WSPR-X
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n6gn
Jan 20, 2013, 10:15:31 AM1/20/13
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As some of you may already have noticed, Joe, K1JT, has released a 0.7 version of WSPR-X for Windows. This is a combination of the WSPR-2 protocol we are using and WSPR-15 which is like it but takes 8 times longer for a segment. The advantage of the addition is an additional 9 dB of S/N. Signals as weak as -39 dBm may decode.
I think this may turn out to be very interesting to those of us examining 2m+ propagation. Not only can it dig out weaker signals, but the 15 minute sequence is proving interesting for getting a better understanding of ACS. Joe redid the waterfall as a separate window that is also broader than the old 200 Hz one. At 2m I think we can now see Doppler signals from aircraft departing two stations at 465 mph groundspeed (1300 Hz) and those approaching at almost 700 mph (1800 Hz). I think this will help us identify individual aircraft responsible for particular spots and probably give guidance on how to make mid-DX QSO via ACS on all amateur VHF-microwave bands.
I've written previously about the regularity of reports folks on 1296 SSB see weekly between the SF Bay Area and LA area which I can only attribute to ACS. We may be able to make good measurements of radar cross section of aircraft types and, by extension, the required station equipment to work these kinds of DX on a given band.
WSPR-15 has 1/8 the symbol rate and shift of WSPR-2 as well. This means that to use it even on a band as low as 2m we are going to have to have stations with an order of magnitude better stability than is required for the WSPR we presently use. I hope that the few of us already GPS referenced and stabilized will be able to start experimenting with it on 2m and 70cm very soon and that a couple of pilot units of the external PLL box will be ready for some additional stations to play with all this not too much later.
Attached to this is a screen shot this morning showing K6PZB, KC6KGE and KP4MD decodes on the WSPR-X display.
Glenn n6gn
I think this may turn out to be very interesting to those of us examining 2m+ propagation. Not only can it dig out weaker signals, but the 15 minute sequence is proving interesting for getting a better understanding of ACS. Joe redid the waterfall as a separate window that is also broader than the old 200 Hz one. At 2m I think we can now see Doppler signals from aircraft departing two stations at 465 mph groundspeed (1300 Hz) and those approaching at almost 700 mph (1800 Hz). I think this will help us identify individual aircraft responsible for particular spots and probably give guidance on how to make mid-DX QSO via ACS on all amateur VHF-microwave bands.
I've written previously about the regularity of reports folks on 1296 SSB see weekly between the SF Bay Area and LA area which I can only attribute to ACS. We may be able to make good measurements of radar cross section of aircraft types and, by extension, the required station equipment to work these kinds of DX on a given band.
WSPR-15 has 1/8 the symbol rate and shift of WSPR-2 as well. This means that to use it even on a band as low as 2m we are going to have to have stations with an order of magnitude better stability than is required for the WSPR we presently use. I hope that the few of us already GPS referenced and stabilized will be able to start experimenting with it on 2m and 70cm very soon and that a couple of pilot units of the external PLL box will be ready for some additional stations to play with all this not too much later.
Attached to this is a screen shot this morning showing K6PZB, KC6KGE and KP4MD decodes on the WSPR-X display.
Glenn n6gn
Steven Hess
Jan 20, 2013, 2:23:21 PM1/20/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I was reading about WSPR X yesterday and wsprnet.org.
The longer duty cycle means I'd have to lower my output and add in an external RF amplifier I fear even with the frequency stability modification. I don't think the FT-857 could handle that time period at 20 watts or even 5 watts.
My next outlay here will be the GPS reference you all are building. Then I'll have to figure out a way to integrate the reference and the FT-857d without damaging the transceiver and in a way that allows it to be returned to the stock configuration. I'd use the IC-706 but I don't think it hears very well above 30 Mhz. Seems I have to run the preamp to hear anything above 30 Mhz. Me work on SMDs? I don't think so. My hands are too unsteady.
I have to come up with a way to finance the Flex-1500 and 2 meter transverter that has a input for the 10 MHz frequency reference it looks like. That is a outlay that will take me a long time to bankroll. I want a good Network Analyzer first though.
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Glenn Elmore
Jan 20, 2013, 3:09:29 PM1/20/13
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Steve,
You are correct about the longer duty cycle being more taxing of our transmitters. Most manufacturers seem to tell you what power and what duty cycle they can support. Sometimes RTTY specs are at or near 100% duty cycle. The bottom line is that we may have to run 3 dB (or something) less power in order to keep the PA cool enough. The external amplifier, run within spec for 100% duty cycle, like Carol is using is probably a good option as it keeps from stressing other components in the radio such as the receiver.
Also, keep in mind that an AB class final, of the type we use for SSB, has quiescent current that is perhaps 10-20% of maximum. This means that the amplifier gets warm even with no signal. It also means that powers under ~10% of full rating, probably don't incrementally heat the radio much. Thus you may be able to easily run 10 watts on a 100w radio all day long without much heating. 50 or 100w might be a different story and we're probably all best measuring to see what happens before we leave it running that way.
I run the preamp on my 706 on 2m all the time too. I think it does help the noise figure of the radio and this may even be mentioned in the spec.
You are one we especially want to see with GPS phase lock. I've been sick for a few days so haven't made the progress I hoped but the pilot run boards have an integrated VCXO. We are making SMB & MCX cables as necessary. This means that all one needs to add is .1" header socket to terminate the radio end of the coax. The 'modification' consists of removing the TCXO that's in the radio (it unplugs) and plugging in this end of the coax with the socket. We'll verify all this on Doug, WW6D's, FT897 which uses the same oscillator first. We think all you'll have to do is put the GPS antenna outside (we can provide some extension cable if you have a hard time getting there on the 12' (?) cable that comes with the antenna, plug in the coax/socket and give the box 11-15 VDC at about 1/3 of an ampere from a decent wall wart. It will acquire satellites, indicate 10 MHz lock and also indicate 22.625000 Yaesu master oscillator lock. The radio should then work as normal except it should be good to .1 ppb once things are stable.
Note that while the flex has an external master oscillator input for 10 MHz, which the box also puts out, most transverters have an LO that must be locked as well. I don't know which you are considering but we are trying to solve this problem for Carol's situation. She has a Flex and Elecraft transverter with a 116.000000 MHz oscillator. I'm planning on proving the external PLL box with this frequency, in addition to the 22.625 and 30.2 and other odd frequencies that Yaesu, IC910, IC7000 and so on use. Hopefully it is a fairly general solution that can be used with most stations where the main radio uses a single master oscillator.
I agree with you about the network analyzer priority. Perhaps my next task, even on the way to bringing up the rest of the pilot run external PLL is to repair the switching power supply in my HP8753 which has gone intermittant. :-(
Hang in there, you're on the list and we don't plan on you having to do much to get on the air.
Glenn n6gn
You are correct about the longer duty cycle being more taxing of our transmitters. Most manufacturers seem to tell you what power and what duty cycle they can support. Sometimes RTTY specs are at or near 100% duty cycle. The bottom line is that we may have to run 3 dB (or something) less power in order to keep the PA cool enough. The external amplifier, run within spec for 100% duty cycle, like Carol is using is probably a good option as it keeps from stressing other components in the radio such as the receiver.
Also, keep in mind that an AB class final, of the type we use for SSB, has quiescent current that is perhaps 10-20% of maximum. This means that the amplifier gets warm even with no signal. It also means that powers under ~10% of full rating, probably don't incrementally heat the radio much. Thus you may be able to easily run 10 watts on a 100w radio all day long without much heating. 50 or 100w might be a different story and we're probably all best measuring to see what happens before we leave it running that way.
I run the preamp on my 706 on 2m all the time too. I think it does help the noise figure of the radio and this may even be mentioned in the spec.
You are one we especially want to see with GPS phase lock. I've been sick for a few days so haven't made the progress I hoped but the pilot run boards have an integrated VCXO. We are making SMB & MCX cables as necessary. This means that all one needs to add is .1" header socket to terminate the radio end of the coax. The 'modification' consists of removing the TCXO that's in the radio (it unplugs) and plugging in this end of the coax with the socket. We'll verify all this on Doug, WW6D's, FT897 which uses the same oscillator first. We think all you'll have to do is put the GPS antenna outside (we can provide some extension cable if you have a hard time getting there on the 12' (?) cable that comes with the antenna, plug in the coax/socket and give the box 11-15 VDC at about 1/3 of an ampere from a decent wall wart. It will acquire satellites, indicate 10 MHz lock and also indicate 22.625000 Yaesu master oscillator lock. The radio should then work as normal except it should be good to .1 ppb once things are stable.
Note that while the flex has an external master oscillator input for 10 MHz, which the box also puts out, most transverters have an LO that must be locked as well. I don't know which you are considering but we are trying to solve this problem for Carol's situation. She has a Flex and Elecraft transverter with a 116.000000 MHz oscillator. I'm planning on proving the external PLL box with this frequency, in addition to the 22.625 and 30.2 and other odd frequencies that Yaesu, IC910, IC7000 and so on use. Hopefully it is a fairly general solution that can be used with most stations where the main radio uses a single master oscillator.
I agree with you about the network analyzer priority. Perhaps my next task, even on the way to bringing up the rest of the pilot run external PLL is to repair the switching power supply in my HP8753 which has gone intermittant. :-(
Hang in there, you're on the list and we don't plan on you having to do much to get on the air.
Glenn n6gn
n3...@aol.com
Jan 20, 2013, 3:14:48 PM1/20/13
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Am I missing something? His notes says it is best suited for 137 Khz and 500 Khz. Might work on 160 meters but not recommend for HF. So 2 meters is way high?
Glenn Elmore
Jan 20, 2013, 3:32:29 PM1/20/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Your not missing what his notes said and I think they are correct in
describing the mode as inappropriate for HF where the ionosphere is
ill defined and moving, thus spreading the signal. However, we have
found this *not* to be the case at 2m and 70cm. He mentions
"Doppler" as a problem here but it turns out that the ACS we see
moves through so fast that it rarely causes a problem.
For this reason, it is looking like we might run the very narrowband version of WSPR with great success at VHF and UHF. As I said, it does require rather good frequency stability in a 15 minute window and we'll have to verify this first (which we are just about to do) but it looks promising.
One of the clues that VHF/UHF propagation, beyond the ionosphere involvement, is useful for high frequency precision was a test we did here in the Santa Rosa valley where we transmitted the 43rd harmonic of a GPSDO at 20 watts and compared the received signal over a couple of non-LOS paths. The results were excellent and it was also a good way to compare two separate GPSDOs to quite good accuracy. This accuracy is at least 4 orders of magnitude better than what one can do with WWV at HF - due to the ionospheric spreading/corruption.
I'm hopeful, there may still be a fly in the ointment but we're going to see what happens.
Glenn n6gn
:
For this reason, it is looking like we might run the very narrowband version of WSPR with great success at VHF and UHF. As I said, it does require rather good frequency stability in a 15 minute window and we'll have to verify this first (which we are just about to do) but it looks promising.
One of the clues that VHF/UHF propagation, beyond the ionosphere involvement, is useful for high frequency precision was a test we did here in the Santa Rosa valley where we transmitted the 43rd harmonic of a GPSDO at 20 watts and compared the received signal over a couple of non-LOS paths. The results were excellent and it was also a good way to compare two separate GPSDOs to quite good accuracy. This accuracy is at least 4 orders of magnitude better than what one can do with WWV at HF - due to the ionospheric spreading/corruption.
I'm hopeful, there may still be a fly in the ointment but we're going to see what happens.
Glenn n6gn
:
Steven Hess
Jan 20, 2013, 5:35:36 PM1/20/13
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I thought about this while I was out power walking today. I think the WSPR X path that makes sense to me from a economic stand point currently is sticking with the FT-857d with the additional GSPDO and a RM Italy KL 145H High VHF 2 Meter Linear Amplifier with supplemental cooling fans run at 20 watts.
The transverter I want has a input for a external frequency reference now but we are talking about a $600 to $700 dollar purchase tied to the $700 for a Flex-1500. The Flex-1500 will have a bunch of DPC snakes that need to be conquered for reliable USB communications with as little latency as possible between the Flex-1500 and computer possibly. There are also issues of VAC latency routing the output of PowerSDR's audio chain to the digital communications program in this case WSPR or WSPR X that can become a issue. I know KP4MD has conquered these issues if she even had them as every PowerSDR/FlexRadio setup is a different environment. So for now I have a path to WSPR X planned.
Looks like I will get the Antenna Analyzer / Network Analyzer sooner or later with this path. Then I can attempt to get a stacked pair or omnidirectional VHF antennas up about 30 feet so I can hear to the side without losing too much gain to the north.
Line Printer
Jan 21, 2013, 10:43:13 AM1/21/13
to n6gn, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013, n6gn wrote:
> As some of you may already have noticed, Joe, K1JT, has released a 0.7 version of WSPR-X for Windows. This is a
> combination of the WSPR-2 protocol we are using and WSPR-15 which is like it but takes 8 times longer for a segment.
I had noticed after putting together one of the previous development WSPR
> As some of you may already have noticed, Joe, K1JT, has released a 0.7 version of WSPR-X for Windows. This is a
> combination of the WSPR-2 protocol we are using and WSPR-15 which is like it but takes 8 times longer for a segment.
releases, the application came with a "Mode" entry in the menu. Under
mode, there are two choices: WSPR-2 and WSPR-1.5. The "WSPR-2" was the
default and not having read any of the Changelog or looking into the diffs
in the repository, I was sure that an entry for WSPR-3 should have been
available as a Mode choice.
I wondered why anyone would pick WSPR-1.5 Mode - unless is was something
legacy related. So, of course, I picked WSPR-1.5. I noticed the
frequency changed slightly and the time periods now began on the odd
minute but would look into those later. I didn't hear any
received signals but it seemed the application was hung. I clicked the
"Tx Next" and waited to observe if it transmitted normally.
At some time later, it was transmitting and I began to wonder if the the 2
minute period was taking a long time...... After a while, I
noticed it was still transmitting and looking at the clock made me
realized it had been transmitting around 10 minutes. I killed it....
It turns out that the WSPR-4 (and WSPR-3.9) operate as expected (in the
WSPR-2 Mode) as well as in the new optional slow mode when set to the
WSPR-1.5 mode. This seems to allow a WSPR-4 application to be compatible
and functional with the new WSPR-X application.
The WSPR-X application has changed the how the received signals are
displayed which looks like more information is easily visible (compared to
the WSPR-4 display). WSPR-X is also based on C++ and QT - which is
handy if you like qmake. :)
I've attached an image of WSPR-4 running normally in the WSPR-2 mode on 2
Meters. It does highlight the WSPR Mode by indicating a green "WSPR-2" on
the lower margin of the window.
It's amazing what I can eventually learn by reading the documents!
Looking Forward to WSPR-6,
Kevin Martinez
KI6STW
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n6gn
Jan 21, 2013, 9:01:55 PM1/21/13
to
To follow up, Bob, WA6M and I have run WSPR-15 today on both 2 m and on 70 cm. The results have been excellent.
The first attachment is a screenshot of the 2m console after several spots.
The second is the experiment repeated on 432.300 dial.
The third is the waterfall associated with the last spot.
As you can see, there is no discernible frequency spreading and no QRM from ACS or other to cause a problem. I think there may in fact be some ACS but since this is a 15 minute record, it needs less averaging to spread it out to better examine signals of that type.
The first attachment is a screenshot of the 2m console after several spots.
The second is the experiment repeated on 432.300 dial.
The third is the waterfall associated with the last spot.
As you can see, there is no discernible frequency spreading and no QRM from ACS or other to cause a problem. I think there may in fact be some ACS but since this is a 15 minute record, it needs less averaging to spread it out to better examine signals of that type.
Steven Hess
Jan 21, 2013, 9:08:48 PM1/21/13
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I am very much liking the waterfall display.
I very much want to try this when the GSPDO setup is in place and tested.
Minor setback here today. My TS-2000 lost it's display and front panel controls.
It's boxed waiting at the local FedEX shipper heading to AVVid in Texas for assesment
Looks like my RM Italy two meter amp will be delayed slightly. The supplemental fan has been ordered for it already.
I am using a HTX-404 and a MFJ speaker mic for my UHF base right now. At least I am still making RF on UHF
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