David Lifton Obsession - Labyrinth Without End

[claviger]

His J.F.K. Obsession : For David Lifton, the Assassination Is a Labyrinth
Without End November 20, 1988 Lee Green

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-11-20/magazine/tm-206_1_david-lifton
http://articles.latimes.com/1988-11-20/magazine/tm-206_1_david-lifton/2
http://articles.latimes.com/1988-11-20/magazine/tm-206_1_david-lifton/3
http://articles.latimes.com/1988-11-20/magazine/tm-206_1_david-lifton/4

[mainframetech]

Fortunately, we have the result of Lifton's thinking and research. He
was the first to delve into the murder and find out some interesting
things. He was wrong about a few things, but right about others. And
there was some proofs missing from some of his speculation. However, When
Douglas Horne got into it, the proofs came out and Lifton's work became a
shining star.

Chris

[David Von Pein]

CHRIS / FRAME SAID:

Fortunately, we have the result of Lifton's thinking and research.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

If you take out the word "fortunately" in Chris' above comment, I would
agree.

But a lot of Lifton's "thinking" is just flat-out laughable (and
bizarre)....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/07/david-von-pein-vs-david-lifton.html

[bigdog]

More like a shiny turd which Horne had polished.

[mainframetech]

Here's the record of reader's comments:

https://www.amazon.com/Inside-Assassination-Records-Review-Board/dp/0984314407/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472989462&sr=8-1&keywords=inside+the+arrb

Chris

[mainframetech]

Though proven true.

Come argue the phony autopsy with me, and the clandestine 'work' done on
the head of JFK (witnessed) At the first arrival at Bethesda.

Chris

[David Von Pein]

Beautiful! Chris/Frame is now going to pretend that there was a WITNESS to
the "clandestine work done on the head of JFK".

Tell us the name of that witness (or witnesses), Mr. Frame.

[bigdog]

So what's your point? That there are other people in this world gullible
enough to buy into the crap Lifton and Horne are peddling. That's hardly a
surprise. According to P.T. Barnum, there's one born every minute.

[stevemg...@yahoo.com]

This reminds me of Whitley Strieber who has made a pretty decent living
selling books about alien abductions. He says he himself was once
abducted. And he's had sporadic contact with "them" since then. (It's
always a "them" and a "they" isn't it?)

Yes, real aliens; as in non-humans.

Trump has the monopoly on the other alien abduction theory.

Man, people just want to believe. There's almost a need to.

[Anthony Marsh]

Exactly. There are a lot or people gullible enough to believe the WC.
All 50 of them.

[mainframetech]

What happened was that YOU bought into the crap handed out by the
government, and have then blasted anyone that disagrees with you. With
me, you have failed however. Proof is something you've failed to cover
up.

Lifton and particularly Horne have produced files and articles that far
outweigh anything YOU could provide. They've proven their points, and I
know it because I've gone through most of their points and found that the
proofs are there. You, on the other hand, have not. So not having any
plausible reason to insult the serious work done by Lifton and Horne, have
gone on nothing but opinion, which means nothing here.

Chris

[mainframetech]

DVP, try not to be too foolish, it will only embarrass you later.

The witnesses were Edward Reed, Bethesda X-ray Technician and Tom
Robinson, mortician for Gawler's Funeral Home.

Reed was one of a group of men selected to bring in the SHIPPING casket
with the body of JFK in it. He was also one of the men that saw the body
of JFK coming out of that SHIPPING casket. His information was in sworn
testimony to the ARRB. He sat in the gallery at 6:35pm when the body
arrived, and watched Humes and Boswell perform clandestine 'work' on the
body, then then try to cover it up later when the real autopsy began at
8:00pm.

Tom Robinson arrived early at the morgue was given a seat in the
gallery with Reed to watch the clandestine 'work'. At one point Reed was
kicked out, but he had seen enough to know what was going on.

Here's some of Reed's testimony:

"Q: What was the first incision?
A: The cranium.The scalp, right here.
Q: And can you describe how that procedure -
A: Commander Humes made an incision. After
we brought all the X-rays back, we were all allowed
to sit up in the podium and observe.
And Commander Humes made an incision -
that I could see from my vantage point - an
incision in the forehead, and brought back the
scalp.
Q: Okay.
A: Like this.
Q: And you were making a line first across
the top of your forehead. roughly along the
hairline -
A: With a scalpel.
Q: - and then pulling the scalp back.
A: That’s correct. Just like this.
Q: What else did you observe from where you
were with regard to any incisions or operations on
the head?
A: Well, after about 20 minutes, Commander
Humes took out a saw, and started to cut the
forehead with the bone - with the saw. Mechanical
saw. Circular, small, mechanical
almost like a cast saw, but it’s made -
Q: Sure.
A: - specifically for bone."

Page 58
http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/medical_testimony/pdf/Reed_10-21-97.pdf


Reed had a seat in the gallery, which proves that this was BEFORE the
scheduled autopsy at 8:00pm, when there would be all admirals and generals
and big wigs in that gallery. At 6:35pm there was only Bethesda
personnel.

Here's Tom Robinson's statements:

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/md63/html/Image10.htm

Page 11.

Robinson thought that the autopsy had begun early because they removed
the brain while he was there, but they also put it back, then at the real
autopsy pretended that the brain was taken out THEN. Humes, to cover up,
said that "The brain fell out into his hands" like it surprised him, but
from testimony we know that he had removed it himself earlier. When the
brain falls out into the hands, it's because the spinal cord had been
previously cut and the optic nerves, and some of the arteries all had to
be cut previously, or the brain would never fall out. That had to be
covered up as if he was surprised that someone else had done it.

Chris

[Anthony Marsh]

More cheap shots. He did already. We don't have to believe him.

[bigdog]

Anyone who disagrees with me about this case is just plain wrong. They
make easy targets.

> With me, you have failed however.

There was never a chance of success. There was never any chance I could
teach you the truth.

> Proof is something you've failed to cover up.
>

Never even tried.

> Lifton and particularly Horne have produced files and articles that far
> outweigh anything YOU could provide.

Not surprising you would think so. They are full of the same kind of
assumptions you are so fond of.

> They've proven their points, and I
> know it because I've gone through most of their points and found that the
> proofs are there.

There's a ringing endorsement. <chuckle>

> You, on the other hand, have not. So not having any
> plausible reason to insult the serious work done by Lifton and Horne, have
> gone on nothing but opinion, which means nothing here.
>

The fact that you take Lifton and Horne seriously speaks volumes.

[Mark OBLAZNEY]

What's the matter with Mr. Lipton…… too much pekoe?

[Anthony Marsh]

Yes, because they didn't tell him their names. Was one of them Paul?

> Yes, real aliens; as in non-humans.
>

They don't ALL have to be non-humans. some could be humans.
Don't be a Speciesist.

> Trump has the monopoly on the other alien abduction theory.
>

You mean Obama's Birth Certificate?

[David Von Pein]

Reed isn't describing "clandestine work" in that ARRB testimony. He's
describing the work that was done at the ONE AND ONLY autopsy which began
at about 8:00 PM. In fact, when comparing Reed's testimony with Dr. Humes'
ARRB testimony, they corroborate each other perfectly. Humes said his
FIRST INCISION was the skull incision he made with a saw. That's just
exactly what Reed said he witnessed. Nothing inconsistent about it
whatsoever.

Humes said this in his ARRB testimony (which Chris/Frame will undoubtedly
completely ignore, or deem as a flagrant lie being told by Dr. Humes):

DR. HUMES -- "We had to make an incision to remove the brain."

[...]

QUESTION -- "Where was the first incision made?"

DR. HUMES -- "I believe, of course, the top of the skull to remove the
skull plate of the brain. To remove what remained of the calvarium and to
approach the removal of the brain."

QUESTION -- "And was that incision simply of the scalp, or did you need to
cut--?"

DR. HUMES -- "No, we had to cut some bone as well."

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/01/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-525.html

[mainframetech]

So you won't deny that you're all opinion and nothing else of
consequence. That's all that we see above, opinion. When will you ever
try evidence and prove a point, any point?

Chris

[stevemg...@yahoo.com]

No, the aliens are coming here and abducting our jobs, our country, our
bodies.

Well, two of the three.

[mainframetech]

Wow! You missed it all! Didn't you notice that Edward Reed was seated
in the gallery where all the big admirals and generals would be sitting
when the real autopsy began at 8:00pm? This was at 6:35pm that Reed was
helping them bring in the Shipping casket. He could not possibly be
allowed to sit in the gallery where the admirals would be when 8:00pm
rolled around. And you also missed where Humes tried to cover up that the
brain had been removed earlier, when there wasn't supposed to ne any work
done until the autopsy.

If necessary, I can bring in the Dennis David testimony, which occurred
at 6:35pm to show that the body was brought into the morgue at that early
time, and then Reed was allowed to sit in the gallery because none of the
onlookers were there yet.

> Humes said this in his ARRB testimony (which Chris/Frame will undoubtedly
> completely ignore, or deem as a flagrant lie being told by Dr. Humes):
>
> DR. HUMES -- "We had to make an incision to remove the brain."
>

Humes did the brain removal early in the evening at the clandestine
'work' period just after 6:35pm. That is solid and proven by the Roger
Boyajian after action report. Humes did the removal so they could check
for bullets that may have been left in the body by a shooter other than
the TSBD shooter. And true, he did have to make an incision to remove the
brain, because the large hole in the BOH wasn't large enough to take the
brain out. But the scalpel and saw cutting was done early in the evening,
not when all the gallery was full at 8:00pm.

> [...]
>
> QUESTION -- "Where was the first incision made?"
>
> DR. HUMES -- "I believe, of course, the top of the skull to remove the
> skull plate of the brain. To remove what remained of the calvarium and to
> approach the removal of the brain."
>
> QUESTION -- "And was that incision simply of the scalp, or did you need to
> cut--?"
>
> DR. HUMES -- "No, we had to cut some bone as well."
>
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/01/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-525.html

Absolutely true, as far as it goes. Humes was lying as to the time,
but not as to the operations he had to go through to get the brain out
just after 6:35pm. He did the removal at 6:35pm as per the proof
above.

Chris

[bigdog]

Damn it, now I'm going to stay awake tonight trying to figure out which
two.

[David Von Pein]

You must be out of your head to believe such cloak-&-dagger claptrap.

You think the plotters would have allowed Reed (and others) to just sit up
in the gallery and watch the "clandestine work" being done? Hilarious.

[bigdog]

On Thursday, September 8, 2016 at 9:23:36 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:

>
> You must be out of your head to believe such cloak-&-dagger claptrap.
>
> You think the plotters would have allowed Reed (and others) to just sit up
> in the gallery and watch the "clandestine work" being done? Hilarious.

Whatever Chris needs to believe to make his theories seem plausible to
him, he will believe. The funny part is he expects the rest of us to
believe him.

[mainframetech]

So you come up with insults and no proofs of anything to oppose what
I've told you from the official record, yet it's been proved to you
through Sworn testimony. Both Edward Reed and another man from the X-ray
dept. were kicked out at one point in the clandestine 'work' on the head
before they went further. It may be that they didn't realize until then
that they were there seeing everything that was going on.

> You think the plotters would have allowed Reed (and others) to just sit up
> in the gallery and watch the "clandestine work" being done? Hilarious.

Well, prove something instead of laughing. Laughter proves nothing but
possibly nervousness. I've shown you the proof that you complained about,
and it's from the official record. You argued that it was the regular
scheduled autopsy. So I proved it was not. Now it's back to you, and all
you've got is calling the official record "clap-trap".

Let me know if you have anything better and I'll be glad to look it
over. I'll be around.

Chris

[stevemg...@yahoo.com]

You know how it goes, Dave. The plotters were alternatively brilliant and
incompetent depending on what the conspiracy line du jour needs them to
be.

The JFK assassination is like a giant conspiracy cafeteria for these
people.

They take something over there, something here, a bit over there, some of
this and some of that.

Cafeteria conspiracists (taken from the cafeteria Catholics observation).

[Anthony Marsh]

That's too obscure a reference, you ponce.