Condiderations on 360Cities visibility on Google Earth
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Peter Mad
Mar 28, 2012, 3:05:53 AM3/28/12
to 360c...@googlegroups.com
Jan
Good morning!
I read that you and your collegues are going to meet Google people in the coming days. I would like to provide you with some personal comments concerning Google Earth service:
- Premise: GE is a valuable tool to promote and improve our visibility, but ... :
A - The Red Square Icon for the 360Cities panos is too dispersed in the crowded mass of Panoramio icons. This especially if the photographed place is a quite famous one. The red icon is in fact not clearly representing a 360 pano. Panoramio has a different icon if you have just a photo or a portfolio, An icon looking like a "360 Favicon" would better represent the 360 photo and give more evidence to our photos for non expert people. IMPORTANT.
B - The red icon should receive in general a preferred visibility and be better placed: today at large zoom levels our icons are often covered by the Panoramio icons.
C - The effects of clicking on the icons are totally different in the case you click on one Panoramio icon or on one 360Cities icon.
1 - In you single click apparently the result is the same: one sprite with similar contents. But then if you click again on the miniature in the sprite. in case of Panoramio you are readdressed to a page with the photo plus a lot of details including Panoramio logo, Author, links to Author's portfolio, etc. In our case if you click on the miniature you are directly addressed to a "Photo Mode" or something like that without any indication of 360Cities, Author, title, description. Just the picture, no credit, no acknowledgement. UNFAIR!
2 - If you simply double click (what most people probably do) on the icons the effect is even more evident. In case of Panoramio pratically nothing changes: it is like a single click. In our Red icon case the effect is that you are directly readdressed to the 360 photo. Simply skipping all details as above. No credits, etc ... The photo is a nobody's property. VERY UNFAIR!
D - In many locations GE allows to enable the 3D building view. Beautiful. Unfortunately if you took a picture of an internal of the building (of course approved and embedded by GE) our famous red icon is in most of such cases almost invisible because it is mostly covered by the 3D perspectives of the reconstructed building. This applies in general but is very evident in particular when you zoom in. This problem applies partially also to outside panos of famous buildings but the hiding effect is normally less evident and you have th possibility to move around. SERIOUS.
I am sure you are aware of those issues and I hope you share my willing to make the best use of GE but preserving at the same time the best credits and visibility to the 360cities organization and to Author's work.
Your comments before and after the meeting are welcomed.
Pietro
Good morning!
I read that you and your collegues are going to meet Google people in the coming days. I would like to provide you with some personal comments concerning Google Earth service:
- Premise: GE is a valuable tool to promote and improve our visibility, but ... :
A - The Red Square Icon for the 360Cities panos is too dispersed in the crowded mass of Panoramio icons. This especially if the photographed place is a quite famous one. The red icon is in fact not clearly representing a 360 pano. Panoramio has a different icon if you have just a photo or a portfolio, An icon looking like a "360 Favicon" would better represent the 360 photo and give more evidence to our photos for non expert people. IMPORTANT.
B - The red icon should receive in general a preferred visibility and be better placed: today at large zoom levels our icons are often covered by the Panoramio icons.
C - The effects of clicking on the icons are totally different in the case you click on one Panoramio icon or on one 360Cities icon.
1 - In you single click apparently the result is the same: one sprite with similar contents. But then if you click again on the miniature in the sprite. in case of Panoramio you are readdressed to a page with the photo plus a lot of details including Panoramio logo, Author, links to Author's portfolio, etc. In our case if you click on the miniature you are directly addressed to a "Photo Mode" or something like that without any indication of 360Cities, Author, title, description. Just the picture, no credit, no acknowledgement. UNFAIR!
2 - If you simply double click (what most people probably do) on the icons the effect is even more evident. In case of Panoramio pratically nothing changes: it is like a single click. In our Red icon case the effect is that you are directly readdressed to the 360 photo. Simply skipping all details as above. No credits, etc ... The photo is a nobody's property. VERY UNFAIR!
D - In many locations GE allows to enable the 3D building view. Beautiful. Unfortunately if you took a picture of an internal of the building (of course approved and embedded by GE) our famous red icon is in most of such cases almost invisible because it is mostly covered by the 3D perspectives of the reconstructed building. This applies in general but is very evident in particular when you zoom in. This problem applies partially also to outside panos of famous buildings but the hiding effect is normally less evident and you have th possibility to move around. SERIOUS.
I am sure you are aware of those issues and I hope you share my willing to make the best use of GE but preserving at the same time the best credits and visibility to the 360cities organization and to Author's work.
Your comments before and after the meeting are welcomed.
Pietro
Tomasz Makarewicz
Mar 28, 2012, 10:17:01 PM3/28/12
to 360Cities Community
I sign this with both hands!!!
On Mar 28, 3:05 pm, Peter Mad <peterm1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jan
> Good morning!
> I read that you and your collegues are going to meet Google people in the
> coming days. I would like to provide you with some personal comments
> concerning Google Earth service:
>
> - Premise: GE is a valuable tool to promote and improve our visibility, but
> ... :
> A - The Red Square Icon for the 360Cities panos is too dispersed in the
> crowded mass of Panoramio icons. This especially if the photographed place
> is a quite famous one. The red icon is in fact not clearly representing a
> 360 pano. Panoramio has a different icon if you have just a photo or a
> portfolio, An icon looking like a "360 Favicon" would better represent the
> 360 photo and give more evidence to our photos for non expert people.
> IMPORTANT.
> B - The red icon should receive in general a preferred visibility and be
> better placed: today at large zoom levels our icons are often covered by
> the Panoramio icons.
>
> C - *The effects of clicking on the icons are totally different in the case
> you click on one Panoramio icon or on one 360Cities icon*.
On Mar 28, 3:05 pm, Peter Mad <peterm1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jan
> Good morning!
> I read that you and your collegues are going to meet Google people in the
> coming days. I would like to provide you with some personal comments
> concerning Google Earth service:
>
> - Premise: GE is a valuable tool to promote and improve our visibility, but
> ... :
> A - The Red Square Icon for the 360Cities panos is too dispersed in the
> crowded mass of Panoramio icons. This especially if the photographed place
> is a quite famous one. The red icon is in fact not clearly representing a
> 360 pano. Panoramio has a different icon if you have just a photo or a
> portfolio, An icon looking like a "360 Favicon" would better represent the
> 360 photo and give more evidence to our photos for non expert people.
> IMPORTANT.
> B - The red icon should receive in general a preferred visibility and be
> better placed: today at large zoom levels our icons are often covered by
> the Panoramio icons.
>
> you click on one Panoramio icon or on one 360Cities icon*.
> 1 - In you single click apparently the result is the same: one sprite with
> similar contents. But then if you click again on the miniature in the
> sprite. in case of Panoramio you are readdressed to a page with the photo
> plus a lot of details including Panoramio logo, Author, links to Author's
> portfolio, etc. In our case if you click on the miniature you are directly
> addressed to a "Photo Mode" or something like that without any indication
> of 360Cities, Author, title, description. Just the picture, no credit, no
> acknowledgement. UNFAIR!
> 2 - If you simply double click (what most people probably do) on the icons
> the effect is even more evident. In case of Panoramio pratically nothing
> changes: it is like a single click. In our Red icon case the effect is that
> you are directly readdressed to the 360 photo. Simply skipping all details
> as above. No credits, etc ... *The photo is a nobody's property*. VERY
> similar contents. But then if you click again on the miniature in the
> sprite. in case of Panoramio you are readdressed to a page with the photo
> plus a lot of details including Panoramio logo, Author, links to Author's
> portfolio, etc. In our case if you click on the miniature you are directly
> addressed to a "Photo Mode" or something like that without any indication
> of 360Cities, Author, title, description. Just the picture, no credit, no
> acknowledgement. UNFAIR!
> 2 - If you simply double click (what most people probably do) on the icons
> the effect is even more evident. In case of Panoramio pratically nothing
> changes: it is like a single click. In our Red icon case the effect is that
> you are directly readdressed to the 360 photo. Simply skipping all details
Carsten T. Rees
Mar 31, 2012, 8:16:42 AM3/31/12
to 360Cities Community
An additional issue I have tried to raise on this group already to no
avail:
Many 360 cities icons are visible on GE only at an etreme zoom in
level. For an examle c.f. my panoramas of the city of Freiburg in
Baden-Württemberg, Germany.
It would be very nice to make those icons visible at an earlier zoom
in levels. Otherwise many panoramas are on GE - but nonetheless in
pratice they are close to invisible.
Carsten T. Rees
avail:
Many 360 cities icons are visible on GE only at an etreme zoom in
level. For an examle c.f. my panoramas of the city of Freiburg in
Baden-Württemberg, Germany.
It would be very nice to make those icons visible at an earlier zoom
in levels. Otherwise many panoramas are on GE - but nonetheless in
pratice they are close to invisible.
Carsten T. Rees
Peter Mad
Apr 1, 2012, 6:33:51 AM4/1/12
to 360c...@googlegroups.com
Hi Carsten
seen both your posts (3rd march and 20th march) and I fully agree. Thx. This gave to me the idea to check the overall visibility in GE.
There is now a strange thing, at least to me. Apparently in the overall quite large 360Cities community there are only 3 persons ( THREE!!!, i.e. we two ... plus Tomasz) concerned about this visibility problem in GE. Being GE is one major vehicle for our panos, if the issues I raised are true ... this should be of interest for quite a bunch of people. Isn't that?
Additionally, as I mentioned, I am interested also in Jan's opinion who, if I noted well, did not answered neither to your mentioned posts.
Happy Sunday
Pietro
seen both your posts (3rd march and 20th march) and I fully agree. Thx. This gave to me the idea to check the overall visibility in GE.
There is now a strange thing, at least to me. Apparently in the overall quite large 360Cities community there are only 3 persons ( THREE!!!, i.e. we two ... plus Tomasz) concerned about this visibility problem in GE. Being GE is one major vehicle for our panos, if the issues I raised are true ... this should be of interest for quite a bunch of people. Isn't that?
Additionally, as I mentioned, I am interested also in Jan's opinion who, if I noted well, did not answered neither to your mentioned posts.
Happy Sunday
Pietro
Geoff - Spherical Visions
Apr 1, 2012, 6:42:00 AM4/1/12
to 360c...@googlegroups.com
The problem has been raised several times, and always seems to be under discussion! Not sure if its 360Cities or Google who decide / insist on the criteria. Personally I would be a lot happier if the viewer was improved but that also seems to be out of 360Cities control.
Mohammad Reza Domiri Ganji
Apr 1, 2012, 1:40:21 PM4/1/12
to 360Cities Community
hi , I have another Problem :) , my best panos ( mostly newest panos
and almost all of my Editors picks ) are not seen in GE unless you
zoom exactly in that place , maybe more than 500 meter . but my old
panos wich some even was taken by Compact camera are shown better and
can be seen without zoom .
I can Understand why you force people to see lower Quality and old
panos ?
why in crowded places which there are more than 1 panos available ,
the oldest one has most chance to be seen , but recent panos have to
be hidden ,
On Mar 28, 11:05 am, Peter Mad <peterm1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jan
> Good morning!
> I read that you and your collegues are going to meet Google people in the
> coming days. I would like to provide you with some personal comments
> concerning Google Earth service:
>
> - Premise: GE is a valuable tool to promote and improve our visibility, but
> ... :
> A - The Red Square Icon for the 360Cities panos is too dispersed in the
> crowded mass of Panoramio icons. This especially if the photographed place
> is a quite famous one. The red icon is in fact not clearly representing a
> 360 pano. Panoramio has a different icon if you have just a photo or a
> portfolio, An icon looking like a "360 Favicon" would better represent the
> 360 photo and give more evidence to our photos for non expert people.
> IMPORTANT.
> B - The red icon should receive in general a preferred visibility and be
> better placed: today at large zoom levels our icons are often covered by
> the Panoramio icons.
>
> C - *The effects of clicking on the icons are totally different in the case
> you click on one Panoramio icon or on one 360Cities icon*.
and almost all of my Editors picks ) are not seen in GE unless you
zoom exactly in that place , maybe more than 500 meter . but my old
panos wich some even was taken by Compact camera are shown better and
can be seen without zoom .
I can Understand why you force people to see lower Quality and old
panos ?
why in crowded places which there are more than 1 panos available ,
the oldest one has most chance to be seen , but recent panos have to
be hidden ,
On Mar 28, 11:05 am, Peter Mad <peterm1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jan
> Good morning!
> I read that you and your collegues are going to meet Google people in the
> coming days. I would like to provide you with some personal comments
> concerning Google Earth service:
>
> - Premise: GE is a valuable tool to promote and improve our visibility, but
> ... :
> A - The Red Square Icon for the 360Cities panos is too dispersed in the
> crowded mass of Panoramio icons. This especially if the photographed place
> is a quite famous one. The red icon is in fact not clearly representing a
> 360 pano. Panoramio has a different icon if you have just a photo or a
> portfolio, An icon looking like a "360 Favicon" would better represent the
> 360 photo and give more evidence to our photos for non expert people.
> IMPORTANT.
> B - The red icon should receive in general a preferred visibility and be
> better placed: today at large zoom levels our icons are often covered by
> the Panoramio icons.
>
> you click on one Panoramio icon or on one 360Cities icon*.
> 1 - In you single click apparently the result is the same: one sprite with
> similar contents. But then if you click again on the miniature in the
> sprite. in case of Panoramio you are readdressed to a page with the photo
> plus a lot of details including Panoramio logo, Author, links to Author's
> portfolio, etc. In our case if you click on the miniature you are directly
> addressed to a "Photo Mode" or something like that without any indication
> of 360Cities, Author, title, description. Just the picture, no credit, no
> acknowledgement. UNFAIR!
> 2 - If you simply double click (what most people probably do) on the icons
> the effect is even more evident. In case of Panoramio pratically nothing
> changes: it is like a single click. In our Red icon case the effect is that
> you are directly readdressed to the 360 photo. Simply skipping all details
> as above. No credits, etc ... *The photo is a nobody's property*. VERY
> similar contents. But then if you click again on the miniature in the
> sprite. in case of Panoramio you are readdressed to a page with the photo
> plus a lot of details including Panoramio logo, Author, links to Author's
> portfolio, etc. In our case if you click on the miniature you are directly
> addressed to a "Photo Mode" or something like that without any indication
> of 360Cities, Author, title, description. Just the picture, no credit, no
> acknowledgement. UNFAIR!
> 2 - If you simply double click (what most people probably do) on the icons
> the effect is even more evident. In case of Panoramio pratically nothing
> changes: it is like a single click. In our Red icon case the effect is that
> you are directly readdressed to the 360 photo. Simply skipping all details
HighDesertView
Apr 1, 2012, 5:57:08 PM4/1/12
to 360c...@googlegroups.com
I'd say this is one of the more repeated topics, though it doesn't come up nearly as often as "Why doesn't my pano qualify for GE?"
I gather from previous posts that there is at least some amount of control exercised by 360cities as to what altitude or zoom level individual panos appear:
I for one would like to see the formula.
I've wondered too about separating types of 360s. For a while the first panos visible around me from high altitude were truck stops and skateboard parks (still true, now that I just pulled up GE). And I live in one of the most scenic places in the US! I don't know about you, but I when I load up GE, I want to look at interesting scenic or historic places that I might travel to. Let me zoom into urban areas when I'm looking for an interesting urban setting. The thing is, I mostly know what I might find in a city. What I don't necessarily know is what's outside the city. I want things outside the city to show at high altitude, not the reverse.
Mostly, I'd be happy to see some opportunity for the community to discuss and contribute to the formula for visibility in GE.
John.
Marcelo Botta
Apr 1, 2012, 8:35:59 PM4/1/12
to 360c...@googlegroups.com
Of course there are more people interested than just us writing...
Another idea: maybe we can give our panos some sort of priority, like a point system or stack order, which can affect the famous display the altitude visibility fórmula?
Another idea: maybe we can give our panos some sort of priority, like a point system or stack order, which can affect the famous display the altitude visibility fórmula?
Peter Mad
Apr 2, 2012, 10:12:25 AM4/2/12
to 360c...@googlegroups.com
Geoff
I don't think I have discovered anything new. But if I go back on this forum I see a lot of posts on GE details (selection, uploads, timing, etc.) but not many discussions regarding the most serious location/altitude icon problems like Karsten's, John's or Reza's. And actually the fact that the matter is still on the table it means to me that the MATTER IS VERY RELEVANT.
BUT I also add the particular issue of the different behaviour of GE in the clicking effects between Panoramio and 360Cities (point C in my first post). Unless I am wrong this is a behaviour that I consider, as I said, really UNFAIR: for our 360 panos under likely circumstances the visitor doesn't see neither the Author's name nor the 360Cities Group. In fact there is consequently no copyright indication unless one embeds its logo in the 360 pano. Something that many 360Cities people (including myself at the moment) don't do.
Finally concerning your point regarding the ownership of the problem (Google or 360Cities) I believe that 360Cities should collect the different improvement suggestions from the concerned members (is there any other suggestion?), rise constantly the problems with GE people and give us a feedback on the progress achieved. This is the reason why I was addressing my first post to Jan.
I hope Jan will feedback us and we will succeed with GE: we bring GE a lot of professional pictures and conversely we can take advantage of GE platform. With some improvements we can all achieve a better result.
Pietro
I don't think I have discovered anything new. But if I go back on this forum I see a lot of posts on GE details (selection, uploads, timing, etc.) but not many discussions regarding the most serious location/altitude icon problems like Karsten's, John's or Reza's. And actually the fact that the matter is still on the table it means to me that the MATTER IS VERY RELEVANT.
BUT I also add the particular issue of the different behaviour of GE in the clicking effects between Panoramio and 360Cities (point C in my first post). Unless I am wrong this is a behaviour that I consider, as I said, really UNFAIR: for our 360 panos under likely circumstances the visitor doesn't see neither the Author's name nor the 360Cities Group. In fact there is consequently no copyright indication unless one embeds its logo in the 360 pano. Something that many 360Cities people (including myself at the moment) don't do.
Finally concerning your point regarding the ownership of the problem (Google or 360Cities) I believe that 360Cities should collect the different improvement suggestions from the concerned members (is there any other suggestion?), rise constantly the problems with GE people and give us a feedback on the progress achieved. This is the reason why I was addressing my first post to Jan.
I hope Jan will feedback us and we will succeed with GE: we bring GE a lot of professional pictures and conversely we can take advantage of GE platform. With some improvements we can all achieve a better result.
Pietro
Geoff - Spherical Visions
Apr 2, 2012, 3:15:28 PM4/2/12
to 360c...@googlegroups.com
Perhaps it would be nice to add 360Cities Pano's to Google Maps view now that the Map view supports the GE viewing method and also of course the Pictures options, that would bring many more hits than GE does I believe! But please a decent viewer with a momentum function even if we have to drag rather than point!
Jan Vrsinsky | User Advocate, 360Cities
Apr 3, 2012, 8:39:39 AM4/3/12
to 360c...@googlegroups.com
Thanks for all suggestions and comments. We are listening. Some things are completely out of our control. Other things we can only ask for. Jeffrey Martin, the founder of 360Cities, is currently at Where 2.0, where he had and will have meetings with folks at Google. We'll see.
Christian Hartmann
May 18, 2012, 12:57:29 PM5/18/12
to 360c...@googlegroups.com
Whats the result of your Google team meeting? I think at the moment is something wrong with the 360cities layer on GE and thats also an disadvantage for the 360cities comany :-) I have compare the 360cities map with GE. In many areas are only a few panos on 360cities - no complicated ranking algorithm necessary, they can show all. But in GE is there noithing ! The user must zoom in as deep as they can see the pixels of the map. Nobody do it and so nobody will see the panos and connect to 360cities.
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