Pity the children of atheists

[omprem]

Pity the children of atheists at Christmas time. They stand in the
cold with their noses pressed against the window of the toy store
watching the children of religionists laughing and playing among the
toys and perhaps purchasing a toy for a friend as a symbol of
connection, fidelity and fun. The children of atheists know that on
December 25 will be just another day: no presents to unwrap, no joys
to share, no decorations, no gingerbread houses to construct and eat,
and no feast of celebrating the divinity of all beings. Just more
impairment of their mental and physical health through watching the
Discovery channel, playing computer games, using cell phones, and be
exposed to Wi-Fi networks even though stores may be closed in honor of
the birth a saint.

Pity the children of atheists who hear Christmas carols being sung
from afar but who will never know the rise of spirit and consciousness
to be found in singing those carols and hymns. These poor children
miss the pageantry and drama of Nativity plays and services. They miss
celebrating the Christ child just as they miss the mystery and
profundity of their own lives being celebrated by their parents.

Pity the children of atheists at Lent or Ramadan who miss the
opportunities to know the joys of self-sacrifice, self-discovery and
sharing among a community of fully alive beings, and to be free from
the tyranny of the senses that bind their parents, and soon them, so
completely.

Pity the children of atheists at Easter who miss the messages of
redemption, resurrection and, especially, of their own transcendent
nature.

Pity the children of atheists in the summer as they are shipped of to
concentration camps in mathematics, chess or science. They will not
know the joys of camping, of freeing their imagination to the central
mystery in nature and themselves that is the source of many of the
world's nature-based religions. They will instead know that their life
is doomed to one of calculation.

Pity the children of atheists for they will never play freely in the
woods or ride a horse along the seashore and become one with nature
and the universe. They will never lie on their backs at night and view
the stars because the constellations are named after gods and
goddesses and their parents forbid a knowledge of such beings. They
will never sit around a campfire singing songs of mystery and power or
telling ghost stories because their parents forbid it. They will
never do any of these things and more and they know they will be
poorer for it.

Pity the children of atheists whose lives have been taken from them,
whose imagination, curiousity, joy and capacity of awe have been shut
down and hidden from light and air by those closest to them who should
be protecting and nurturing them and encouraging them to reach into
the light as the the flowers of humanity they are.

Pity the children of atheists who have been ground down to faceless
cogs in the machinery of logic but remember who did this to them. Just
as there is an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, so too should
there be a fit punishment for atheist parents who deprive their
children of the vitality, mystery and wonder of life. Perhaps they
should lose the freedom of their life through imprisonment for the
term of that natural life as atonement for taking the life and
freedom of their children or perhaps atheists should be sterilized so
that they can not longer take the lives of more children.

[floyd_1977]

I had suspected, but now I'm convinced that you don't know a
single real life atheist.

[Turner Hayes]

I'm curious, Oompa-Loompa: does the fantasy you live in have aliens? Are leaves blue and the sky green? Do hamburgers eat people instead of the other way around? Do bowling balls float up and balloons float down? I'm intrigued by your clearly very active imagination.

[floyd_1977]

On Aug 2, 9:54 am, "Turner Hayes" <lordlacol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm curious, Oompa-Loompa: does the fantasy you live in have aliens? Are
> leaves blue and the sky green? Do hamburgers eat people instead of the other
> way around? Do bowling balls float up and balloons float down? I'm intrigued
> by your clearly very active imagination.

I wonder if omprem would say the same things about people of
other faiths that he says about atheists. Is it non-Christians he
has a problem with, or is anyone who has a god fine in his book?

[Word_Swordsman]

Pity the normal person knowing an atheist. They are extremely rare in
the USA, 3-9%. Look at the nations with the most atheists then compare
their lifestyle to people in the USA. http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html
Pity any nation plagued with ANY atheists. They are the roaches of
society, wandering in the dark, scurrying away when the light come on.
They invite people to spray them with 'atheisticide', the truth of the
Word of God. Can any good come from them? No. Of course not. Pity the
atheist? No. They made their choice and will sleep in the bed they
make.

Jim

[Ivan Karamazov]

Pity the children of christians who are told they will burn in hell if
they don't believe the christian fairytale.

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Aug 2, 7:46 am, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> Pity the children of atheists

... and Hindus ...

> at Christmas time.

> December 25 will be just another day:

Poor Hindu children!

[floyd_1977]

On Aug 2, 9:59 am, Word_Swordsman <Ouachitabassang...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Pity the normal person knowing an atheist. They are extremely rare in
> the USA, 3-9%.

I don't know if I'd call that extremely rare, but your world
is topsy turvy.

> Look at the nations with the most atheists then compare
> their lifestyle to people in the USA.http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html

What is your point? Please, tell me about the lifestyle of
an atheist, and I'll tell you if your perception agrees with
my reality.

> Pity any nation plagued with ANY atheists. They are the roaches of
> society, wandering in the dark, scurrying away when the light come on.

How so? With an atheist population of 3-9% in the US, what
percentage of the US prison population would you expect to be
atheist? With a 75% Christian population in the US, what
percentage of the US prison population would you expect to
be Christian?

After you answer, I'll give you the statistics, and then we can
talk about who the roaches of society are.

> They invite people to spray them with 'atheisticide', the truth of the
> Word of God.

Atheists want to spray people with the truth of the word of God?
Strange concept.

> Can any good come from them? No. Of course not.

You are dead wrong, unless you are using some perverted
definition of "good."

> Pity the
> atheist? No. They made their choice and will sleep in the bed they
> make.

It's not really a choice.

[Mike L.]

Here in Canada we are a very multicultural nation
and it seems everyone celebrates their version of
Christmas just not with the mythological Jesus stories,
with love and laughter and gathering together with
their families and being just a little more generous
then you are in spirit.
I go out and play Christmas carols in the local
plazas.

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Aug 2, 7:59 am, Word_Swordsman <Ouachitabassang...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Pity the normal person knowing an atheist. They are extremely rare in
> the USA, 3-9%. Look at the nations with the most atheists then compare
> their lifestyle to people in the USA.

Sri Lanka* might be the country with the highest proportion of
atheists. (Terevada** Buddhism is atheistic). How do Sri Lankans'
lifestyle compare with that of people in the US? Southeast Asia has
influence from both Teravada and + Mahayana Buddhism which might
explain why the Thais seem to treat the Buddha like a god.

** The concept of a supreme Creator God is rejected or at least
considered irrelevant to Theravada Buddhism.
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/80/story_8042_1.html
+ The Mahayana faction reinterpreted the original teachings of the
Buddha and added a type of deity ...
http://atheism.about.com/library/world/AJ/bl_CambodiaBuddhismOrg.htm

[Simpleton]

On Aug 2, 7:59 am, Word_Swordsman <Ouachitabassang...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Pity the
> atheist? No. They made their choice and will sleep in the bed they
> make.

...peacefully without having to worship a three-in-one god born of a
virgin who killed himself on the cross to spare his own creation from
his own wrath.

Or having to spend $1200 for a ten volume CD set.

[Delusional?]

The easter bunny, santa, trees in the living room, cupid, etc. are not
contingent upon religion but are an example of civil festivities.
White Christmas - the most recorded Christmas song, has nothing to do
with Jesus. I know Jews who have Christmas trees because it is "the
season". For most, Christmas is as much a religious occasion as
Thanksgiving. Atheists can still give presents too wince Jesus does
not need to be invoked. I know pagans who do as well you fool.

[Delusional?]

On Aug 2, 10:59 am, Word_Swordsman <Ouachitabassang...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Pity the normal person knowing an atheist. They are extremely rare in
> the USA, 3-9%. Look at the nations with the most atheists then compare

> their lifestyle to people in the USA.http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html

> Pity any nation plagued with ANY atheists. They are the roaches of
> society, wandering in the dark, scurrying away when the light come on.
> They invite people to spray them with 'atheisticide', the truth of the
> Word of God. Can any good come from them? No. Of course not.

Except for maybe the discovery of most of the medical cures of the
20th century and things like DNA for starters. Otherwise you are
correct :-)

> Pity the
> atheist? No. They made their choice and will sleep in the bed they
> make.

Most of them sleep soundly from what I hear.

>
> Jim

Jones

[Delusional?]

On Aug 2, 10:54 am, "Turner Hayes" <lordlacol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm curious, Oompa-Loompa: does the fantasy you live in have aliens? Are
> leaves blue and the sky green? Do hamburgers eat people instead of the other
> way around? Do bowling balls float up and balloons float down? I'm intrigued
> by your clearly very active imagination.

I hear that all of that is possible on LSD.

[OldMan]

As far as I know he/she makes no claims to being a Christian. Appears
instead to be some form of Hindu.

[Ivan Karamazov]

On 2 aug, 17:56, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com" <ranjit_math...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Eh... The Hindu divali holiday may some years coincide with the end of
the Ramandan and Christmas...

[omprem]

Before I read any of the replies to this post, allow me to predict
what they will be:
1. Useless moaning and invective
2. Shocked and appalled that anyone would say this about atheists 3.
It is religionists who are guilty of child abuse.
4. We love our atheist children and are protecting them from delusion

So, now let's have a look.

[Simpleton]

Christmas ends in October or November?

[omprem]

You are not called simpleton for nothing.

[Simpleton]

On Aug 2, 11:35 am, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> You are not called simpleton for nothing.
>

Thanks, pompom. Pity it took took you this long to realize it.

> > Christmas ends in October or November?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[random]

So you came to THIS?
After failing to give proofs, failing to bring sufficient evidence and
even failing to understand what an atheist believes in, you aim so low
and pity atheists because their children doesn't enjoy Christmas?

Seriously, that's really pathetic. It's like I'll try to convince
Theists to become atheists just so they can have more time on Sundays.
Actually, it's worse, since most atheists I know ARE celebrating
Christmas...

[Dev]

Thanks, omprem. Proving me right about theists once again.

[Dev]

You guys prove that all the nasty things I say about theists are way,
way nicer than what they deserve. I apologize to all atheists for
sugarcoating the reality of how fucked up theists actually are.

On Aug 2, 8:59 am, Word_Swordsman <Ouachitabassang...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Pity the normal person knowing an atheist. They are extremely rare in
> the USA, 3-9%. Look at the nations with the most atheists then compare

> their lifestyle to people in the USA.http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html

> Pity any nation plagued with ANY atheists. They are the roaches of
> society, wandering in the dark, scurrying away when the light come on.
> They invite people to spray them with 'atheisticide', the truth of the
> Word of God. Can any good come from them? No. Of course not. Pity the
> atheist? No. They made their choice and will sleep in the bed they
> make.
>
> Jim
>
> On Aug 2, 9:49 am, floyd_1977 <floyd_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I had suspected, but now I'm convinced that you don't know a

> > single real life atheist.- Hide quoted text -

[omprem]

It is good that atheists celebrate the birth of Christ. Now all they
have to do is behave in an appropriate way, spend a little more time
on developing right brain processes and they will know the mystery and
divinity of Christ.

[omprem]

Stop abusing children

[Jon C. Brown Sr.]

SO TRUE, in regards to atheists needing to behave. They need JESUS!

On 8/2/07, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:

--
Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe that something inside of them was superior to all circumstances. Heal the past; live the present; dream the future.

[Dev]

The Catholic church covers up pedophilia, Islam was founded by a
pedophile and advocated child brides, children have been recruited
into religious wars historically, all the Gods of monotheisms are
child killers according to their sacred texts, etc. This is obviously
worse than the shit you were bitching about, like teaching kids
science.

Obviously, anyone who is really against child abuse thinks theists
should be shot for coming within one hundred yards of children under
any circumstances.

> > > that they can not longer take the lives of more children.- Hide quoted text -

[Simpleton]

On Aug 2, 2:21 pm, "Jon C. Brown Sr." <bishopjoncalvinbr...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> *SO TRUE, in regards to atheists needing to behave. They need JESUS!*
>

Well, if only the poor SOB would show up. In the meantime, we'll
simply use commonsense.

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Aug 2, 2:17 pm, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> It is good that atheists celebrate the birth of Christ. Now all they
> have to do is behave in an appropriate way, spend a little more time
> on developing right brain processes and they will know the mystery and
> divinity of Christ.

It's good that India celebrates Gandhi jayanti. Now, all Indians have

to do is behave in an appropriate way, spend a little more time on
developing right brain processes and they will know the mystery and

divinity of Gandhi:->

[random]

Actually I meant something else, and I think you know it.
After all, in the last years you see much less Christ in Christmas,
and a lot more presents and materialism.
Since I'm talking about something wide, even in the US which is mostly
Christian, you can't even blame atheists for this.

As for "the appropriate way", I don't exactly see you making an effort
to set an example.
Luckily for Christianity, I don't see you as a good representative of
your religion.

[Simpleton]

On Aug 2, 3:48 pm, random <random.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually I meant something else, and I think you know it.
> After all, in the last years you see much less Christ in Christmas,
> and a lot more presents and materialism.
> Since I'm talking about something wide, even in the US which is mostly
> Christian, you can't even blame atheists for this.
>
> As for "the appropriate way", I don't exactly see you making an effort
> to set an example.
> Luckily for Christianity, I don't see you as a good representative of
> your religion.
>

Far too discerning. I don't see pompom as a good representative of
anything.

[Mike L.]

Robert Ingersoll famous agnostics Christmas list for 1897

Robert Ingersoll produced the following Christmas list over one
hundred years ago.

If I had the power to produce exactly what I want for next Christmas,
I would have all the kings and emperors resign and allow the people to
govern themselves.

I would have all the nobility crop their titles and give their lands
back to the people. I would have the Pope throw away his tiara, take
off his sacred vestments, and admit that he is not acting for God --
is not infallible -- but is just an ordinary Italian. I would have all
the cardinals, archbishops, bishops, priests and clergymen admit that
they know nothing about theology, nothing about hell or heaven,
nothing about the destiny of the human race, nothing about devils or
ghosts, gods or angels. I would have them tell all their "flocks" to
think for themselves, to be manly men and womanly women, and to do all
in their power to increase the sum of human happiness.

I would have all the professors in colleges, all the teachers in
schools of every kind, including those in Sunday schools, agree that
they would teach only what they know, that they would not palm off
guesses as demonstrated truths.

I would like to see all the politicians changed to statesmen, -- to
men who long to make their country great and free, -- to men who care
more for public good than private gain -- men who long to be of use.
I would like to see all the editors of papers and magazines agree to
print the truth and nothing but the truth, to avoid all slander and
misrepresentation, and to let the private affairs of the people alone.

I would like to see drunkenness and prohibition both abolished.

I would like to see corporal punishment done away with in every home,
in every school, in every asylum, reformatory, and prison. Cruelty
hardens and degrades, kindness reforms and ennobles.

I would like to see the millionaires unite and form a trust for the
public good.

I would like to see a fair division of profits between capital and
labor, so that the toiler could save enough to mingle a little June
with the December of his life.

I would like to see an international court established in which to
settle disputes between nations, so that armies could be disbanded and
the great navies allowed to rust and rot in perfect peace.

I would like to see the whole world free -- free from injustice --
free from superstition.

This will do for next Christmas. The following Christmas, I may want
more.

The Arena, Boston, December 1897.

On Aug 2, 1:01 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 2, 7:59 am, Word_Swordsman <Ouachitabassang...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Pity the normal person knowing an atheist. They are extremely rare in
> > the USA, 3-9%. Look at the nations with the most atheists then compare
> > their lifestyle to people in the USA.
>
> Sri Lanka* might be the country with the highest proportion of
> atheists. (Terevada** Buddhism is atheistic). How do Sri Lankans'
> lifestyle compare with that of people in the US? Southeast Asia has
> influence from both Teravada and + Mahayana Buddhism which might
> explain why the Thais seem to treat the Buddha like a god.
>
> ** The concept of a supreme Creator God is rejected or at least

> considered irrelevant to Theravada Buddhism.http://www.beliefnet.com/story/80/story_8042_1.html

[traveller]

What of the Jewish children, etc... please these children only know
what they have been taught not what anyone would like them to
believe. When they become of the age of reason they can develop their
own personal beliefs. Until then, children will be children innocent
to the extent of their environment.

[traveller]

Yes, it does sound like an upside down world.

On Aug 2, 10:54 am, "Turner Hayes" <lordlacol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm curious, Oompa-Loompa: does the fantasy you live in have aliens? Are
> leaves blue and the sky green? Do hamburgers eat people instead of the other
> way around? Do bowling balls float up and balloons float down? I'm intrigued
> by your clearly very active imagination.
>

[traveller]

Atheist are not different than Christians...each has beliefs.

On Aug 2, 10:59 am, Word_Swordsman <Ouachitabassang...@gmail.com>

wrote:
> Pity the normal person knowing an atheist. They are extremely rare in
> the USA, 3-9%. Look at the nations with the most atheists then compare

> their lifestyle to people in the USA.http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html
> Pity any nation plagued with ANY atheists. They are the roaches of
> society, wandering in the dark, scurrying away when the light come on.
> They invite people to spray them with 'atheisticide', the truth of the
> Word of God. Can any good come from them? No. Of course not. Pity the
> atheist? No. They made their choice and will sleep in the bed they
> make.
>
> Jim
>
> On Aug 2, 9:49 am, floyd_1977 <floyd_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I had suspected, but now I'm convinced that you don't know a

> > single real life atheist.- Hide quoted text -

[traveller]

It is unfortunate that the leaders of yesteryear's Christiandom
thought it prudent to threathen with HE-double hockey sticks, in order
to keep membership. Humans,still hasn't changed.

On Aug 2, 11:52 am, Ivan Karamazov <rubinst...@planet.nl> wrote:
> Pity the children of christians who are told they will burn in hell if
> they don't believe the christian fairytale.

> > that they can not longer take the lives of more children.- Hide quoted text -

[traveller]

SO

On Aug 2, 1:01 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Aug 2, 7:59 am, Word_Swordsman <Ouachitabassang...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
> > Pity the normal person knowing an atheist. They are extremely rare in
> > the USA, 3-9%. Look at the nations with the most atheists then compare

[traveller]

All well and true. However, for those with the Christmas Spirit they
are truely gifted. Unless ever experienced it can not be
appreciated. Of all my years I have had one such occasion and shall
never forget the peaceful joy of heart. I certainly would not mind a
same experience again.

On Aug 2, 1:11 pm, Delusional? <dtatu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The easter bunny, santa, trees in the living room, cupid, etc. are not
> contingent upon religion but are an example of civil festivities.
> White Christmas - the most recorded Christmas song, has nothing to do
> with Jesus. I know Jews who have Christmas trees because it is "the
> season". For most, Christmas is as much a religious occasion as
> Thanksgiving. Atheists can still give presents too wince Jesus does
> not need to be invoked. I know pagans who do as well you fool.

[traveller]

Why not sleep soundly they have all the answers

On Aug 2, 1:13 pm, Delusional? <dtatu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 2, 10:59 am, Word_Swordsman <Ouachitabassang...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
> > Pity the normal person knowing an atheist. They are extremely rare in
> > the USA, 3-9%. Look at the nations with the most atheists then compare

> > their lifestyle to people in the USA.http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html
> > Pity any nation plagued with ANY atheists. They are the roaches of
> > society, wandering in the dark, scurrying away when the light come on.
> > They invite people to spray them with 'atheisticide', the truth of the
> > Word of God. Can any good come from them? No. Of course not.
>

> Except for maybe the discovery of most of the medical cures of the
> 20th century and things like DNA for starters. Otherwise you are
> correct :-)

>
> > Pity the
> > atheist? No. They made their choice and will sleep in the bed they
> > make.
>

> Most of them sleep soundly from what I hear.
>
>
>
> > Jim
>
> Jones

>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 2, 9:49 am, floyd_1977 <floyd_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > I had suspected, but now I'm convinced that you don't know a

> > > single real life atheist.- Hide quoted text -

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Aug 2, 5:22 pm, traveller <roseartpick...@gmail.com> wrote:
> SO

So, make observations contrasting Sri Lankans' and US people's
lifestyle.

[traveller]

What is the Point!

[traveller]

Have to agree.

On Aug 2, 3:06 pm, random <random.s...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > that they can not longer take the lives of more children.- Hide quoted text -

[traveller]

Right-on

On Aug 2, 2:27 pm, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> Before I read any of the replies to this post, allow me to predict
> what they will be:
> 1. Useless moaning and invective
> 2. Shocked and appalled that anyone would say this about atheists 3.
> It is religionists who are guilty of child abuse.
> 4. We love our atheist children and are protecting them from delusion
>
> So, now let's have a look.

[traveller]

Or, be left to their own devices?

[omprem]

ML:

"I go out and play Christmas carols in the local plazas. "

Omprem:

Does that make you a hypocrite or are you just hedging your bets?

On Aug 2, 12:43 pm, "Mike L." <violinm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Here in Canada we are a very multicultural nation
> and it seems everyone celebrates their version of
> Christmas just not with the mythological Jesus stories,
> with love and laughter and gathering together with
> their families and being just a little more generous
> then you are in spirit.
> I go out and play Christmas carols in the local
> plazas.

[omprem]

Delusional:

"I know Jews who have Christmas trees because it is "the season".

Omprem:

Indeed it is the season. Are those 'Jews for Jesus'?

It is interesting that many Jews felt overwhelmed at Christmas time
and so had to upgrade in importance what once was an insignificant
festival - Hanukkah. And African Americans had to invent Kwanza. The
human ego is frail is it not?

On Aug 2, 1:11 pm, Delusional? <dtatu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The easter bunny, santa, trees in the living room, cupid, etc. are not
> contingent upon religion but are an example of civil festivities.
> White Christmas - the most recorded Christmas song, has nothing to do
> with Jesus. I know Jews who have Christmas trees because it is "the
> season". For most, Christmas is as much a religious occasion as
> Thanksgiving. Atheists can still give presents too wince Jesus does
> not need to be invoked. I know pagans who do as well you fool.
>

[omprem]

As far as I can see you wouldn't know Christianity if it bit you on
the ass.

On Aug 2, 1:44 pm, OldMan <edjarr...@msn.com> wrote:
> On Aug 2, 7:59 am, floyd_1977 <floyd_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> > On Aug 2, 9:54 am, "Turner Hayes" <lordlacol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I'm curious, Oompa-Loompa: does the fantasy you live in have aliens? Are
> > > leaves blue and the sky green? Do hamburgers eat people instead of the other
> > > way around? Do bowling balls float up and balloons float down? I'm intrigued
> > > by your clearly very active imagination.
>

> > I wonder if omprem would say the same things about people of
> > other faiths that he says about atheists. Is it non-Christians he
> > has a problem with, or is anyone who has a god fine in his book?
>
> As far as I know he/she makes no claims to being a Christian. Appears
> instead to be some form of Hindu.

[omprem]

He is here all the time. If only you had the equipment to know that
and experience your own divinity.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste and atheists are the poster
children of wasted minds.

[omprem]

This is true. Were you under the delusion that there was a difference
between the divinity of Christ, Gandhi or even yourself?

On Aug 2, 6:36 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

[omprem]

So now you are complaining because the atheist influence has infected
more Christians? You atheists are never satisfied. But then if you
were satisfied you would know divinity.

One of the styles in which I choose to post in this arena is that of
reflecting back to atheists the way that they attack and denigrate
religionists. If you think it is unseemly when I model your behaviour,
perhaps you should change your behaviour.

[OldMan]

On Aug 2, 6:38 pm, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> As far as I can see you wouldn't know Christianity if it bit you on
> the ass.

LOL, and suddenly you are an expert on the subject? I see that Yohan
has a cheering section now. How amusing. ;-)

> > instead to be some form of Hindu.- Hide quoted text -

[omprem]

Most of that I agree with. Priests of any rank should stop being
managers first and become children of God first. Teach only what you
know is a good idea, except that as atheists know nothing of
significance, they should be quiet and learn. Public good over private
gain is good, International courts are good. Redefining economic
theory is good.

Abolishing corporal punishment is good. (Does sterilizing atheists
count?)

Responsibility for one's spiritual evolution is good (When will
atheists start to accept and act on that responibility?)

Now for the flaky parts.

Why would 'the people' make any better job of governing themselves?
The U.S., for example, is the most warmongering nation the world has
ever known?

Why should those who own land give to those who do not? Why can't
those who don't own land earn enough to buy land just everyone else.
Why are they so lazy that they whine for a handout?

And why would they manage the land better than those who already own
it?
The 110 years that have elapsed since this flight of fancy has
clearly demonstrated that a new landed class is less responsible.

Prohibition didn't work. Drunkenness is always with us. Why? Because
people such as atheists wallow in sensory enjoyments and are heedless
of the harm they do to themselves.

Define injustice? It is just for atheists to be corralled in special
workhouse to protect them from themselves, from their unbridled
emotion and also so that the rest of the public is safer and not
bothered by the noisy begging of atheists.

Superstition? Yes, atheistic belief in empiricism, scientific method,
the primacy of the senses, and their own self-importance has gotten so
out of control that it constitutes a superstition if not a religion.
If a religion, then it should be allowed to continue in the open much
like the snake handling religions of of Ozarks. But if a superstition,
then yes eliminate it. But then that is what the work house and the
sterilization program is for.

Next?

[omprem]

Have you not been listening to the more vocal atheists on this board?
They vehemently deny that atheism is belief based. And Christianity
is not based on belief but on direct experience of Christ
Consciousness or God, to you atheists.

That two strikes. One more and you are out.

[omprem]

No. One does not allow children to run with a knife in their hands.
These atheists have to be protected from hurting themselves, their
children or others.

[scooter]

Uh huh. Pity atheist children? Read this you kook:

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=6866975

"Monroe County - A student minister faces serious charges after
investigators say he committed a crime in the name of Christianity.
Police say the minister battered an autistic teenager while trying to
perform an exorcism. It happened at the boy's Bloomington home."

Ah yes, Christianity at its finest.

[rappoccio]

Pity the children of moronic insulting assholes like Omprem. They'll
never know that humanity is actually worthwhile despite their constant
reminder that their father is a fucking idiot. They'll never know that
there are children out there that DON'T plot the death of their father
to drown him and his incessant droning in a river.

Pity the children of delusional idiots, they will probably kill
themselves and the rest of us all in their quest to make all the non-
delusional idiots (or differently delusional idiots) accept their
personal delusions as truth.

Pity the children of the intellectually vapid. They'll be at a severe
disadvantage against all those "book larnin' smart kidz" in school.
But it'll ease up on the competition, so hey, maybe that's not a bad
thing.

On Aug 2, 10:46 am, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> Pity the children of atheists at Christmas time. They stand in the
> cold with their noses pressed against the window of the toy store
> watching the children of religionists laughing and playing among the
> toys and perhaps purchasing a toy for a friend as a symbol of
> connection, fidelity and fun. The children of atheists know that on
> December 25 will be just another day: no presents to unwrap, no joys
> to share, no decorations, no gingerbread houses to construct and eat,
> and no feast of celebrating the divinity of all beings. Just more
> impairment of their mental and physical health through watching the
> Discovery channel, playing computer games, using cell phones, and be
> exposed to Wi-Fi networks even though stores may be closed in honor of
> the birth a saint.

Have you ever heard of Saturnalia? The feast of Sol Invictus?

No?

Hint: It's the pagan winter solstice holiday that preceded Christmas.
People can make a holiday out of anything they want.

[rappoccio]

Pity, the normal, rational people who are forced to drive next to
delusional idiots who think the universe is 5,000 years old and man
was created from dust and ribcages. That kind of idiot behind a
steering wheel just gives me the creeps.

[rappoccio]

Be sure to wish them a Happy Saturnalia!

On Aug 2, 1:11 pm, Delusional? <dtatu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The easter bunny, santa, trees in the living room, cupid, etc. are not
> contingent upon religion but are an example of civil festivities.
> White Christmas - the most recorded Christmas song, has nothing to do
> with Jesus. I know Jews who have Christmas trees because it is "the
> season". For most, Christmas is as much a religious occasion as
> Thanksgiving. Atheists can still give presents too wince Jesus does
> not need to be invoked. I know pagans who do as well you fool.
>

> On Aug 2, 10:46 am, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
>
> > Pity the children of atheists at Christmas time. They stand in the
> > cold with their noses pressed against the window of the toy store
> > watching the children of religionists laughing and playing among the
> > toys and perhaps purchasing a toy for a friend as a symbol of
> > connection, fidelity and fun. The children of atheists know that on
> > December 25 will be just another day: no presents to unwrap, no joys
> > to share, no decorations, no gingerbread houses to construct and eat,
> > and no feast of celebrating the divinity of all beings. Just more
> > impairment of their mental and physical health through watching the
> > Discovery channel, playing computer games, using cell phones, and be
> > exposed to Wi-Fi networks even though stores may be closed in honor of
> > the birth a saint.
>

[rappoccio]

On Aug 2, 2:27 pm, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> Before I read any of the replies to this post, allow me to predict
> what they will be:
> 1. Useless moaning and invective

Wow, just like every single post you ever make!

> 2. Shocked and appalled that anyone would say this about atheists

No, not shocked and appalled, we've all come to expect pure drivel
from you. Nothing surprises me anymore. Come on, can't you top your
concentration camp theory?

> 3. It is religionists who are guilty of child abuse.

Well that's often the case, as it is with your particular brand of
lunacy.

> 4. We love our atheist children and are protecting them from delusion

Good idea.

>
> So, now let's have a look.
>

[rappoccio]

Why?

On Aug 2, 5:21 pm, "Jon C. Brown Sr." <bishopjoncalvinbr...@gmail.com>

wrote:
> *SO TRUE, in regards to atheists needing to behave. They need JESUS!*
>

> On 8/2/07, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > It is good that atheists celebrate the birth of Christ. Now all they
> > have to do is behave in an appropriate way, spend a little more time
> > on developing right brain processes and they will know the mystery and
> > divinity of Christ.
>
> > On Aug 2, 3:06 pm, random <random.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > So you came to THIS?
> > > After failing to give proofs, failing to bring sufficient evidence and
> > > even failing to understand what an atheist believes in, you aim so low
> > > and pity atheists because their children doesn't enjoy Christmas?
>
> > > Seriously, that's really pathetic. It's like I'll try to convince
> > > Theists to become atheists just so they can have more time on Sundays.
> > > Actually, it's worse, since most atheists I know ARE celebrating
> > > Christmas...
>

> --
> Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe
> that something inside of them was superior to all circumstances. Heal the
> past; live the present; dream the future.

[rappoccio]

That's cool, I like it ;)

> > On Aug 2, 7:59 am, Word_Swordsman <Ouachitabassang...@gmail.com>

> > wrote:
>
> > > Pity the normal person knowing an atheist. They are extremely rare in
> > > the USA, 3-9%. Look at the nations with the most atheists then compare

[rappoccio]

On Aug 2, 10:06 pm, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> Most of that I agree with. Priests of any rank should stop being
> managers first and become children of God first. Teach only what you
> know is a good idea, except that as atheists know nothing of
> significance, they should be quiet and learn. Public good over private
> gain is good, International courts are good. Redefining economic
> theory is good.
>
> Abolishing corporal punishment is good. (Does sterilizing atheists
> count?)

Passive aggressive threats of violence, I see you've become more
subtle in this post.

I can only hope that you're not in charge of anything important, like
driving a car or operating a stove.

>
> Responsibility for one's spiritual evolution is good (When will
> atheists start to accept and act on that responibility?)
>
> Now for the flaky parts.
>
> Why would 'the people' make any better job of governing themselves?

Because it seems to work pretty well most of the time.

> The U.S., for example, is the most warmongering nation the world has
> ever known?

"Has ever known" is a bit of a stretch. And who is now doing the
warmongering?

Oh, that's right, that fundamentalist religionist whacko who thinks
God wants him to kill Muslims.

Right. Good job with that "blind faith" thing there.

>
> Why should those who own land give to those who do not? Why can't
> those who don't own land earn enough to buy land just everyone else.
> Why are they so lazy that they whine for a handout?

Dunno, most of the country is Christian, if there are any problems,
you can most likely take it up with them.

> And why would they manage the land better than those who already own
> it?
> The 110 years that have elapsed since this flight of fancy has
> clearly demonstrated that a new landed class is less responsible.
>
> Prohibition didn't work. Drunkenness is always with us. Why? Because
> people such as atheists wallow in sensory enjoyments and are heedless
> of the harm they do to themselves.

What harm would that be?

>
> Define injustice? It is just for atheists to be corralled in special
> workhouse to protect them from themselves, from their unbridled
> emotion and also so that the rest of the public is safer and not
> bothered by the noisy begging of atheists.
>
> Superstition? Yes, atheistic belief in empiricism, scientific method,
> the primacy of the senses, and their own self-importance has gotten so
> out of control that it constitutes a superstition if not a religion.
> If a religion, then it should be allowed to continue in the open much
> like the snake handling religions of of Ozarks. But if a superstition,
> then yes eliminate it. But then that is what the work house and the
> sterilization program is for.

Said the moron who thinks all of reality is an illusion (but hasn't
graced us with his exist from it at the next possible moment).

[Ivan Karamazov]

On 2 aug, 23:17, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> It is good that atheists celebrate the birth of Christ. Now all they
> have to do is behave in an appropriate way, spend a little more time
> on developing right brain processes and they will know the mystery and
> divinity of Christ.

Christmas is not the birth of Christ but a pagan holiday of the
rebirth of light, originally called Yule

[adsims2001]

>Can any good come from them? No. Of course not.

Oh, really? Here's a list of a few atheists/agnostics in history:
Albert Einstein
Aldous Huxley (author of "Brave New World")
Isaac Asimov (Author)
Carl Sagan (astronomer)
Susan B. Anthony
Vincent Van Gogh
Samuel Clemens aka Mark Twain
Kurt Vonnegut
Thomas Jefferson (Not atheist, but deist; believed in a powerful
creator who ceased action in the Universe after the initial creation
of matter)
Thomas Edison (Inventor of hundreds of modern technologies, including
incandescent bulb)
Sigmund Freud (Father of modern psychology)

Read this page for more:
http://www.wonderfulatheistsofcfl.org/Quotes.htm

On Aug 2, 9:59 am, Word_Swordsman <Ouachitabassang...@gmail.com>

wrote:
> Pity the normal person knowing an atheist. They are extremely rare in
> the USA, 3-9%. Look at the nations with the most atheists then compare

[Simpleton]

On Aug 2, 6:42 pm, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> He is here all the time.

...if that makes you feel less-ashamed of yourself as a human being, I
wouldn't object.

> If only you had the equipment to know that
> and experience your own divinity.
>

Sorry, but I do not carry the personal surgical equipment for
lobotomies like you do.

> A mind is a terrible thing to waste

Well, clearly you are in no danger, for you cannot waste what you do
not have.

> and atheists are the poster
> children of wasted minds.
>

Which makes you their refuse-picker.

> On Aug 2, 6:04 pm, Simpleton <hu...@whoever.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 2, 2:21 pm, "Jon C. Brown Sr." <bishopjoncalvinbr...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > *SO TRUE, in regards to atheists needing to behave. They need JESUS!*
>
> > Well, if only the poor SOB would show up. In the meantime, we'll

> > simply use commonsense.- Hide quoted text -

[Simpleton]

On Aug 2, 10:03 pm, rappoccio <rappoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 2, 10:06 pm, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:

> > Superstition? Yes, atheistic belief in empiricism, scientific method,
> > the primacy of the senses, and their own self-importance has gotten so
> > out of control that it constitutes a superstition if not a religion.
> > If a religion, then it should be allowed to continue in the open much
> > like the snake handling religions of of Ozarks. But if a superstition,
> > then yes eliminate it. But then that is what the work house and the
> > sterilization program is for.
>
> Said the moron who thinks all of reality is an illusion (but hasn't
> graced us with his exist from it at the next possible moment).
>

"Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments when he was merely
stupid. "
Heinrich Heine, German critic & poet (1797 - 1856)

Savor it Sal, for this is one of those moments from the latter
category.

[Legato]

Pity the Christian who goes about the corporatized scheme of
Christmas, practicing hyper-consumerism, material addictions, poor
diets, and delusions of magical men performing impossible acts.

And btw... The Discovery channel is a hundred times better than
watching nickelodeon's commercials where men in business suits decide
how to reel your kids further into addictions of junk food and
material possessions.

Fuck, who needs to draw with a pencil and paper, I got magic pictures
that are already perfect and all i have to is rub something on them to
make them appear. GO IMAGINATION, GO!

[random]

I was merely stating a fact, that Christmas is not exactly about
Christ, even from the Christian point of view.
Why? maybe because even for Christians in the US, presents, family and
trees mean more then someone's birthday.

I never wanted to change your holidays, honestly, I simply don't care
how you celebrate. But since it was YOU who pitied atheists while
placing presents, cookies and decorations in high priority, maybe it's
YOU who needs to do a house check about what your holiday turned to.

[ian]

This is what people still think is given to them by religion, when
Nature taken straight is providing every wonder, every love, and every
purpose anyone could ever need.

I do not believe in Gods, Demons, or Ghosts or Goblins. But I am an
artist who spends every day in rapture at what nature does in every
way. I also enjoy holidays any way I damn well please (Halloween and
Valentine's Day currently enjoy my favor -- dressing in costume for a
day, and passing out love notes....).

All I ask of any child I would meet is that they should give their
world some credit -- take it straight, and look at it closely, without
thinking one must invent beauty in order to have any. Then, make an
art of what you love.

Science has given us a chance to see beyond ourselves in ways that
religion, with its claustrophobic fixations and heavily-protected
falsehoods, has never managed to do. Finally, we can see that the
universe, as it actually is, is not so bad after all. We no longer
fear the darkness, but peer into it, and discover the invisible light
waves that bring life to it for other creatures. We no longer seek to
invent fantastical beings to explain the dance of the spheres, but
rejoice in the music made by their mutual gravity, the math of which
you are so dumbly dismissive, which is more lovely than any "god" ever
conceived by our ancestors.

Do not delude yourself. I am one of the examples that you are
mistakenly pitying. I was raised a natural child, completely religion-
free from the start, yet never for a second was I "peering through the
window" at my friends with their menorahs and crucifixes and bizarre,
human-centered attitudes about nature. I was too busy dancing in the
woods, and getting to know what the woods had to say. Spending
quality time with my cat, who was revealingly indifferent to all
religion, yet absolutely in tune with everything that matters, was
also instructive.

It is deeply disturbing that you have attempted to smear those who
have embraced what is real, and have constructed a piece of
sentimental prose that is a blood-curdling insult to all that is
truthful and beautiful on the only planet you and I and everyone have
to live on.

You know absolutely nothing of atheists, agnostics, or skeptics.
Otherwise, you will have figured out that the life you love is filled
with them. Some are in the room with you, celebrating Christmas, and
saintfully letting the Jesus-talk slide by, just because they care
about you for more important reasons.

Maybe they should be buying you a copy of Carl Sagan's "Cosmos",
instead of an ugly tie...

Nahhh. You wouldn't understand.

[ian]

Reality knocking.

"Belief-based" doesn't mean anything. We all have beliefs about
things. Some of us like to believe things that are most likely true,
and others like to believe things that are chosen for their
complimentary way with our social goals, our family embrace, and our
neighborhood surroundings.

Further, the following sentence reaches even further into foggy
nothingness with an utter ignorance of what the word "belief" itself
means. The entire sentence is reduced to blather and dogmatic phrases
stuck clumsily together -- all the words divested of their rightful
meaning.

You cannot a direct experience "of Christ", because Christ (real or
imagined) is not a verb. He is a noun. You can't change that, and
neither can a church, no matter how obscurantist you would like to be
with the language. Further, you can't, and have not had, a direct
experience WITH Christ (the correct word), because if Jesus Christ
ever existed, he died 2007 years ago.

You may like what he is said to have said, you may even feel like he's
in the room if you've been thinking about him obsessively (I get the
same effect with Beethoven), but you have to realize eventually that
he's not actually there, or you're going gradually mad.

[Legato]

Exactly.

> > that they can not longer take the lives of more children.- Hide quoted text -

[ian]

That wasn't a reply at all. "Stop abusing children"?

Were you answering something?

On Aug 2, 2:18 pm, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> Stop abusing children
>
> On Aug 2, 3:53 pm, Dev <thedevil...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> > Thanks, omprem. Proving me right about theists once again.

[ian]

My right brain can beat your right brain with both left brains, yours
and mine, tied behind my back.

You've insulted your last musician/poet/filmmaker, you pipsqueak.

Bring it on.

On Aug 2, 6:42 pm, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:

[Joshua Smellie AKA ~Psychotic~]

What the hell? Just because I'm an atheist, if I ever have children
I'd never dream of denying them presents just because I don't believe
in God. Just because I don't believe in God doesn't mean I'd punish my
children for beliving in God either.

I believe in Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Choice. So I think
anyway who believes in religion/God has a right to do so, though I
despise Christians (and Atheists) advertising/bribing people and
trying to turn them to their religion. If someone wants to switch
religions then it's their choice.

[omprem]

Why don't you make a post showing the details of your supposedly
Christian beliefs. You could call it 'This I believe".

After all there have been numerous atheists who have been brave enough
to display their beliefs on this forum. While I don't agree with their
reasons, I do appreciate their bravery and openness.

And if you are going to ask what I believe all that you have to do is
read my posts.

[omprem]

You atheists insist on making the same mistake over and over and over
again.

You cannot claim that religion is flawed because someone
misunderstands or misuses religion for his own purposes any more than
you blame or ban chemistry because Hitler used Zyklon B gas to
exterminate people.

Do you get it now?

[omprem]

Mini-Me has finally snapped. We all knew it was only a matter of time,
but nevertheless, it is an awesome spectacle to view someone in full
meltdown.

[omprem]

I suppose that you are now going to try and convince us that The
Flintstones was not a documentary.

[omprem]

We have had the Einstein discussion already. He was a mystic.
Carl Sagan was an aggressive pot head who's ideas were induced by his
good friend, Mary Jane.
Vincent Van Gogh was likely suffering from lead poisoning when he cut
his ear off.
Sigmund Freud long since discredited. His ideas came from dallying
with cossetted aristocratic women, oh yes, and wanting his mommy
baaaaadly.

[omprem]

If you had bothered to read the post instead of randomly scanning it
you would have noticed that the presents are symbols of connection
and fidelity, the food and decorations a celebration of the birth of a
saint and the communion of humans in their own divinity.

But I'm not surprised that you avoided the essence and went with the
appearance. That is the definition of an atheist.

[omprem]

This was one of the better atheist posts. It had all the usual atheist
misconceptions of religion but it seemed to be heartfelt right up
until we learn that his hero, his prophet is that drug-addled faker,
Carl Sagan. Sagan's vision was actually drug induced hallucination,
so may we infer that your vision too is also drug-induced and worth
about the cost of a joint?

[omprem]

You are bit anal in your confusing grammar with spiritual experience.

Again, atheist beliefs are unfounded and illogical. And yours seem to
be drug-induced hallucinations if you are following the path of your
hero, Carl Sagan.

Religion is experience of divinity. You seem to be confusing the
physical body of Jesus with who he was. A common mistake for atheists
with their limited resources and addiction to sense data.

[omprem]

So, Ian replied in a drug-induced haze.

[omprem]

Well, Smellie, there seems to be some hope for you after all.

On Aug 3, 7:54 am, Joshua Smellie AKA ~Psychotic~

[random]

I did read it.
Presents, gifts, joy, sharing and fun are nothing that is unique to
Christians or Christianity.

The only difference is that Christians also connect the same deeds to
the birth of a saint.
Judging from last year's "Bring Christ back to Christmas", I'm
guessing the connection is not that also among Theists.

[konrad]

Pity the children of Catholics who have been forced to live chained to
a guilt trip.
Pity the children of Calvinists who are born in sin, damned before
they can even pronounce the word, and having to duck the fire and
brimstone.
Pity the children of evangelist charismatic fundamentalists who are
constantly confused when they go to geography class, or science class,
or biology class.
Pity the children of any religion who are being deluded, brain-washed,
and fed mindless drivel.

Blessed are children of atheists who are goven choice, information,
insight and horizons.
Blesed are the children of open-minded, inclusive and non-judgementals
who might save this crappy little planet from descending down the path
of religious intolerance and bloodshed.

Pity the poor in sipirit, the meek and the mindless - JC spun you a
tale...

And, by the way, Christmas and Easter are more pagan than Christian -
go read some books, you twit.

[OldMan]

On Aug 3, 5:44 am, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> Why don't you make a post showing the details of your supposedly
> Christian beliefs. You could call it 'This I believe".

You should try remembering what you read. Because I have been doing
that for nearly 2 years. And you even commended my last post on the
topic. It's amazing how trying to be a moderator has turned your
opinion around 180. Fortunately, I could hardly care less what you
think of me.

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[rappoccio]

On Aug 3, 1:17 am, adsims2001 <adsims2...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >Can any good come from them? No. Of course not.
>
> Oh, really? Here's a list of a few atheists/agnostics in history:
> Albert Einstein

Einstein was technically a pantheist, but that's just "sexed up
atheism", as Dawkins puts it. The rest are right, as far as I know.

[rappoccio]

Haha, I'm going to remember that one ;)

[rappoccio]

Excellent post, this was very well-written. I enjoyed it quite a bit.

On Aug 3, 7:10 am, ian <iankshie...@gmail.com> wrote:

[rappoccio]

What a comeback! "You're a poopy head"? What are you, nine?

[rappoccio]

On Aug 3, 8:56 am, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> We have had the Einstein discussion already. He was a mystic.

Actually a pantheist who didn't believe in a personal God.

> Carl Sagan was an aggressive pot head who's ideas were induced by his
> good friend, Mary Jane.

And a brilliant scientist. Marijuana is not a deterrent from actual
brilliance.

> Vincent Van Gogh was likely suffering from lead poisoning when he cut
> his ear off.
> Sigmund Freud long since discredited. His ideas came from dallying
> with cossetted aristocratic women, oh yes, and wanting his mommy
> baaaaadly.

So this is ad-hominem attack. Just discredit their accomplishments by
denouncing their person.

[Ivan Karamazov]

On 3 aug, 14:48, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> You atheists insist on making the same mistake over and over and over
> again.
>
> You cannot claim that religion is flawed because someone
> misunderstands or misuses religion for his own purposes any more than
> you blame or ban chemistry because Hitler used Zyklon B gas to
> exterminate people.
>
> Do you get it now?

Judge a tree by its fruit...

[Delusional?]

On Aug 2, 8:27 pm, traveller <roseartpick...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why not sleep soundly they have all the answers

Actually most would say that they do not have all the answers, but
quite the converse. They do not have any rational answers to their
rational questions. Understand here that the qualification for
rational is evidence that can be externally verified at the least and
proven at best. This is the issue that theist most often do not
understand about atheists and why most theists by default are not
answering the questions in a direct way. When a question is not
addressed in a direct way, it is viewed as an offense and establishes
grounds for failure. So, to repeat, think through the two
qualifications of evidence in terms of external verifiability and/or
offering proof and you will go much further here. By the way, these
two standards are commonplace in most academic investigations for
virtually any topic these days - from religion to physics.

>
> On Aug 2, 1:13 pm, Delusional? <dtatu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 2, 10:59 am, Word_Swordsman <Ouachitabassang...@gmail.com>

> > wrote:
>
> > > Pity the normal person knowing an atheist. They are extremely rare in
> > > the USA, 3-9%. Look at the nations with the most atheists then compare
> > > their lifestyle to people in the USA.http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html
> > > Pity any nation plagued with ANY atheists. They are the roaches of
> > > society, wandering in the dark, scurrying away when the light come on.
> > > They invite people to spray them with 'atheisticide', the truth of the
> > > Word of God. Can any good come from them? No. Of course not.
>

> > Except for maybe the discovery of most of the medical cures of the
> > 20th century and things like DNA for starters. Otherwise you are
> > correct :-)

>
> > > Pity the
> > > atheist? No. They made their choice and will sleep in the bed they
> > > make.
>

> > Most of them sleep soundly from what I hear.
>
> > > Jim
>
> > Jones

>
> > > On Aug 2, 9:49 am, floyd_1977 <floyd_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I had suspected, but now I'm convinced that you don't know a

> > > > single real life atheist.- Hide quoted text -

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Aug 3, 5:48 am, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> You atheists insist on making the same mistake over and over and over
> again.
>
> You cannot claim that religion is flawed because someone
> misunderstands or misuses religion for his own purposes any more than
> you blame or ban chemistry because Hitler used Zyklon B gas to
> exterminate people.

Good point. How far would you carry it? Would you say that one cannot
claim that a Thug's religion was flawed because he strangled travelers
for his goddess Bhavani and that Thugee must not be banned?

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Aug 3, 4:54 am, Joshua Smellie AKA ~Psychotic~

If children are allowed to grow up without being taught their parents'
religion and expected to make an eventual choice on their own, would
their parents' religions survive?

[Delusional?]

Just expanding a bit on your thoughts ian...

On Aug 3, 7:33 am, ian <iankshie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Reality knocking.
>
> "Belief-based" doesn't mean anything. We all have beliefs about
> things. Some of us like to believe things that are most likely true,
> and others like to believe things that are chosen for their
> complimentary way with our social goals, our family embrace, and our
> neighborhood surroundings.

Right and I think this is one of the key terms that a theist misuses
in place of faith. As a general comment, a belief can be a very
reasonable generalization about something we experience based on
evidence and an understanding of the degree of probability that
something does not happen by chance (when I drive my car over a bridge
it will not collapse even if one collapsed yesterday). It is kind of
a non-scientific estimate if you will. A gamble is an action taken on
a belief that something may or may not happen with a relatively low or
undetermined probability (when I drive my car over a lake in January
in a 32 degree temperature I will not crack the surface and sink). A
theory is based on statistically significant probability that
something does not occur by chance and therefore has very high and
reliable explanatory power (If I start my car it will not explode). A
belief can still be based on a theory since there is always the chance
that something we can predict accurately will not occur each time,
even if that event will not occur only on extremely rare occasion.
Faith is therefore more like a gamble since it is based on low or
undetermined probabilities that something (i.e. the experience of God)
occurred as an event with a phenomenon quite outside of pure
subjectivity (a phantasm of the mind as it were).

So faith is a belief in something, but on a scale it would be a very
low level of belief since it cannot be accurately predicted. However,
faith is usually taken to have not only the same strength of belief
but even stronger than the belief that my car will not explode when I
turn the key today.

>
> Further, the following sentence reaches even further into foggy
> nothingness with an utter ignorance of what the word "belief" itself
> means. The entire sentence is reduced to blather and dogmatic phrases
> stuck clumsily together -- all the words divested of their rightful
> meaning.

Which reveals the essential problem!

>
> You cannot a direct experience "of Christ", because Christ (real or
> imagined) is not a verb. He is a noun. You can't change that, and
> neither can a church, no matter how obscurantist you would like to be
> with the language. Further, you can't, and have not had, a direct
> experience WITH Christ (the correct word), because if Jesus Christ
> ever existed, he died 2007 years ago.

Actually more like 2011 years ago but who's counting? :-) So faith
here is that one can have an experience with a phenomenon and
attribute that phenomenon to an explanation that inherently has a low
probability of reproducibility for observation in order to determine
its predictability. Yet that explanation is somehow held with even
more conviction than a theory which offers clear predictability that
something did not occur by chance. So belief in God as a specific
entity should be quite tentative and up for change by its inherent
nature of having very low explanatory power in the scheme of things
and in the inherent limits of human cognition to understand how all
phenomena interact. What omprem suggests is that we jettison such
cognition that is itself critical of its own limitations in favor of
something that allows for more "creativity" as if such thinking limits
itself to only what it can reproduce. The truth is that the rational
thought process is up against phenomena that it cannot reproduce all
the time. The difference is in the commitment to explain both what it
can reproduce and what it cannot. This is by my estimation the heart
of the rational thought process itself. It is an act of critical
judgment and providing reasons that address why you made that
judgment. You have to be very right-brained in order to think outside
the box and explain what you cannot currently explain. Just ask
Rappoccio about his PhD experiment - finding explanations of what has
no current explanation is the nature of inquiry itself!

>
> You may like what he is said to have said, you may even feel like he's
> in the room if you've been thinking about him obsessively (I get the
> same effect with Beethoven), but you have to realize eventually that
> he's not actually there, or you're going gradually mad.

This is the problem with personal notions of Jesus as if wee can
ascribe any notion of "personality" to a risen Christ who is not a
flesh and blood entity. In any spiritual literature, the knowledge of
God begins via negativa - that which is not God reveals who God is,
but we cannot ascribe material categories to that God since it is by
necessity outside of those categories. Omprem has deluded himself
into thinking that postulating such a reality via positiva - by
categories that are directly accessible in the material realm - give
access to full knowledge. Issue is that via negativa - the only other
option - cannot lead to knowledge per se since it is the negation of
anything we can cognitively apprehend. the statement of opening one's
mind is therefore a fallacy since it assumes another dimension to
human cognition itself which itself has no vehicle for comprehension.
Hence, via positive knowledge of God must come through analogy with
human experience and nothing more. The notions of moksha, Nirvana,
etc. are simply beyond what we know to be knowable since they are
outside the very set of what we can apprehend cognitively. Omprem's
very dialogue is inherently contrary to that which he ascribes to the
"real".

>
> On Aug 2, 7:09 pm, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
>
> > Have you not been listening to the more vocal atheists on this board?
> > They vehemently deny that atheism is belief based. And Christianity
> > is not based on belief but on direct experience of Christ
> > Consciousness or God, to you atheists.
>
> > That two strikes. One more and you are out.
>
> > On Aug 2, 8:18 pm, traveller <roseartpick...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Atheist are not different than Christians...each has beliefs.
>

> > > On Aug 2, 10:59 am, Word_Swordsman <Ouachitabassang...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Pity the normal person knowing an atheist. They are extremely rare in
> > > > the USA, 3-9%. Look at the nations with the most atheists then compare
> > > > their lifestyle to people in the USA.http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html
> > > > Pity any nation plagued with ANY atheists. They are the roaches of
> > > > society, wandering in the dark, scurrying away when the light come on.
> > > > They invite people to spray them with 'atheisticide', the truth of the

> > > > Word of God. Can any good come from them? No. Of course not. Pity the

> > > > atheist? No. They made their choice and will sleep in the bed they
> > > > make.
>

> > > > Jim

[Baz]

Well, you can't claim it isn't flawed because of those same reasons
either, can you?

And how can you possibly state that someone "misunderstands" religion?
Who are you, or anyone, to be the arbiter of what religion is or
isn't, when the only fact about religion is that there is no proof
for ANY claims made about it, other than that some people
(tautologically) have beliefs about it?

> > > that they can not longer take the lives of more children.- Hide quoted text -

[Delusional?]

On Aug 3, 9:11 am, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> You are bit anal in your confusing grammar with spiritual experience.
>
> Again, atheist beliefs are unfounded and illogical. And yours seem to
> be drug-induced hallucinations if you are following the path of your
> hero, Carl Sagan.
>
> Religion is experience of divinity. You seem to be confusing the
> physical body of Jesus with who he was. A common mistake for atheists
> with their limited resources and addiction to sense data.

Then you may not be aware that the orthodox position with Jesus is a
bodily resurrection. The dictum is what is appropriated is saved. A
classic logical argument of the atonement. Moreover, the other
classical position with the Incarnation is two natures in one
substance. It is called the hypostatic union. I do not agree with
the former position and do not see a bodily resurrection as necessary
and it seems odd (my wife says that it's creepy to believe that there
is a physical body floating around in heaven - nice little truism).
But the latter makes sense if one is to say he or she understands who
Jesus actually was. From your position you would fall under the
category of gnostic which denies the humanity of Jesus. But that is a
speculative assertion the denies what we do know about his humanity by
any means. That is to say, if you believe in a resurrection of some
sort, you must grant that reality based on the New Testament writings
about it since that is the canon of most reliable sources on that
event. To read into these texts with a gnostic interpretation is
putting a view prior to the text itself since there are clear
indicators there of his humanity. Of course you believe that humanity
itself (in terms of material ego) is a false and illusory notion so
all of this is a moot point.

[Delusional?]

On Aug 2, 9:38 pm, omprem <omp...@magma.ca> wrote:
> As far as I can see you wouldn't know Christianity if it bit you on
> the ass.

Omprem, it is clear to me that you are the one who has a very skewed
understanding of Christianity. this is apparent in this very
discussion with your clear lack of understanding of the hypostatic
union. Most Christians affirm this in terms of the creeds and
confessions of the Church. Might want to confer with the Nicene creed
a bit. Although I tend to like the Second Helvetic Confession due to
its comprehensiveness and the Chalcedonian affirmation of the nature
of the Incarnation which is where we get the confessional
understanding of the hypostatic union. In short, your gnostic
interpretation was declared a heresy long ago by the early Christians
and is no longer present in most church doctrine since it has no
biblical authority whatsoever (and understand that this is coming from
a Protestant so there are many Catholic statements that clearly do not
carrry this kind of authority either).

If you think that Christianity is bullshit that's fine. But don't
claim it as your own when you do not undnerstand it.