I just want collaborative source code editing

[n2liquid]

Hi,

I wanted a collaborative source code editor with C++ syntax
highlighting. Basically I wanted a Google Docs for code. It looked
like Bespin could do that, but it went offline and Cloud9 IDE is for
web development only. I tried installing Bespin and failed. What
should I do? Aren't there any pre-made alternatives?

I know Gobby, but it crashes a lot and requires a local server to
work. Other web-based projects like AmyEditor are also buggy.

Is Bespin what I want? And why doesn't Ace come with collaborative
editing bundled (it didn't look like it had to me, at least)?

Cheers.

[Kevin Dangoor]

Hi,

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 4:29 PM, n2liquid <n2.ni...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is Bespin what I want? And why doesn't Ace come with collaborative
editing bundled (it didn't look like it had to me, at least)?

Collaboration requires a server, and the Ace project specifically does not have a server bit. Our focus with Bespin for a good while now has been on the embedded editor case as well.

So, someone *can* build a good collaborative editor with Ace, and I'd imagine it will happen.

Kevin

--
Kevin Dangoor

work: http://mozilla.com/
email: kdan...@mozilla.com
blog: http://www.BlueSkyOnMars.com

[Guilherme Vieira]

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So all I can do is wait or develop it myself? That's terrible, seeing how it was already done (Bespin).

I'd really like to pair program online with a friend from another city, but it just doesn't seem to be possible today. Isn't that a shame? Somebody should have sorted that out already by now.

I was hyped twice, first by Google Wave, now by Bespin, but it seems I'm completely out of luck. None ended the way I wanted.

Will Cloud9 IDE really be for web development-only or is there intent to make it more general?

--
Atenciosamente / Sincerely,
Guilherme ("n2liquid") Vieira

[Kevin Dangoor]

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Guilherme Vieira <n2.ni...@gmail.com> wrote:

So all I can do is wait or develop it myself? That's terrible, seeing how it was already done (Bespin).

Bespin did it with using Mobwrite:

http://code.google.com/p/google-mobwrite/

(Operational transforms are more ideal, and that's the approach that Ethercodes took... though ethercodes looks to be down).
 

I'd really like to pair program online with a friend from another city, but it just doesn't seem to be possible today. Isn't that a shame? Somebody should have sorted that out already by now.

Yes, it is a shame... To be honest, though, most remote collaboration that I've seen takes place asynchronously in revision control systems rather than in real time.

Kevin

[Guilherme Vieira]

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 8:59 PM, Kevin Dangoor <kdan...@mozilla.com> wrote:

Yes, it is a shame... To be honest, though, most remote collaboration that I've seen takes place asynchronously in revision control systems rather than in real time.

Kevin

We use version control, but I wanted to pair for a change. I'm stuck in a project right now and I quite don't get the energy to code alone. Pairing always gets me up to speed, that's why I wanted it now.

And thanks for the info on Mobwrite, it looks interesting.

[Joe Cheng [RStudio]]

Wouldn't you be better off with a true screen-sharing solution (VNC, Remote Desktop, etc.), rather than just a collaborative editor? Where are you going to do your compiling, linking, running, and debugging?

--

[Leen Besselink]

On 02/15/2011 11:59 PM, Kevin Dangoor wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Guilherme Vieira
> <n2.ni...@gmail.com <mailto:n2.ni...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> So all I can do is wait or develop it myself? That's terrible,
> seeing how it was already done (Bespin).
>
>
> Bespin did it with using Mobwrite:
>
> http://code.google.com/p/google-mobwrite/
>
> (Operational transforms are more ideal, and that's the approach that
> Ethercodes took... though ethercodes looks to be down).
>

I do know PiratePad has fixed width font and line-numbers:

http://piratepad.net/

> I'd really like to pair program online with a friend from another
> city, but it just doesn't seem to be possible today. Isn't that a
> shame? Somebody should have sorted that out already by now.
>
>
> Yes, it is a shame... To be honest, though, most remote collaboration
> that I've seen takes place asynchronously in revision control systems
> rather than in real time.
>
> Kevin
>
>
> --
> Kevin Dangoor
>
> work: http://mozilla.com/

> email: kdan...@mozilla.com <mailto:kdan...@mozilla.com>

[Guilherme Vieira]

I can't use that since my coding partner has a bad broadband connection (512 Kbps). Not to mention tabbing through windows would be a mess.

On 02/15/2011 11:59 PM, Kevin Dangoor wrote:

I do know PiratePad has fixed width font and line-numbers:

http://piratepad.net/

PiratePad doesn't have syntax hightlighting, does it? Not to mention it doesn't feature a directory hierarchy, so it would only be useful for snippets.

[Dr. Jam]

It's Java, not C++, but the Java Wiki Integrated Development
Environment (JavaWIDE) does have concurrent editing and has the
capability to run the programs. It uses operational transforms. You
can check it out at http://sandbox.javawide.org. It can even have 20
or so editing the same code at the same time. I use it for teaching
and I'm trying to get more using it for distance education and remote
tutoring.

On Feb 15, 8:08 pm, Guilherme Vieira <n2.nitro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Joe Cheng [RStudio] <j...@rstudio.org>
> Date: Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 10:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [ace] I just want collaborative source code editing
> To: ace-d...@googlegroups.com
>
> Wouldn't you be better off with a true screen-sharing solution (VNC, Remote
> Desktop, etc.), rather than just a collaborative editor? Where are you going
> to do your compiling, linking, running, and debugging?
>

> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 7:09 PM, Guilherme Vieira <n2.nitro...@gmail.com>wrote:

[Matt Pardee]

Stay tuned, Guilherme. We're not blind to the collaborative nature of the Web, but some things take time - especially if they are to be done right.

Best,

Matt

[Jacob Beard]

This is one of the goals of the Eclipse Communication Framework:
http://www.eclipse.org/ecf/

They have a collaborative Java editor which uses the XMPP protocol. I
haven't used this for serious work, however.

Jake

[Fabian Jakobs]

Hi Guilherme,

as Kevin said, you need a server to do collaboration. We are currently
working hard to integrate collaborative editing to Cloud9 but it will
a "pro" feature and not be part of the open source version (yet).

Even though Cloud9's target is mainly JavaScript, we will enable all
language modes supported by Ace, which includes C/C++. You will be
able to edit collaboratively the same C++ file with others just like
google docs. Though you won't be able compile and run your code. We
are considering adding full shell access as extended feature but this
requires some architectural changes to the code base and a careful
security audit before it can go live. Expect collaboration soon -
shell access might take longer.

Best,
Fabian

[marty.nelson]

I'm not sure editing the same file should be the (only) goal. I think
that's a relic of technology limits and that side-by-side editors with
a 'quick sync' might be a better way to go.

Image you and I are pairing. Someone is still in a 'lead' role, but
now when I have something to 'say', a second editor window comes up
side to side with same code and I can show you what I mean without
having to disrupt flow and control. You could cut and paste, or maybe
we just decide for me to lead.

It's a model makes sense for both in person and remote pairing.

On Feb 15, 10:11 pm, Fabian Jakobs <fabian.jak...@web.de> wrote:
> Hi Guilherme,
>
> as Kevin said, you need a server to do collaboration. We are currently
> working hard to integrate collaborative editing to Cloud9 but it will
> a "pro" feature and not be part of the open source version (yet).
>
> Even though Cloud9's target is mainly JavaScript, we will enable all
> language modes supported by Ace, which includes C/C++. You will be
> able to edit collaboratively the same C++ file with others just like
> google docs. Though you won't be able compile and run your code. We
> are considering adding full shell access as extended feature but this
> requires some architectural changes to the code base and a careful
> security audit before it can go live. Expect collaboration soon -
> shell access might take longer.
>
> Best,
> Fabian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> Hi,
>

> >> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 4:29 PM, n2liquid <n2.nitro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Is Bespin what I want? And why doesn't Ace come with collaborative
> >>> editing bundled (it didn't look like it had to me, at least)?
>
> >> Collaboration requires a server, and the Ace project specifically does not
> >> have a server bit. Our focus with Bespin for a good while now has been on
> >> the embedded editor case as well.
>
> >> So, someone *can* build a good collaborative editor with Ace, and I'd
> >> imagine it will happen.
>
> >> Kevin
>
> >> --
> >> Kevin Dangoor
>
> >> work:http://mozilla.com/

> >> email: kdang...@mozilla.com

[Andrew Petersen]

Marty, I could see your idea being realized similar to code bubbles, where the non-lead person submits an edit, and it shows up as a small bubble in the flow of the code on the screen of the lead. Or even remove the lead role, and bubbles just be appearin' on both screens! Obviously this isn't very different from yours, but it's just the first thing that popped into my head as a way to visualize it.

Also, in general I find myself needing a pair programming text editor frequently. For example, right now I'm teaching my brother general web development (php, js, css, html), and while the need to be editing LIVE php code isn't really necessary, it would be neat to see each other's changes as they happen. Having two copies of the file (one for each of us) on Dropbox works, but is not ideal.

I definitely understand that there are more important things, but I wanted to second that the feature would be nice!

Yip yip,
~ Drew*

[Fabian Jakobs]

Interesting discussion. I like the idea of having two side by side
editors or code bubbles but for Cloud9 we are heading into the
direction of google docs.

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Andrew Petersen <senof...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Marty, I could see your idea being realized similar to code bubbles, where
> the non-lead person submits an edit, and it shows up as a small bubble in
> the flow of the code on the screen of the lead. Or even remove the lead
> role, and bubbles just be appearin' on both screens! Obviously this isn't
> very different from yours, but it's just the first thing that popped into my
> head as a way to visualize it.
> Also, in general I find myself needing a pair programming text editor
> frequently. For example, right now I'm teaching my brother general web
> development (php, js, css, html), and while the need to be editing LIVE php
> code isn't really necessary, it would be neat to see each other's changes as
> they happen. Having two copies of the file (one for each of us) on Dropbox
> works, but is not ideal.
> I definitely understand that there are more important things, but I wanted
> to second that the feature would be nice!

We deem this feature very important since it is one of the features,
which traditional IDEs cannot offer with the same ease of use as an
online IDE. Features like these will make the difference. Writing code
has a strong social component and current IDEs don't take this
sufficiently into account. This is one of the secrets behind GitHub's
success.

Best,
Fabian

[Martin Nelson]

If you have a multiple file  open at the same time in different tabs, and you allow the same file to be opened twice, you essentially have the best of both worlds.

Still waiting on Cloud9 invite, so I don't know what much about features exist yet. :)

--

[Guilherme Vieira]

On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Fabian Jakobs <fabian...@web.de> wrote: 

Interesting discussion. I like the idea of having two side by side 

editors or code bubbles but for Cloud9 we are heading into the

direction of google docs.  

That should be possible pretty easily with extensions, shouldn't it?

We deem this feature very important since it is one of the features,
which traditional IDEs cannot offer with the same ease of use as an
online IDE. Features like these will make the difference. Writing code
has a strong social component and current IDEs don't take this
sufficiently into account. This is one of the secrets behind GitHub's
success.

That's good to hear. I'll be cheering for Cloud9's success.

Best wishes.

[Ariel]

Check out shareJS and TogetherJS which both can work with Ace editor.