Trak Rak / PJR / c&c

[Peter J Ross]

Trak Rak
--------

Ops ara h'op spoi pheu pheu kottoin;
ops ara h'op spoi pheu.

Trak rak. Trak rak. Trak rak and a purple bird
to peck the monumental dead of Marathon;
the Spartans came too late and so come she.
Pheu phettoi! Pheu pheidzômen long long gone.

Ops ara h'op spoi pheu pheu kottoin;
ops ara h'op spoi pheu.



PJR, 2011-12-19

[the messenjah]

Sucks. Try making your doggerel make sense. Dumbass.

[iamb]

Peter J Ross <p...@patchword.com> wrote:

Peter, who are the people you want to be
amused/amazed/enlightened/entertained by work like this? Just who is your
intended audience? It sure ain't scholars, or aficianados of Herodotus or
poetry. If you were running a graduate level poetry workshop, what would
you say to the person who presented this piece?

Or is it pure provocation? just so you know, I'm not provoked. I am puzzled
– not by the work, which reads more like first notes for a poem than
anything close to realization – but by just what you hoped to accomplish by
presenting this to people who don't know you, many of whom (but not me, not
yet) are predisposed to dislike you and your work, and the rest, exactly
like all the people who don't know you but who do read and sometimes buy
poetry, who really want to like more kinds of poems and have come to
a.a.p.c in search of insight into how such things are made and read by
others, and who find this half-made thing thrown in their faces with no
context but the utter nastiness which characterizes the majority of the
posts here – including the responses I've seen to this piece.

If, as you implied in a reply to a post of mine, you are also dismayed by
the character of much of the posting here, why not work to improve that
situation instead of participating in it and deliberately inviting more of
the same?

[Peter J Ross]

In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon, 19 Dec 2011 17:03:01 -0800 (PST),

It seems that I don't write the kind of thing that dying paedophiles
want to read. How sad.


--
PJR :-)
μέτρα φυλάσσεσθαι: καιρὸς δ' ἐπὶ πᾶσιν ἄριστος. (Hesiod)

[Peter J Ross]

In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:01:35 -0600, iamb
<mand...@mikesnider.org> wrote:

<...>

> Peter, who are the people you want to be
> amused/amazed/enlightened/entertained by work like this?

I certanly don't write for misogynistic doggerel-scribbling wankers
who think Allen Ginsberg was something other than a floaty turd in the
lavatory bowl of modern pseudo-literature, that's for sure.

Fuck off and die, Dreckery-clone.

<envious whining snipped>

[Peter J Ross]

In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 21 Dec 2011 02:45:27 -0800 (PST),
Hieronymous707 <hierony...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Good morning, Mike.
>
> I think we see what we are predisposed to see, but please accept my
> apology as I accept responsibility for whatever nastiness my
> commentary may express or exhibit. I'm certainly responsible for the
> majority of the posts here, including one to this piece. I really
> gave it some thought, and didn't mean to be seen as being mean at all,
> which is why I made my crit of the piece sound the way it does, kind
> of like complete nonsense, only not completely nonsensical. LOL.

Your "crit" was worthless, and not really worth replying to - just
like all your other posts - but the idea that it was "nasty" is
hilarious.

All Snider's posts are hilarious, in fact. He appears to be living in
a fluffy little world of his own.

[Peter J Ross]

In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:23:27 -0800 (PST),
Hieronymous707 <hierony...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Trak Rak is claptrap that speaks weakly of spurned Greeks seeking
> other cheek turning brothers.

Neither the alliteration nor the assonance in your text seems poetical
to me, but thanks for trying to do something other than expressing
horror at the thought that somebody might be educated and be writing
for educated readers.

The "nonsense" words and the way they're put together owe a lot to
Aristophanes, and they have no denotative meaning that I'm aware of.
They're just some entertaining sounds that can be adequately (but not
necessarily) pronounced as if they were transliterated Greek.

[George Dance]

On Dec 21, 3:36 pm, Peter J "I'm a Real Poet!" Ross

<p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:01:35 -0600, iamb
>

> <mando...@mikesnider.org> wrote:
>
>
> > Peter, who are the people you want to be
> > amused/amazed/enlightened/entertained by work like this?
>
> I certanly don't write for misogynistic doggerel-scribbling wankers
> who think Allen Ginsberg was something other than a floaty turd in the
> lavatory bowl of modern pseudo-literature, that's for sure.

Actually that's technically true, since you certainly don't write
period. You must be taking how-to-be-dishonest-without-actually-lying
lessons from She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named.

> Fuck off and die, Dreckery-clone.
>
> <envious whining snipped>
>

Interesting. Criticizing one of your Brownings (during your last hit
and run a month ago) made him a "Dreckery-clone." Criticizing a second
one, now, makes him "envious." How many must he criticize to become a
"plagiarist"? (In my case, I think it was four, but I might be
misremembering.) And how many does he have to criticize before he
becomes a "pedophile"?

[George Dance]

On Dec 19, 8:03 pm, the messenjah <theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>
wrote:

Yeah; it was all Greek to me, too.

[iamb]

On 2011-12-21 20:36:48 +0000, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> said:

> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:01:35 -0600, iamb
> <mand...@mikesnider.org> wrote:
>
> <...>
>
>> Peter, who are the people you want to be
>> amused/amazed/enlightened/entertained by work like this?
>
> I certanly don't write for misogynistic doggerel-scribbling wankers
> who think Allen Ginsberg was something other than a floaty turd in the
> lavatory bowl of modern pseudo-literature, that's for sure.
>
> Fuck off and die, Dreckery-clone.
>
> <envious whining snipped>

What on earth makes you think I envy anything about you, Peter? And
what makes you think your opinion of me matters to anyone at all?

[Will Dockery]

On Dec 21, 3:36 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:01:35 -0600, iamb
>

> <mando...@mikesnider.org> wrote:
>
> <...>
>
> > Peter, who are the people you want to be
> > amused/amazed/enlightened/entertained by work like this?
>
> I certanly don't write for misogynistic doggerel-scribbling wankers
> who think Allen Ginsberg was something other than

Wow, Pete, your jealousy of the universally admired & respected
American poet Allen Ginsberg is noted, unfortunately for you.

--
Shadowville All-Stars 2012:
http://soundcloud.com/will-dockery

[iamb]

Hieronymous707 <hierony...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Dec 21, 11:52 pm, iamb <mich...@mikenotthissnider.org> wrote:
>> On 2011-12-21 20:36:48 +0000, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> said:
>>
>>> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:01:35 -0600, iamb

>>> <mando...@mikesnider.org> wrote:
>>
>>> <...>
>>
>>>> Peter, who are the people you want to be
>>>> amused/amazed/enlightened/entertained by work like this?
>>
>>> I certanly don't write for misogynistic doggerel-scribbling wankers
>>> who think Allen Ginsberg was something other than a floaty turd in the
>>> lavatory bowl of modern pseudo-literature, that's for sure.
>>
>>> Fuck off and die, Dreckery-clone.
>>
>>> <envious whining snipped>
>>
>> What on earth makes you think I envy anything about you, Peter? And
>> what makes you think your opinion of me matters to anyone at all?
>

> LOL. OMFG. Frickin' Literalists don't ever seem to know how to take
> a frickin' compliment, much less how to respond to one.


Curse or blessing, it's just noise
Escaped from Pandemonium:
The mad think us their toys
And Hell to be Elysium.

[Will Dockery]

On Dec 22, 2:18 pm, Hieronymous707 <hieronymous...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The primary purpose of Peter's post was to portray poetical
> polemicist, implausible as that may sound.

We know all about polecats down here in hicksville...

--
Stopwatch (Time Demands) Vocals: Will Dockery & Mia Giannini - Early
prototype version from Shadowville All-Stars December 2011 sessions:
http://soundcloud.com/will-dockery/stopwatch-time-demands-v-1

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 <hieronymous...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Will Dockery wrote:
> >Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > > > In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:01:35 -0600, iamb
>
> > > > > <mando...@mikesnider.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > <...>
>
> > > > > > Peter, who are the people you want to be
> > > > > > amused/amazed/enlightened/entertained by work like this?
>
> > > > > I certanly don't write for misogynistic doggerel-scribbling wankers
> > > > > who think Allen Ginsberg was something other than
>
> > > > Wow, Pete, your jealousy of the universally admired & respected
> > > > American poet Allen Ginsberg is noted, unfortunately for you.
>
> > > > --
> > > > Shadowville All-Stars 2012:
>
> >http://soundcloud.com/will-dockery
>
> > > The primary purpose of Peter's post was to portray poetical
> > > polemicist, implausible as that may sound.
>
> > We know all about polecats down here in hicksville...
>
> > --
> > Stopwatch (Time Demands) Vocals: Will Dockery & Mia Giannini - Early
> > prototype version from Shadowville All-Stars December 2011 sessions:

http://soundcloud.com/will-dockery/stopwatch-time-demands-v-1
>

> Hitch held dual citizenship, didn't he?

Alfred?

[Will Dockery]

> LOL, no. I was referring to Chris Hitchens, Pete's hero.

I didn't expect Pete would admit to having a hero.

[Peter J Ross]

In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 21 Dec 2011 23:52:49 -0500, iamb
<mic...@mikenotthissnider.org> wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

<snip unread>

I see the clueless misogynist kook has been reduced to morphing to
evade killfiles (which constitutes net-abuse in the opinion of many
Usenet providers).

How pathetic.

<filters adjusted>

[Will Dockery]

Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>

> I see the clueless misogynist

Yes, Gary pops in from time-to-time.

[the messenjah]

On Dec 23, 12:52 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:

> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 21 Dec 2011 23:52:49 -0500, iamb<mich...@mikenotthissnider.org> wrote:
>
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> <snip unread>
>
> I see the clueless misogynist kook has been reduced to morphing to
> evade killfiles (which constitutes net-abuse in the opinion of many
> Usenet providers).
>
> How pathetic.
>
> <filters adjusted>

Why do you even post here, Pete? No one wants you here. You're a piece
of shit.
>
> --
> PJR :-)
> μέτρα φυλάσσεσθαι: καιρὸς δ' ἐπὶ πᾶσιν ἄριστος. (Hesiod)

[the messenjah]

On Dec 23, 1:54 pm, Hieronymous707 <hieronymous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 23, 1:35 pm, the messenjah <theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>

> I do. He's one of my favorite posters to this group.
That's because you're a dumbass.

[Peter J Ross]

In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri, 23 Dec 2011 10:35:19 -0800 (PST),

the messenjah <theguyo...@veryfast.biz> wrote:

> No one wants you here. You're a piece of shit.

Oh look. It's all about you!


--
PJR :-)
μέτρα φυλάσσεσθαι: καιρὸς δ' ἐπὶ πᾶσιν ἄριστος. (Hesiod)

[George Dance]

On Dec 23, 12:52 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:

> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 21 Dec 2011 23:52:49 -0500, iamb<mich...@mikenotthissnider.org> wrote:
>
> <snip unread>

As usual. When was the last time you actually read criticism from
anyone other than one of your meatpuppets?

>
> I see the clueless misogynist kook has been reduced to morphing to
> evade killfiles

Sounds like you're projecting, ~PJ~. Just because you use different
email addresses to evade killfiles does not mean that everyone else
with more than one has the same motive.

> which constitutes net-abuse in the opinion of many
> Usenet providers).

So Netkop him to his provider, just like you did to me last year (when
you claimed I was emailing you all my usenet posts); and let them
laugh at you, just like my provider laughed at you last year.

>
> How pathetic.
>

How self-referential.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 <hieronymous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Will Dockery wrote:
>> Hieronymous707 <hieronymous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>Will Dockery wrote:
>> > >Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:

>>>>>iamb wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > Peter, who are the people you want to be
> > > > > > > > > > amused/amazed/enlightened/entertained by work like this?
>
> > > > > > > > > I certanly don't write for misogynistic doggerel-scribbling
> > > > > > > > > wankers
> > > > > > > > > who think Allen Ginsberg was something other than
>
> > > > > > > > Wow, Pete, your jealousy of the universally admired & respected
> > > > > > > > American poet Allen Ginsberg is noted, unfortunately for you.
>
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Shadowville All-Stars 2012:
>
> > > > > >http://soundcloud.com/will-dockery
>
> > > > > > > The primary purpose of Peter's post was to portray poetical
> > > > > > > polemicist, implausible as that may sound.
>
> > > > > > We know all about polecats down here in hicksville...
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Stopwatch (Time Demands) Vocals: Will Dockery & Mia Giannini - Early
> > > > > > prototype version from Shadowville All-Stars December 2011 sessions:
>
> > > >http://soundcloud.com/will-dockery/stopwatch-time-demands-v-1
>
> > > > > Hitch held dual citizenship, didn't he?
>
> > > > Alfred?
>
> > > LOL, no.  I was referring to Chris Hitchens, Pete's hero.
>
> > I didn't expect Pete would admit to having a hero.
>

> Pete has and will admit to having many heros. He won't admit to having
> a hiero though.  He'd rather Hignor me.

If he did any of that I suppose I didn't notice...

[iamb]

> On Dec 23, 12:52 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 21 Dec 2011 23:52:49 -0500,
>> iamb<mich...@mikenotthissnider.org> wrote:

And everyone should know that what...@mikenotthissnider.org is just plain
fake, because these days I don't want strangers to see my actual email
address. I used to be more trusting.

Oh, and if you're celebrating today, whoever is reading this, may it be
joyous!

[iamb]

Actually, I end up with different email addys because I regularly use 4
different personal devices, two of them mobile (and each of them on a
different network) plus a number of more or less public access points, and
I'm old and forget which email address I use where. Hell, I have 6 addys at
mikesnider.org which I use for different purposes, and I forget which
purpose belongs to which addy except for the obvious ones like
face...@mikesnider.org, and then there's the 2 different gmail addys
because I forgot I already had the first, my work email, which I think is
the only one I don't use for multiple purposes, 2 (one an alias) from my
primary provider- by golly I'm a brigade.

But I do wonder which circles Peter refers to - the 5th, for the wrathful?
The 8th, for slanderers?

[Will Dockery]

Peter J Ross <p...@patchword.com> wrote:
> Trak Rak
> --------
>
> Ops ara h'op spoi pheu pheu kottoin;
> ops ara h'op

<snipped PJR junk>

A shame you never wrote anything nearly as poetic as your nemisis
Allen Ginsberg, eh PJR?

Allen Ginsberg - Wichita Vortex Sutra:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2Di1zoVFQo

And that really stings, doesn't it?

[Tom Keske]

> Wow, Pete, your jealousy of the universally admired & respected
> American poet Allen Ginsberg is noted, unfortunately for you.

Pete can answer that one, but it would be overstating to say that
Ginsberg was "universally" admired. Anyone in America who speaks
too much truth will be closer to universally hated than univerally admired,
which is why poets should not care about being admired.

It might seem strange, but "Howl" seemed to me excessively
negative and a tad degenerate.

I will always give the man some respect as a poet, though,
because his heart seemed to be in the right place, most of the time,
such as his criticisms of Reagan, CIA, and American foreign policy.

Also, when I first started quoting some references to him, it
was not because I was "fan". I had not read "Howl", at the time.
I noticed a strange thing, that when I Googled instinctively
for odd word combinations like "railroad religion", his name
just kept coming up.

I would not approve of rambling that really, only WAS rambling,
only pretending to mean something. I suspect that the
Merry Pranksters interests in things "paranormal" were not
merely frivolous, and that Ginsberg's ramblings actually were
sometimes touching a deeper vein.


Tom Keske


Ken Kesey, Allen Ginsberg, Jerry Garcia - CIA MK-ULTRA Medical ...
Jul 18, 2009 ... Ken Kesey, while a Wallace Stegner Fellow at Stanford
University (1959-1961),
offered himself as a human guinea pig in an MK-ULTRA ...

ce399.typepad.com/.../ken-kesey-allen-ginsberg-jerry-garcia-cia-mkultra-medical-guinea-pigs.html

Illuminated Poems - Google Books Result
Allen Ginsberg, Eric Drooker - 2006 - 144 pages
... I don't like the Top-bananas that're robbing Guatemala banks blind I
don't
... Anarchists screaming Love Is Free I don't like the CIA they killed John
...
books.google.com/books?isbn=1560259345


The letters of Allen Ginsberg - Google Books Result
Allen Ginsberg, Bill Morgan - 2008 - 468 pages
10% of Indian population in Guatemala has been genocided by government
troops.
... As ever, Allen Ginsberg [Ginsberg's relationship with Orlovsky was ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=0306814633

[Peter J Ross]

In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon, 26 Dec 2011 20:33:15 -0500, Tom

Keske <ptk...@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>
> > Wow, Pete, your jealousy of the universally admired & respected
>> American poet Allen Ginsberg is noted, unfortunately for you.
>
> Pete can answer that one,

In his enthusiasm to crosspost as much and as often as possible,
Dreckery accidentally snecked the bit where I described Allen Ginsberg
as "a floaty turd in the lavatory bowl of modern pseudo-literature", a
phrase of which I'd be prouder if it couldn't be as easily applied to
a dozen other "modern classics".

> but it would be overstating to say that
> Ginsberg was "universally" admired. Anyone in America who speaks
> too much truth

What is truth? How does one speak it? What the fuck has America got to
do with the international newsgroup, AAPC, which is currently mostly
frequented by English-speaking writers who live in Canada (gg), Spain
(Gwyneth) and England (me)?

> will be closer to universally hated than univerally admired,
> which is why poets should not care about being admired.

You seem to have a lot of instructions for poets. Are you one?

> It might seem strange, but "Howl" seemed to me excessively
> negative and a tad degenerate.

You misspelt "moronic" and "undeserving of publication".

> I will always give the man some respect as a poet, though,
> because his heart seemed to be in the right place, most of the time,
> such as his criticisms of Reagan, CIA, and American foreign policy.

I can't imagine anything more likely to ensure the instant death of a
writer's writings than his showing any overty interest in such
trivial, ephemeral details of a mere instant of literary time.

> Also, when I first started quoting some references to him, it
> was not because I was "fan". I had not read "Howl", at the time.
> I noticed a strange thing, that when I Googled instinctively
> for odd word combinations like "railroad religion", his name
> just kept coming up.

Yep. Fools quote other fools *a lot*, and fools are present in their
millions in Google search results.

> I would not approve of rambling that really, only WAS rambling,
> only pretending to mean something. I suspect that the
> Merry Pranksters interests in things "paranormal" were not
> merely frivolous, and that Ginsberg's ramblings actually were
> sometimes touching a deeper vein.

Some kind of supporting evidence for your approval might make you
less boring.

> Tom Keske
>
>
> Ken Kesey, Allen Ginsberg, Jerry Garcia - CIA MK-ULTRA Medical ...
> Jul 18, 2009 ... Ken Kesey, while a Wallace Stegner Fellow at Stanford
> University (1959-1961),
> offered himself as a human guinea pig in an MK-ULTRA ...
>
> ce399.typepad.com/.../ken-kesey-allen-ginsberg-jerry-garcia-cia-mkultra-medical-guinea-pigs.html
>
> Illuminated Poems - Google Books Result
> Allen Ginsberg, Eric Drooker - 2006 - 144 pages
> ... I don't like the Top-bananas that're robbing Guatemala banks blind I
> don't
> ... Anarchists screaming Love Is Free I don't like the CIA they killed John
> ...
> books.google.com/books?isbn=1560259345
>
>
> The letters of Allen Ginsberg - Google Books Result
> Allen Ginsberg, Bill Morgan - 2008 - 468 pages
> 10% of Indian population in Guatemala has been genocided by government
> troops.
> ... As ever, Allen Ginsberg [Ginsberg's relationship with Orlovsky was ...
> books.google.com/books?isbn=0306814633

Wow, you really like drug-addled people, don't you? Not only Ginsberg,
but Ken Kesey and Jerry Garcia too!

Ever tried reading Chaucer, Dunbar, Spenser, Donne or Milton? Or
Robinson, Frost, Pound, Eliot, Williams or Berryman, if dialects of
English other than Recent American are too hard for you?

[Will Dockery]

Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:

>Tom Keske <ptke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > > Wow, Pete, your jealousy of the universally admired & respected
> >> American poet Allen Ginsberg is noted, unfortunately for you.
>
> > Pete can answer that one,
>
> In his enthusiasm

I simply noted the obvious, Pete, which is your "jealousy of your
betters", in this case the universally admired and respected Allen
Ginsberg.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
https://will-dockery-and-friends.soundawesome.com/

[the messenjah]

On Dec 28, 10:19 pm, Will Dockery <will.dock...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Tom Keske <ptke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > > > Wow, Pete, your jealousy of the universally admired & respected
> > >> American poet Allen Ginsberg is noted, unfortunately for you.
>
> > > Pete can answer that one,
>
> > In his enthusiasm
>
> I simply noted the obvious, Pete, which is your "jealousy of your
> betters", in this case the universally admired and respected Allen
> Ginsberg.

Poor Pete. He doesn't work and play well with others. heh.

http://skywriter.dairyland.com

[the messenjah]

On Dec 28, 7:12 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon, 26 Dec 2011 20:33:15 -0500, Tom
>

Pete. You're a fuckhead.

http://skywriter.diaryland.com

> --
> PJR :-)
> μέτρα φυλάσσεσθαι: καιρὸς δ' ἐπὶ πᾶσιν ἄριστος. (Hesiod)

[Will Dockery]

On Dec 28, 10:35 pm, the messenjah <theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>
wrote:

> On Dec 28, 10:19 pm, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
>> >Tom Keske <ptke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > Wow, Pete, your jealousy of the universally admired & respected
> > > >> American poet Allen Ginsberg is noted, unfortunately for you.
>
> > > > Pete can answer that one,
>
> > > In his enthusiasm
>
> > I simply noted the obvious, Pete, which is your "jealousy of your
> > betters", in this case the universally admired and respected Allen
> > Ginsberg.
>
> Poor Pete. He doesn't work and play well with others. heh.

Pete does seem to have a problem with those things, true.

[Will Dockery]

> ce399.typepad.com/.../ken-kesey-allen-ginsberg-jerry-garcia-cia-mkultra-med­ical-guinea-pigs.html

>
> Illuminated Poems - Google Books Result
> Allen Ginsberg, Eric Drooker - 2006 - 144 pages
> ... I don't like the Top-bananas that're robbing Guatemala banks blind I
> don't
> ... Anarchists screaming Love Is Free I don't like the CIA they killed John
> ...
> books.google.com/books?isbn=1560259345
>
> The letters of Allen Ginsberg - Google Books Result
> Allen Ginsberg, Bill Morgan - 2008 - 468 pages
> 10% of Indian population in Guatemala has been genocided by government
> troops.
> ... As ever, Allen Ginsberg [Ginsberg's relationship with Orlovsky was ...
> books.google.com/books?isbn=0306814633

Allen Ginsberg, for 40 years or more knew the score & had the poetics
to back that up.

--
In A Dream I Saved You / Will Dockery & T.O.T.M. (Theatre of the
Mind):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGUZmzvqRP4

[Will Dockery]

On Jan 1, 11:36 am, Hieronymous707 <hieronymous...@gmail.com> wrote:

> That doesn't even make sense

Sure it does, must be another flaw of yours causing a comprehension
problem, eh.

[Will Dockery]

<snip for focus>

> Ginsberg never knew the score.  In fact, he took great pride in not
> know the score. You don't know Ginsberg at all.  Poetics aren't a
> possession.  One cannot 'have' the poetics to do anything, therefore
> Ginsberg never had the poetics to back 'it', up.  Whatever it is.

I'm very familiar with the life and works of Allen Ginsberg, and have
been for close to 40 years now.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> You do not know Ginsberg. LOL.

No, but I did meet Truman Capote near the Atlanta Greyhound station in
1980... or someone pretending to be him.

--
Under the Radar & other story-song-poems:
https://will-dockery-and-friends.soundawesome.com/

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:03:54 -0800 (PST), Hieronymous707
<hierony...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Ginsberg never knew the score. In fact, he took great pride in not
>know the score. You don't know Ginsberg at all. Poetics aren't a
>possession. One cannot 'have' the poetics to do anything, therefore
>Ginsberg never had the poetics to back 'it', up. Whatever it is.

So what IS the score?


--
Steve Hayes
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/litmain.htm
http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius

[Steve Hayes]

On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 18:14:38 -0800 (PST), Hieronymous707
<hierony...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jan 1, 9:07 pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:03:54 -0800 (PST), Hieronymous707
>>

>> <hieronymous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Ginsberg never knew the score.  In fact, he took great pride in not
>> >know the score. You don't know Ginsberg at all.  Poetics aren't a
>> >possession.  One cannot 'have' the poetics to do anything, therefore
>> >Ginsberg never had the poetics to back 'it', up.  Whatever it is.
>>
>> So what IS the score?

>LOL. It's music to my ears, Steve.

Well your sight reading's better than mine.

[Fred Hall]

Will Dockery wrote:
> On Dec 21, 3:36 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> > In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:01:35 -0600, iamb
> >
> > <mando...@mikesnider.org> wrote:
> >
> > <...>
> >
> > > Peter, who are the people you want to be
> > > amused/amazed/enlightened/entertained by work like this?
> >
> > I certanly don't write for misogynistic doggerel-scribbling wankers
> > who think Allen Ginsberg was something other than

>
> Wow, Pete, your jealousy of the universally admired & respected
> American poet Allen Ginsberg is noted, unfortunately for you.

Jealousy? Allen Ginsberg made this statement.

''To label pedophilia as criminal is ridiculous."

Ginsberg was also a member of nambla--the North American Man-Boy Love
Association. He was a child molesting monster deserving zero respect
and is definitely not universally admired.

[the messenjah]

On Jan 2, 10:39 am, Fred Hall <ccccccccccccccc2227...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Fred. You're a fuckhead.

[Will Dockery]

On Jan 2, 10:39 am, Fred Hall <ccccccccccccccc2227...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Dec 21, 3:36 pm, Peter J Ross <p...@example.invalid> wrote:
> > > In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:01:35 -0600, iamb
>
> > > <mando...@mikesnider.org> wrote:
>
> > > <...>
>
> > > > Peter, who are the people you want to be
> > > > amused/amazed/enlightened/entertained by work like this?
>
> > > I certanly don't write for misogynistic doggerel-scribbling wankers
> > > who think Allen Ginsberg was something other than
>
> > Wow, Pete, your jealousy of the universally admired & respected
> > American poet Allen Ginsberg is noted, unfortunately for you.
>
> Jealousy?

As one of America's greatest poets, it certainly seems true.

> Allen Ginsberg made this statement.
>
> ''To label pedophilia as criminal is ridiculous."
>
> Ginsberg was also a member of nambla--the North American Man-Boy Love
> Association. He was a child molesting monster deserving zero respect
> and is definitely not universally admired.

Yes, I actually posted here about this strange event in Ginsberg's
later years... I'll find my original post, which got zero response,
iirc.

--
Gone Too Far / Will Dockery
http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_11596860

[Will Dockery]

On Jan 2, 12:25 pm, Hieronymous707 <hieronymous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 2, 12:04 pm, Will Dockery wrote:

>> On Jan 2, 10:39 am, Fred Hall wrote:
>
> > > > > > Peter, who are the people you want to be
> > > > > > amused/amazed/enlightened/entertained by work like this?
>
> > > > > I certanly don't write for misogynistic doggerel-scribbling wankers
> > > > > who think Allen Ginsberg was something other than
>
> > > > Wow, Pete, your jealousy of the universally admired & respected
> > > > American poet Allen Ginsberg is noted, unfortunately for you.
>
> > > Jealousy?
>
> > As one of America's greatest poets, it certainly seems true.
>
> > > Allen Ginsberg made this statement.
>
> > > ''To label pedophilia as criminal is ridiculous."
>
> > > Ginsberg was also a member of nambla--the North American Man-Boy Love
> > > Association. He was a child molesting monster deserving zero respect
> > > and is definitely not universally admired.
>
> > Yes, I actually posted here about this strange event in Ginsberg's
> > later years... I'll find my original post, which got zero response,
> > iirc.
>
> > --
> > Gone Too Far / Will Dockery

http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_11596860

> LOL.  It wasn't really a strange event, Will.  It was typical Ginsberg.

Not really typical Ginsberg, from what I know of him & his life.

--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery

[the messenjah]

On Jan 2, 11:57 am, Hieronymous707 <hieronymous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 2, 11:46 am, the messenjah <theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>

> > Fred. You're a fuckhead.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Chuck.  You're apparently barely literate.  Why is that?  LOL.

LOL!!!

[Usenet Legends Бobandcaяole]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> On Jan 2, 10:39 am, Fred Hall <ccccccccccccccc2227...@gmail.com>
> wrote:

> > and is definitely not universally admired.- Hide quoted text -

> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>

> LOL. You have evidence that Ginsberg actually molested children?

You've GOT to be kidding!!..when a man states "to label pedophilia
{ie: child molesting"} as criminal is RIDICULOUS" it raises a huge
red flag with most of us. He's surely not somebody you would let
babysit your preteen son to say the least.

''Gay authors and leaders such as Allen Ginsberg, Gayle Rubin, Larry
Kramer (founder of ACT-UP), Pat Califia, Jane Rule, Michael Kearns,
and Michel Foucault have all written in favor of either NAMBLA or man-
boy relationships. Harry Hay, whom many consider the founder of the
American homosexual movement, invited NAMBLA members to march with him
in the 1993 "March on Washington" gay rights parade. He also marched
in the 1986 Los Angeles gay parade wearing a shirt emblazoned with the
words "NAMBLA walks with me."
http://conservapedia.com/Homosexuality_and_pederasty

''Ginsberg was an active pederast''
http://theartblog.org/2009/04/a-poet-a-priest-and-a-political-activist-walk-into-a-room/

Webster sez:

Definition of PEDERAST. : one who practices anal intercourse
especially with a boy. — ped·er·as·tic \ˌpe-də-ˈras-tik\ adjective. —
ped·er·as·ty \ˈpe-də-ˌras-tē\ ...


It really doesn't matter if he actually engaged in plumbing little
boys assholes, the fact that he ADVOCATED it and belonged to NAMBLA is
enough to denounce him for his sick, flawed, perverted character and
turn a blind eye to anything he spewed.


> Call Reuters and the Associated Press!

They already know how depraved he/it was....


> I heard Plato diddled little
> boys too, but I don't have any proof. Let's burn their books, just in
> case. We sure don't want anybody getting the wrong ideas.

We have the RIGHT idea about YOU, Hieronymous Sandusky...

-------

"The eagles been flyin' slow, and the fags been flyin' low. And a
lotta peoples thinkin' that America is fixin' to fall"~~The Charlie
Daniels Band.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|^^^^^^^ |P
| ♥~♥ Usenet Legends bobandcarole ♥~♥ ||”"”;..\___.
| ……_______________| l______________l _||__|…, ]P
“(@)’(@)”""""""*l'(@)l'(@)l """"""""""""""(@)'(@)""""'(@)

̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾ ™bobaлdcaяole -̮̮̃-̃
Copyright © 2011
all rights reserved
News*Justice*Social Commentary
"Bringing you the ultimate uncensored truth since 1997"
___

"Blobby doesn't know about the forgeries I post and get away
with. That morbidly obese coward doesn't even begin to
suspect me"~~ "Pat Magroyne" aka Scott Salberg proves
once and for all he's a deceitful liar. <patmagroyne @null.net>
http://img98.imageshack.us/f/screenshotpatmagroynead.jpg/.
...........................................................................................
"I mean, it's not as if I'm bringing up "ass pounding" all the time,
or doing it right in front of you."~~ Deviant homosexual sodomite
Scott Allen Salberg, aka "Enos Penvy" convicted of battery in
Broward County Florida and currently running from the humiliation
of being outed as a convicted offender to usenet.
.............................................................................................
Image snap of Court and Conviction Record, Scott Salberg.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/ninety7gt/Intelius.jpg
Conclusive evidence of the countless deceptions and forgeries
perpetrated by Scott Allen Salberg:
http://img98.imageshack.us/i/screenshotpatmagroynead.jpg/
...........................................................................................
"That changed, the complaint to IC3 is sent, it was received, I got
the complaint number and password, and we have begun the process.
It is out of my hands. THEY contact the proper authorities down
here. I did make clear that I want this matter handled in Broward
County, in which county I reside. And I've already linked you to the
precedent in matters such as this. Too late. I've already sent the
complaint. I'm going through with this. I've had enough"~~ Just
another Scott Salberg ko0kso0t/meltdown from 2008 and we're
STILL waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.... <LOL~!!!>
............................................................................................

"I think we'll be seeing less of bobandcarole...at least while I'm
around"
~Scott Allen Salberg, Resident Fool & Court Jester of APH
...............................................................................................
#1 pedophile hunter: The Urban Dictionary

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bobandcarole
..........................................................................................
#5 ruiner of usenet.
.......................................................................................
Owner and trainer of Tom Evans aka "mad as a box of frogs"
Tom Evans actual picture: http://yfrog.com/5zt0mevansj
.........................................................................................
"Publicity is publicity, good or bad it's STILL publicity"~ Alice
Cooper
.........................................................................................
"Did you plug the hole yet Daddy?"~~Malia Obama
.........................................................................................
Now I know why they call him tiger, "ELDRICK TONT Woods"??
LMAO!! .
..............................................................................................
"There are 1000 or more reasons for a person INNOCENT of child
molesting to kill themselves"~ Arrested filth-monger frank mccoy
..............................................................................................
"A victory for one pornographer is a victory for all of the human
race"--pedophile "XXX"
...........................................................................................
Image snap of Court and Conviction Record, Scott Salberg.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/ninety7gt/Intelius.jpg
..........................................................................................
"I am so superior to you that you can't even see it"~ScottyFLL
aka "Enos Penvy" aka scott salberg-- <enospenvy @null.net>
violent criminal Broward County Fla.
............................................................................................
"You are not decent citizens, you are sick, degenerate filth. The
fact that you attend church regularly proves it"~W.T.S.--
<m14m @earthlink.net>
................................................................................................
"Only becasue they [bestiality and necrophilia] both ARE,
[harmless] for those who get off on that sort of thing. And what
*they* do is absolutely NONE of my busines NOR any of my concern.
NOR that of anyone else!!"~~Craig Chilton <r @z.com> showcases
why he's designated a ko0k even by those he claims to defend and
shows his ignorance in using a spell checker..
..............................................................................................

Why should I have to press one for English??? This is AMERICA .
<This space for rent>

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> His comment was
> typically Ginsberg shocking, just the kind he'd been making his whole Howling life.

While your comment shows a very superficial knowledge of Ginsberg.

[Ace♠]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> On Jan 2, 1:36 pm, Usenet Legends Бobandcaяole

> > ''Ginsberg was an active pederast''http://theartblog.org/2009/04/a-poet-a-priest-and-a-political-activis...

> >
> > Webster sez:
> >
> > Definition of PEDERAST. : one who practices anal intercourse
> > especially with a boy. — ped·er·as·tic \ˌpe-də-ˈras-tik\ adjective. —
> > ped·er·as·ty \ˈpe-də-ˌras-tē\ ...
> >
> > It really doesn't matter if he actually engaged in plumbing little
> > boys assholes, the fact that he ADVOCATED it and belonged to NAMBLA is
> > enough to denounce him for his sick, flawed, perverted character and
> > turn a blind eye to anything he spewed.
>

> LOL, okay. That fine with me. Feel free to turn your blind eye
> whichever way you don't want to see whatever's not worth looking at in
> your view. I'll just read what I wants to read; hows about that?

I would wager the feds would love to see your hard-drive.

A*
> are you saying that anybody who doesn't turn their blind eye where you
> turn your blind eye must be an advocate of whatever it is you don't
> know anything about because you ain't never seen it, and don't even
> want to because you turned your blind eye to it?

[Mephistopheles]

Hieronymous707 wrote:

> LOL, some people will bet on anything, and I'm sure there's somebody
> around here who'll be happy to take your money. I'm a public person.
> I run a small nonprofit.

A nonprofit what?

> I'm vocal about medical cannabis law
> reform.

You are a drug user-addict also.

> It's a controversial subject. The feds know who I am. I
> know lots of feds too. Dr. Andy Harris is my congressman. He doesn't
> share my views on medical cannabis, but at least we've established a
> dialogue. We're talking, honestly, about real concerns. If you have
> any real concerns in my regards, or about my personal character,
> please state them outright so that I can address them directly.

I think enough concerns have already been raised.

[Tom Keske]

>> I will always give the man some respect as a poet, though,
>> because his heart seemed to be in the right place, most of the time,
>> such as his criticisms of Reagan, CIA, and American foreign policy.

Well, someone needs to do that job, considering that most Americans
are shallow, indifferent, self-indulgent, clueless blowhards, while
their country runs amuck, killing, torturing, installing dictators,
instigating coups, and supporting death squads.

All of which will cause the country to get nuked and collapse
into a fascist heap of an economic basket case, someday
and possibly helping to usher the end of the human species in the process.

Would the demise of the human species be profound enough
to make an aspiring poet such as yourself care about CIA
and American foreign policy? Would love to see your timeless
masterpieces, but there isn't that much time left in the miserable
human duration on this planet.

End Times? It's ABOUT Time.
I thought that this shit was NEVER going to End.

Yee-hah!


>> just kept coming up.
>
> Yep. Fools quote other fools *a lot*, and fools are present in their
> millions in Google search results.
>

Have to write you name on a nuke someday to immortalize you.
What an amusing, pedantic crab-apple you are.

Tom Keske

[Tom Keske]

"the messenjah" <theguyo...@veryfast.biz> wrote in message
news:df13cedc-06c4-4533...@p4g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
> You seem to have a lot of instructions for poets. Are you one?
>

I searched for any actual poetry posted by "messenjah"
but found none. Typical.

Go ahead, show yer stuff.

> Ever tried reading Chaucer, Dunbar, Spenser, Donne or Milton? Or
> Robinson, Frost, Pound, Eliot, Williams or Berryman, if dialects of
> English other than Recent American are too hard for you?

Ezra Pound was a fascist bastard and nearly as batshit crazy
as Ginsberg, but I rather enjoy his ramblings. Small wonder
that a CIA freakazoid like James Jesus Angleton liked
Pound's poetry.

T. S. Eliot was a sanctimonious, gibbering religious freak

I wanted to vomit recent when I read his fawning praise
of Blaise Pascal, the bigot-philosopher who opined such
charming fart-bombs as "There is no Redeemer for the
Jews; they hope for him in vain. There is a Redeemer
only for Christians".

To T.S. Eliot, Pascal "must be studied afresh by men
of every generation" and his "stature is part of the
history of humanity".

I would have shot T.S Eliot and Pascal in cold blood
for their insufferable religious blather, and the world
just have had to make due without his goddam triangle.

Tom Keske

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> LOL. Lucky for us my superficial knowledge

"Show, don't tell." -Dennis M. Hammes

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 08:57:12 -0800 (PST), Hieronymous707
<hierony...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jan 2, 11:46 am, the messenjah <theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>
>wrote:

>> Fred. You're a fuckhead.- Hide quoted text -

>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>

>Chuck. You're apparently barely literate. Why is that? LOL.

While it's nice to see more traffic in alt.books.beatgeneration, it's a pity
the quality of the discussion is so poor, consisting mainly of mindless ad
hominems like the above.

and the even more mindless "Show quoted text" "Hide quoted text" that looks
like a software glitch.




--
Steve Hayes
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/litmain.htm
http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius

[Usenet Legends -̮̮̃-̃ ̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾ ™ ► ♫♫♫ ◄]

Hieronymous707 wrote:

> I'm a vet.

"Don't ask-Don't tell" eh?

> I run a company that trains and employs wounded vets.

Name and address..


> Several of my employees suffer from PTSD, and smoke pot to alleviate
> the symptoms.

What a fuckin' cop-out. If they want to get high why not be honest
about it because marijuana is NOT a good antidepressant compared to
others:

Is marijuana a good antidepressant compared to others, when it comes
to side-affects?

''NO, Your body stops producing natural serotonin in your brain so
that you need dopamine at all times to feel good. Dopamine is one of
the chemicals released while smoking pot that makes you feel good and
it just ends up replacing serotonin. So if you're looking for an
antidepressant, probably not the way to go. Look into simple things
like exercise''

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080101215427AAXGYL3


> I advocate their right to do so on their own time to
> long as it doesn't interfere with their work.

Hell, pass out the syringes and make it a REAL party...

> I appreciate the
> opportunity to address your concerns.

We'll bet you do :-)

> Obviously I have no reservations
> with talking about myself and my people. We can't afford to advertise

WHAT this "company" can't afford to advertize???


> and will take all of the good will and word of mouth we can get.

And of course rolling papers ......

[Tom Keske]

> Here are links to a couple of messenjah poems

Oy, Carumba. 'Nuff said.
messenjah sounds like the Colonel.

I think this is not bad poetry. This is pure Conintelpro.



"Fred Hall" <fkh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0hsmqywu26as009R...@this.is.a.hoot...

> Here are links to a couple of messenjah poems:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.poems/msg/aa523b0420cea54d?output=gplain
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/83da768a8a23864
>
> --
>
>