5:15
Karla
The sun plays placeholder in November,
wool sweater buttoned round the shoulders,
reading lamp behind the eyes,
and leftover gray clouds tinged pink.
It was a serious attempt to linger
among New Fiction and tables of $15 paperbacks,
to jostle the hand reaching for Grisham.
Why so many hands reaching for that hack?
Upstairs, West Coast jazz made a serious attempt
at a riff but the fondling of DVD's and Christmas cards
muffled what is not yet inhered. The serious attempt
to linger lacked Sulamith Wulfing cards of German angels sleeping.
Lacked separate sheets of 67-pound paper and
hand bound leather diaries to lose a finger in its teeth.
To lose is to linger but I must leave.
Slow down, breathe before bolting between Harry Potter boys,
flat and thin, to the stairs, to the rescue of
Self-Help and Poetry. And the bookstore's serious attempt
to keep us drinking coffee over art books. Face it.
You're no Crow's Nest of long-haired boys and girls
wrapped in patchouli and Indian bedspreads--
a lifetime to linger over revolution,
By the time I park the car and climb the stairs,
the gray-haired ladies have gone taking their valentines
up in smoke. I weave the cat between halting steps
reaching for a lamp. My serious attempt to linger
continues though they've changed the time. The times
they are changing. We must make our own light and
pull the magic from the bag. Here is the A.S. Byatt.
Karla
r j thurman
kar...@sbcglobal.net wrote
in article news:<dlb5s...@drn.newsguy.com>:
Initial impressions on first read:
This is overwrought and unctuous. It plods stickily like a Thai ox-
cart in spring mud. The few attempted images are limp and threadbare.
The piece is obviously targeted at a self-anointed pseudo-'literati'
crowd -- but the self-conscious name-dropping, the references to
physical aspects of paperish wares, and the implications of a past
"revolutionary" decade all fall dull, disjointed and disingenuous upon
the eye and ear.
Lines such as "We must make our own light and pull the magic from the
bag" and "To lose is to linger..." are, at best, rather unpoetic.
Ditto the recurring phrase "serious attempt."
You've done much better in the past. This one, as it currently stands,
doesn't make it.
The bookstore scenario is workable if lightened up somewhat, and
approached in a less pretentious manner.
Try again.
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Mikel
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:16:44 -0900, Karla wrote
(in article <dlb5s...@drn.newsguy.com>):
> 5:15
>
> The sun plays placeholder in November,
> wool sweater buttoned round the shoulders,
> reading lamp behind the eyes,
> and leftover gray clouds tinged pink.
On the first read I didn't see any relationship between the first and second
half of this stanza. It's probably just me and a recent tendency to lazy
reading habits, but perhaps it could be smoother here.
> It was a serious attempt to linger
> among New Fiction and tables of $15 paperbacks,
> to jostle the hand reaching for Grisham.
> Why so many hands reaching for that hack?
>
> Upstairs, West Coast jazz made a serious attempt
> at a riff but the fondling of DVD's and Christmas cards
> muffled what is not yet inhered. The serious attempt
I learned a new word today 'inhered.' Thanks.
> to linger lacked Sulamith Wulfing cards of German angels sleeping.
> Lacked separate sheets of 67-pound paper and
> hand bound leather diaries to lose a finger in its teeth.
> To lose is to linger but I must leave.
>
> Slow down, breathe before bolting between Harry Potter boys,
> flat and thin, to the stairs, to the rescue of
> Self-Help and Poetry. And the bookstore's serious attempt
> to keep us drinking coffee over art books. Face it.
> You're no Crow's Nest of long-haired boys and girls
> wrapped in patchouli and Indian bedspreads--
> a lifetime to linger over revolution,
>
> By the time I park the car and climb the stairs,
> the gray-haired ladies have gone taking their valentines
a comma after gone?
> up in smoke. I weave the cat between halting steps
> reaching for a lamp. My serious attempt to linger
> continues though they've changed the time. The times
> they are changing. We must make our own light and
Shouldn't that be 'a-changing'?
> pull the magic from the bag. Here is the A.S. Byatt.
>
> Karla
>
Thanks. A good read.
Mikel
Stuart Leichter
rj...@birthlink.net wrote on 11/14/05 9:25 PM:
Bosley Fucking Crowther.
And you didn't even call her Kar.
Stuart Leichter
on 11/14/05 6:16 PM:
Julie posted a bookstory poem for your 2005 NPM. Angel posted several, years
ago, and I think I posted one. It's a great subgenre, probably ranking
second only to fucking, as Henry Miller would say (about everything).
Bosley Fucking Crowther aka the Schmuckhole sent out his first-edition
impressions of 5:15 (btw, tx for the nod). He should disqualify himself from
commenting on writing or kill himself.
Like him (gaaaaaag!), I noticed a surplus of everything, but I didn't read
it as flawed writing.
Those stores are bloat fomenters and bloated with their own aura of bloated
pop knowledge. They are video arcades in their way. I like them, but not
because of book culture. I like malls too.
I didn't read 5:15 as 'a poem'. November loses more light than any other
month in our hemisphere. And so on.
An old, yellowing, and dog-eared kind of bookseller, with a spiral staircase
(like City Books on the South Side), would get a different poem, also
appropriate to its worth and esteem.
I looked up Byatt. I'm not much of a reader, not like you.
Did you know the name, 'B. Dalton', was created by a computer analysis?
Walden Books began losing sales after Lyme Disease and West Nile Virus got
famous.
Independent, privately-owned, little bookstores get their books from the
same warehouse as the chains, but you can walk to them.
Before Internet and Amazon:
A book I wanted was just published, but no one had it or could get it.
"You'll have to get it from the publisher". Everyone was using the same
microfiche. Okay, fine. Time to beg. A friendly acquaintence, Diane, was the
manager at B. Dalton's. Diane used BIP and said she would order it. In
fairness, I also ordered 2 other books. A call came from the store that my
book order was in. I bought a mohair scarf shawl for Diane. She wasn't at
the store when I went, I left the gift and a note for her, and she was
almost fired because I wasn't sneaky.
Goethe called for more light also, but it was the last thing he did.
--
Stuart
r j thurman
Stu Leichter <leic...@bellsouth.net> wrote
in article news:<BF9EBB73.41754%leic...@bellsouth.net>:
> Karla at kar...@sbcglobal.net wrote on 11/14/05 6:16 PM:
>
> Julie posted a bookstory poem for your 2005 NPM. Angel posted
> several, years ago, and I think I posted one. It's a great subgenre,
> probably ranking second only to fucking, as Henry Miller would say
> (about everything).
>
> Bosley Fucking Crowther aka the Schmuckhole sent out his
> first-edition impressions of 5:15 (btw, tx for the nod). He should
> disqualify himself from commenting on writing or kill himself.
>
> Like him (gaaaaaag!), I noticed a surplus of everything...
>
> < snip >
How flattering, St00, that you somehow managed to work me into
your putative "review" of Karla's poem.
Do you dream about me at night, as well?
By the way, great "review" there, son. Amazing how even Karla's
poem turned out to be all about YOU, huh. Heh. Silly putz.
r j thurman
> r j thurman wrote:
> > ox-cart in spring mud. The few attempted images are limp and
> > threadbare. The piece is obviously targeted at a self-anointed
> > pseudo-'literati' crowd -- but the self-conscious name-dropping,
> > the references to physical aspects of paperish wares, and the
> > implications of a past "revolutionary" decade all fall dull,
> > disjointed and disingenuous upon the eye and ear.
> >
> > Lines such as "We must make our own light and pull the magic from
> > the bag" and "To lose is to linger..." are, at best, rather
> > unpoetic. Ditto the recurring phrase "serious attempt."
> >
> > You've done much better in the past. This one, as it currently
> > stands, doesn't make it.
> >
> > The bookstore scenario is workable if lightened up somewhat, and
> > approached in a less pretentious manner.
> >
> > Try again.
>
> Bosley Fucking Crowther.
>
> And you didn't even call her Kar.
Your trolling has become quite tedious of late, St00bie.
Wassamatta...did The Golf Channel go off the air?
Dennis M. Hammes
Set back the clock and then put out the light,
The extra hour is worthy of our sight.
Feh. That wants to be a villanelle...
It also wants a better second line.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
If a pome falls in the middle of a library and
the Bishop can't read it, does it still say, "Iamb"?
http://scrawlmark.org
Central CPU
"Karla" <kar...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
I was writing a story on college textbooks for the student newspaper at
Virginia Commonwealth University. There are three "main" bookstores each
with its own distinctive character most students will find they must use as
various professors prefer different ones. There is no one-stop-shop. As I
was writing the story the "Carriage House" bookstore was making more fuss
than seemed necessary to me and finally in frustration I emailed them a
sarcastic, "these things must be done delicately or you will hurt the
spell." It was a cheap trick of a joke, but we enjoyed it for a week.
Central CPU
centr...@onaypamsay.att.net
Saving you money on the things you don't buy
Leisha
to, self-absorbed, heavy, but only because you put yourself in the
store a bit too much. Maybe a little distance would help, using a
different point of view, describing someone or various scenes in the
store to remove the weighty stroke of "I"?
"Serious attempt" does not bother me at first, but then the repetition
doesn't help the poem, I think. Initially the piece lost its rhythm for
me at "Why so many hands reaching for this hack?" Too opinionated, too
direct, it creates a distraction.
I like the repeat of the word "lack" seguing into artful alliteration
for the rest of the stanza. At least for its sound, that part is worth
keeping. I feel like I'm being placed onto familiar reference
points--Harry Potter, Self-Help, Poetry--that are appropriate & timely
for the atmosphere, and I like the long-haired boys & girls and the
gray-haired ladies you show. More such details would help, as rj
suggests. And maybe appeal to me more with the other senses, as in the
smell of the coffee, the musty old books, or even a show of emotion by
a patron instead of a flat portrait? That would put me there more, I
think, build the place up around me as we go.
I agree with rj that straightforward statements like "The times they
are changing/ We must make our own light, " etc. are not poetic. Drop
them, figure out what you are really trying to say & slip it in
poetically, but please don't leave them standing there naked as you
have, especially at the very end where they shout "Here I am! The moral
of the story."
Hope this helps.
Leisha
Arlon Staywell
"Central CPU" <centr...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
> "Karla" <kar...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
There's a ".wav" file on my computer such that "windows" "exclamation"
causes it to say, "These things must be done delicately or you'll hurt the
spell." Now I know whence.
Pardon my earlier discussion of "whither." I learned that many of your
dictionaries have misleading definitions like "_to_ whatever place" that
might be clearer "to _whatever_ place."
I believe "whither" is an inexact form of "where." This seems to fit
most definitions hither and yon. And thither. This isn't funny is it?
Arlon Staywell
arlon.staywell@onaypamsay
Dennis M. Hammes
>
> I believe "whither" is an inexact form of "where." This seems to fit
> most definitions hither and yon. And thither. This isn't funny is it?
>
>
> Arlon Staywell
> arlon.staywell@onaypamsay
>
"Where" is an "inexact," sp. a contracted, elided, and relaxed, form
of the older "whither," not to be confused with "wither," which
persists as itself.
"Whither" --> "whi'er" --> "wh'er" --> "where."
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Stuart Leichter" <leic...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:BF9EBB73.41754%leic...@bellsouth.net...
> in article 1132021...@spool6-east.superfeed.net, r j thurman at
> rj...@birthlink.net wrote on 11/14/05 9:25 PM:
>
>>
>
> Bosley Fucking Crowther.
>
> And you didn't even call her Kar.
I didn't even call her a fat ignorant bitch.
Not at all.
--
http://Clitin.Com *The Pussy Poetry Palace*
*** MORE THAN 150 meg FREE Usenet PORNetry ***
(in > 80 "hands free" slideshows)
with poetry from famous poets (soon)
Karla
I appreciate you reading this in spite of your motives for commenting as well
as your lack of confidence to comment without a sock.
>This is overwrought and unctuous.
I've thought about this comment as it applies to my draft. I'm not yet
convinced that it's directed at my draft. The comment is unsupported and
taken in context with the rest of your comments seems directed at "them".
>It plods stickily like a Thai ox-
>cart in spring mud.
Are you able to conceive of the notion that I intended that?
>The few attempted images are limp and threadbare.
Your comments are beginning to remind me of the Dockery's "reviews" where
statements are made which appear to have some understanding of poetry and
poetry criticism but lack the specificity needed to actually assist the
writer. It's the type of comment to which I refer initially.
>The piece is obviously targeted at a self-anointed pseudo-'literati'
>crowd -- but the self-conscious name-dropping, the references to
>physical aspects of paperish wares, and the implications of a past
>"revolutionary" decade all fall dull, disjointed and disingenuous upon
>the eye and ear.
Again you betray an inability to distinguish between the speaker and the
writer. I think you need to work harder to disguise your contempt for the
writer and those you associate with the writer ("them").
>Lines such as "We must make our own light and pull the magic from the
>bag" and "To lose is to linger..." are, at best, rather unpoetic.
It's amusing when someone spawns a comment that words, lines or stanzas are
unpoetic. But helpful too in helping this writer assess the commenter's grasp
of poetics. For the fun of it, explain what is faulty in the assonance of
"lose...linger"?
>Ditto the recurring phrase "serious attempt."
Ditto my previous comment. Why do you think I chose to repeat "serious
attempt"? Without sinning by explaining it all myself, let me state that I
repeated it consciously. I also gave attention to the title, the month, the
present, the past and the references to authors and artists, stationery. I
mention this because it's difficult to assess your grasp of my intention and
I'd hate to write off your comments as only bashing "them".
>You've done much better in the past. This one, as it currently stands,
>doesn't make it.
>
>The bookstore scenario is workable if lightened up somewhat, and
>approached in a less pretentious manner.
It might be that you're uncomfortable with speaker or the speaker's
point-of-view. I tend to think that you're writing outside of the draft
though.
>Try again.
Even if I didn't want to, I probably would.
Once again, I appreciate your commenting whatever your motives are.
Karla
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--------------------------------------
"I stand between two worlds. I am at home in neither,
and I suffer in consequence...As I write the sea
whispers to me and I close my eyes. I am looking into
a world unborn and formless that needs to be ordered
and shaped; I see into a whir of shadows of human
figures who beckon to me to weave spells to redeem
them: tragic and laughable figures and some that
are both together--and to these I am drawn."
from Tonio Kroger
by Thomas Mann
Karla
>Loved this. Minor quibbles only.
>
>On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:16:44 -0900, Karla wrote
>(in article <dlb5s...@drn.newsguy.com>):
>
>> 5:15
>>
>> The sun plays placeholder in November,
>> wool sweater buttoned round the shoulders,
>> reading lamp behind the eyes,
>> and leftover gray clouds tinged pink.
>
>On the first read I didn't see any relationship between the first and second
>half of this stanza. It's probably just me and a recent tendency to lazy
>reading habits, but perhaps it could be smoother here.
Good point. It does need a transition.
>> It was a serious attempt to linger
>> among New Fiction and tables of $15 paperbacks,
>> to jostle the hand reaching for Grisham.
>> Why so many hands reaching for that hack?
>>
>> Upstairs, West Coast jazz made a serious attempt
>> at a riff but the fondling of DVD's and Christmas cards
>> muffled what is not yet inhered. The serious attempt
>
>I learned a new word today 'inhered.' Thanks.
I questioned Stuart's use of it last week (or the week before). It's a fun
little verb.
>> to linger lacked Sulamith Wulfing cards of German angels sleeping.
>> Lacked separate sheets of 67-pound paper and
>> hand bound leather diaries to lose a finger in its teeth.
>> To lose is to linger but I must leave.
>>
>> Slow down, breathe before bolting between Harry Potter boys,
>> flat and thin, to the stairs, to the rescue of
>> Self-Help and Poetry. And the bookstore's serious attempt
>> to keep us drinking coffee over art books. Face it.
>> You're no Crow's Nest of long-haired boys and girls
>> wrapped in patchouli and Indian bedspreads--
>> a lifetime to linger over revolution,
>>
>> By the time I park the car and climb the stairs,
>> the gray-haired ladies have gone taking their valentines
>
>a comma after gone?
>
>> up in smoke. I weave the cat between halting steps
>> reaching for a lamp. My serious attempt to linger
>> continues though they've changed the time. The times
>> they are changing. We must make our own light and
>
>Shouldn't that be 'a-changing'?
hehe I looked it up - Dylan wrote "a-changin'...". And he also wrote "Your
old road is / Rapidly agin'." I remember when I could point the finger like
that.
>> pull the magic from the bag. Here is the A.S. Byatt.
>>
>> Karla
>>
>
>Thanks. A good read.
>
>Mikel
You're welcome. Thank you for reading and commenting.
Karla
Karla
wrote:
Easy to believe Mr. Miller said that. He never really caught on with me.
>Bosley Fucking Crowther aka the Schmuckhole sent out his first-edition
>impressions of 5:15 (btw, tx for the nod). He should disqualify himself from
>commenting on writing or kill himself.
>
>Like him (gaaaaaag!), I noticed a surplus of everything, but I didn't read
>it as flawed writing.
>
>Those stores are bloat fomenters and bloated with their own aura of bloated
>pop knowledge. They are video arcades in their way. I like them, but not
>because of book culture. I like malls too.
Did you see "You've Got Mail"? If so, how did you like the resolve of book
culture in that film?
>I didn't read 5:15 as 'a poem'.
Because?
> November loses more light than any other
>month in our hemisphere. And so on.
Now see, I don't mind the personification of November and its casual or
careless stewardship of light. The Sock would though. Watch out!
>An old, yellowing, and dog-eared kind of bookseller, with a spiral staircase
>(like City Books on the South Side), would get a different poem, also
>appropriate to its worth and esteem.
I used to take a taxi to such a bookstore in San Francisco where I'd dash in,
pay for the book on hold, dash out to the waiting taxi and speed away without
ever meeting anyone's eyes. Better to miss the glint of blades and needles.
>I looked up Byatt. I'm not much of a reader, not like you.
You'll regret your mall time yet. I betcha you read more non-fiction than I
do. How else could you keep your job? Or was it all blarney?
>Did you know the name, 'B. Dalton', was created by a computer analysis?
>
>Walden Books began losing sales after Lyme Disease and West Nile Virus got
>famous.
>
>Independent, privately-owned, little bookstores get their books from the
>same warehouse as the chains, but you can walk to them.
But do chains stock some of the books that independent, privately-owned,
little bookstores choose to stock?
>
>Before Internet and Amazon:
>
>A book I wanted was just published, but no one had it or could get it.
>"You'll have to get it from the publisher". Everyone was using the same
>microfiche. Okay, fine. Time to beg. A friendly acquaintence, Diane, was the
>manager at B. Dalton's. Diane used BIP and said she would order it. In
>fairness, I also ordered 2 other books. A call came from the store that my
>book order was in. I bought a mohair scarf shawl for Diane. She wasn't at
>the store when I went, I left the gift and a note for her, and she was
>almost fired because I wasn't sneaky.
You remind me of one of the characters in West Wing, Stuart. I'm watching
Season One on DVD so don't refer to anything after that.
>Goethe called for more light also, but it was the last thing he did.
Would you describe him as confident in his request?
Thanks for the chat.
Karla
wrote:
Don't you hate it when the characters and culture get in the way of your task
at hand? How thoughtless of them.
Karla
>I agree with rj in some of his assessment. Pretentious I would agree
>to, self-absorbed, heavy, but only because you put yourself in the
>store a bit too much. Maybe a little distance would help, using a
>different point of view, describing someone or various scenes in the
>store to remove the weighty stroke of "I"?
I get the feeling you dislike the speaker and want the speaker to be someone
else.
>"Serious attempt" does not bother me at first, but then the repetition
>doesn't help the poem, I think. Initially the piece lost its rhythm for
>me at "Why so many hands reaching for this hack?" Too opinionated, too
>direct, it creates a distraction.
In what way does it distract from the thesis?
>I like the repeat of the word "lack" seguing into artful alliteration
>for the rest of the stanza. At least for its sound, that part is worth
>keeping. I feel like I'm being placed onto familiar reference
>points--Harry Potter, Self-Help, Poetry--that are appropriate & timely
>for the atmosphere, and I like the long-haired boys & girls and the
>gray-haired ladies you show. More such details would help, as rj
>suggests. And maybe appeal to me more with the other senses, as in the
>smell of the coffee, the musty old books, or even a show of emotion by
>a patron instead of a flat portrait? That would put me there more, I
>think, build the place up around me as we go.
If you think this is the type of bookstore where you'd find a high percentage
of musty, old books than I've failed at tagging the setting. As to "a show of
emotion by a patron", you seemed to either dismiss the hands grasping for the
hack's books or you want a different bookstore with different patrons. Yes?
>I agree with rj that straightforward statements like "The times they
>are changing/ We must make our own light, " etc. are not poetic. Drop
>them, figure out what you are really trying to say & slip it in
>poetically, but please don't leave them standing there naked as you
>have, especially at the very end where they shout "Here I am! The moral
>of the story."
See my comments to the Sock with respect to "poetic". Also with respect to
what I'm saying to the extent that you think you know what I'm saying and have
failed at it OR have commented on the poem without first arriving at a
conclusion as to what I'm saying. I get a feeling your disguise isn't quite
in place.
>Hope this helps.
It's a bit like pinning the tail on the donkey but I consented to the
blindfold.
Karla
>Leisha
A. Jinn (AJ)
you wish you could lose weight.
You are a dreamer.
--
http://Clitin.Com *The Pussy Poetry Palace*
*** MORE THAN 150 meg FREE Usenet PORNetry ***
(in > 80 "hands free" slideshows)
with poetry from famous poets (soon)
"Karla" <kar...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:rg8vn1930hpvgcskn...@4ax.com...
Stuart Leichter
kar...@sbcglobal.net wrote on 11/19/05 5:03 PM:
He was banned until SCOTUS let Mabel the camel in the tent.
>
>> Bosley Fucking Crowther aka the Schmuckhole sent out his first-edition
>> impressions of 5:15 (btw, tx for the nod). He should disqualify himself from
>> commenting on writing or kill himself.
>>
>> Like him (gaaaaaag!), I noticed a surplus of everything, but I didn't read
>> it as flawed writing.
>>
>> Those stores are bloat fomenters and bloated with their own aura of bloated
>> pop knowledge. They are video arcades in their way. I like them, but not
>> because of book culture. I like malls too.
>
> Did you see "You've Got Mail"? If so, how did you like the resolve of book
> culture in that film?
No, I didn't see it.
>
>> I didn't read 5:15 as 'a poem'.
>
> Because?
Because it invited me into a Joan Didion notebook.
On the page as an artifact it's like, say, you're holding, well, what is it
you're holding? -- a photograph? a photocopy? a laser print? a painting?
Call it a picture. The picture shows what might be an art gallery (it
doesn't matter) with six framed 'pictures' on the far side in the
background. You can see they are all portraying the same image, but you
can't tell which one is a photograph, which one is a painting, which one is
a Xerox copy, a laser print, which one is a DVD, or which one is a window.
But it isn't on a page here, and the gallery is like Usenet. Mostly because
it invited me into a Joan Didion notebook.
>
>> November loses more light than any other
>> month in our hemisphere. And so on.
>
> Now see, I don't mind the personification of November and its casual or
> careless stewardship of light. The Sock would though. Watch out!
>
>> An old, yellowing, and dog-eared kind of bookseller, with a spiral staircase
>> (like City Books on the South Side), would get a different poem, also
>> appropriate to its worth and esteem.
>
> I used to take a taxi to such a bookstore in San Francisco where I'd dash in,
> pay for the book on hold, dash out to the waiting taxi and speed away without
> ever meeting anyone's eyes. Better to miss the glint of blades and needles.
Tropic of Capricorn or Cancer?
>
>> I looked up Byatt. I'm not much of a reader, not like you.
>
> You'll regret your mall time yet. I betcha you read more non-fiction than I
> do. How else could you keep your job? Or was it all blarney?
In fact I worked general construction building a mall, and after it opened I
worked retail there. Fired from both. Since then, I've read, in ascending
order of quantity, poetry, fiction, drama, journalism, non-fiction, and
blarney.
>
>> Did you know the name, 'B. Dalton', was created by a computer analysis?
>>
>> Walden Books began losing sales after Lyme Disease and West Nile Virus got
>> famous.
>>
>> Independent, privately-owned, little bookstores get their books from the
>> same warehouse as the chains, but you can walk to them.
>
> But do chains stock some of the books that independent, privately-owned,
> little bookstores choose to stock?
Other than antiquarian shops, I think everyone says "Have you tried online?"
Sometimes I ask: Why do you still add two spaces after a period?
>>
>> Before Internet and Amazon:
>>
>> A book I wanted was just published, but no one had it or could get it.
>> "You'll have to get it from the publisher". Everyone was using the same
>> microfiche. Okay, fine. Time to beg. A friendly acquaintence, Diane, was the
>> manager at B. Dalton's. Diane used BIP and said she would order it. In
>> fairness, I also ordered 2 other books. A call came from the store that my
>> book order was in. I bought a mohair scarf shawl for Diane. She wasn't at
>> the store when I went, I left the gift and a note for her, and she was
>> almost fired because I wasn't sneaky.
>
> You remind me of one of the characters in West Wing, Stuart. I'm watching
> Season One on DVD so don't refer to anything after that.
'k. I haven't watched that sort of TV since The Untouchables and The
Fugitive.
>
>> Goethe called for more light also, but it was the last thing he did.
>
> Would you describe him as confident in his request?
Moi, I would ask for pizza, but I can't answer for him. You, it wasn't the
last request, was it?
>
> Thanks for the chat.
Sure thing.
>
> Karla
>
lakeslider
best forgotten. Its the poetic lines you want to avoid. Only quibble is
the stuff about Grisham, this hand has reached for that hack! Linger
on. Nigel
r j thurman
"Karla" <kar...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
in message news:<d13vn1l5el42bioh0...@4ax.com>:
> r j thurman wrote:
>
> > Initial impressions on first read:
>
> I appreciate you reading this in spite of your motives for
> commenting as well as your lack of confidence to comment without
> a sock.
Whatever.
> > This is overwrought and unctuous.
>
> I've thought about this comment as it applies to my draft. I'm not
> yet convinced that it's directed at my draft. The comment is
> unsupported and taken in context with the rest of your comments
> seems directed at "them".
"Reviewing" a review of your own material is considered
extremely bad form. Just say "Thanks," and let it go.
> > It plods stickily like a Thai ox-cart in spring mud.
>
> Are you able to conceive of the notion that I intended that?
"It's not a 'bug;' it's a 'feature,'" eh, Karla?
> [ mega-snip ]
>
> > Try again.
>
> Even if I didn't want to, I probably would.
> Once again, I appreciate your commenting whatever your motives are.
You asked for comments, and you got some. That's all.
It's over.
Speculations about motives are solely in your own mind.
A. Jinn (AJ)
"r j thurman" <rj...@birthlink.net> wrote in message news:11324662...@spool6-east.superfeed.net...
> You asked for comments, and you got some. That's all.
> It's over.
In almost all cases I could care less if the person implements
any changes at all. It would just mean I had to read the pile of shit
again. Once is almost always enough.
It was you that advised me on Verison, right?
I ordered it, and though they sent it to the wrong address
I sent the PCMCIA card back after hours on the phone
to verify that PCMCIA is the only interface they support.
Hell, I told telesales that I needed a PCI card...
It is hard to find someone that knows what you are talking about.
PCI sounds enough like PCMCIA to most of them...
Plus, though they don't seem to be protocol blocked,
their TOS is really bad. Even precludes streaming, or
uploading anything. No VOIP at all.
I can't justify it for just web browsing and email.
I'm not mentioning which one, but my current ISP seems
happy to deal with it more reasonably.
I will research Sat. stuff with this connection. This is an upscale
RV park with some nice rigs. One seems to have a top mounted
seeking dish...
I was offline for so long since I had to hang in Ukiah for my
handyman to tune me up, etc... it is nice to have someone
to help out with the dirty work, since I am too lame at this point.
Cheaper than mechanics. I'll miss him.
r j thurman
A. Jinn wrote
in message news:<43802a79$0$20274$8f2e...@news.shared-secrets.com>:
> It was you that advised me on Verison, right?
Wrong!
I advised you against trying to use WiFi hotspots for your 'Net
access -- which was one idea you were considering before you
hit the road.
I suggested that satellite might be a possibility, but that it
was relatively expensive.
Also said that wireless was an option to explore. Never mentioned
Verizon, though.
If you were gonna stay put for awhile, I'd advise you to go with
a local, independent ISP. They almost always provide the best
service at the lowest prices.
Why anyone -- particularly a "techie" -- would go with a national
provider (AOL, MSN, etc.) is totally beyond comprehension, IMHO.
They're invariably a rip-off.
I'll bet there are local independent ISPs in San Fran-sicko that
could set you up you with wireless access where you are, for not
a lot of money.
And without ridiculous TOS restrictions, too.
But that idea only makes sense if you'll be staying in Marin for
a fair length of time.
If you'll be zappin' around the country a lot, then all bets are off.
A. Jinn (AJ)
"r j thurman" <rj...@birthlink.net> wrote in message news:11324850...@spool6-east.superfeed.net...
>
> A. Jinn wrote
> in message news:<43802a79$0$20274$8f2e...@news.shared-secrets.com>:
>
>> It was you that advised me on Verison, right?
>
> Wrong!
>
> I advised you against trying to use WiFi hotspots for your 'Net
> access -- which was one idea you were considering before you
> hit the road.
Yes. I'm somewhat considering making the campground wireless
and letting the office collect the cash, run the thing off my connection.
Debating. This RV Park already has phone and cable connections
at every site, but still looks like some of these folks would pay
a little more for wireless.
>
> I suggested that satellite might be a possibility, but that it
> was relatively expensive.
I've heard a few grand for the setup, and then $75 or so per mo.
...but need to do the research. That sounds pretty good, if it is
unresticted.
>
> Also said that wireless was an option to explore. Never mentioned
> Verizon, though.
Sorry, I guess it was BL.
>
> If you were gonna stay put for awhile, I'd advise you to go with
> a local, independent ISP. They almost always provide the best
> service at the lowest prices.
Yes. I am now connected. (just the Vonage phone doesn't work yet)
It does seem possible to only frequent Parks that have cable or
DSL phone connections. There seem to be a number, but still need
more research.
>
> Why anyone -- particularly a "techie" -- would go with a national
> provider (AOL, MSN, etc.) is totally beyond comprehension, IMHO.
> They're invariably a rip-off.
What? Verizon? ...they /looked/ like they
had a good wireless /deal/.
(but examination of their TOS and their support of ONLY
PCMCIA changed my mind) I sent back the phone too.
(which is necessary to get $20 off the wireless bill)
So I was offline for a few weeks. Poor me. :)
I told SBC to disconnect me the 28th, and thought I would have
the 28th to say bye-bye and a few other thingies... but no, they
don't look at it that way... Midnight the 27th it is gone...
Oh well...
>
> I'll bet there are local independent ISPs in San Fran-sicko that
> could set you up you with wireless access where you are, for not
> a lot of money.
My wireless card doesn't pick up anything, here.
2 in Ukiah that were restricted. I don't know how to
translate their Wireless name into locating them.
>
> And without ridiculous TOS restrictions, too.
>
> But that idea only makes sense if you'll be staying in Marin for
> a fair length of time.
>
> If you'll be zappin' around the country a lot, then all bets are off.
Well who knows... :)
As it is I can Zappy to the City from my RV space.
(...it is a stretch, since it involves a pedestrian bridge
that spans a pseudo-river that feeds Corta Medera)
...hills and the Zappy don't mix. An overpass is a big
hill for po' Zappy... Needs a bigger battery.
There are insane-lovely bike trails, with spectacular views, also
Zappy-ible. ...even a Noordstroms. Which sounds like a Zappy
happy place.
Leisha
> On 15 Nov 2005 12:11:35 -0800, "Leisha" <lei...@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
>
> >I agree with rj in some of his assessment. Pretentious I would agree
> >to, self-absorbed, heavy, but only because you put yourself in the
> >store a bit too much. Maybe a little distance would help, using a
> >different point of view, describing someone or various scenes in the
> >store to remove the weighty stroke of "I"?
>
> I get the feeling you dislike the speaker and want the speaker to be someone
> else.
I don't care who the speaker is, I was just thinking that maybe a
little distance would help provide a lighter appeal.
>
> >"Serious attempt" does not bother me at first, but then the repetition
> >doesn't help the poem, I think. Initially the piece lost its rhythm for
> >me at "Why so many hands reaching for this hack?" Too opinionated, too
> >direct, it creates a distraction.
>
> In what way does it distract from the thesis?
The thesis could be, for example, that this book store is bad,
everything in it is bad, like the hack writer. But the thesis, with its
statements of fact supporting an author's opinion, is better suited to
such prose as critical and technical writing.
My response, and why I said that the piece lost its rhythm for me
there, was based on how the speaker in the poem suddenly lends a sharp,
personal opinion to the scene, an opinion I may not agree with. I have
no one else in this poem to relate to; I can't take another point of
view but must continue to follow the speaker.
Don't you think the feelings I have about what I experience in the poem
should be my own, dictated by my own experience & association, instead
of being dictated in such a direct manner?
>
> >I like the repeat of the word "lack" seguing into artful alliteration
> >for the rest of the stanza. At least for its sound, that part is worth
> >keeping. I feel like I'm being placed onto familiar reference
> >points--Harry Potter, Self-Help, Poetry--that are appropriate & timely
> >for the atmosphere, and I like the long-haired boys & girls and the
> >gray-haired ladies you show. More such details would help, as rj
> >suggests. And maybe appeal to me more with the other senses, as in the
> >smell of the coffee, the musty old books, or even a show of emotion by
> >a patron instead of a flat portrait? That would put me there more, I
> >think, build the place up around me as we go.
>
> If you think this is the type of bookstore where you'd find a high percentage
> of musty, old books than I've failed at tagging the setting. As to "a show of
> emotion by a patron", you seemed to either dismiss the hands grasping for the
> hack's books or you want a different bookstore with different patrons. Yes?
The grasping hands are vague, though. They are attached to no one
person. And the smell of new books would be okay, too, of course.
Anything.
>
> >I agree with rj that straightforward statements like "The times they
> >are changing/ We must make our own light, " etc. are not poetic. Drop
> >them, figure out what you are really trying to say & slip it in
> >poetically, but please don't leave them standing there naked as you
> >have, especially at the very end where they shout "Here I am! The moral
> >of the story."
>
> See my comments to the Sock with respect to "poetic". Also with respect to
> what I'm saying to the extent that you think you know what I'm saying and have
> failed at it OR have commented on the poem without first arriving at a
> conclusion as to what I'm saying. I get a feeling your disguise isn't quite
> in place.
The content, or "what you're saying" is less important to me than good
poetry. I frankly don't care whether the poem is about a great love
lost or shoveling out the chicken coop. Any subject is fair game as far
as I'm concerned; but how is the poem told? With what art, with what
devices? Is it done well? How could it be improved?
As to my disguise, I have represented myself here as nothing but
another nobody who cares about poetry, loves to read it, write it, and
comment upon it. That's all. I have no credentials, I have not
published in any of the high-quality poetry journals. Nothing. I'm
nobody. How could I misrepresent that?
Leisha
Leisha
r j thurman wrote:
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>
> "Karla" <kar...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
> in message news:<d13vn1l5el42bioh0...@4ax.com>:
>
> > r j thurman wrote:
> >
> > > Initial impressions on first read:
> >
> > I appreciate you reading this in spite of your motives for
> > commenting as well as your lack of confidence to comment without
> > a sock.
>
>
> Whatever.
>
>
> > > This is overwrought and unctuous.
> >
> > I've thought about this comment as it applies to my draft. I'm not
> > yet convinced that it's directed at my draft. The comment is
> > unsupported and taken in context with the rest of your comments
> > seems directed at "them".
>
>
> "Reviewing" a review of your own material is considered
> extremely bad form. Just say "Thanks," and let it go.
Yes. This thread got weird, but what was weird about it was that the
poet isn't one of those knee-jerk defensive types who posts something
for comment only to pounce on every passer-by. Instead she accepted
some criticism graciously but rejected some with malice.
Perhaps our posters are becoming a bit more refined?
Leisha
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Leisha" <lei...@decisionresearch.org> wrote in message news:1132530217....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Perhaps our posters are becoming a bit more refined?
Shit, as far as I can see they are all idiots.
Karla
I see, you think that we post poems in a vacuum. We pretend that we don't
read certain posters in other threads. We pretend that we know nothing of
their intentions. We ignore their "extremely bad form" elsewhere.
What's more, it seems that you may want to limit a discussion where people
might learn something. You label my remarks malicious when you might have
given me the benefit of the doubt as I did when I threw down a gauntlet for
Mr. Sock to explain his sweeping criticism. Where is it unctuous, where is it
overwrought, which line(s) contain threadbare imagery, etc.
Lastly, I don't care if I offend your sensibilities by not conforming to some
practice of saying thank you to a troll. This is no longer the poetry
newsgroup of the past. Grand Avenue has become a back alley. It won't become
Grand Avenue again until we clear out the dead beats.
Karla
Barbara's Cat
> Shit, as far as I can see they are all idiots.
"Everyone here is an idiot." -- idiot Tom Bishop
--
Cm~
Stuart Leichter
kar...@sbcglobal.net wrote on 11/20/05 7:08 PM:
> It won't become
> Grand Avenue again until we clear out the dead beats.
First of all, I think Titanic is among the greatest all-time movies. When it
came out years ago, it stunned me. I had three root canals soon after. A few
weeks ago I watched it on HBO, on too small a screen, but I was assured of
its being a masterpiece.
Let me know when I can take my video iPod phone to my local bookstore and
show you your poem where I live.
--
Stuart
Karla
>Karla wrote:
>> On 15 Nov 2005 12:11:35 -0800, "Leisha" <lei...@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
>>
>> >I agree with rj in some of his assessment. Pretentious I would agree
>> >to, self-absorbed, heavy, but only because you put yourself in the
>> >store a bit too much. Maybe a little distance would help, using a
>> >different point of view, describing someone or various scenes in the
>> >store to remove the weighty stroke of "I"?
>>
>> I get the feeling you dislike the speaker and want the speaker to be someone
>> else.
>
>I don't care who the speaker is, I was just thinking that maybe a
>little distance would help provide a lighter appeal.
My intent isn't to be light. For you to want the poem to be lighter and the
speaker in the poem to have less presence makes me think that you either want
a different poem or a different speaker in the poem. That is perfectly fine.
However, I can't really tell since you seem to confuse me with the speaker.
Since you don't know me, it appears that you're making a fairly common mistake
of confusing the author with the speaker.
>> >"Serious attempt" does not bother me at first, but then the repetition
>> >doesn't help the poem, I think. Initially the piece lost its rhythm for
>> >me at "Why so many hands reaching for this hack?" Too opinionated, too
>> >direct, it creates a distraction.
>>
>> In what way does it distract from the thesis?
>
>The thesis could be, for example, that this book store is bad,
>everything in it is bad, like the hack writer. But the thesis, with its
>statements of fact supporting an author's opinion, is better suited to
>such prose as critical and technical writing.
We disagree. The speaker's opinion isn't necessarily the author's opinion.
There are no rules that bar facts from appearing in poetry. I'm not sure if
you took time to figure out the thesis in this poem or if you don't read
poetry that way. I am inclined to think the latter. Again, that's fine. But
for my purposes, I have to know how you read poetry in order to weigh your
comments about my poem.
>My response, and why I said that the piece lost its rhythm for me
>there, was based on how the speaker in the poem suddenly lends a sharp,
>personal opinion to the scene, an opinion I may not agree with. I have
>no one else in this poem to relate to; I can't take another point of
>view but must continue to follow the speaker.
>
>Don't you think the feelings I have about what I experience in the poem
>should be my own, dictated by my own experience & association, instead
>of being dictated in such a direct manner?
To a degree. It's hard to say, Leisha. You didn't write "Karla, I don't like
this serious-type of character who bursts out with judgmental thoughts about
Grisham. I like a character who never goes to Barnes & Noble." Instead, you
suggested changes to the poem which suggest your experience of the poem was
unpleasant. You suggested that the character has less of a presence and
doesn't burst out with judgmental comments. That leaves me thinking that you
want to dictate to me how to write a poem that you'd like. If I'm not
understanding you, please let me know. My questions are trying to understand
if you get what I'm doing with the poem. What is the thesis? Who is this
character? What is the mood? What is the setting? Then, do the poetics work?
>> >I like the repeat of the word "lack" seguing into artful alliteration
>> >for the rest of the stanza. At least for its sound, that part is worth
>> >keeping. I feel like I'm being placed onto familiar reference
>> >points--Harry Potter, Self-Help, Poetry--that are appropriate & timely
>> >for the atmosphere, and I like the long-haired boys & girls and the
>> >gray-haired ladies you show. More such details would help, as rj
>> >suggests. And maybe appeal to me more with the other senses, as in the
>> >smell of the coffee, the musty old books, or even a show of emotion by
>> >a patron instead of a flat portrait? That would put me there more, I
>> >think, build the place up around me as we go.
>>
>> If you think this is the type of bookstore where you'd find a high percentage
>> of musty, old books than I've failed at tagging the setting. As to "a show of
>> emotion by a patron", you seemed to either dismiss the hands grasping for the
>> hack's books or you want a different bookstore with different patrons. Yes?
>
>The grasping hands are vague, though. They are attached to no one
>person. And the smell of new books would be okay, too, of course.
>Anything.
Hmm, so hands grasping for Grisham didn't tag a specific type of reader for
you? By the way, the poetic term for this is synecdoche.
>>
>> >I agree with rj that straightforward statements like "The times they
>> >are changing/ We must make our own light, " etc. are not poetic. Drop
>> >them, figure out what you are really trying to say & slip it in
>> >poetically, but please don't leave them standing there naked as you
>> >have, especially at the very end where they shout "Here I am! The moral
>> >of the story."
>>
>> See my comments to the Sock with respect to "poetic". Also with respect to
>> what I'm saying to the extent that you think you know what I'm saying and have
>> failed at it OR have commented on the poem without first arriving at a
>> conclusion as to what I'm saying. I get a feeling your disguise isn't quite
>> in place.
>
>The content, or "what you're saying" is less important to me than good
>poetry. I frankly don't care whether the poem is about a great love
>lost or shoveling out the chicken coop. Any subject is fair game as far
>as I'm concerned; but how is the poem told? With what art, with what
>devices? Is it done well? How could it be improved?
I really appreciate the time you took to read and comment twice now on this
poem. I really, really do. My leaning on you to better explain your
criticism is truly, at this point, to understand how you read poetry. I think
that we disagree on what makes a poem. For me, it's sounds and sense. I much
prefer Browning's "Soliloquy of the Spanish Cloister" to Milton's Paradise
Lost. I've acquired a respect for Milton's writing however. I won't pretend
to love it. From your comments, it appears that sound is more your cup of tea
than sense but I am open to the fact that I'm misunderstanding what you've
written.
Now, I get that you didn't like how I told the poem, it lacked art and/or
poetic devices to please your ear. I think that you want a different poem but
I don't dismiss what you've said, in fact, I took several days to respond to
your comments and others. Criticism is difficult to do well and we learn to
write poetry by taking the time to write a critique. Thank you for making me
think through my poem by trying to see it the way you see it.
By the way, the poetic term for the reference to the Dylan song is called an
allusion. This allusion didn't work for you while the earlier references to
Harry Potter did.
>As to my disguise, I have represented myself here as nothing but
>another nobody who cares about poetry, loves to read it, write it, and
>comment upon it. That's all. I have no credentials, I have not
>published in any of the high-quality poetry journals. Nothing. I'm
>nobody. How could I misrepresent that?
You do seem to represent yourself here most of the time as described but at
other times stand with the trolls. This doesn't mean your comments about
poetry should be dismissed. It just makes it harder on anyone reading your
criticism.
I hope we can continue to discuss things poetic.
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Karla" <kar...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:h132o1hambimorh41...@4ax.com...
> I see, you think that we post poems in a vacuum.
No, many of us know full well you are a fat woman that couldn't
get fucked by a toilet plunger.
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Stuart Leichter" <leic...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:BFA68192.41E80%leic...@bellsouth.net...
Your iPod isn't fat enough for a karla poem.
Heh..
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Karla" <kar...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:kn42o1dnbbvn7ans4...@4ax.com...
Karla, you are so fucken fat that it is hard to believe
that you have the balls to post.
Power to you, fat-bitch.
Karla
wrote:
>in article h132o1hambimorh41...@4ax.com, Karla at
>kar...@sbcglobal.net wrote on 11/20/05 7:08 PM:
>
>> It won't become
>> Grand Avenue again until we clear out the dead beats.
>
>First of all, I think Titanic is among the greatest all-time movies.
Really? What other movies make your list?
>When it
>came out years ago, it stunned me. I had three root canals soon after.
What marvelous timing! Why didn't I do that after seeing Schindler's List?
Dammit!!!11!!
>A few
>weeks ago I watched it on HBO, on too small a screen, but I was assured of
>its being a masterpiece.
I bet I watched it the same night, three hours later, while I pvp'd in
Shadowbane. It was almost like the first time. *SPOILER* The ship sinks.
>Let me know when I can take my video iPod phone to my local bookstore and
>show you your poem where I live.
Is that you and the ghosts looking at me through my balcony window as I type?
Scan my desk and you won't find an iPod or Blackberry or cell phone. I'm just
no fun.
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Karla" <kar...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:ds72o1pbkkmnv1s64...@4ax.com...
> Really? What other movies make your list?
I guess Titanic makes you feel slim or something,
but you are a fat bitch no matter how you slice it.
Why not fuck off and die, fat bitch?
A question inspired by your friend peewee.
Stuart Leichter
kar...@sbcglobal.net wrote on 11/20/05 8:22 PM:
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:40:03 -0500, Stuart Leichter <leic...@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>
>> in article h132o1hambimorh41...@4ax.com, Karla at
>> kar...@sbcglobal.net wrote on 11/20/05 7:08 PM:
>>
>>> It won't become
>>> Grand Avenue again until we clear out the dead beats.
>>
>> First of all, I think Titanic is among the greatest all-time movies.
>
> Really? What other movies make your list?
There have to be a thousand, just on mine.
But I would survey 1000 people and include theirs, then another 1000 people,
and so on, until there were everyone's all-time greatest.
It's now or not at all, while people who saw Birth of a Nation in a theater
are still alive.
The Virgin Queen, Part 2 is on -- now!
--
Stuart
r j thurman
Leisha <lei...@decisionresearch.org> wrote
in article news:<1132530217....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
> r j thurman wrote:
>
> > "Karla" wrote:
> >
> > > r j thurman wrote:
> > >
> > > > This is overwrought and unctuous.
> > >
> > > I've thought about this comment as it applies to my draft. I'm
> > > not yet convinced that it's directed at my draft. The comment
> > > is unsupported and taken in context with the rest of your
> > > comments seems directed at "them".
> >
> > "Reviewing" a review of your own material is considered
> > extremely bad form. Just say "Thanks," and let it go.
>
> Yes. This thread got weird, but what was weird about it was that
> the poet isn't one of those knee-jerk defensive types who posts
> something for comment only to pounce on every passer-by. Instead
> she accepted some criticism graciously but rejected some with
> malice.
>
> Perhaps our posters are becoming a bit more refined?
>
> Leisha
Heh. Doubtful. It's likely a matter of 'clique-alignment.'
Criticism from the 'in-crowd' (members of the 'correct' cliques)
will be graciously accepted.
Opinions from those perceived as being part of the 'out-crowd'
(from the 'wrong' cliques) will be viewed with suspicion.
It's the same old tribalism that's been with us for millennia,
and that's still exhibited daily in these newsgroups.
It's an innate aspect of human nature.
It's why the Islamic towel-heads will never get along with non-
Muslims, and why the rabid socialists and the politically-correct
warm-fuzzy 'one-worlders' will never succeed in their nutty quests.
For those few 'loners' who somehow managed to be born without this
ubiquitous need to "belong," it's all mildly amusing.
Stuart Leichter
rj...@birthlink.net wrote on 11/20/05 11:11 PM:
Beware the green-eyed monster?
Karla, it just so happens, is our National Poetry Month's CEO and its
indefatigable fund-raiser. For my part I am nothing except grateful and
loyal.
Will you retract?
Will Dockery
>"Leisha" wrote:
> >r j thurman wrote:
> > >> >
> >> > > Initial impressions on first read:
> >> >
> >> > I appreciate you reading this in spite of your motives for
> >> > commenting as well as your lack of confidence to comment without
> >> > a sock.
> >>
> >> Whatever.
> >>
> >> > > This is overwrought and unctuous.
> >> >
> >> > I've thought about this comment as it applies to my draft. I'm not
> >> > yet convinced that it's directed at my draft. The comment is
> >> > unsupported and taken in context with the rest of your comments
> >> > seems directed at "them".
> >>
> >> "Reviewing" a review of your own material is considered
> >> extremely bad form. Just say "Thanks," and let it go.
> >
> >Yes. This thread got weird, but what was weird about it was that the
> >poet isn't one of those knee-jerk defensive types who posts something
> >for comment only to pounce on every passer-by. Instead she accepted
> >some criticism graciously but rejected some with malice.
> >
> >Perhaps our posters are becoming a bit more refined?
>
> read certain posters in other threads. We pretend that we know nothing of
> their intentions. We ignore their "extremely bad form" elsewhere.
Depends on which side of the fence the posters are on, as everyone
knows.
--
Ozone Stigmata by Dockery-Conley:
http://sohobarandgrill.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=239
Antigone by Dockery-Conley:
http://sohobarandgrill.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=561#561
Stuart Leichter
> bigbe1.bellsouth.net!bigfeed.bellsouth.net!news.bellsouth.net!news.glorb.com!p
> ostnews.google.com!o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
> From: "Will Dockery" <will.d...@gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.arts.poems,us.arts.poetry
> Subject: Re: 5:15
> Date: 20 Nov 2005 20:43:30 -0800
> Organization: http://groups.google.com
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> Xref: bigfeed.bellsouth.net alt.arts.poetry.comments:565562
> rec.arts.poems:507924 us.arts.poetry:30627
R U Dockery the infamous xposter? Y did U xpost that? U didn't even include
the original work.
Will Dockery
Stuart Leichter wrote:
Because it was long since snipped, Stu... just another crappy Karla
poem anyhow, so no loss.
So why don't you send Rik
<http://www.kalieda.org/photos/rogues-gallery.html> a photo for the
gallery, if not to the Berryman and Bishop gallery?
Stuart Leichter
> bigbe1.bellsouth.net!bigfeed.bellsouth.net!news.bellsouth.net!news.glorb.com!p
> ostnews.google.com!g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
> From: "Will Dockery" <will.d...@gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.arts.poems,us.arts.poetry
> Subject: Re: 5:15
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> Xref: bigfeed.bellsouth.net alt.arts.poetry.comments:565568
> rec.arts.poems:507930 us.arts.poetry:30630
Will, honey, I'll do anything you want if you'll only tell me why you
xposted those, why you added us.arts.poetry.
Have a heart, don't force me to guess.
Will Dockery
Will Dockery
>> Leisha wrote
> > > "Karla" wrote:
> > > > r j thurman wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This is overwrought and unctuous.
> > > >
> > > > I've thought about this comment as it applies to my draft. I'm
> > > > not yet convinced that it's directed at my draft. The comment
> > > > is unsupported and taken in context with the rest of your
> > > > comments seems directed at "them".
> > >
> > > "Reviewing" a review of your own material is considered
> > > extremely bad form. Just say "Thanks," and let it go.
> >
> > Yes. This thread got weird, but what was weird about it was that
> > the poet isn't one of those knee-jerk defensive types who posts
> > something for comment only to pounce on every passer-by. Instead
> > she accepted some criticism graciously but rejected some with
> > malice.
> >
> > Perhaps our posters are becoming a bit more refined?
>
>
> Criticism from the 'in-crowd' (members of the 'correct' cliques)
> will be graciously accepted.
>
> Opinions from those perceived as being part of the 'out-crowd'
> (from the 'wrong' cliques) will be viewed with suspicion.
>
> It's the same old tribalism that's been with us for millennia,
> and that's still exhibited daily in these newsgroups.
>
> It's an innate aspect of human nature.
>
> It's why the Islamic towel-heads will never get along with non-
> Muslims, and why the rabid socialists and the politically-correct
> warm-fuzzy 'one-worlders' will never succeed in their nutty quests.
>
> For those few 'loners' who somehow managed to be born without this
> ubiquitous need to "belong," it's all mildly amusing.
As someone asked me here a week or so ago: "Which side are you on?"
Mine.
r j thurman
Stuart Leichter <leic...@bellsouth.net> wrote
in article news:<BFA6B8A4.41F24%leic...@bellsouth.net>:
> Beware the green-eyed monster?
>
> Karla, it just so happens, is our National Poetry Month's CEO and
> its indefatigable fund-raiser. For my part I am nothing except
> grateful and loyal.
Admirable qualities, to be sure -- although not too cool if
taken to the extreme of exiling reality.
> Will you retract?
No. Now go back to The Golf Channel.
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Stuart Leichter" <leic...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:BFA69490.41EE2%leic...@bellsouth.net...
So you are in love with fat women.
How cute.
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Stuart Leichter" <leic...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:BFA6B8A4.41F24%leic...@bellsouth.net...
> Karla, it just so happens, is our National Poetry Month's CEO and its
> indefatigable fund-raiser. For my part I am nothing except grateful and
> loyal.
She is just a fat bitch that knows little about poetry.
Hopefully she will fuck off and die.
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Will Dockery" <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1132549834.3...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Because it was long since snipped, Stu... just another crappy Karla
> poem anyhow, so no loss.
>
> So why don't you send Rik
> <http://www.kalieda.org/photos/rogues-gallery.html> a photo for the
> gallery, if not to the Berryman and Bishop gallery?
Not mine. I just host the page. I'll take updates if BL wishes to supply them
but no rush. I have enough faces to mix with porn when I get a chance.
Sure, I'll miss some, but who cares...
r j thurman
Will Dockery <will_d...@knology.net> wrote
in article news:<f01df$43817831$18d62363$98...@KNOLOGY.NET>:
> r j thurman wrote:
>
> > For those few 'loners' who somehow managed to be born without
> > this ubiquitous need to "belong," it's all mildly amusing.
>
> As someone asked me here a week or so ago: "Which side are you on?"
>
> Mine.
An excellent philosophy, Dock.
Barbara's Cat
What?! You crossposted it because "it was snipped"?
That's one the stupidest reasons you've ever given.
--
Cm~
Barbara's Cat
pandora
"r j thurman" <rj...@birthlink.net> wrote in message
news:11325655...@spool6-east.superfeed.net...
>
> Will Dockery <will_d...@knology.net> wrote
> in article news:<f01df$43817831$18d62363$98...@KNOLOGY.NET>:
>
> > r j thurman wrote:
> >
> > > For those few 'loners' who somehow managed to be born without
> > > this ubiquitous need to "belong," it's all mildly amusing.
> >
> > As someone asked me here a week or so ago: "Which side are you on?"
> >
> > Mine.
>
>
> An excellent philosophy, Dock.
>
Marg
Leisha
people say from one thread to another. I ignore their bad form. I am
someone's mother, and I advise them on etiquette, but come on, A. Jinn
knows that it's rude to call someone a fat bitch & what good would it
do for me to point that out?
Anyway, which fence, Will? I think that some people's criticism is more
readily accepted than others because of how the original poster
perceives them or their newsgroup history. But can't any one of us
change, be kind in a moment? Those are the moments, the people I turn
to & recognize. Otherwise I usually ignore them.
Leisha
Leisha
this newsgroup atmosphere to the horrors now showing on the stage of
the world, it feels more like high school to me!
Did you ever belong in a clique? I never did. So I'm not being slapped
down because I'm in the wrong clique, certainly, unless that's a
misperception. I must admit that I am being slapped down because of
some perception about me personally.
Maybe I'm being judged on my own merits, but it's more likely that it
has little if anything to do with me at all.
Leisha
Leisha
> On 20 Nov 2005 15:27:08 -0800, "Leisha" <lei...@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
>
> >Karla wrote:
> >> On 15 Nov 2005 12:11:35 -0800, "Leisha" <lei...@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I agree with rj in some of his assessment. Pretentious I would agree
> >> >to, self-absorbed, heavy, but only because you put yourself in the
> >> >store a bit too much. Maybe a little distance would help, using a
> >> >different point of view, describing someone or various scenes in the
> >> >store to remove the weighty stroke of "I"?
> >>
> >> I get the feeling you dislike the speaker and want the speaker to be someone
> >> else.
> >
> >I don't care who the speaker is, I was just thinking that maybe a
> >little distance would help provide a lighter appeal.
>
> My intent isn't to be light. For you to want the poem to be lighter and the
> speaker in the poem to have less presence makes me think that you either want
> a different poem or a different speaker in the poem. That is perfectly fine.
> However, I can't really tell since you seem to confuse me with the speaker.
> Since you don't know me, it appears that you're making a fairly common mistake
> of confusing the author with the speaker.
No, but I know that it's easy to seem ambiguous on this point.
>
> >> >"Serious attempt" does not bother me at first, but then the repetition
> >> >doesn't help the poem, I think. Initially the piece lost its rhythm for
> >> >me at "Why so many hands reaching for this hack?" Too opinionated, too
> >> >direct, it creates a distraction.
> >>
> >> In what way does it distract from the thesis?
> >
> >The thesis could be, for example, that this book store is bad,
> >everything in it is bad, like the hack writer. But the thesis, with its
> >statements of fact supporting an author's opinion, is better suited to
> >such prose as critical and technical writing.
>
> We disagree. The speaker's opinion isn't necessarily the author's opinion.
> There are no rules that bar facts from appearing in poetry. I'm not sure if
> you took time to figure out the thesis in this poem or if you don't read
> poetry that way. I am inclined to think the latter. Again, that's fine. But
> for my purposes, I have to know how you read poetry in order to weigh your
> comments about my poem.
How I read poetry. Wow. Here's how I read poetry here, where my
intention is usually to provide a critique. On my first read through a
poem I just feel it. On the second read I look for why it feels that
way to me--was it the assonance, alliteration, rhythm, imagery? Then I
comment from there.
>
> >My response, and why I said that the piece lost its rhythm for me
> >there, was based on how the speaker in the poem suddenly lends a sharp,
> >personal opinion to the scene, an opinion I may not agree with. I have
> >no one else in this poem to relate to; I can't take another point of
> >view but must continue to follow the speaker.
> >
> >Don't you think the feelings I have about what I experience in the poem
> >should be my own, dictated by my own experience & association, instead
> >of being dictated in such a direct manner?
>
> To a degree. It's hard to say, Leisha. You didn't write "Karla, I don't like
> this serious-type of character who bursts out with judgmental thoughts about
> Grisham. I like a character who never goes to Barnes & Noble." Instead, you
> suggested changes to the poem which suggest your experience of the poem was
> unpleasant. You suggested that the character has less of a presence and
> doesn't burst out with judgmental comments. That leaves me thinking that you
> want to dictate to me how to write a poem that you'd like.
A former boss of mine who is an excellent editor would always answer
questions like this with "Of course! All editors are just trying to
make everyone else write like we do." I think he's right.
If I'm not
> understanding you, please let me know. My questions are trying to understand
> if you get what I'm doing with the poem. What is the thesis? Who is this
> character? What is the mood? What is the setting? Then, do the poetics work?
>
>
> >> >I like the repeat of the word "lack" seguing into artful alliteration
> >> >for the rest of the stanza. At least for its sound, that part is worth
> >> >keeping. I feel like I'm being placed onto familiar reference
> >> >points--Harry Potter, Self-Help, Poetry--that are appropriate & timely
> >> >for the atmosphere, and I like the long-haired boys & girls and the
> >> >gray-haired ladies you show. More such details would help, as rj
> >> >suggests. And maybe appeal to me more with the other senses, as in the
> >> >smell of the coffee, the musty old books, or even a show of emotion by
> >> >a patron instead of a flat portrait? That would put me there more, I
> >> >think, build the place up around me as we go.
> >>
> >> If you think this is the type of bookstore where you'd find a high percentage
> >> of musty, old books than I've failed at tagging the setting. As to "a show of
> >> emotion by a patron", you seemed to either dismiss the hands grasping for the
> >> hack's books or you want a different bookstore with different patrons. Yes?
> >
> >The grasping hands are vague, though. They are attached to no one
> >person. And the smell of new books would be okay, too, of course.
> >Anything.
>
> Hmm, so hands grasping for Grisham didn't tag a specific type of reader for
> you? By the way, the poetic term for this is synecdoche.
Thanks, no. I think I get your point now. I'm just not as smart as you.
Not as much of an intellectual. I probably prefer things that are down
to my own level. Things I can feel, you know? And I don't want to have
to work so hard as to dream up what the Grisham reader is like. I'd
rather you show me.
>
> >>
> >> >I agree with rj that straightforward statements like "The times they
> >> >are changing/ We must make our own light, " etc. are not poetic. Drop
> >> >them, figure out what you are really trying to say & slip it in
> >> >poetically, but please don't leave them standing there naked as you
> >> >have, especially at the very end where they shout "Here I am! The moral
> >> >of the story."
> >>
> >> See my comments to the Sock with respect to "poetic". Also with respect to
> >> what I'm saying to the extent that you think you know what I'm saying and have
> >> failed at it OR have commented on the poem without first arriving at a
> >> conclusion as to what I'm saying. I get a feeling your disguise isn't quite
> >> in place.
> >
> >The content, or "what you're saying" is less important to me than good
> >poetry. I frankly don't care whether the poem is about a great love
> >lost or shoveling out the chicken coop. Any subject is fair game as far
> >as I'm concerned; but how is the poem told? With what art, with what
> >devices? Is it done well? How could it be improved?
>
> I really appreciate the time you took to read and comment twice now on this
> poem. I really, really do. My leaning on you to better explain your
> criticism is truly, at this point, to understand how you read poetry. I think
> that we disagree on what makes a poem. For me, it's sounds and sense. I much
> prefer Browning's "Soliloquy of the Spanish Cloister" to Milton's Paradise
> Lost. I've acquired a respect for Milton's writing however. I won't pretend
> to love it. From your comments, it appears that sound is more your cup of tea
> than sense but I am open to the fact that I'm misunderstanding what you've
> written.
>
> Now, I get that you didn't like how I told the poem, it lacked art and/or
> poetic devices to please your ear. I think that you want a different poem but
> I don't dismiss what you've said, in fact, I took several days to respond to
> your comments and others. Criticism is difficult to do well and we learn to
> write poetry by taking the time to write a critique. Thank you for making me
> think through my poem by trying to see it the way you see it.
>
> By the way, the poetic term for the reference to the Dylan song is called an
> allusion. This allusion didn't work for you while the earlier references to
> Harry Potter did.
Now you mock me. You can't honestly think I don't know what allusion
is, just because we apply our poetic devices differently as both poets
& critics?
>
> >As to my disguise, I have represented myself here as nothing but
> >another nobody who cares about poetry, loves to read it, write it, and
> >comment upon it. That's all. I have no credentials, I have not
> >published in any of the high-quality poetry journals. Nothing. I'm
> >nobody. How could I misrepresent that?
>
> You do seem to represent yourself here most of the time as described but at
> other times stand with the trolls.
I don't care who is seen as a troll or who isn't. Sometimes I agree
with people, sometimes I don't, and whatever make-believe category they
belong to or have been thrust into is not worthy of my consideration.
The only troll who I resented personally in all the time I've been
posting here was Chuck, I must admit. He was a plagiarist, though, and
they are the enemies of all poets & writers, don't you think?
Yeah, I took that personally.
This doesn't mean your comments about
> poetry should be dismissed. It just makes it harder on anyone reading your
> criticism.
I think it's not harder if you just ignore the drama.
>
> I hope we can continue to discuss things poetic.
We certainly can. The best critics are mean enough to be honest. I will
post something so that you can viciously tear it to pieces, okay?
Leisha
>
> Karla
>
> >Leisha
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Leisha" <lei...@decisionresearch.org> wrote in message news:1132596648.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I think this is what Will was trying to say. But rather than comparing
> this newsgroup atmosphere to the horrors now showing on the stage of
> the world, it feels more like high school to me!
It is the dregs of poets.
A combination of half-illiterates, kooks, and failed writers.
>
> Did you ever belong in a clique? I never did. So I'm not being slapped
> down because I'm in the wrong clique, certainly, unless that's a
> misperception. I must admit that I am being slapped down because of
> some perception about me personally.
Why do you think you are being slapped down?
I don't see it.. Everyone thinks you're sexy.
The best posters to poetry (in their mind) are enemies
with each other. One is a worm farmer, and the other
doesn't know Phi is associated with the Fibonacci series.
The day people like this impress me is the day I stop
liking Lobster. How could such idiots slap you down?
Both of these morons call mikey a God and insist that I'm
gay and have had sex with chuck, and use it in attempts
to humiliate a demonstrably heterosexual (though autosexual)
gimp.
I don't feel in the least slapped down by the likes
of either of the idiots.
I encourage them to "have fun" and act as moronic
as they like.
>
> Maybe I'm being judged on my own merits, but it's more likely that it
> has little if anything to do with me at all.
No, it is all about poetry and talent.
Everyone loves you as long as you don't show too much.
mikey, that shows none, they call a God.
I'm a bad-boi...
--
http://Clitin.Com *The Pussy Poetry Palace*
*** MORE THAN 150 meg FREE Usenet PORNetry ***
(in > 80 "hands free" slideshows)
with poetry from famous poets (soon)
>
> Leisha
>
Stuart Leichter
lei...@decisionresearch.org wrote on 11/21/05 1:54 PM:
> We certainly can. The best critics are mean enough to be honest. I will
> post something so that you can viciously tear it to pieces, okay?
If you're taking requests, Leisha, may I suggest a camisole?
--
Stuart
Leisha
> "Leisha" <lei...@decisionresearch.org> wrote in message news:1132596648.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >I think this is what Will was trying to say. But rather than comparing
> > this newsgroup atmosphere to the horrors now showing on the stage of
> > the world, it feels more like high school to me!
>
> It is the dregs of poets.
>
> A combination of half-illiterates, kooks, and failed writers.
>
> >
> > Did you ever belong in a clique? I never did. So I'm not being slapped
> > down because I'm in the wrong clique, certainly, unless that's a
> > misperception. I must admit that I am being slapped down because of
> > some perception about me personally.
>
> Why do you think you are being slapped down?
> I don't see it.. Everyone thinks you're sexy.
You are sweet.
>
> The best posters to poetry (in their mind) are enemies
> with each other. One is a worm farmer, and the other
> doesn't know Phi is associated with the Fibonacci series.
> The day people like this impress me is the day I stop
> liking Lobster. How could such idiots slap you down?
>
> Both of these morons call mikey a God and insist that I'm
> gay and have had sex with chuck, and use it in attempts
> to humiliate a demonstrably heterosexual (though autosexual)
> gimp
What is it with pretending there's something wrong with gay sex? Sounds
like high school again.
>
> I don't feel in the least slapped down by the likes
> of either of the idiots.
>
> I encourage them to "have fun" and act as moronic
> as they like.
>
> >
> > Maybe I'm being judged on my own merits, but it's more likely that it
> > has little if anything to do with me at all.
>
> No, it is all about poetry and talent.
>
> Everyone loves you as long as you don't show too much.
I think you're right about that. Things are getting way too personal .
. .
Leisha
P.S. You may say I'm sexy but in reality I'm fat. And you say Karla is
fat, but what's wrong with that? Don't you have any fat mamas on your
porn site?
L
Stuart Leichter
at Swe...@BuyTheDozen.krimp wrote on 11/21/05 2:06 PM:
>
> "Leisha" <lei...@decisionresearch.org> wrote in message
> news:1132596648.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> I think this is what Will was trying to say. But rather than comparing
>> this newsgroup atmosphere to the horrors now showing on the stage of
>> the world, it feels more like high school to me!
>
> It is the dregs of poets.
>
> A combination of half-illiterates, kooks, and failed writers.
The best writers try to revive their high-school impulses and compulsions,
or earlier ones if they're able.
>
>>
>> Did you ever belong in a clique? I never did. So I'm not being slapped
>> down because I'm in the wrong clique, certainly, unless that's a
>> misperception. I must admit that I am being slapped down because of
>> some perception about me personally.
>
> Why do you think you are being slapped down?
> I don't see it.. Everyone thinks you're sexy.
She is lewd. There's a difference, Tom. You're sexy.
>
> The best posters to poetry (in their mind) are enemies
> with each other. One is a worm farmer, and the other
> doesn't know Phi is associated with the Fibonacci series.
> The day people like this impress me is the day I stop
> liking Lobster. How could such idiots slap you down?
This is the first time you've spelled 'Fibonacci' right, isn't it? No wonder
no one knew what you were talking about.
>
> Both of these morons call mikey a God and insist that I'm
> gay and have had sex with chuck, and use it in attempts
> to humiliate a demonstrably heterosexual (though autosexual)
> gimp.
The picture needs a caption contest.
"What happens in Tom, stays in Tom" -- what do you think?
>
> I don't feel in the least slapped down by the likes
> of either of the idiots.
>
> I encourage them to "have fun" and act as moronic
> as they like.
>
>>
>> Maybe I'm being judged on my own merits, but it's more likely that it
>> has little if anything to do with me at all.
>
> No, it is all about poetry and talent.
True, though you are a lightweight.
>
> Everyone loves you as long as you don't show too much.
Apparently ou're a very immature lightweight.
Leisha
Leisha
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Leisha" <lei...@decisionresearch.org> wrote in message news:1132601002.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> A. Jinn (AJ) wrote:
>> "Leisha" <lei...@decisionresearch.org> wrote in message news:1132596648.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> >I think this is what Will was trying to say. But rather than comparing
>> > this newsgroup atmosphere to the horrors now showing on the stage of
>> > the world, it feels more like high school to me!
>>
>> It is the dregs of poets.
>>
>> A combination of half-illiterates, kooks, and failed writers.
>>
>> >
>> > Did you ever belong in a clique? I never did. So I'm not being slapped
>> > down because I'm in the wrong clique, certainly, unless that's a
>> > misperception. I must admit that I am being slapped down because of
>> > some perception about me personally.
>>
>> Why do you think you are being slapped down?
>> I don't see it.. Everyone thinks you're sexy.
>
> You are sweet.
Don't tell anyone. I'm already too popular.
>>
>> The best posters to poetry (in their mind) are enemies
>> with each other. One is a worm farmer, and the other
>> doesn't know Phi is associated with the Fibonacci series.
>> The day people like this impress me is the day I stop
>> liking Lobster. How could such idiots slap you down?
>>
>> Both of these morons call mikey a God and insist that I'm
>> gay and have had sex with chuck, and use it in attempts
>> to humiliate a demonstrably heterosexual (though autosexual)
>> gimp
>
> What is it with pretending there's something wrong with gay sex? Sounds
> like high school again.
I feel for the gays, in that gayness,
to so many, is seen as /uncool/.
>>
>> I don't feel in the least slapped down by the likes
>> of either of the idiots.
>>
>> I encourage them to "have fun" and act as moronic
>> as they like.
>>
>> >
>> > Maybe I'm being judged on my own merits, but it's more likely that it
>> > has little if anything to do with me at all.
>>
>> No, it is all about poetry and talent.
>>
>> Everyone loves you as long as you don't show too much.
>
> I think you're right about that. Things are getting way too personal .
> . .
I came to the poetry groups to learn poetry. It is a hobby.
I run into a bunch of babies... (well... plus I'm crazy)
(and others, of course...)
>
> Leisha
>
> P.S. You may say I'm sexy but in reality I'm fat. And you say Karla is
> fat, but what's wrong with that? Don't you have any fat mamas on your
> porn site?
Actually it is one of my favorite /kinks/twists/whatever...
I just say it to Karla because John Limmon lives on.
Not sure what is on the current site
but the database is full of (my /category/ is) plumpers.
Maybe I'll select a folder for an artsy treatment.
Currently I've only been mixing/masking pics within a folder
but clearly, there is no limit. I could source and randomize
or track through multiple folders. Add text (poetry) embossed
on any of it... I love my power. :)
I want to put a computer generated voice behind the pics
of the slideshow, driven by a sexy script, with some midi
generated music.
...or perhaps you would like to read? :)
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Stuart Leichter" <leic...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:BFA78D2F.42020%leic...@bellsouth.net...
> in article 438211cc$0$20305$8f2e...@news.shared-secrets.com, A. Jinn (AJ)
> at Swe...@BuyTheDozen.krimp wrote on 11/21/05 2:06 PM:
>
>>
>> "Leisha" <lei...@decisionresearch.org> wrote in message
>> news:1132596648.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>> I think this is what Will was trying to say. But rather than comparing
>>> this newsgroup atmosphere to the horrors now showing on the stage of
>>> the world, it feels more like high school to me!
>>
>> It is the dregs of poets.
>>
>> A combination of half-illiterates, kooks, and failed writers.
>
> The best writers try to revive their high-school impulses and compulsions,
> or earlier ones if they're able.
as though bees knew the brevity of best.
>
>>
>>>
>>> Did you ever belong in a clique? I never did. So I'm not being slapped
>>> down because I'm in the wrong clique, certainly, unless that's a
>>> misperception. I must admit that I am being slapped down because of
>>> some perception about me personally.
>>
>> Why do you think you are being slapped down?
>> I don't see it.. Everyone thinks you're sexy.
>
> She is lewd. There's a difference, Tom. You're sexy.
I think sexy looks OK, but then I've always preferred
by taste.
>
>>
>> The best posters to poetry (in their mind) are enemies
>> with each other. One is a worm farmer, and the other
>> doesn't know Phi is associated with the Fibonacci series.
>> The day people like this impress me is the day I stop
>> liking Lobster. How could such idiots slap you down?
>
> This is the first time you've spelled 'Fibonacci' right, isn't it? No wonder
> no one knew what you were talking about.
I felt the same way about villanelle.
>
>>
>> Both of these morons call mikey a God and insist that I'm
>> gay and have had sex with chuck, and use it in attempts
>> to humiliate a demonstrably heterosexual (though autosexual)
>> gimp.
>
> The picture needs a caption contest.
>
> "What happens in Tom, stays in Tom" -- what do you think?
Better with mikey's face, and a variety of fuckers behind him.
(and an assortment of captions....)
You think too small because you are a pissant, stu.
>
>>
>> I don't feel in the least slapped down by the likes
>> of either of the idiots.
>>
>> I encourage them to "have fun" and act as moronic
>> as they like.
>>
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm being judged on my own merits, but it's more likely that it
>>> has little if anything to do with me at all.
>>
>> No, it is all about poetry and talent.
>
> True, though you are a lightweight.
No, I am vastly beyond any of you.
Didn't ask to be, and wouldn't make the point except
you are all a bunch of lippy pissants.
The creativity associated with the creation of
a multi-processing binary Usenet collector, voice controlled
background, batch-processing, image processor makes
your poetry thingies look like so much pocket lint.
Some pocket lint does look like clouds, though...
Karla
says...
You do know that Dockery, Peterson or Bishop may think that you've chosen to
side with Gamble or Ross, don't you, after saying something like that?
You do know that I pointed out poetic devices because you initially wrote that
the poem wasn't poetic? Did you think I was vicious for doing that? Why is it
wrong to make you back up the vague criticism "not poetic"?
I know, I know, I should be happy that you didn't just call it crap and leave it
at that but you gave me such hope for a good interchange that I just had to push
it. For the record, it's been a long time since I've received a good trouncing
on r.a.p - there are people capable of it but they spend little time here for
good reason. Or they're busy fishing. I'm really trying hard to stay away from
that this round. I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
Karla
Leisha
That would be cool. But you'll have to wait till December, when I'll be
free of my academic obligations.
Leisha
Stuart Leichter
at Swe...@BuyTheDozen.krimp wrote on 11/21/05 3:59 PM:
Okay, okay. Unless you've omitted some very significant info from your
online CV and autobiography, you're majorly less-accomplished or successful
than many people who post here.
Plus, from all accounts, it appears that there are posters here whose
hobbies include writing code to run programs, and who are better at it than
you. (I wouldn't know, but, from all accounts, I should believe any except
yours.)
What, if anything, do you make of people who get wet or boners when they
hear about program code? Do you check out the look on their face? Do their
nipples get hard? Do they yell out "Zero god!" insted of "O god!" when they
come? Do they ever interrupt and ask why a backslash goes forward in the
code's direction?
Stuart Leichter
lei...@decisionresearch.org wrote on 11/21/05 2:58 PM:
> & you say I'm lewd.
>
> Leisha
>
"'Here, Bullet' won this year's Beatrice Hawley Award ... and came out last
week. ... [Brian] Turner -- also known as Sergeant T. or 'the professor' --
was a team leader in the first Stryker brigade to be sent into the combat
zone, and was stationed, for much of 2004, near Mosul. He wrote his poems
secretly. People in the Army knew that he had a master's degree, but no one
ever asked him what it was for -- it was an M.F.A in poetry, from the
University of Oregon -- and he saw no reason to advertise it.
Noncommissioned officers, he says, are the 'backbone of the Army,' and 'it's
hard to be hard-nosed if you're writing poetry'. He didn't want his
underlings to think he was writing about 'flowers and stuff like that'...".
(New Yorker, 11/14/05)
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Karla" <kar...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:dltbh...@drn.newsguy.com...
>>How I read poetry. Wow.
But wow, are you stupid. Not to mention fat.
Will Dockery
Karla wrote:
Hell, Karla, even /I/ agree with Ross from time-to-time:
"It's terribly bad, to be frank. In fact, it's laughable goth rubbish.
There's no way to fix such crap, and if this is typical of your work
you need to forget everything you think you know about poetry and start
again from the beginning."
-Peter J. Ross, on the poetry of Barbara's Cat.
"...Over and over again, he's replied as twitchily as a pandora or a
Tommy to serious attempts at critique. That is *not* acceptable in
AAPC, and my impression is that RAPpers don't care for it much either.
In Hammesworld, every word that oozes from his punning pen is better
than anybody's else's words. His facility for comic verse packed with
literary allusions and pseudo-Elizabethan grammatical tropes does not,
in my opinion, make
him a poet. It makes him an automaton capable of generating high-grade
doggerel. The "Severed Head" series showed a little promise, but in the
end it amounted to a big fruitcake stuffed with self-admiring sultanas.
Sure, he makes three very funny posts a week, but that's three out of a
total of a hundred and fifty, most of which either simply don't make
sense or are full of ignorant remarks on every subject that
better-informed people choose to discuss. Oh, and he has a genuinely
kooky inability to write the words "poet" ("pomet") and "poetry"
("poultry") correctly, or to write /three/
consecutive *words* without idiotic /marks/ of emphasis. Mr (not Dr)
Hammes is a dullard and a fraud. Save time by not reading him."
-Peter J. Ross on Uncle Dennis Hammes
"Don't imagine that this is some kind of trivial Usenet flame war in
which
the people who are against "us" can reasonably side with [Michael
Cook?] because he's
also against "us". Net-abuse of this kind affects *all* of us,
whichever "side" we're usually on, and the abuser needs to be
ostracised whether he says flattering things about you or not."
-Peter J. Ross
Gary Gasfly's a worthless burnout, as is well known to all.
--
"The Sun, the hearth of affection and life, pours burning love on the
delighted earth." -Arthur Rimbaud
Karla
says...
>Hell, Karla, even /I/ agree with Ross from time-to-time:
And you often end your opinion on someone like this: "as is well known to all".
As if you can't be on your own side alone.
Karla
Will Dockery
Karla wrote:
> Will Dockery says...
> >Hell, Karla, even /I/ agree with Ross from time-to-time:
>
> And you often end your opinion on someone like this: "as is well known to all".
> As if you can't be on your own side alone.
There's nobody else here, Karla.
So you have something to say in his defense?
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Will Dockery" <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1132615302....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> "It's terribly bad, to be frank. In fact, it's laughable goth rubbish.
> There's no way to fix such crap, and if this is typical of your work
> you need to forget everything you think you know about poetry and start
> again from the beginning."
> -Peter J. Ross, on the poetry of Barbara's Cat.
Heh..
>
> "...Over and over again, he's replied as twitchily as a pandora or a
> Tommy to serious attempts at critique.
What are you talking about. No one has critiqued my poetry in
longer than I can remember. I don't really require or want any
critique, but certainly can' recall getting twitchy.
peewee and others deny I can program and make inane comments
about things they know nothing about. If you think I respond to /that/
twitchily, fine. fuck it.
> That is *not* acceptable in
> AAPC, and my impression is that RAPpers don't care for it much either.
Who cares.
> In Hammesworld, every word that oozes from his punning pen is better
> than anybody's else's words. His facility for comic verse packed with
> literary allusions and pseudo-Elizabethan grammatical tropes does not,
> in my opinion, make
> him a poet. It makes him an automaton capable of generating high-grade
> doggerel. The "Severed Head" series showed a little promise, but in the
> end it amounted to a big fruitcake stuffed with self-admiring sultanas.
I missed it, but he produced plenty of poetry decades ago. I've had
enough of Hammes for now. The worm farming things is still settling in.
> Sure, he makes three very funny posts a week, but that's three out of a
> total of a hundred and fifty, most of which either simply don't make
> sense or are full of ignorant remarks on every subject that
> better-informed people choose to discuss. Oh, and he has a genuinely
> kooky inability to write the words "poet" ("pomet") and "poetry"
> ("poultry") correctly, or to write /three/
> consecutive *words* without idiotic /marks/ of emphasis. Mr (not Dr)
> Hammes is a dullard and a fraud. Save time by not reading him."
> -Peter J. Ross on Uncle Dennis Hammes
As if peewee knows anything, but basically, yes.
peewee is even worse, but it goes downhill from there.
>
> "Don't imagine that this is some kind of trivial Usenet flame war in
> which
> the people who are against "us" can reasonably side with [Michael
> Cook?] because he's
> also against "us". Net-abuse of this kind affects *all* of us,
> whichever "side" we're usually on, and the abuser needs to be
> ostracised whether he says flattering things about you or not."
> -Peter J. Ross
>
> Gary Gasfly's a worthless burnout, as is well known to all.
Quite a number of loser, and then there is me.
--
http://Clitin.Com *The Pussy Poetry Palace*
*** MORE THAN 150 meg FREE Usenet PORNetry ***
(in > 80 "hands free" slideshows)
with poetry from famous poets (soon)
>
Leisha
I didn't say vicious or wrong, good god. Let's start over.
Do you really fish? If so, where?
Leisha
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Leisha" <lei...@decisionresearch.org> wrote in message news:1132608022....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> ...or perhaps you would like to read? :)
>
> That would be cool. But you'll have to wait till December, when I'll be
> free of my academic obligations.
Timeframe is fine... And you would /do it with feeling/?
This is background vocals for wanking, mostly. (though there
are other scripts that are possible, mostly for wanking.)
You OK with that? :)
My thought is to have a seperate window that embeds
Windows Media Player, and has a small listbox
of vocal script choices. That way the wanker could
select his folders and then select his voice (possibly
also a midi).
The voice script would be a several minute loop.
...or it could cycle (randomly) to other voice scripts.
There are numerous categories.
I can possibly liason with websites and /read/ their
short stories.
Will Dockery
"A. Jinn (AJ)" wrote
> "Will Dockery" wrote
In the words of the Cook:
<http://www.sohobarandgrill.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=105>
Michael Cook's Poetry Manifesto
"What an outrageous statement! Even if credible what is to be gained by
surrender?
You think gg wrong prove him wrong, you think a matter out of hand step up
to the plate,
The folks that coward out, here or in rap or any other group, fail both
themselves and those that share in their beliefs. I am living proof of
that philosophy.
When I had my ignorance thrown back in my face, when Ross or Mr. G or
any of
a dozen others tweaked me on the nose I hit the books, I educated
myself!
I refused to lose, to surrender, to adopt a defeatist attitude, to take a
path of least resistance.
My goal is to write one good poem, just one if that means reading
one
or one thousand books then so be it, if that means I must endure off
hand
remarks, the scorn, the ridicule of critics real, supposed or otherwise then
so be it.
Writers, real writers do not hide from reality they define it!
The have not's, can not's, the bored, doe eyed house wife,
the intellectually static, the hanger on will fail, will quit, will
seek the
safety of mediocrity.
You want to be a bear then be a grizzly, be a bad mother fucker
Then you cannot lose, you cannot because even in defeat your loss
is always a gain. Well, confusing but true
mdc"
Will Dockery
"r j thurman" wrote
> "Karla" wrote
> > r j thurman wrote:
> >
> > > Initial impressions on first read:
> >
> > I appreciate you reading this in spite of your motives for
> > commenting as well as your lack of confidence to comment without
> > a sock.
>
> Whatever.
>
> > > This is overwrought and unctuous.
> >
> > I've thought about this comment as it applies to my draft. I'm not
> > yet convinced that it's directed at my draft. The comment is
> > unsupported and taken in context with the rest of your comments
> > seems directed at "them".
>
> "Reviewing" a review of your own material is considered
> extremely bad form. Just say "Thanks," and let it go.
"...Over and over again, he's replied as twitchily as a pandora or a Tommy
to serious attempts at critique. That is *not* acceptable in AAPC, and my
impression is that RAPpers don't care for it much either. In Hammesworld,
every word that oozes from his punning pen is better than anybody's else's
words. His facility for comic verse packed with literary allusions and
pseudo-Elizabethan grammatical tropes does not, in my opinion, make him a
poet."
-PJR
> > > It plods stickily like a Thai ox-cart in spring mud.
> >
> > Are you able to conceive of the notion that I intended that?
>
> "It's not a 'bug;' it's a 'feature,'" eh, Karla?
>
> > [ mega-snip ]
> >
> > > Try again.
> >
> > Even if I didn't want to, I probably would.
> > Once again, I appreciate your commenting whatever your motives are.
>
> You asked for comments, and you got some. That's all.
> It's over.
>
> Speculations about motives are solely in your own mind.
Well /she seD/ she wuz in good company with Uncle Dennis.
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Stuart Leichter" <leic...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:BFA7A930.4202F%leic...@bellsouth.net...
>> Some pocket lint does look like clouds, though...
>
> Okay, okay. Unless you've omitted some very significant info from your
> online CV and autobiography, you're majorly less-accomplished or successful
> than many people who post here.
I would hope so, but all I hear about are losers.
Who has a pilot's license, and 500 hrs flight time around the SF
Bay and up to Seattle? Who has had several yachts, and kink
stories that wilt the daisies? Who architected and lead projects
through major corporations? ...who then sent him around the world?
Who produces shit like: http://Clitin.com/X3
You are attempting to make me laugh, right?
>
> Plus, from all accounts, it appears that there are posters here whose
> hobbies include writing code to run programs, and who are better at it than
> you. (I wouldn't know, but, from all accounts, I should believe any except
> yours.)
Point them out... My jinn.exe and jinnscan.exe are multi-processing
with IPC and triggered by voice control.
I have a program that reads the news using 2 animated,
computer generated talking heads.
Gee, I did the only poetic meter analyser that I found at the time.
(using the best of open-sores dictionaries) Other poetry composition
tools to access online dictionaries.
This is a very partial list.
Who are you referring to, Stu?
>
> What, if anything, do you make of people who get wet or boners when they
> hear about program code? Do you check out the look on their face? Do their
> nipples get hard? Do they yell out "Zero god!" insted of "O god!" when they
> come? Do they ever interrupt and ask why a backslash goes forward in the
> code's direction?
<burp>
Stick to your jazzy poetry, Stu...
Betty Carter's bass will 'uve you for it.
Mikel
(in article <BFA7862F.42012%leic...@bellsouth.net>):
flip, flip, flip. . .
Caccia
Calligramme
Oh, got it.
Camisole: A 3D version of the Calligramme utilizing a modified hourglass
shape.
Mikel
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Karla" <kar...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:dltls...@drn.newsguy.com...
> As if you can't be on your own side alone.
How many chairs does it take for you to be on your own side?
Stuart Leichter
at Swe...@BuyTheDozen.krimp wrote on 11/21/05 9:23 PM:
>
> "Stuart Leichter" <leic...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:BFA7A930.4202F%leic...@bellsouth.net...
>
>
>
>>> Some pocket lint does look like clouds, though...
>>
>> Okay, okay. Unless you've omitted some very significant info from your
>> online CV and autobiography, you're majorly less-accomplished or successful
>> than many people who post here.
>
> I would hope so, but all I hear about are losers.
>
> Who has a pilot's license, and 500 hrs flight time around the SF
> Bay and up to Seattle? Who has had several yachts, and kink
> stories that wilt the daisies? Who architected and lead projects
> through major corporations? ...who then sent him around the world?
> Who produces shit like: http://Clitin.com/X3
>
> You are attempting to make me laugh, right?
You argue that your metaphysical trophies have value, and I understand. Some
(many many) people view experience only for its reminiscence potential. But
here, you would want to write 'led', not "lead", because you are here, Hot
Dog.
>
>
>>
>> Plus, from all accounts, it appears that there are posters here whose
>> hobbies include writing code to run programs, and who are better at it than
>> you. (I wouldn't know, but, from all accounts, I should believe any except
>> yours.)
>
> Point them out... My jinn.exe and jinnscan.exe are multi-processing
> with IPC and triggered by voice control.
>
> I have a program that reads the news using 2 animated,
> computer generated talking heads.
>
> Gee, I did the only poetic meter analyser that I found at the time.
> (using the best of open-sores dictionaries) Other poetry composition
> tools to access online dictionaries.
>
> This is a very partial list.
>
> Who are you referring to, Stu?
As I said, I wouldn't know, and it's only because I don't care. You all
design postmodern pencil sharpeners.
Dennis M. Hammes
>
> There's nobody else here, Karla.
>
> "The Sun, the hearth of affection and life, pours burning love on the
> delighted earth." -Arthur Rimbaud
>
Looks more like, when you can't /find/ a prick to suck for an
"opinion," you hafta dig up a dead one.
That way, it can't object when you say it *agrees* with you.
And all you gotta do is put it in your mouth, and it pours burning
LUUUve on you.
NAFTA know you're doing this, by the way?
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
If a pome falls in the middle of a library and
the Bishop can't read it, does it still say, "Iamb"?
http://scrawlmark.org
Berryman's Legacy
On 2005-11-21 lei...@decisionresearch.org said:
> I think this is what Will was trying to say. But rather than
> comparing this newsgroup atmosphere to the horrors now showing on
> the stage of the world, it feels more like high school to me!
>
> Did you ever belong in a clique? I never did. So I'm not being
> slapped down because I'm in the wrong clique, certainly, unless
> that's a misperception. I must admit that I am being slapped down
> because of some perception about me personally.
>
> Maybe I'm being judged on my own merits, but it's more likely that
> it has little if anything to do with me at all.
>
> Leisha
For further insight, rent a video copy of the film "Romy and
Michelle's High School Reunion."
Will Dockery
Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
> Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > There's nobody else here, Karla.
> >
> > "The Sun, the hearth of affection and life, pours burning love on the
> > delighted earth." -Arthur Rimbaud
>
> Looks more like, when you can't /find/ a prick to suck
Damn Uncle, you're really /into/ this "prick sucking" thing, eh?
--
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Will Dockery" <will_d...@knology.net> wrote in message news:e11ad$43827e09$18d62363$23...@KNOLOGY.NET...
At best, cook is a blustering moron.
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Stuart Leichter" <leic...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:BFA7F594.420B6%leic...@bellsouth.net...
> in article 43827851$0$20266$8f2e...@news.shared-secrets.com, A. Jinn (AJ)
> at Swe...@BuyTheDozen.krimp wrote on 11/21/05 9:23 PM:
>
>>
>> "Stuart Leichter" <leic...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:BFA7A930.4202F%leic...@bellsouth.net...
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Some pocket lint does look like clouds, though...
>>>
>>> Okay, okay. Unless you've omitted some very significant info from your
>>> online CV and autobiography, you're majorly less-accomplished or successful
>>> than many people who post here.
>>
>> I would hope so, but all I hear about are losers.
>>
>> Who has a pilot's license, and 500 hrs flight time around the SF
>> Bay and up to Seattle? Who has had several yachts, and kink
>> stories that wilt the daisies? Who architected and lead projects
>> through major corporations? ...who then sent him around the world?
>> Who produces shit like: http://Clitin.com/X3
>>
>> You are attempting to make me laugh, right?
>
> You argue that your metaphysical trophies have value, and I understand.
I didn't mention that I lived in a Yoga Ashram for 9 months, graduated
from the Berkeley Psychic Institute, read the Uratia book, attended meditation
seminars, have a good friend that knows the Dalai Lama etc...
> Some
> (many many) people view experience only for its reminiscence potential.
You talked "accomplishment and success". Clearly all relative terms
but relative to the posters here that call me a loser --- I think I make you
all look like lame idiots.
> But
> here, you would want to write 'led', not "lead", because you are here, Hot
> Dog.
It is true, but if I got serious about writing (words), a failed writer is pretty cheap
to hire.
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Plus, from all accounts, it appears that there are posters here whose
>>> hobbies include writing code to run programs, and who are better at it than
>>> you. (I wouldn't know, but, from all accounts, I should believe any except
>>> yours.)
>>
>> Point them out... My jinn.exe and jinnscan.exe are multi-processing
>> with IPC and triggered by voice control.
>>
>> I have a program that reads the news using 2 animated,
>> computer generated talking heads.
>>
>> Gee, I did the only poetic meter analyser that I found at the time.
>> (using the best of open-sores dictionaries) Other poetry composition
>> tools to access online dictionaries.
>>
>> This is a very partial list.
>>
>> Who are you referring to, Stu?
>
> As I said, I wouldn't know, and it's only because I don't care. You all
> design postmodern pencil sharpeners.
O, then you were just kidding?
Until you produce names and they say something, I'll assume
I'm the most successful and accomplished person posting to poetry.
My chosen area, in which I've invested the most time
is in computer UI's that cover complex areas of technology.
(Oracle Replication, Ingres Application Generation, now...
batch image processing/ template generation)
The above shit pays big bucks.
Even as a gifted programmer(flunky).
At least it did in the '90's. :)
What stories of any success have we heard here... Oh yes, Sheard
was shortlisted for a piddly $16K prize that he didn't win, and he
didn't announce that he didn't win. (at least that is my assumption)
Rather sleazy if you ask me (to not announce that he lost, after
announcing that he was shortlisted). Might be nice to check out
the winner if possible online, or even the drivel that Sheard entered,
but didn't happen... Better for him to STFU until
he actually wins something, but whatever. Poetry is comical in its
need to pump frail egos of dickless poets.
Will is more interesting in that he succeeds in satisfying
a live audience regularly. And with material that would kill
hardy flowers.
Would better poetry do any better for Will?
...the humor of it all is "blowin in the wind"
>
>>
>>>
>>> What, if anything, do you make of people who get wet or boners when they
>>> hear about program code? Do you check out the look on their face? Do their
>>> nipples get hard? Do they yell out "Zero god!" insted of "O god!" when they
>>> come? Do they ever interrupt and ask why a backslash goes forward in the
>>> code's direction?
>>
>> <burp>
>>
>> Stick to your jazzy poetry, Stu...
I mean that.
Barbara's Cat
<cyt...@my-deja.com> said:
>
> Barbara's Cat wrote:
> > <cyt...@my-deja.com> said:
> >
> > > Barbara's Cat wrote:
> > > > Stupid No-Balls Will Dockery said:
> > > >
> > > > > Stuart Leichter wrote:
> > > > > > > From: "Will Dockery"> > Karla wrote:
> > > > > > >> "Leisha" wrote:
> > > > > > >>> r j thurman wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Initial impressions on first read:
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> I appreciate you reading this in spite of your motives for
> > > > > > >>>>> commenting as well as your lack of confidence to comment without
> > > > > > >>>>> a sock.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Whatever.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> This is overwrought and unctuous.
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> I've thought about this comment as it applies to my draft. I'm not
> > > > > > >>>>> yet convinced that it's directed at my draft. The comment is
> > > > > > >>>>> unsupported and taken in context with the rest of your comments
> > > > > > >>>>> seems directed at "them".
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> "Reviewing" a review of your own material is considered
> > > > > > >>>> extremely bad form. Just say "Thanks," and let it go.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Yes. This thread got weird, but what was weird about it was that the
> > > > > > >>> poet isn't one of those knee-jerk defensive types who posts something
> > > > > > >>> for comment only to pounce on every passer-by. Instead she accepted
> > > > > > >>> some criticism graciously but rejected some with malice.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Perhaps our posters are becoming a bit more refined?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I see, you think that we post poems in a vacuum. We pretend that we don't
> > > > > > >> read certain posters in other threads. We pretend that we know nothing of
> > > > > > >> their intentions. We ignore their "extremely bad form" elsewhere.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Depends on which side of the fence the posters are on, as everyone
> > > > > > > knows.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > R U Dockery the infamous xposter? Y did U xpost that? U didn't even include
> > > > > > the original work.
> > > > >
> > > > > Because it was long since snipped
> > > >
> > > > What?! You crossposted it because "it was snipped"?
> > > > That's one the stupidest reasons you've ever given.
> > >
> > > "Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy"
>
> > "Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler"
>
> Is that your favorite book?
No.
You missed the relevant point.
It's in the book's title.
Do not pass Go.
Do not collect $200.
Go directly to jail.
While there, think original.
--
Cm~
Peter J Ross
<Swe...@BuyTheDozen.krimp> wrote in alt.arts.poetry.comments:
> "Stuart Leichter" <leic...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:BFA7F594.420B6%leic...@bellsouth.net...
>> in article 43827851$0$20266$8f2e...@news.shared-secrets.com, A.
>> Jinn (AJ) at Swe...@BuyTheDozen.krimp wrote on 11/21/05 9:23 PM:
>>
>>>
>>> "Stuart Leichter" <leic...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>> news:BFA7A930.4202F%leic...@bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>>>> Some pocket lint does look like clouds, though...
>>>>
>>>> Okay, okay. Unless you've omitted some very significant info from
>>>> your online CV and autobiography, you're majorly
>>>> less-accomplished or successful than many people who post here.
>>>
>>> I would hope so, but all I hear about are losers.
>>>
>>> Who has a pilot's license, and 500 hrs flight time around the SF
>>> Bay and up to Seattle? Who has had several yachts, and kink
>>> stories that wilt the daisies? Who architected and lead projects
>>> through major corporations? ...who then sent him around the
>>> world? Who produces shit like: http://Clitin.com/X3
>>>
>>> You are attempting to make me laugh, right?
>>
>> You argue that your metaphysical trophies have value, and I
>> understand.
>
> I didn't mention that I lived in a Yoga Ashram for 9 months,
> graduated from the Berkeley Psychic Institute, read the Uratia book,
> attended meditation seminars, have a good friend that knows the
> Dalai Lama etc...
Hands up anybody who thinks Tosser has (a) read a book or (b) has a
friend.
Note 1: _Frontpage for Dummies_ doesn't count as a book.
Note 2: Chuck Lysaght doesn't count as a friend. It was just physical.
PJR :-)
--
Nemo hibericam exspectat inquisitionem.
alt.usenet.kooks award-winners and FAQ:
<http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/>
Barbara's Cat
> all I hear about are losers.
Tommy's world is an ugly world, eh, Tommy?
--
Cm~
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Peter J Ross" <p...@kookbusters.org> wrote in message news:slrndo660...@nntp.petitmorte.net...
It is hard going down so fast, isn't it.
I came back for a few months and
there you are....
And look:
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Leisha" <lei...@decisionresearch.org> wrote in message news:1132596212.1...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I'm just not paying attention. I don't tend to remember, really, what
> people say from one thread to another. I ignore their bad form. I am
> someone's mother, and I advise them on etiquette, but come on, A. Jinn
> knows that it's rude to call someone a fat bitch
Yes, otherwise what is the point?
It is especially effective when they are actually obese.
> & what good would it
> do for me to point that out?
It is rude to call me legless and to assert I have gay interest
in chuck or deny the simple facts of my life.
These fuckwits have been at it for years.
>
> Anyway, which fence, Will? I think that some people's criticism is more
> readily accepted than others because of how the original poster
> perceives them or their newsgroup history. But can't any one of us
> change, be kind in a moment? Those are the moments, the people I turn
> to & recognize. Otherwise I usually ignore them.
>
> Leisha
It matters little... Almost no one can
produce poetry worth shit even if they
labored on it for weeks, and stupid
people spend less time than most.
What advice do you think any of the fuckwits here could have
given Dylan Thomas?
"Poetry critique" is a euphemism for publishing in the only place
that will take it. Usenet is the bottom.
I love it.
Peter J Ross
<Swe...@BuyTheDozen.krimp> wrote in rec.arts.poems:
> What advice do you think any of the fuckwits here could have
> given Dylan Thomas?
Probably better advice than you gave to Alexander Pope (1688-1744).
<http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/6a69ce952d864c33?dmode=source>
"Hi Alexander, I'm new here"
"[the] language is archaic"
"this scans hex?"
"Thanks for the read, hope to see more!"
*chortle*
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Peter J Ross" <p...@kookbusters.org> wrote in message news:slrndo700...@nntp.petitmorte.net...
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:41:01 -0800, A. Jinn (AJ)
> <Swe...@BuyTheDozen.krimp> wrote in rec.arts.poems:
>
>> What advice do you think any of the fuckwits here could have
>> given Dylan Thomas?
>
> Probably better advice than you gave to Alexander Pope (1688-1744).
>
> <http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/6a69ce952d864c33?dmode=source>
>
> "Hi Alexander, I'm new here"
>
> "[the] language is archaic"
>
> "this scans hex?"
>
> "Thanks for the read, hope to see more!"
>
> *chortle*
Al didn't come back, sadly you did...
You can change that any time by:
fucking off and dying, honest...
Otherwise, be fucked by me.
See this, moron:
...although some of the new ones
REALLY kick:
http://Clitin.Com/Casey - the effect, and ghosting is amazing
http://Clitin.Com/Chmi - pretty wild shit...
http://Clitin.Com/AshleyLauren - totally insane...
Will Dockery
Leisha wrote:
> I'm just not paying attention. I don't tend to remember, really, what
> people say from one thread to another. I ignore their bad form. I am
> someone's mother, and I advise them on etiquette, but come on, A. Jinn
> do for me to point that out?
I'll point out here that it was Karla and her fellow thugs that began
the sneering rudeness... years before most of us even arrived. It was
the method they used to drive Sharon McElroy and countless others away,
so it was a method proven to work.
It seems to've blown up in their faces this time, though.
> Anyway, which fence, Will? I think that some people's criticism is more
> readily accepted than others because of how the original poster
> perceives them or their newsgroup history. But can't any one of us
> change, be kind in a moment? Those are the moments, the people I turn
> to & recognize. Otherwise I usually ignore them.
The endless fighting, name calling and responses in kind have become
boring but there's apparently no end in sight.
It'd be a refreshing change of pace if we could drop all that for a
week or two and treat each other like human beings, et cetera.
--
Scribbler
>The endless fighting, name calling and responses in kind have become
>boring but there's apparently no end in sight.
>It'd be a refreshing change of pace if we could drop all that for a
>week or two and treat each other like human beings, et cetera
Well said Will. It isn't going to happen of course. For some USENET
is the only avenue for communication. They are fundamentally incapable
of communicating at any other level and Usenet is a good way to hit
back. I believe that most of them have been bullied at some time or
other and this is their way of striking back. Misguided of course.
David H
Will Dockery
Yeah, in real life these are the types I see hunched over at the back
of the bar or at the billards area mumbling into their drink about the
performers on the stage: "Yeah, my songs are better..." but they never
seem to manage to sign up for a spot.
I should tell 'em about Google Groups tonight..! Heh.
A. Jinn (AJ)
"Will Dockery" <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1132694449.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Leisha wrote:
>> I'm just not paying attention. I don't tend to remember, really, what
>> people say from one thread to another. I ignore their bad form. I am
>> someone's mother, and I advise them on etiquette, but come on, A. Jinn
>> knows that it's rude to call someone a fat bitch & what good would it
>> do for me to point that out?
>
> I'll point out here that it was Karla and her fellow thugs that began
> the sneering rudeness... years before most of us even arrived. It was
> the method they used to drive Sharon McElroy and countless others away,
> so it was a method proven to work.
>
> It seems to've blown up in their faces this time, though.
Phuque... I'm still using OE... Just wait.
>
>> Anyway, which fence, Will? I think that some people's criticism is more
>> readily accepted than others because of how the original poster
>> perceives them or their newsgroup history. But can't any one of us
>> change, be kind in a moment? Those are the moments, the people I turn
>> to & recognize. Otherwise I usually ignore them.
>
> The endless fighting, name calling and responses in kind have become
> boring but there's apparently no end in sight.
jr seemed to go away, don't give up hope.
I think the idiots are leaving. :)
Whatever I can do to help...
I told you long ago that ignoring him would make him go away
fastest, but whatever...
>
> It'd be a refreshing change of pace if we could drop all that for a
> week or two and treat each other like human beings, et cetera.
I'm so tolerant of morons that I make myself sick.
Wank with IE or fuck yourself...
--
http://Clitin.Com *The Pussy Poetry Palace*
*** MORE THAN 150 meg FREE Usenet PORNetry ***
(in > 80 "hands free" slideshows)
with poetry from famous poets (soon)
>
Stuart Leichter
Dockery at will.d...@gmail.com wrote on 11/22/05 4:20 PM:
>
> Leisha wrote:
>> I'm just not paying attention. I don't tend to remember, really, what
>> people say from one thread to another. I ignore their bad form. I am
>> someone's mother, and I advise them on etiquette, but come on, A. Jinn
>> knows that it's rude to call someone a fat bitch & what good would it
>> do for me to point that out?
>
> I'll point out here that it was Karla and her fellow thugs that began
> the sneering rudeness... years before most of us even arrived. It was
> the method they used to drive Sharon McElroy and countless others away,
> so it was a method proven to work.
Ahem. As you say, it was before your time, when you could not have been a
witness. Are you relying on astral projection for what you "point out"
above?
>
> It seems to've blown up in their faces this time, though.
"Their" being Karla and her fellow thugs. What are you trying to say, Will?
That you are the latest McElroy?
>
>> Anyway, which fence, Will? I think that some people's criticism is more
>> readily accepted than others because of how the original poster
>> perceives them or their newsgroup history. But can't any one of us
>> change, be kind in a moment? Those are the moments, the people I turn
>> to & recognize. Otherwise I usually ignore them.
>
> The endless fighting, name calling and responses in kind have become
> boring but there's apparently no end in sight.
No end in sight when it's endless. When you're right, you're right, Will;
and you're right.
>
> It'd be a refreshing change of pace if we could drop all that for a
> week or two and treat each other like human beings, et cetera.
>
Never surrender!