Dictionary

[Garrison]

Hello, everyone!

I'm very, very happy to tell you that the translation of Sudre's Solresol dictionary is basically done. (I say basically because I mean that every word has the definition as best I could figure it out at the time, so it probably still needs quite a bit of tweaking to make it a more comprehensive English dictionary).

You can view it here:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqqUac853UsgdGVjdWV6SHlUX3BUQUNGRVNSTF9KcVE&hl=en_US

The third column sometimes contains comments, a couple from Sudre, but mostly from myself regarding the translation process. I typically just wrote "Translation" if I had some difficulty discerning what Sudre was getting at, I wrote "Vague" if I felt that a definition covered to wide a range of meaning, and I wrote "Redundant" if I felt that the basic meaning was covered in another word. If anyone who understands French can help solve some of the translation problems, that'd be great; email me and tell me what's up. 

The words defined by Gajewski differ quite a lot from Sudre's. Because Sudre created the language, and because his dictionary is complete and logical within itself, I suggest that Gajewski's words just get thrown out. However - I think that Solresol is potentially improveable, and as we're in the beginning stages of really using it / learning it, I don't think we should be afraid to tweak definitions to make more sense. I don't feel that I have the right to make decisions like that on my own (unless none of you want to help, in which case I will), so if you're interested, doing this as a community is definitely the way to go in my opinion. (again, I'm not saying we should recreate Solresol. I think we should view Sudre's definitions as the standard, keeping them "sacred" so to speak. But if something seems inconsistent, e.g. if there were two words that have such similar meaning that one wouldn't know when to use one over the other or what the difference is, we should put the meaning into one word and redefine the other to perhaps cover a meaning that Sudre left out, or which didn't exist at his time.)

Thanks in advance for your anticipated excitement, support, and help :)

Before I leave, I do have one translation question that I feel is really important, since it occurs in the two letter words, which are the most basic:

Fare is defined as "Ce, cet, cette, celui-la, celle-la, ceux-la, celle-la, personnes ou choses"

Fami is defined as "Ce, cet, cette, celui-ci, ceux-ci, celles-la, personnes ou choses"

Am I right in thinking that "fare" is "That, that one, those, etc." and "fami" is "This, this one, these, etc."?

Thanks

- Garrison

[M O]

Wow! Awesome! Congratulations, Garrison! That's amazing!!! Thanks for
all your hard work, determination and dedication!

And I feel kind of bad...I kept telling myself I would contribute to
the dictionary, but kept putting it off until "tomorrow" :/ As for
your question, you're right: fami would be used for "this," fammi for
"these." Fare would be "that," and farre = "those." (The different
versions of the same word come from Solresol's grammar; lengthen/
double the final consonant to form the plural, and lengthen the final
vowel to form the feminine). Of course this also depends on what words
precede "fare" or "fami" in the sentences, as the plural/femininity
can be transferred to other "short" words like la (the), fa (to), and
there's another one I'm forgetting at the moment.

This is so exciting! This is another milestone in the history of
(modern) Solresol!!! Maybe I can get the Spanish and Esperanto
translation columns going...or at the least, help with quality control
and look over the entries.

As for Gajewski vs. Sudre, I'm for including both since they're both
part of Solresol's history/evolution and the Solresol community is
still incredibly small and just starting out...so I think it's fair to
let new learners have all the info available and go with their own
preferences.

On Aug 1, 7:43 pm, Garrison <garost...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello, everyone!
> I'm very, very happy to tell you that the translation of Sudre's Solresol
> dictionary is basically done. (I say basically because I mean that every
> word has the definition as best I could figure it out at the time, so it
> probably still needs quite a bit of tweaking to make it a more comprehensive
> English dictionary).
> You can view it here:
>

> https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqqUac853UsgdGVj...

[Garrison Osteen]

Thanks! =D
And don't worry about not doing much, I actually wanted to have the satisfaction of finishing it myself :) Maybe a bit selfish of me, but still.

Here's a similar document with only Gajewski's definitions filled in (made from the grammar online and the various dictionaries available as well.) 

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqqUac853UsgdF9vTTNVT2tOSURuYzVLUzJLcVNKamc&hl=en_US

You'll notice that it's mostly empty space :)

I think that it's probably good to be aware of the fact that there are differences, but I think we should consider Sudre's the standard - meaning if it's available, his definitions should be used. But because people have written snippets using Gajewski's definitions, it's good to have them readily available as well.

I'm thinking maybe we should have one document for the multilingual stuff (with Spanish and Esperanto columns, as you said (open to more people editing it as well) and whatever other languages we want), but perhaps have one document that only has English, for easier usage (so if you search for a word you don't come across irrelevant stuff in other languages that happen to be contain that word within them) and with less open editing, so that it doesn't get out of hand.

Also, I'm starting on the five syllable words... It's not much yet, because Sudre I think meant for them to be defined as needed. That'll be fun :) There's about 15,000 of them if you count the double syllable ones.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqqUac853UsgdE1ocHJLZjF2R2Zuc1ZpV3ZEZ2UzX2c&hl=en_US

I'm excited for what's to come; things get less tedious from here I'm hoping :)

(Oh, an additional note. As far as changing Sudre's definitions, here's a contender: Sudre: Sisol=Mr, Sir; Sila=Mrs., Madame. These two words could be covered by the same word with the feminine stress (although I would admit that it would be nice not always to rely on stress, as it's a bit of an awkward system). Gajewski has: Sisol=Mr., Sir (and Mrs., Madame); and Sila=Young man, bachelor, youth (and the feminine). I would propose taking Gajewski's side in this case, because of the redundancy of Sudre. But I'm checking in with everyone first.)

Also - I think what I'm going to do is preserve the translation in it's current form and create a new document that is primarily English. Then I'll consider the old one to be the words as originally defined and translated, and the new one open to evolution and slight changes like the one I just proposed. Because as soon as I change a word, I can't honestly say it's "as originally defined by François Sudre".

So here's the spreadsheet that I'll consider our standard English dictionary:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqqUac853UsgdEZHazQwcl9yZGtHQkdoVXRraG1KT2c&hl=en_US

Let me know if I'm being to authoritative, or if you think I should be doing something differently or whatever :)

Also - I'm thinking that I might begin work on some sort of website. Not one that would cost anything, so it'd be hosted and wouldn't have a proper name - but still, I think that'd be nice? A forum would be ideal. But this group isn't the most natural way to post information and all that. I'm sure it'll be fine either way.

Sorry for talking so much,

~ Garrison