert Harris (culled from one of
his posts at The Education Forum on April 19, 2010), will stand forever as
a good example of the level of a conspiracy theorist's willingness to grab
at any straw he can invent, in order to smear the authorities who handled
the evidence connected with John F. Kennedy's assassination:

"The FBI...altered the evidence envelope that held the bullet and
forged the name of nurse Audrey Bell, to make it appear that the envelope
held the fragments from Connally's wrist, instead of the bullet from his
leg." -- Robert Harris; 04/19/2010"

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/15792-the-ce-399-scam/

[End Quote]

-- DVP; May 19, 2010

----------

Back to 2016 ---- Even though I can't prove that the six separate markings
that appear on CE842 following each of the six initials (JWF & BMN) are,
indeed, punctuation marks (periods), I do find it kind of interesting that
there are exactly SIX such marks located in precisely the areas following
the "JWF" and the "BMN" that would normally be areas where a person (if
they wanted to place periods after each of their initials) would write
such punctuation.

Funny coincidence, huh?

Bud

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Dec 20, 2016, 6:16:43 PM12/20/16
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On Monday, December 19, 2016 at 9:12:03 PM UTC-5, Robert Harris wrote:
Actually, she doesn`t have to do a thing. You can`t establish the
evidence is phony so you try to shift the burden onto other to prove it is
not. All your approaches are weak, which is why you can`t make compelling
and persuasive arguments.

Bud

unread,
Dec 20, 2016, 6:17:25 PM12/20/16
to
On Monday, December 19, 2016 at 9:12:03 PM UTC-5, Robert Harris wrote:
Perhaps she realized that talking to you is a waste of time.

>
> Robert Harris


Anthony Marsh

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Dec 20, 2016, 9:32:35 PM12/20/16
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Is that exactly what she said? Is she an expert?
Did they even have erasable pens back in 193?
Can she PROVE the writing was by pens? What brand?

> C'mon John, you've said things that are a lot more ridiculous than that!
> Tell everyone about those damn pens:-)
>

SHOW me the damn pens.

>
>
>
> Robert Harris
>
>
>


Robert Harris

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Dec 20, 2016, 9:35:06 PM12/20/16
to
You have violated the newsgroup charter.

5. Posters may not levy personal attacks against other posters. Ideas may
be vigorously discussed, but attacks on ideas should be phrased to make it
clear that the poster is not being attacked. Any post whose predominant
subject or theme is another poster rather than the assassination is likely
to be rejected.

It is pathetic that John McAdams who evades every important issue, has to
resort to approving violations of his own newsgroup charter in order to
attack me.


Robert Harris



Anthony Marsh

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Dec 21, 2016, 12:53:32 PM12/21/16
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In ink or pencil?

OHLeeRedux

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Dec 21, 2016, 9:23:33 PM12/21/16
to
> Robert Harris


You and Marsh whine more than my bitch dog.

Robert Harris

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Dec 21, 2016, 9:51:27 PM12/21/16
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Yes, this was the envelope that Nolan delivered to the DPD.

>
> If you want to discuss the logicality of some dumbbell at the DPD or FBI
> (or wherever) deciding to ERASE someone else's initials on that envelope,
> and having that dumbbell/idiot deciding to NOT ERASE ALL OF THE INITIALS
> (when the goof certainly COULD have erased all of it), then I guess we
> could take a few days to discuss that sub-topic.

We only need a few milliseconds to determine that erasing the
initials on an important piece of evidence is a felony
offense, known as "obstruction of justice".

And exactly WHO did you find, that had the initials, "ff"?

And a cartoon kitty face for initials?

http://jfkhistory.com/ce842x.jpg

>
> However, instead of performing that type of humorous exercise, I'd rather
> continue to verbally poke Robert Harris in the eye a few more times for
> his willingness (even eagerness) to label additional unnamed members of
> the Federal Bureau of Investigation as "liars" and evidence-tamperers with
> regard to Warren Commission Exhibit No. 842.
>
> This quote from the electronic lips of Robert Harris (culled from one of
> his posts at The Education Forum on April 19, 2010), will stand forever as
> a good example of the level of a conspiracy theorist's willingness to grab
> at any straw he can invent, in order to smear the authorities who handled
> the evidence connected with John F. Kennedy's assassination:
>
> "The FBI...altered the evidence envelope that held the bullet and
> forged the name of nurse Audrey Bell, to make it appear that the envelope
> held the fragments from Connally's wrist, instead of the bullet from his
> leg." -- Robert Harris; 04/19/2010"

Yes, and that is demonstrably correct, beyond all doubt.

Are you actually pretending that you have refuted my conclusion?

Let's start a new thread, just for the purpose of discussing
whether or not Bell's name was forged on that envelope. Would
you like to do that?

>
> http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/15792-the-ce-399-scam/
>
> [End Quote]
>
> -- DVP; May 19, 2010
>
> ----------
>
> Back to 2016 ---- Even though I can't prove that the six separate markings
> that appear on CE842 following each of the six initials (JWF & BMN) are,
> indeed, punctuation marks (periods), I do find it kind of interesting that
> there are exactly SIX such marks located in precisely the areas following
> the "JWF" and the "BMN" that would normally be areas where a person (if
> they wanted to place periods after each of their initials) would write
> such punctuation.

This is what sinks your boat David. But at least I have to
give you credit for dropping your idiotic "argument" that
none of those things even existed, because you couldn't see
them on Hunt's scan:-)

How many years did you continue to make that pitch?

http://jfkhistory.com/ce842x.jpg

CE-842 is NOT the envelope that Bell placed the wrist
fragments in. She would have used a fresh, pristine envelope,
NOT one that had been scribbled on and crumpled, as we can
easily see on Hunt's scan.

And it does not bear Bell's initials, which she swore under
oath, that she wrote on her envelope, as she had done
hundreds of times before.

And it was delivered to Nolan by an inexperienced nurse who
wandered out into the hallway, asking who she should give her
envelope to.

And Bell herself, flatly denied that she gave her envelope to
Nolan or anyone else in uniform.

And Wade saw her holding a whole bullet in her hand which she
said, came from Connally's stretcher.

And Nolan heard her say EXACTLY the same thing.

And John Connally saw her pick the bullet up and put it in
her pocked, after it FELL FROM HIS STRETCHER.

And then there is the little problem about those missing
initials on CE-399.

It is beyond insane that even the most radical of you nutters
would remain in denial about this.





Robert Harris

Robert Harris

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Dec 21, 2016, 10:16:53 PM12/21/16
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You have violated the newsgroup charter.

5. Posters may not levy personal attacks against other
posters. Ideas may be vigorously discussed, but attacks on
ideas should be phrased to make it clear that the poster is
not being attacked. Any post whose predominant subject or
theme is another poster rather than the assassination is
likely to be rejected.



Robert Harris

Robert Harris

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Dec 21, 2016, 10:17:24 PM12/21/16
to
Bud wrote:
> On Monday, December 19, 2016 at 9:12:03 PM UTC-5, Robert Harris wrote:
>> Robert Harris wrote:
>>> http://jfkhistory.com/ce842x.jpg
>>>
>>> Jean Davison looked at this blowup from WC exhibit CE-842 and
>>> determined that the cause of:
>>>
>>> 1. the faint, partially erased "FF" in the upper left
>>>
>>> 2. the "b-" (unintelligible) in the lower left area
>>>
>>> 3. the partially erased cartoon kitty face in the lower center
>>>
>>> 4. and a multitude of other character fragments
>>>
>>> Are all caused by those damned ballpoint pens!!
>>>
>>> Her exact words:
>>>
>>> "Looks like normal ballpoint pen skips to me."
>>
>> Is Jean OK??
>>
>> I'm sure she wants to defend this latest theory, and I'm sure
>> everyone is on the edges of their seats, waiting for her
>> response.
>
> Actually, she doesn`t have to do a thing.

Yes she does. She has to run like hell.

What else can you do when you post something that idiotic?

> You can`t establish the
> evidence is phony

What evidence?

ALL relevant evidence proves that Bell did not give her
fragments to Nolan... duh :-)

> so you try to shift the burden onto other to prove it is
> not.

Are you feeling OK, Bud?

Why would you think that I'm shifting the burden of proof, to
ask her to support her own statements:-)




Robert Harris

Bud

unread,
Dec 22, 2016, 4:43:02 PM12/22/16
to
On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 10:16:53 PM UTC-5, Robert Harris wrote:
> Bud wrote:
> > On Monday, December 19, 2016 at 9:12:03 PM UTC-5, Robert Harris wrote:
> >> Robert Harris wrote:
> >>> http://jfkhistory.com/ce842x.jpg
> >>>
> >>> Jean Davison looked at this blowup from WC exhibit CE-842 and
> >>> determined that the cause of:
> >>>
> >>> 1. the faint, partially erased "FF" in the upper left
> >>>
> >>> 2. the "b-" (unintelligible) in the lower left area
> >>>
> >>> 3. the partially erased cartoon kitty face in the lower center
> >>>
> >>> 4. and a multitude of other character fragments
> >>>
> >>> Are all caused by those damned ballpoint pens!!
> >>>
> >>> Her exact words:
> >>>
> >>> "Looks like normal ballpoint pen skips to me."
> >>
> >> Is Jean OK??
> >>
> >> I'm sure she wants to defend this latest theory, and I'm sure
> >> everyone is on the edges of their seats, waiting for her
> >> response.
> >>
> >> Where are you, Jean:-)
> >
> > Perhaps she realized that talking to you is a waste of time.
>
> You have violated the newsgroup charter.
>
> 5. Posters may not levy personal attacks against other
> posters.

Pointing out that it is a waste of time to talk to you is not a personal
attack, it is an accurate assessment of the situation.

Bud

unread,
Dec 22, 2016, 4:46:25 PM12/22/16
to
On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 10:17:24 PM UTC-5, Robert Harris wrote:
> Bud wrote:
> > On Monday, December 19, 2016 at 9:12:03 PM UTC-5, Robert Harris wrote:
> >> Robert Harris wrote:
> >>> http://jfkhistory.com/ce842x.jpg
> >>>
> >>> Jean Davison looked at this blowup from WC exhibit CE-842 and
> >>> determined that the cause of:
> >>>
> >>> 1. the faint, partially erased "FF" in the upper left
> >>>
> >>> 2. the "b-" (unintelligible) in the lower left area
> >>>
> >>> 3. the partially erased cartoon kitty face in the lower center
> >>>
> >>> 4. and a multitude of other character fragments
> >>>
> >>> Are all caused by those damned ballpoint pens!!
> >>>
> >>> Her exact words:
> >>>
> >>> "Looks like normal ballpoint pen skips to me."
> >>
> >> Is Jean OK??
> >>
> >> I'm sure she wants to defend this latest theory, and I'm sure
> >> everyone is on the edges of their seats, waiting for her
> >> response.
> >
> > Actually, she doesn`t have to do a thing.
>
> Yes she does. She has to run like hell.

She should never have engaged you in the fist place, you are a total
waste of time. You were good enough to remind her of that.

> What else can you do when you post something that idiotic?

What, that ballpoint pens skip?

> > You can`t establish the
> > evidence is phony
>
> What evidence?

The evidence you say is phony.

> ALL relevant evidence proves that Bell did not give her
> fragments to Nolan... duh :-)
>
> > so you try to shift the burden onto other to prove it is
> > not.
>
> Are you feeling OK, Bud?
>
> Why would you think that I'm shifting the burden of proof, to
> ask her to support her own statements:-)

What is there to support? She sees the skips in the writing as normal
ball point pens skips. Are you saying she doesn`t see the skips that way?

Whether they are or not adds no legitimacy to your ideas. This is
another reason you are a waste of time, you want to nit-pick what others
say when it is really up to you to establish your ideas as correct. You
call certain marks erasures, lets see you establish that is what they are.
Not strongly assert, establish.



>
>
>
> Robert Harris


Anthony Marsh

unread,
Dec 22, 2016, 4:46:51 PM12/22/16
to
What century are you living in? You don't make the rules here any more.

>
>
> Robert Harris


John McAdams

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Dec 22, 2016, 4:55:22 PM12/22/16
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On 21 Dec 2016 22:16:52 -0500, Robert Harris <bobha...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Bud wrote:
>> On Monday, December 19, 2016 at 9:12:03 PM UTC-5, Robert Harris wrote:
>>> Robert Harris wrote:
>>>> http://jfkhistory.com/ce842x.jpg
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm sure she wants to defend this latest theory, and I'm sure
>>> everyone is on the edges of their seats, waiting for her
>>> response.
>>>
>>> Where are you, Jean:-)
>>
>> Perhaps she realized that talking to you is a waste of time.
>
>You have violated the newsgroup charter.
>
>5. Posters may not levy personal attacks against other
>posters. Ideas may be vigorously discussed, but attacks on
>ideas should be phrased to make it clear that the poster is
>not being attacked. Any post whose predominant subject or
>theme is another poster rather than the assassination is
>likely to be rejected.
>

The problem, Bob, is that you make it all about people on the
newsgroup, constantly claiming that people haven't responded to you
(when they have) and implying they are evasive or even dishonest if
they don't give you the response you want.

And nothing less than agreeing with you is acceptable to you.

So I have trouble rejecting posts that make an issue of your behavior.
If you just stuck to debating the issues, that would help.

.John
-------------------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Jason Burke

unread,
Dec 22, 2016, 10:22:54 PM12/22/16
to
A "duh" *and* a smiley.

Gee Bob I guess, we should all take anything that comes out, of your
piehole, seriously.

Well, if you were nine...

Jason Burke

unread,
Dec 22, 2016, 10:23:08 PM12/22/16
to
Go to your d*mn Safe Space (tm), Harris and have a good cry.


David Von Pein

unread,
Dec 22, 2016, 10:28:05 PM12/22/16
to
Please point to the post where I said that the pen/pencil scratch marks
didn't even exist? No such post exists in any JFK archive.

Jason Burke

unread,
Dec 23, 2016, 11:01:01 PM12/23/16
to
Don't bother Harris with reality.
He's never going to get it.

Anthony Marsh

unread,
Dec 23, 2016, 11:56:02 PM12/23/16
to
Cruel and inhuman.

> .John
> -------------------------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
>


Anthony Marsh

unread,
Dec 23, 2016, 11:56:35 PM12/23/16
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What, that you can erase the ink?
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