ABS-X The Zero Warp ABS?

[scienteer]

Yesterday I received a roll ABS-X filament via 3DFilaprint here in the UK.

The filament is made by Dutchfilaments.com in the Netherlands and purports to be 'zero warp'. From what I can tell it is identical to Titan-X from Formfutura, also in the Netherlands, as the spec sheet is identical other than the logo. However ABS-X seems to be much cheaper, I paid £23 for a kilo including tax and delivery. Titan-X would cost me £35 + delivery for only 750g.

So, does it live up to the zero warp promise? Well its still early days and I will need to print some more to come up with a conclusive statement, but so far YES.

I started of with printing a couple of custom brackets. These were only about 6cm long and had a number of 45degree overhangs.The first had zero warp, but the overhangs suffered some curling that made the it look a little ugly. On the second I decided to add some fan to combat the curling. I still had some minor curling, but much better than the first and again zero warp.

Then i printed some a couple of electonics enclosures. Generally these are horrible for ABS as the long straight tall sides are a recipe for warping and cracking. As the cases also had some overhangs I decided to reduce my bed temp to 90 for the first to fight the curling (this is starting to seem much more like printing in PLA at this point). The result was great again with zero warp. On the second case I decided to turn up the fan to 40%. Normally with ABS this would be suicide, but in this case it turned out nigh on perfect. Again with absolutely zero warp and what seems to be great layer bonding and strength.

My current settings are 250 nozzle, 90(bed) and 40% fan from layer 5 up. For my standard eSun ABS I had been using a bed at 115degrees and would still get some minor warp and these enclosures. All this is in an Ikea Lack enclosure btw, I cant say what it would be like without one.

Obviously, its still early days with this filament, but so far I cant fault it. And even better it doesnt break the bank.I will try and post an update when I get a chance to do some real torture tests.

[Ryan Carlyle]

What temp is it good for? Glass point / HDT / Vicat? ABS warps because it's good for high temps and reasonably stiff. Zero-warp ABS means they did something to either the stiffness, temp resistance, or crystallinity (various mechanical properties)... or they added a composite filler that doesn't shrink as much.

[Kurt at VR-FX]

This stuff almost sounds Magical. And, I love ABS in regards to melting
it in Acetone - to make it liquid - or to Naturally Weld 2 pieces
together by painting Acetone over the joint. I just MUST Know if Acetone
has the SAME Effect on this ABS-X!!! Does X stand for Extreme? Sounds
Extremely cool to me so far!!!

[Cristian Nicola]

according to the datasheet it has lost a few celsius on glass transition temperature (97). 

http://shop.3dfilaprint.com/ekmps/shops/billyboyclyde/resources/Other/filaprint-abs-x.compressed.pdf

Chris

[scienteer]

Seems and feels like regular ABS to me so far. I havent found whatever compromise they made yet.

[scienteer]

Apparently acetone smoothing and welding still works, but I haven't tried it yet myself.

[Ryan Carlyle]

Vicat of 97C is reasonable for ABS -- the measurement can come in a bit under the "normal" glass point. 

The only clue I can find is "ABS-X is the perfect material for strong objects that require an high impact tolerance." My best guess is that it's a high-butadiene blend (more rubbery than usual) so the thermal contraction doesn't build up as much warping stress. The fairly high elongation at break (for ABS) supports this. But who knows. Maybe they know something I don't :-)

[Kurt @ VR-FX]

Yes - please try & let me know!

Thx,
-K-

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 28, 2017, at 12:47 AM, "'scienteer' via 3D Printer Tips, Tricks and Reviews" <3dprintertips...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Apparently acetone smoothing and welding still works, but I haven't tried it yet myself.
>

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[scienteer]

So if it is the same as Titan-X and I am fairly confident it is then it seems to be capable of acetone smoothing.

https://youtu.be/LkKMA3tSiHw

[scienteer]

Some warp tests. This is a 200 x 10 x 10mm block printed with 4 bottom shells and 3 perimeter shells. Zero infil and zero top shells. All prints done on my Wanhao Di3 on a PEI bed in an enclosure. I didnt use any rafts or brims.

[Jetguy]

Nice test, could you share the STL file for future tests?

One nice thing about that is the ribs in the side wall that also shows distortion and warpage.

I would like to see that used for other material comparison testing.

[scienteer]

@jetguy not at home at the mo, but will post it tomorrow.

[scienteer]

Warp Test STL

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2458414

[Mark Napier]

Does the enclosure heat up with the heated bed? I had hoped making a heated bulld chamber would all but eliminate warping.

[Ryan Carlyle]

You need ~80C chamber temp to all but eliminate warping. It's hard to get that high. 

[Enginwiz]

How bad is the styrene stink of Titan X?

[scienteer]

@Enginwiz I haven't really been paying attention to the smell. My guess os that its about the same as other ABS brands.

[scienteer]

I have done the test and confirmed that it can be acetone glued or smoothed.

[Kurt at VRFX]

Awesome DUDE - that is GREAT News to me!!!

Gives me potential for some great new projects - and really get back to
printing with ABS!

:-)

Thanks!

-K-


On 8/2/2017 1:08 PM, 'scienteer' via 3D Printer Tips, Tricks and Reviews
wrote:

[AdanA]

This is sounding very promising for sure. I have some projects that could sure benefit from these properties.

Is it available in the US? I've looked at 3DFilaPrint and, though it doesn't say they won't ship here, it's not letting me through the checkout process with a US shipping method.

[Kurt at VRFX]

DAMN - that SUCKS!

[Jetguy]

Maybe from here? https://craftunique.com/category/abs-x-filaments

[Adan Akerman]

That worked - thanks Jetguy. 

It's a bummer, from a production materials standpoint, though: they've got a super limited color selection (at the moment I'm offering customers 19 colors). Also cheapest shipping was $15 for a $34 roll. (would have been $19 for two rolls, didn't explore beyond that).

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[scienteer]

GlobalFSD will do a sample for a good price.

http://globalfsd.com/abs-x-by-filaprint-2754-p.asp

[Raphael Remma]

Got 4 spools yesterday. Nice filament.
Just one thing I found really wierd. I got my extruder perfectly calibrated, using flow in between 1.0 and 0.90 depending of the filament.

On ABS-X I had to reduce to 0.75!!! (Yes, I've changed the filament diameter on SP3D).

[Jetguy]

Different filament is gripped differently by the drive gear because of "effective diameter" of the drive gear depending on how deep the teeth bit in.
That's exactly why the flow rate was and is an adjustment per filament.

[scienteer]

I used the exact same multiplier(0.97) as I do for all my prints. What Jetguy says is true, but even so 0.75 is really extreme for what seems to me like a pretty standard filament. Have you got the temperature hot enough? I think I read that it needs a little more heat than standard ABS.

[Cristian Nicola]

i've found that the extrusion multiplier and the filament width are in a relation :) 

[JF Kansas]

They should be, 2 different measurements. 

[Cristian Nicola]

what i meant is you may need a lower extrusion multiplier if the value for width of the filament is too low compared to the actual value of the filament width. reason is you have told the software you are pushing 1.7 width of filament each mm but you are pushing 1.8 in reality. this forces extrusion multiplier to get lowered to compensate for that .1mm in width difference between what software thinks and what the filament is.

[JF Kansas]

That is why in the slicer you set the filament width, average width at least. It doesn't directly affect the multiplier since the volume is recalculated. Now if you fudge the filament diameter to always be 1.7 but the actual is different, that can affect the multiplier.  I've found that I can run almost all my filament across several brands at about 1.72 ish with out doing any lengthy measurement or calibrations and still get great prints. 

[Cristian Nicola]

Few posts up someone did say that .75 extrusion multiplier is extreme. i did say that with the "correct" wrong filament width you can get a .75 extrusion multiplier that is not that extreme... i have learned the hard way to take those numbers with a pinch of salt - at the end of the day they dont mean much in isolation unless you specify the group of them.

[Raphael Remma]

I'll try with Cura later and see what happens.
Im printing at 245c. At 235-240 the layer bonding was weak.
Ill post pictures soon.

[Enginwiz]

I printed some test parts with black Formfutura Titan-X on the Robox.

The first pleasant surprise was no discernible smell during printing.

This is the first ABS I would want to use without an air scrubber.

Automaker 3.0.0 provides a filament profile for Titan-X with

a nozzle temperature of 240°C for the first layer and 232°C

for the subsequent layers. These are very low temperatures

for ABS and as suspected interlayer bonding was problematic.

I did a pull test against an ABS part printed on the Mojo.

Usually the Mojo ABS M30 test parts break at a force of 400 N.

The Titan-X part printed on the Robox failed at 190 N.

It was a clean split between layers. 

There is also a bit of underextrusion on the top layers.

 

Apart from that the test parts are OK. There is no warping,

but these parts are only 20 x 20 mm. So far Titan-X sticks

    well to the PEI thermosurface of the Robox. Titan-X and

    Polymaker Polysupport as peelable supports were also tested

    and seem to be a good combination.

I will print some more test parts with 250°C nozzle temperature

and a higher extrusion factor.

@Raphael: Did increasing the nozzle temperature solve your problems

                   with weak interlayer bonding?

[Enginwiz]

Interlayer bonding of TitanX improves up to 245°C nozzle temperature.

Break force increases to 270 N and maxes out on this level.

The failure mode changes from weak interlayer bonding to breaking

across layers at the points of highest tension.

Increasing the print temperatures to 250°C or higher doesn't

produce stronger TitanX parts on the Robox, but the print quality

suffers due to limited cooling. At 250°C and above a slight ABS smell

gets noticable.

Formfutura TitanX is obviously a medium strength ABS blend.

This may be the compromise to achieve the low warp properties.

It is as easy and pleasant to work with as some of the better PETGs.

No complaints about ABS stink in the office.

[Adan Akerman]

This is a super cool testing report, very helpful. I've been offline a bit recently so forgive me if this is commonly known, but have you done testing of this sort with many other materials? I'd love to see more comparisons.

Has anyone tested UV stability of various print materials? I've had a couple of customers store our products in the sun (esun ABS) and they can, in some conditions, become comically brittle.

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[Enginwiz]

I try to optimize the print temperatures to get best interlayer adhesion
and proper solidification for all filaments I use on my printers. This test
method is not an industry standard, but simple and inexpensive. The
test results are giving me enough feedback to dial in the nozzle temperature
and the right amount of cooling for a good compromise between surface
quality and part strength.

UV light breaks down the polymer chains in plastic materials.
Some color pigments are UV resistant and can protect the polymers
below the surface. Titanium dioxide as white color and carbon as black
pigment are good canidates for opaque colors in outdoor applications.
Formfutura recommends ASA as UV resistant filament for outdoor use.

[Adan Akerman]

What does your break test setup look like? 

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[scienteer]

It seems to me like TitanX should be better than regular ABS in almost all respects.

[Enginwiz]

This is my simple and inexpensive break test setup.

I picked up this cheap chinese luggage scale in a supermarket

at the end of the summer holiday season for € 10. It is remarkably

accurate with a deviation of +2% at a nominal weight of 20 kg.

Max. range of this model is 50 kg. 40 kg would do the job as well.

My test sample is on Thingiverse: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:38100

I use two test samples glued together with superglue to compare

different materials. The strongest parts I tested with this setup

break around 40 kg or 400 N of pulling force.

The test samples are loaded with a combination of shear and

bending stresses. Printed parts, that are used as connectors between

metal structures, often have to withstand a simmilar combination

of stresses.

[Ryan Carlyle]

Looks like a high-butadiene blend. Less stiff, better impact resistance, less brittle. I could speculate that excess butadiene helps eat up free styrene so it doesn't smell as much. 

Stiffness causes warping. Personally, one of the main reasons I use ABS is because it has high stiffness (without being as brittle as PLA) so a low-warp ABS with lower stiffness seems questionable versus switching to PETG. 

[Enginwiz]

The white side of the test sample is Stratasys ABS M30.
Stratasys calls it ABS plus for Mojo and Dimension printers.
This is the material in the right column of your comparison list.

The black TitanX side should be stronger and more flexible
than the white ABS M30 side, but it is always the black
TitanX side that breaks first.

I printed another test sample on the Replicator 2
at 245 degrees nozzle temperature with the part cooling fan off.
The TitanX part snapped at 280 N and the white ABS M30 side
of the test sample still wins the competition hands down.

Test samples of Colorfabb nGEN usually break between 320 N to 340 N
in this test setup. I would appreciate to achieve the same performance
with TitanX. The advantage of TitanX over PETG is easy mechanical
finishing and the option of acetone smoothing. TitanX prints like PETG,
but the printed parts have the look and feel of ABS: Fat oily black color,
quick and effortless sanding, flame polishing, easy drilling and taping.

[Kurt at VR-FX]

Hey there Ryan,

Yeah - I've actually tried some PETG - and its pretty Damn Sweet. But, alas - I miss those characteristics of ABS. The natural welding between pieces via acetone. And, of course, my ability to recycle ABS pieces - soaking an Acetone and making liquid plastic. But, yeah - I HATE the Drawbacks. Oddly - or maybe not so odd - when I had my cupcake - I was a purely ABS kinda guy! But, with the Super-CupCake and now the Wanhao - the bigger print area means larger pieces. And, so - then all the ABS problems become Way apparent w/printing larger pieces. So - once Jetguy sent me the SC - then he also pushed me to stick w/PLA and not do ABS - which is largely what I have done.

But - hey - to be able to go back to working a lot more with ABS - that would be wonderful (although I don't like the smell - and know I must ventilate my space more when working with ABS!).

-K-

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[Enginwiz]

@scienteer: Did you succed in printing strong parts with TitanX

On the Robox and on the Replicator 2 I am stuck with medium part strength.

My TitanX parts are about half as strong as your comparison chart would suggest.

[scienteer]

@enginwiz I havent done any strength tests. I havent got any kit to make any measurements like you did, but I will try printing your test piece in ABS-X and regular ABS and see which breaks first.

[scienteer]

So i tested ABS-X vs Esun ABS using your test piece. I havent got a scale to give reading, but it took about half my weight to break. I did the test twice with very similar results the blue eSun broke both times.

Both materials were printed at 245c.

[Brandon A.]

Is it fair to say that this is the effect of the Mojo's heated build chamber since it is breaking cleanly along layer lines?  The base material is stronger but the process in the Mojo results in better interlayer adhesion.  Makes sense to me.

[Adan Akerman]

Thanks for that, Enginwiz. I'll be setting up something comparable - I'd love to optimize each bot for optimal temperature vs. material for strength.

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[Enginwiz]

Thank you for testing an ABS-X sample against Esun ABS. This is promising.

I wonder if Formfutura TitanX and Dutchfilaments ABS-X are really the same product.

The datasheets are nearly identical, but Dutchfilaments offers more colors.

There is a way to find it out - I ordered a roll of ABS-X from a reseller of Dutchfilaments.

 

[Enginwiz]

@ Brandon: The white Stratasys ABS M30 sample side printed on the Mojo did not break.

                    Until now always the black TitanX sample side broke apart. The Robox is fully

                    enclosed, but its build chamber is only heated passively by heat coming off the build plate.

                    Build chamber temperature of the Robox was around 45°C during the test prints.

                    My Replicator 2 has a heated build plate, but its front side and top are open.

@scienteer: Do you have a build chamber with an additional electric heater around your printer?

[scienteer]

It was printed in a passivly heated enclosure on my i3 printer. The bed was at 90degrees. I didnt measure the ambient temp. The ABS-X was printed first so the chamber would have been a bit warmer for the second print of the eSun.

All were printed at .2mm layer height with 100% infil.

[Enginwiz]

Thank you for the details of your printer setup.

Does your i3 have an MK10 hotend with a teflon tube
or has it been upgraded to an all metal hotend?

TitanX prints beautifully on the Replicator 2 and on the Robox.
Melt flow, infill and perimeters look good at 245 degrees nozzle temp.
I really don't understand why the part strength of my sample parts
is so mediocre. My TitanX filament has been dried with silica gel
for several days and sits in a bag with silica gel and a humidity
sensor during printing. So humidity shouldn't be an issue.

[scienteer]

All metal microswiss hotend.

The esun broke along the layer lines. In my experience this is the normal failure mode for FDM parts. It could be that the ABS-X is only medium as strength as your tests seem to show and my esun print was just had week interlayer bonding. From my perspective if the ABS-X is weaker, but more isotropic then thats a trade off I am happy to accept.

I guess that the Mojo can get really good layer bonding without sacrificing quality using a more standard ABS.

Have you got any of the standard robox ABS left to test?

[Enginwiz]

I have some green Robox ABS on a smartreel, that came with the printer.
This stuff warps like crazy and fills the office with a nasty styrene stink.

The Mojo exclusively prints chip coded ABS. Stratasys calls it ABSplus
on some printers and ABS-M30 on others. The polymer blend is Cycolac
MG94-1000 from Saudi Basic Industries. It is a strong and rigid ABS blend
and requires a heated build chamber for large parts. Stratasys is a rip-off
and charges around 300 Euros per kg for this ABS. Think of inkjet printers.

E3d and other suppliers are selling MG94 ABS for reasonable prices.
It prints well on the Robox, but most parts show some warping.
The build chamber should have around 90 degrees for MG94.
Too hot for the Robox and most other printers.

[Enginwiz]

@scienteer: As per your request my Robox is currently printing a sample part with CEL Chroma green ABS.

After four layers the part started to warp badly. This is the same PEI print sheet

that works perfectly for Stratasys SR-30 soluble support material, Polysupport,

TitanX and several brands of PETG including Colorfabb nGen.

If the print finishes successfully I will do a pull test against TitanX.

[Enginwiz]

The print with CEL Chroma green ABS went through.

Let's call that thing here a green banana.

And the build chamber temperature in the Robox

was 55°C. Maybe I will pull the CEL ABS from the

smart reel, throw the filament away and reuse the

empty smart reel for a different filament type.

I will have to sand down the banana at the bottom to glue

it to the other test sample printed with TitanX on the Replicator 2.

This will take some time.

[scienteer]

@enginwiz woah thats really bad warping. I would say that I generally dont get warping on the Robox. Well actually I dont get anything as the head is currently dead.

Thanks for doing these test though. Im learning loads from it.

[Enginwiz]

CEL doesn't sell this badly warping ABS filament any more.
Three or four years ago stuff like this was more or less the standard.
It is printable, but only in a very narrow process window.

I switched over to your build plate temperature setting of 90 degrees celsius
for TitanX. This seems to improve the print quality. The bottoms of my TitanX
test prints on the Replicator 2 are now dead flat and have a shiny mirrorlike
finish. The whole first layer was still stuck to the Aquanet hairspray when
I removed the glass plate from the Bottleworks HBP at around 50 degrees.
It took some time until the printed parts self-released from the cooling
build plate, but it was a hot day and we had an ambient temperature of
nearly 30 degrees in the office.

[Enginwiz]

The break force for CEL Chroma Green ABS was 170 N or 17 kgf.

The sample was printed ob the Robox Dual at 245°C for the nozzle

and 90°C for the print bed. The failure mode is a clean break between layers.

On the winning backside of this tug-of-war is a sample of black TitanX.

A possible classification of the test results could be:

- up to 200 N or 20 kgf: low part strength

- between 200 N or 20 kg and 300 N or 30 kgf: medium part strength

- above 300 N or 30 kgf: high part strength

[scienteer]

That all fits then.

The ABS-M30 is the king. IF printed in an oven. And if you can afford it.

TitanX ABS is best for the majority of printers.

Regular ABS is best if cost is king. Or you need a particular colour not availiable above.