432 MHz WSPR

999 views
Skip to first unread message

n6gn

unread,
Jun 28, 2013, 3:32:23 PM6/28/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com

Now that we have several stations stable and accurate, I'm wondering about the interest in a regular time for trying 432 MHz WSPR.
WW6D, K6PZB, WA6M and N6GN have all run on 432.300 dial on and off but perhaps a more concerted effort makes sense now.

432 has some different challenges compared to 2m. Even with frequency stability solved the generally smaller physical antenna apertures, along with worsening foliage and terrain attenuation, make it more of a challenge. For ACS signals, we can expect three times the frequency offset.  Since it appears that much or all of the longer DX 2m spots involves ACS, it will be interesting to see if we can find aircraft on routes that support standard 2 minute WSPR.

WA6M and N6GN have already tried WSPR-15 on 432.3 with very good success. This can give us almost another 10 dB of sensitivity which might help make up for some of the above issues. However, it may make ACS related propagation unusable since the frequency 'stability' requirements are eight times as severe and we don't yet know how constant the DX WSPR spots, such as those between KC6KGE and Northern California, really are. WSPR 2 doesn't report perceived drift with less than 1 Hz resolution so even ACS paths that appear to have 0 drift on WSPR v2 may be unusable on 432 with WSPR v15.

At present, WW6D, WA6M, KI6STW, KC6KGE, N6GN have radios that support 432.  K6PZB is awaiting repair or replacement of an IC706 in order to become QRU on 432 again. It's possible, but I think not proven that N6KOG may have enough stability. I can't remember  what the results were when we last tried.

Of these, I think KI6STW and KC6KGE may not yet have 432 antennas with significant aperture/gain.  With the larger aperture/gain comes increased directivity. This means that we may have organize our efforts more than for HF or even 2m WSPR.  It would seem that the Sonoma County stations are clustered close enough, with the possible exception of WA6M, that they might be considered as a bloc when trying to run with KI6STW or KC6KGE.

We have had a couple of "432 Tuesdays" but I don't think there's a strong preference for any particular day. 

So my questions are, "Is there interest in running regularly on 432 WSPR?",  "What more do we need to start?"  "How should we go about trying it?"

Glenn n6gn

Steven Hess

unread,
Jun 28, 2013, 3:38:47 PM6/28/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I don't have a suitable antenna for 430 MHz.
I really want to put my effort into a better 144 MHz antenna and support structure on that first.
I'd be up to it if I had the antenna for it however. 

Steven  


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "2 Meter WSPR" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to 2-meter-wspr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/2-meter-wspr.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 



--
____________
Apply appropriate technology. Use what works without prejudice.  
Steven L Hess ARS KC6KGE DM05gd22
Google Voice 661 769 6201 +SMS
openSUSE Linux 12.2 KDE 4.8.5
Known as FlameBait and  The Sock Puppet of Doom.

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Jun 28, 2013, 3:50:36 PM6/28/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I think we could come up with a perfectly fine and inexpensive homebrew design. Perhaps one using the old NBS design data made from 1/2" Cu water pipe and brazing rod. I've designed, built and measured these carefully at 900 MHz and I'm sure we can get good performance for not much cost. Though I think we could design a feed/match that would get us a good portion of 420-450, I see no reason for targetting much other than 432 -433 MHz.

The support for an antenna like this is another matter though.  I'm not sure what to do about that. It's not heavy but it might be fairly long and we do want it as high as practical.

What boom length could everyone tolerate for 432?   Longer means more signal resulting from higher directivity. This makes any tests and studies more point-point.

Glenn

Line Printer

unread,
Jun 28, 2013, 3:58:03 PM6/28/13
to n6gn, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
On Fri, 28 Jun 2013, n6gn wrote:

> Of these, I think KI6STW and KC6KGE may not yet have 432 antennas with significant aperture/gain.ᅵ With the
> larger aperture/gain comes increased directivity. This means that we may have organize our efforts more than
> for HF or even 2m WSPR.ᅵ It would seem that the Sonoma County stations are clustered close enough, with the
> possible exception of WA6M, that they might be considered as a bloc when trying to run with KI6STW or KC6KGE.

My 2 meter antenna hasn't been spotted yet when used for 432 MHz WSPR
activities......

I do have a nifty 7 element antenna that may be useful for 432 MHz WSPR
transmissions. It is currently confined to the inside of the office for
the moment. It would need some elevation and directional control to be
useful. I picked it up from HSC Electronics.


Image:
https://picasaweb.google.com/112916124640757906440/NonarthopodicAntenna#5744075011289411922

Kevin Martinez
KI6STW


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Line Printer System | HODIE NATUS EST RADICI FRATER
lps at rahul 'dot' net | 645/6180 BOS/BCE
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steven Hess

unread,
Jun 28, 2013, 5:05:03 PM6/28/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Anything over a 16 foot boom and I'll have a hard time fitting it in.
It could go above my future replaced 2 meter beam. 

On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Line Printer <l...@rahul.net> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jun 2013, n6gn wrote:

Of these, I think KI6STW and KC6KGE may not yet have 432 antennas with significant aperture/gain.  With the

larger aperture/gain comes increased directivity. This means that we may have organize our efforts more than
for HF or even 2m WSPR.  It would seem that the Sonoma County stations are clustered close enough, with the

possible exception of WA6M, that they might be considered as a bloc when trying to run with KI6STW or KC6KGE.
My 2 meter antenna hasn't been spotted yet when used for 432 MHz WSPR activities......

I do have a nifty 7 element antenna that may be useful for 432 MHz WSPR transmissions.  It is currently confined to the inside of the office for the moment.   It would need some elevation and directional control to be useful.   I picked it up from HSC Electronics.


Image:
https://picasaweb.google.com/112916124640757906440/NonarthopodicAntenna#5744075011289411922

Kevin Martinez
KI6STW


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Line Printer System          |       HODIE NATUS EST RADICI FRATER
 lps at rahul 'dot' net         |             645/6180 BOS/BCE
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "2 Meter WSPR" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to 2-meter-wspr+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/2-meter-wspr.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


Steven Hess

unread,
Jun 28, 2013, 5:47:15 PM6/28/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
This one have a useful amount of gain? 

http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/csh-a43011s

Seems  fine for my assembly skill level. 

The M2 I built for 220 years ago was way too much trouble
I like the screw through the element attachments even if they might be noisy and not as efficient.
Better than my measuring skills and eyeballs aligning the elements. 

Steven Hess

unread,
Jun 28, 2013, 6:13:56 PM6/28/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Thats a very nice antenna Kevin. Pretty idiot proof. Looks pricey 
It needs more elements. 

I need at least 11 or more. I am way the heck down here. I'll need all the RX gain I can muster. 

I am very cost sensitive. 

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Jun 28, 2013, 7:02:57 PM6/28/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
How about something like this, built for 432 instead of 904?
http://www.sonic.net/~n6gn/antenna/oldyagi.pdf
This one would be just under 10' long for 432 and could be made from a single piece of hardware store They really aren't difficult to construct and can be built for just over the price of the copper boom material, on the order of $10.
The feed is a folded dipole just bent brass soldered to a through brazing rod rod element and fed with a coaxial balun
 http://www.sonic.net/~n6gn/antenna/a2.gif
Here's one mounted from behind on a push-up mast: http://www.sonic.net/~n6gn/antenna/a1.gif  I wouldn't mount a 432 one this way because of the weight but a metal gusset plate and four U-clamps would be fine and let it balance OK.  They need to be painted to keep the brazing rod from corroding and degrading them in a rather insidious manner, but if you do paint them, they seem to weather OK.

This antenna has gain measured on an outdoor range  of about 14 dBd, as I remember. Mounted too low and the peak of the main lobe may be tilted up 20 or 30 degrees. This isn't a characteristic of this particular antenna, it's just the physics of yagis near ground.

It's more work than the commercial ones but should be pretty cheap.

Glenn n6gn
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to 2-meter-wspr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/2-meter-wspr.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


--
____________
Apply appropriate technology. Use what works without prejudice.  
Steven L Hess ARS KC6KGE DM05gd22
Google Voice 661 769 6201 +SMS
openSUSE Linux 12.2 KDE 4.8.5
Known as FlameBait and  The Sock Puppet of Doom.




--
____________
Apply appropriate technology. Use what works without prejudice.  
Steven L Hess ARS KC6KGE DM05gd22
Google Voice 661 769 6201 +SMS
openSUSE Linux 12.2 KDE 4.8.5
Known as FlameBait and  The Sock Puppet of Doom.




--
____________
Apply appropriate technology. Use what works without prejudice.  
Steven L Hess ARS KC6KGE DM05gd22
Google Voice 661 769 6201 +SMS
openSUSE Linux 12.2 KDE 4.8.5
Known as FlameBait and  The Sock Puppet of Doom.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "2 Meter WSPR" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to 2-meter-wspr...@googlegroups.com.

N6SKM

unread,
Jun 30, 2013, 1:30:23 AM6/30/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com, n6...@sonic.net
Please let me know when you're going to run 432.  In RO, my FT857 shows 0 drift on your GPS signals, so it should be fine on 70cm.  I have a nice antenna for 70cm, with a preamp, as well as two other receivers that can cover that band.  It would be fun to see if I can hear anyone on 70cm WSPR.
Steve, N6SKM

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Jun 30, 2013, 2:03:39 AM6/30/13
to N6SKM, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Steve,
Sounds like a good plan and I think there's a decent chance that you can spot something.  For the time being, let's plan on running 432.300 dial all day Tuesday - from whenever I get up and remember until Wednesday AM.    Doug, Bob, John, Kevin, do you want to try then also?

Glenn

Line Printer

unread,
Jul 1, 2013, 12:40:05 AM7/1/13
to Glenn Elmore, N6SKM, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
On Sat, 29 Jun 2013, Glenn Elmore wrote:

> Sounds like a good plan and I think there's a decent chance that you can spot something.ᅵ For the time being,
> let's plan on running 432.300 dial all day Tuesday - from whenever I get up and remember until Wednesday AM.ᅵᅵᅵ
> Doug, Bob, John, Kevin, do you want to try then also?


Hi,

I'll set it up to run on that frequency. Perhaps I can figure out a way to
mount my UHF antenna on an existing antenna mast. It's more likely I'll be
testing UHF efficiency on my 2 meter antenna. :)

Doug

unread,
Jul 1, 2013, 10:19:20 AM7/1/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com, Glenn Elmore, N6SKM
I will be on 432 tomorrow; there will be a short gap in the morning but should be on tomorrow afternoon until Wednesday.

Doug WW6D

n6gn

unread,
Jul 2, 2013, 2:08:35 PM7/2/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
After just a little bit of WSPR testing it looks like things are working.

 2013-07-02 17:58   N6GN   432.301499   +9   0   CM88ok   20   WW6D   CM88pl   9   57 
 2013-07-02 17:58   N6GN   432.301583   -7   0   CM88ok   20   N6KOG   CM97gs   138   122 
 2013-07-02 17:54   N6KOG   432.301399   -8   0   CM97gs   20   N6GN   CM88ok   138   303 
 2013-07-02 17:52   WW6D   432.301521   +7   0   CM88pl   20   N6GN   CM88ok   9   237 
 2013-07-02 17:46   N6GN   432.301583   -6   0   CM88ok   20   N6KOG   CM97gs   138   122 
 2013-07-02 17:40   WW6D   432.301520   +6   0   CM88pl   20   N6GN   CM88ok   9   237 

Doug's station is just warming up after having the GPSDO off for 10 Hz spur modifications (no sign of any yet) and Steve's signal was perhaps a little stronger earlier but out of band so it didn't decode until I moved the receiver lower. We'll see if the 1 Hz discrepancy disappears with WW6D over time.

N6GN receive is presently centered 50 Hz low for the moment, to return if/when Steve QSY's up in-band.

Is anyone else listening?

Glenn

N6SKM

unread,
Jul 2, 2013, 8:24:09 PM7/2/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Here's what I heard.  At 22:30GMT I rotated the beam from SSE to NNW and got nothing from N6GN or WW6D.
I then put on an amp and got lots more noise, but still no signal.  Next I put up a 16-bay UHF antenna.
Still nothing.  Back to NNW beam and transmitted (SWR 1.7) for a while at 20 watts.  No decodes reported.
Now back to just listening, pointing NNW.
Thanks for the experiment!    Steve,N6SKM

Timestamp          Call       MHz         SNR Drift Grid Pwr Reporter RGrid km az  
2013-07-02 21:36 N6KOG 432.301470 -22   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256  
2013-07-02 21:14 N6KOG 432.301471 -16   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256  
2013-07-02 20:54 N6KOG 432.301470 -17   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256  
2013-07-02 20:32 N6KOG 432.301468   -1   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256  <- WOW!
2013-07-02 20:10 N6KOG 432.301465 -15   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256  
2013-07-02 19:50 N6KOG 432.301463 -14   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256  
2013-07-02 19:28 N6KOG 432.301461 -16   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256  
2013-07-02 19:06 N6KOG 432.301455 -13   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256  
2013-07-02 18:58 N6KOG 432.301425 -11   0   CM97gs 20 N6SKM CM97bq 38 256 

n6gn

unread,
Jul 3, 2013, 1:28:58 AM7/3/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com

Interesting trial.  As can be seen in the database, we had pretty solid success from n6kog to ww6d and n6gn in Sonoma County. Quite a wide range in spot S/N, on the order of 25 dB for the day with the peak (+6) in the AM.   The fog has come in tonight so perhaps that prevented a similar peak this evening.

WA6M reports that he was on but not hearing anyone - even though SSB working to this area.   No sign of others on the waterfall, though I may not have watching at the correct time.

Maybe we can run again next Tuesday which could give an opportunity for any station or antenna rearrangement.

N6GN now returning to 2m.

Glenn n6gn 5:30 UTC

Line Printer

unread,
Jul 3, 2013, 11:03:17 PM7/3/13
to n6gn, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
On Tue, 2 Jul 2013, n6gn wrote:

> Interesting trial.ᅵ As can be seen in the database, we had pretty solid success from n6kog to ww6d and n6gn in
> Sonoma County. Quite a wide range in spot S/N, on the order of 25 dB for the day with the peak (+6) in the
> AM.ᅵᅵ The fog has come in tonight so perhaps that prevented a similar peak this evening.


I kept a close on eye on my WSPR application and for when I wasn't looking
at it, I ensured images of WSPR running were saved for later examination.

Going over the images, I don't see any 432.3 MHz WSPR signals and there
aren't any visible "almost" spotted signals from my receiver. Looking
thru the WSPR spots database, I wasn't being spotted on 432.3 MHz as well.

My 2 meter antenna system is probably greatly less efficient for use with
70 cm wavelengths than I guessed or hoped. After wanting to see some live
432.3 MHz spots, at the end of the day, I decided to try to spot my
signals locally by using my old AR-3000A receiver as KI6STW/2.

I had to "find" what frequency would displayed on the AR-3000A when I was
transmitting on 432.300000 Mhz..... It turned out the AR-3000A VFO seemed
fairly close and I was able to get KI6STW spots! However, the AR-3000A
does not have the frequency control or stability of recent hardware
assisted by the GPS10P. I've attached an image of two KI6STW 432.3 spots
at 02:14 and 02:34 which reveals the AR-3000A thermal drift effects
between the spots.

I've also attached an image of two KI6STW 2 meter spots at 07:14 and
07:34. At this point, there is less frequency change between the spot
instances but the spots are oddly inclined, perhaps a symptom of
"capacitor plague" in the future of this AR-3000A.

I hadn't seen or noticed previously that strong received signals from my
IC-7000 have regularly spaced (in frequency) signals that also are
possible to spot. These signals appear to be bracketed by stronger
signals at +/- 60 hz from the center?

It's possible my High-Tech Ancient secondary WSPR station's configuration
may cause these WSPR spots to appear odd. I used a 50 ohm terminator on
the AR-3000A as the antenna system and tried to balance that out by using
the Astron 35 amp power supply to compensate. ^-^

Antenna image:
https://picasaweb.google.com/112916124640757906440/NonarthopodicAntenna#5896533670127749890

73 + Happy July 4!
wspr-432-catch-2.png
wspr-144-catch.png

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Jul 3, 2013, 11:25:32 PM7/3/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
This all seems reasonable. My only surprise is that you didn't see a
little bit of 432.3 from one of us. Signals are strong enough on 2m that
I thought you might. N6KOG was coming into Sonoma County very well so I
thought you might make it too. Probably need a little work on 432
antenna system - as you have mentioned. I think your yagi will be fine
if you can get it up above the rooftops a bit.
The waterfall and spots look totally reasonable. You still really do
have 10 Hz sidebands that are spottable if signals are strong enough.
The seem to be between 20-30 dB down which is probably correct for 432
(they ought to be 3 times as big up there so almost 10 dB stronger than
as N6SKM measured them on 2m). The stronger 60 lines are either your
sound card or your receiver, I think. It's really easy to get line
related components from ground loops even when everything running on 12
VDC (if it is).

Can we help you get a 432 antenna going? If you want to mail it back, I
can modify the GPS10 for you to fix the 10Hz stuff. That won't fix the
60 Hz problem but that's probably not on your main system so doesn't matter.

Glenn n6gn


On 07/03/2013 08:03 PM, Line Printer wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jul 2013, n6gn wrote:
>
>> Interesting trial. As can be seen in the database, we had pretty
>> solid success from n6kog to ww6d and n6gn in
>> Sonoma County. Quite a wide range in spot S/N, on the order of 25 dB
>> for the day with the peak (+6) in the
>> AM. The fog has come in tonight so perhaps that prevented a similar

N6SKM

unread,
Jul 3, 2013, 11:46:56 PM7/3/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Attached is a listing of all the spots received here in Pleasanton. At 2230 GMT I changed the 7-element 2-meter beam from SSE to NNW, which caused N6KOG to come in even stronger, but no other signals were received.  (There may have been one faint trace, but it didn't decode.)  This was, however, lots of fun, and I got some great exercise on my ladder!
Steve, N6SKM


wspr070213-440-final.jpg

Pamela J. Filicky

unread,
Jul 2, 2013, 9:32:33 PM7/2/13
to N6SKM, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Hello Steve - The "WOW" was when I pointed in your general direction to see if Kevin/KI6STW might
be heard.... Then went back towards 300Degs at N6GN/WW6D... I'll be back-up soon, just too hot in
the garage to operate...
                                             73 Steve/N6KOG

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Jul 4, 2013, 9:33:19 PM7/4/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sorry about the delay on these posts. For some reason Google Groups held
on to them thinking they might be spam and just now let me know...
Glenn




Pamela J. Filicky

unread,
Jul 4, 2013, 11:30:21 PM7/4/13
to n6...@sonic.net, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Now they are....hahahaha. TNX Steve/N6KOG

-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "2 Meter WSPR" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to 2-meter-wspr+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

n6gn

unread,
Jul 9, 2013, 1:48:27 PM7/9/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com

Tuesday 432 WSPR

Slightly late in the morning, I'm now running on 432.300. Bob, WA6M and Doug, WW6D expected to join before too long. Possibly W7PUA to  join also.

Beaming 140 for the moment.  If W7PUA comes on, I may turn the antenna for a while.

Glenn n6gn

Pamela J. Filicky

unread,
Jul 9, 2013, 2:31:58 PM7/9/13
to n6gn, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
GM Glenn & All - I'm up now on 432.300...But really more intrested in working Hawaii on 2Mtrs..But not hearing the
beacon in CM97.. CM96 was hearing it but he is at the coast... So be on 432 OFF & ON.....
                                        Steve/N6KOG

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "2 Meter WSPR" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to 2-meter-wspr...@googlegroups.com.

K6PZB

unread,
Jul 9, 2013, 2:41:20 PM7/9/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I also hear beacon at 432.30140 but am not transmitting--John K6PZB CM88nk

Pamela J. Filicky

unread,
Jul 9, 2013, 2:57:06 PM7/9/13
to K6PZB, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Hello John - Well the kh6hme beacon is at 432.310... I belive theres one in CM87 around 300.. not sure though..
                             73 Steve/N6KOG

From: K6PZB <jwat...@gmail.com>
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 11:41 AM
Subject: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR

Bob Larkin

unread,
Jul 9, 2013, 3:22:18 PM7/9/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Hi All,

I am now running:
Dial 432.300 000; Xmit 432.301 530; 20W; Ant on Bay Area/Sacramento
compromise; Xmit 20% of time

I plan to leave this running until midnight, or so.

This is using the IC-706 MKIIG with Glenn's 30 MHz conversion for GPS
reference. A week or two ago, I ran with W7SZ (about 100 miles north of
me) and it worked fine.

The antenna is a pair of 22-el Yagi's mounted above the 2-m antenna.
That antenna has worked a hand full of stations in the Bay area as well
as the Sacramento area, but using 10 dB more power. It has a plow NF
preamp at the antenna, but I am not using it now due to not being smart
enough to sort out the coax cables. I'll pursue that again, I know I can.

Meanwhile, I will let it run now in the barefoot mode.

73, Bob W7PUA CN84io


Glenn Elmore

unread,
Jul 9, 2013, 5:03:29 PM7/9/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I'm now beaming N.
Glenn n6gn

Bob Larkin

unread,
Jul 9, 2013, 6:24:04 PM7/9/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I am not decoding anything on 432, yet.

For info, a few minutes ago I talked with Larry, W7SZ, and he reports
that K7FL/B, more-or-less in his backyard, is on 432.300 600 and
producing artifacts in the WSPR region up a kHz. He is exploring this
and will report further.

Bob W7PUA

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Jul 9, 2013, 7:23:02 PM7/9/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I initially started with WSPR 2.2.1 where WW6D and I saw each other. I
then moved to WSPR-X, thinking everything was OK since I saw waterfall
and was transmitting. It wasn't, but I just now noticed (2312) the lack
of any spots either way.
I've reverted to WSPR 2.21 and things seem to be working again. WW6D
spotting me and both ways with WA6M.
I'll stay on overnight beaming North.

Glenn n6gn

Bob Larkin

unread,
Jul 10, 2013, 12:24:41 AM7/10/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com, Larry W7SZ
I have had a decode of Bob on 432:
0110 -25 -2.3 432.301490 0 WA6M CM88 37

Then, at 0346 I had a second WSPR trace that did not decode for some
reason, again at 432.301 490 (Not 480). It looked reasonably strong and
nobody else but WA6M is likely to be there. All of Bob's neighbors say
480, the GPS is reporting a good fix (UT+ NMEA) but I saw 490 twice.
This needs more checking before claiming A/C Doppler.!

I will try to catch W7SZ to correlate the frequencies.

73, Bob W7PUA CN84

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Jul 10, 2013, 2:38:18 AM7/10/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I think this is a perfectly good spot and completely consistent with
what we've been seeing on 2m. I believe that virtually *all* the DX
spots we see involve ACS.
At 2m it is common to see spots offset and/or drifting from the known
good transmit frequency. It is only slightly less common to see two
spots at the same time. They would occur more often but the drift is
often more than WSPR can handle.

At 432 all the effects are tripled. What we think of as an "on frequency
spot" is easily 2-3 Hz offset up here. I'm sure that Bob is either on
480 or possibly transmitting (but probably not receiving) .5 Hz low.
Doug and I both see his tx tone lower than it should be while he is
spotting both of us correctly. We've seen this kind of error on typical
sound cards.

One of the reasons, I think, that we don't see more multi-spots and
spots quite far from correct frequency is that the aircraft vector is
pretty well aligned with our paths. Other vectors don't occur as much or
else don't return enough signal for the full two minutes to give us a spot.

One of the other clues that this is ACS is the uniformity of signal
strength. I think we're seeing the 500 square feet (give or take a
factor of several) aircraft cross section with fairly LOS paths from
each station. This also fits the SSB/CW tests that W6PQL has been
running for a long time with the Southern California 1296 net. Every
week the report is the same "From the north, W6PQL S1 to S2 on SSB (or
CW)". Other known propagation mechanisms probably aren't this stable.

I think we are about to the place where we can predict station
requirements for a given S/N given end points. I suspect this will hold
for all of VHF through microwave.

Also it could be that the reason you have spotted Bob and not any of
the others, and vice versa, is likely pretty well explained by
ERP/aperture. The rest of us are several dB short of making it to a
WSPR threshold. We don't have the low take off angle (Bob has larger
antennas at 80' on a ridgetop). While we might make it to a WSPR-15
threshold with lesser stations, I doubt that we are going to see many
aircraft vectors that provide low enough drift to be sufficient for a spot.

A good tool for all of us, I think, would be a graphic solver of the
total path length vs. time, probably displayed as change in
wavelengths/second, Hz of expected Doppler offset. Input needs to be end
points and aircraft vector. I wrote out the equation so maybe I'll get
around to a graphic output of the results one of these days.

In the meantime, I think given appropriate ERP and receive antenna
apertures this can likely be repeated on multiple bands.

Glenn n6gn

Bo, OZ2M

unread,
Jul 10, 2013, 9:31:26 AM7/10/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com

Bob Larkin

unread,
Jul 10, 2013, 7:06:47 PM7/10/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com, Larry W7SZ
Hi Glenn,

I think for the most part your ACS conclusion tracks my observations.
The case, where I am not sure, is two stations operating VHF/UHF with
both having a very low, possibly negative, take-off angles. This is so
favorable for "tropo-scatter" that the airplane peaks do not seem to
appear, or are of minor consequence. My takeoff angle in your direction
is around zero. Anecdotal evidence of the above comes from my many tropo
scatter contacts with W6KH, when he lived in the hills south of SF (very
good take-off). We worked "anytime" on SSB, but with weak but
consistent signals. I remember many, huge meteor pings, but not a
single airplane type of event. It would seem that the tropo scatter was
strong enough to not be particularly enhanced by ACS. Or, maybe we just
didn't have enough continuous hours at the right time of day to bring
ACS effects out. That is always a problem with anecdotal evidence.

In the reverse situation, I have thousands of hours of data on 1296, 10
GHz and 24 Ghz with stations to my North, where the take off angle is 3
to 5 degrees, and the ACS enhancement was huge. At the time, we
considered the airplanes a nuisance to what we were trying to measure,
and developed filters to remove them from the answers. This also
allowed us to see how many airplane events there were at various times
of the day.

Another anecdotal case comes when I want to talk to Seattle from here on
432. I must wait for a plane!

It would be interesting to arrange an experiment over a 400 to 600 mile
path to measure these effects, on a long term basis. WSPR is sort of
doing this now, but is probably not the best of tools for this. GPS
frequency control is a wonderful addition for such purposes. I recently
did 2-m experiments with KD7TS (200 miles north of me) using steady CW
and Spectrum Lab. Both stations were fully locked with DSP-10's. The
tropo-scatter propagation bandwidth without airplanes was down, well
below 0.1 Hz. Airplanes were both plentiful and obvious with the BW at
0.03 Hz. The sensitivity was obviously very good, as well.

The question of the amount of Doppler shift is begging for answers.
Your curved-Earth model, would seem to be the tool. Couldn't we just
generate parametric curves (plane height, station distance, plane
distance, off-track distance, etc.) that would puts some bounds on it?
It is probably not worth trying to over-analyze, since if the plane
changes altitude, for instance, it can really change the answers. I
would be happy to assist if it was useful.

That kind of curve might put perspective on the 10 Hz Doppler on Bob's
signal, for instance. BTW, we do know that long paths tend to have less
Doppler than short ones.

Thanks for the thoughts, ideas and wisdom. This is good fun.

73, Bob W7PUA

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Jul 10, 2013, 10:49:40 PM7/10/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Bob,
Thanks for your input and comparisons. I agree that it is beginning to
look pretty similar, with the exception of the "tropo-scatter"
mechanism. I confess that I do not understand this. The mechanism I'm
aware of, and have used on 10 GHz for ~700 km class QSO, matches the
textbook models for inhomogeneity of oxygen molecules in the upper
troposphere. However, if I remember correctly, these models favor
shorter wavelengths and I'm not sure explain 2m or 432 propagation. Do
you have any references I could peruse to learn more?

As yet, I don't think we've seen this "always there" mode on 2m WSPR.

I totally agree of the importance of take off angle. I've attributed the
scarcity of Northern California to LA Basin spots both to the lack of
stations and, when there were stations on, to the mountains near the
southern end. This may or may not be the case since in years past I've
worked LA many times on both CW and SSB from here in situations
requiring a lot better link budget than WSPR demands.

You're also right that it is a kick trying to "peel the onion" to figure
out what's really going on.

I think that, at least, Bob WA6M and I may be able to come up with
reasonable stations on 1296. In fact, WB7ABP, about 1 km from me has an
EME station that we might arrange to put on WSPR. Getting an elevated
antenna (on his tower instead of ground mounted as the 15' dish
currently is) is the biggest hurdle.

We all have 10 GHz stations as well, though I only have 10 watts there.

Thanks again,

Glenn n6gn

Bob Larkin

unread,
Jul 12, 2013, 3:47:17 AM7/12/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com, Larry W7SZ
Glenn, many thanks for the thoughts. Here are a couple of comments on
the tropo scatter part, that I think relates to the present WSPR 144 and
432 activity.

I think tropo scatter is common in VHF & UHF life. To see this, we
should ignore the less-than-common case of "ducting" that occurs when a
greater than normal refractive layer exists in the lower troposphere.
Then the range limit on a smooth Earth is going to be a bit past the
geometric line-of-sight path. If the two antennas are at 50-ft, this
occurs around 20-miles separation. At least not a whole lot more. But,
we all know we can beat that by a lot. We can QSO over hundreds of
miles at VHF. It is not refraction, difraction or line-of -site, so
only scattering is left. As you point out, small particle scattering
(like rain drops) greatly favor short wavelengths. Going back to the
50's, the experts attribute the scattering to larger scale
non-uniformity of the water vapor in the troposphere. Water vapor,
being a polarized molecule, is the key constituent. Other clams for
dust, insects or other stuff are seen, but it is unlikely to be strongly
involved at VHF or UHF

The scale of the discontinuities determines the wavelengths that have
the greatest scattering. VHF frequencies, such as 144 or 432 have useful
scattering. It would seem to drop off quite a bit going to HF.

A very useful reference:
J. N. Gannaway, G3YGF, "Tropospheric Scatter Propagation," QST Nov 1983,
p43. This is a redo of the original article in RSGB RadComm. It also
shows up in other RSGB and ARRL books.

I do not have a copy, but I have looked at the Proceedings IRE for Oct
1955 in the OSU library, That had multiple articles on tropo scatter.
There were other papers around then, as well. I believe these studies
are the basis for much that followed.

I would like to hold off for a bit on discussing small ice and water
particles that can have huge impact at, say, 10 GHz but very little at
144 or 432.

73, Bob W7PUA


On 07/10/2013 07:49 PM, Glenn Elmore wrote:
> Bob,
> Thanks for your input and comparisons. I agree that it is beginning
> to look pretty similar, with the exception of the "tropo-scatter"
> mechanism. I confess that I do not understand this. The mechanism I'm
> aware of, and have used on 10 GHz for ~700 km class QSO, matches the
> textbook models for inhomogeneity of oxygen molecules in the upper
> troposphere. However, if I remember correctly, these models favor
> shorter wavelengths and I'm not sure explain 2m or 432 propagation. Do
> you have any references I could peruse to learn more?
>
> As yet, I don't think we've seen this "always there" mode on 2m WSPR.
>
> I totally agree of the importance of take off angle. I've attributed
> the scarcity of Northern California to LA Basin spots both to the lack
> of stations and, when there were stations on, to the mountains near
> the southern end. This may or may not be the case since in years past
> I've worked LA many times on both CW and SSB from here in situations
> requiring a lot better link budget than WSPR demands.
>
> snip...see Glenn's post

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Jul 12, 2013, 1:55:20 PM7/12/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Bob,
Thanks for the references. I do remember finding information on it when
we briefly held the 10 GHz over-terrain (as opposed to water vapor over
water) record in the mid - 1980's. I can't remember what that text was
but it did predict weak, but usable, propagation over the 400 mile path,
which we did observe. I believe they attributed it to oxygen rather than
water molecules.

I know that ionospheric scatter, often attributed to meteoric dust, is
usable at 6m. However, I don't think the density is sufficient to get to
much shorter wavelengths. If tropospheric scattering involving water is
involved, one would think it would occur at much lower altitudes and
that there would be a strong wavelength dependency due to scatterer
density. Maybe your articles will help me with this.

You are correct about pure LOS being much shorter. I think I calculated
it once as "square root of height (miles) * 100" for the K=4/3
(nominal) index of refraction. But as you say, this doesn't actually
explain much mid to long amateur DX on VHF and up. People often talk
about "knife edge" diffraction but I believe that has been dis-proven
with measurements at 10 GHz showing the same effect from a rounded
hilltop as from a truly sharp edge. It would seem that straight GTD
(geometric theory of diffraction) is not an adequate explanation for
what we routinely experience.

I'll check the QST reference and also see if I can come up with the IRE
one. Thanks again for providing them.

Glenn n6gn

Doug

unread,
Jul 23, 2013, 2:35:53 PM7/23/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com, k6...@sonic.net
Tuesday's seem to creep up on us unexpectedly... ;-)  So, how about Wednesday's for 432 WSPR?  I plan to switch over starting early tomorrow morning (around 7 am PDT).

73, Doug WW6D

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Jul 23, 2013, 2:41:19 PM7/23/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I'm in. Let's make it "432 Wednesdays" from here on...

Glenn

n6gn

unread,
Jul 24, 2013, 10:14:16 AM7/24/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com, n6...@sonic.net
N6GN QSY 432.300000 dial as of  1400 UTC 24 July (Wednesday) for 24 hours.

Glenn n6gn

Doug

unread,
Jul 30, 2013, 5:15:35 PM7/30/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Just a reminder... WSPR 432 on Wednesday's.  I'll be ready to go around 0600 local time (1300Z) tomorrow morning.

73, Doug WW6D

N6SKM

unread,
Aug 3, 2013, 12:11:19 AM8/3/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I pulled up email on Wednesday and discovered that I should switch to 432.  It was then that I learned that my 2 meter antenna doesn't work as well on its 3rd harmonic as I thought it did!  My SignaLink was at 0 TX for two weeks while we were on vacation, so when I clicked up a band to 432, nothing was transmitting.  "Oh!" I said... "I need to turn up the TX level."  Wham!  The swr meter rocketed past 3 as I turned the TX knob and then, with even more gain, dropped back down to about 1.5. 
 
Ouch!  I'd always been at full modulation before and hadn't realized that the output stage had totally folded over to protect itself against the mismatch.  I didn't see that until I had eased up through lower power levels where this foldover doesn't happen.

I'm now looking for a combo 2m/70cm antenna.  The Elk 2m/440-L5 looks interesting.
Steve

Doug

unread,
Aug 6, 2013, 2:21:43 PM8/6/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
RE:  antenna for both 2m and 70cm.  (Steve N6SKM question)

I've been using a Cushcraft Model A27010S (5 elements each band) since March.  SWR was excellent on 2m; Ok on 70cm mainly because I haven't spent the time to tweak it in - still quite acceptable.  I bought mine from DX Engineering.

Since I have the soapbox ;-), don't forgot WSPR 432 tomorrow (Wednesday).

73, Doug WW6D

Doug

unread,
Aug 20, 2013, 11:42:43 PM8/20/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Wednesday again tomorrow for 432 - hope to be on around 8 am local time.

73, Doug WW6D

n6gn

unread,
Aug 28, 2013, 2:15:07 PM8/28/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Three of us on, K6PZB visible on waterfall but not decoding at either N6GN or WW6D.
Glenn n6gn

Doug

unread,
Sep 3, 2013, 5:22:46 PM9/3/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
A new month and time to try WSPR 432 on Wednesday - hope to hear some of you on.

73, Doug WW6D

Pamela J. Filicky

unread,
Sep 4, 2013, 12:44:47 PM9/4/13
to Doug, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
1640Z Good Morning Doug & Glen, for what ever reason I 'am not decoding Doug/WW6D I see him in the water
fall at little weaker than Glen/N6GN who has been about -7db.. Glen/N6GN is not reporting the 432 spots or is
not decoding Me/N6KOG or Doug/WW6D either?
                                                        Steve/N6KOG 

From: Doug <ww6dha...@gmail.com>
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 2:22 PM
Subject: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Sep 4, 2013, 12:46:53 PM9/4/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I'm not decoding Doug either. Looks OK on the waterfall. 
I think I've lost my Internet connection as the console says n6kog decoding fine.
I'll work on it.
Glenn

Doug

unread,
Sep 10, 2013, 5:01:00 PM9/10/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Let's try 432 again tomorrow... just a friendly reminder ;-)

73, Doug WW6D

Doug

unread,
Oct 1, 2013, 9:43:01 PM10/1/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I plan to be on 432 WSPR for Wednesday Oct 2.   Hope to see some of you on the waterfall!

73, Doug WW6D

KP4MD

unread,
Nov 1, 2013, 3:07:05 AM11/1/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I expected to be equipped for 432 MHz WSPR by next week.  

Carol, KP4MD

KD6RF

unread,
Nov 1, 2013, 11:34:30 AM11/1/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I am fooling around letting the station run on 432.3 dial for some hours today as I do some running around.

Antenna VTenn Vivaldi at 22 ft, 6.5 dBi, 45 deg pol, 30 deg elev tilt, pointed due North
IC706 puts out only about 15 W at 432MHz.

I can already see that I need a LNA pre-amp as noise level increase is barely perceptible switching from 50 ohm load to antenna.

Guess it's time to put together all the crap I have laying around here - 100 W amplifier (20-500 MHz), T/R relays, LNA's etc... and make something actually useful for > 2M.


Interestingy, it looks like there is some radar(?) bleed over (or perhaps intemod?) running short bursts at about 6 Hz rep rate.  I see it pop up every once in a while - it doesn't run continously.  Sounds/looks like the old Russian Woodpecker.

KP4MD

unread,
Nov 16, 2013, 12:29:38 PM11/16/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
A quick out of the box test shows the Down East Microwave L432-28HP 432 MHz transverter does receive and transmit as expected with an indoor antenna.  
Due to other priorities, I expect to take another few weeks to integrate and interface it in the station as I wish with the Flex-1500 exciter.

Carol, KP4MD

n6gn

unread,
Nov 17, 2013, 10:32:28 PM11/17/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
We may be running on 432.3 up here on Wednesday, in case you are still QRU.  I don't think the lack of noise change between a load and the antenna is necessarily indicative of a problem. By 432, QRN has dropped to essential KTB, T=room temperature which makes the noise identical to that coming from a 50 ohm load.   A better test would be to use a (very) directional antenna pointed at a quiet spot in the sky to observe Y factor (hot cold) system noise figure measurement. Unless your feed line is pretty bad, I doubt that a preamp will help the 706 a whole lot and if there are any big signals close by, it might hurt things. 

I wonder if the radar you hearing is PAVE/PAWS, or is that still running?  If that's on the air still, it's possibly another vote for *not* running an external preamp!

I haven't dragged the 1296 transverter out of storage and put it back on yet but John, K6PZB, has an IC910 making QSOs on the band so maybe we should be thinking of even shorter wavelengths.  It will be interesting to see how/if ACS remains usable as the wavelength shortens. I tend to think that on shorter paths, there may be too much associated Doppler shift even though the RCS of the aircraft should remain fully usable and similar ERPs and receive antenna apertures are possible.  I believe we consistently see more ACS spots from the longer 2m paths, e.g. KC6KGE <--> Sonoma County, more frequently then shorter ones because of the reduced Doppler on the associated aircraft routes. However, even if we don't get decodes, it will be fun to compare aircraft related propagation with the longer wavelengths. We see ACS down to 10m and 6m WSPR spots are often full of it. Whether we see as much (and whether it is still on screen in a 200 Hz window!) will be interesting.

Let us know when you are ready for either 432 or 1296 WSPR and I think there may be some up this way ready to try it out with you.

Glenn n6gn

KD6RF

unread,
Nov 18, 2013, 9:37:04 AM11/18/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com


On Sunday, November 17, 2013 7:32:28 PM UTC-8, n6gn wrote:
We may be running on 432.3 up here on Wednesday, in case you are still QRU. ....


I have yet to receive the power combiner for the 2x 100 watt bricks, as well as some futzing to do with the T/R switching.  Yes, like a dum-bass, I blew up the old HamTronics LNA already :(      Probably not much of a loss (except for those nice helical filters...)

Judging by SprectrumLab captures, SNR on received FO29 sat signals improves a few dB when I have my other LNA, an AR^2 unit, in line.  Similarly, with the AR^2 preamp in, I do see/hear a small increase in noise between antenna and 50 ohm load, whereas there was no difference using the 706 w/o the AR^2 preamp.  Not huge, but it looks like it's worth a few dB.

Will also be putting antennas back to horizontal, instead of 45 degree V/H, but will retain the 30 elev tilt for sat work.  That should pick up a good 3 dB if EZNEC is to be believed.

This will all prob take a few weeks, and will run with the current non-LNA 20W 45 deg pol system I have now whenever y'all wil be doing 432.

Doug

unread,
Nov 19, 2013, 5:41:58 PM11/19/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
My Yaesu FT-897 is now operational again, so I'm going to QSY to 432 starting tomorrow.  Hope to copy some of you (and vice versa)!

73, Doug WW6D

n6gn

unread,
Nov 19, 2013, 8:24:06 PM11/19/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
 I hope to be on with the ~100W ERP at 140 degrees. 432.300 dial.

Glenn n6gn

n6gn

unread,
Nov 20, 2013, 1:02:31 PM11/20/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com

Nice strong, stable and accurate signals here on 432 this AM. I see N6KOG, WA6M, K6PZB and WW6D. No sign of KD6RF yet on 432.3


Pamela J. Filicky

unread,
Nov 20, 2013, 2:56:41 PM11/20/13
to n6gn, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Hello All - Sorry had to shut down, I got a new radio the flex-6500 having problems working on the phone
with Flexx... The GPS on it works though... hahahaha.        
                                          CUL Steve/N6KOG


From: n6gn <n6...@sonic.net>
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 10:02 AM

Subject: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR

Nice strong, stable and accurate signals here on 432 this AM. I see N6KOG, WA6M, K6PZB and WW6D. No sign of KD6RF yet on 432.3


KD6RF

unread,
Nov 20, 2013, 5:40:53 PM11/20/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Well duh...

I spent all morning until now on LSB :(

Now on USB as of 2:40 PM.


KD6RF

unread,
Nov 20, 2013, 8:58:41 PM11/20/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Tough haul into Livermore.

Can see traces on SpectrumLab, but not good enough to decode.  Saw traces on 120 and 100, as well as fast slope doppler.

I'm guessing I am 4 or 5 dB shy of decodes.

Was also transmitting on 130.

Gunna have to re-arrange the antenna to full horizontal and try next time...

KP4MD

unread,
Nov 23, 2013, 5:06:50 PM11/23/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
There are new tabs for 432 MHz and 50 MHz on the VHF/UHF Study Station Data spreadsheet.  I copied the 144 MHz matrix to the new tabs and specified frequency, power (and other information gathered from postings) for the stations known to be active on those bands.

Our Station Data list is accessible via http://www.qsl.net/kp4md/144_mhz_wspr.htm#stations or via

Carol KP4MD

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Nov 23, 2013, 5:44:00 PM11/23/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Carol,
Thanks for the improvements! If it isn't difficult and doesn't cause
problems, how about a tab for 1296 as well? We're not quite there yet
but perhaps close enough to warrant it.

Glenn n6gn

n6gn

unread,
Nov 25, 2013, 10:03:15 PM11/25/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com

It's really great to see Joe, KJ6BQA spotting and being spotted accurately and with no drift now.  Looking at the units column of the database is really becoming interesting.  For one thing, when there is something other than a "0" it is almost always accompanied by some reported drift. I think this usually means a crossing ACS term which seems to have the effect of "dragging" WSPR off of 0.  Occasionally it is a large drift from a non-crossing ACS term. 
I think it will be very interesting as more of us with good accuracy start reporting spots on 432.  I think this will help make it more obvious when something is ACS related and when it is "ground wave". Although I am now pretty certain that the longer spots we see between KC6KGE and Sonoma County stations virtually all involve ACS, on 432 there may be additonal offset showing on paths that 2m WSPR would have reported as "right on" and "not drifiting". This should be even more evident if/when we get to 1296 and will help us positively confirm the effect.

If we indeed verify that the long haul is all ACS, and if it is true that we are able to identify the individual aircraft responsible, since we know or can measure our ERP and antenna gains at these low angles, we should be able to come up with our own estimates of the radar cross section of these aircraft vs. plane type.  Even now, we should be able to identify when/where a particular spot is going to occur and perhaps what S/N it will be. In the case of KC6KGE-Sonoma County paths, it appears that a sufficiently large aircraft at 32K or more feet, SE of San Jose roughly on the path between stations can produce the strongest spot on 2m. 747-400's and Airbus'es seem to show up this way. With appropriate ERP and antenna apertures known  for  other bands we should also be able to generate spots there.

Since we could run WSJT just as well as WSPR, I thinks this means that if we want to demonstrate it, we can probably show moderate haul DX QSO on almost any amateur VHF through microwave band.  Perhaps I'm behind the times and the rovers and VHF/UHF DXers are already doing this for contests but if they aren’t', I bet they can.

Glenn n6gn

Steven Hess

unread,
Nov 25, 2013, 10:19:17 PM11/25/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I'd like to be able to devote some WSPR time to the UFH region but I
am not up to it $$$ wise right now. It will be a while. I've got
higher priority on hold a HF project right now.

I've seen VHF JT65A contacts reported on my Twitter stream out of the EU.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "2
> Meter WSPR" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to 2-meter-wspr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/2-meter-wspr.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.



--
____________
Apply appropriate technology. Use what works without prejudice.
Steven L Hess ARS KC6KGE DM05gd22
Owner Flex-1500 and Flex-3000, FT-857D, FT-817ND, FT-450
openSUSE Linux 12.3 KDE
Known as FlameBait and The Sock Puppet of Doom.

KP4MD

unread,
Dec 17, 2013, 12:16:51 AM12/17/13
to
Yes, nice to see Joe spot on since 0000 UTC on 11/25/2013. With the cooler weather and decrease in tropo enhancement I've increased 144 MHz Tx power to 50 dBm for a while.  I would like to participate in WSJT skeds wilth others.  The Mirage amplifier appears to be handling the power quite comfortably, yet spots between N6GN and my station are very rare and I suspect we are in an antenna pattern null.

My progress report on 432 MHz...  
  1. This weekend I did some testing on the $5 semi-homebrew 5 element 432 MHz Yagi antenna and discovered a few things that reminded me of my first experiences with UHF back in the 70's... Trying to transmit through a Waters coaxial switch that I had been using on 2 meters introduces an excessively high SWR when used on 432 MHz...so I eliminated that.  
  2. The antenna's gamma match capacitor is a piece of coaxial cable center and dielectric inside an aluminum tube, and the minimum SWR I can achieve is 2:1, and that with the shorting clip closest to the feed point.  I suspect the capacitance needs adjustment and I also question the accuracy of the SWR reading taken with a calibrated WaveNode sensor through an 8 foot length of RG-8A/U.  
  3. As the miniVNA Pro range is 0.1-200 MHz, I'm awaiting delivery of an accessory to extend its operating range to 1500 MHz, so as to measure the Yagi antenna parameters directly at the feed point and adjust it properly.
  4. The Yagi's NEC model over my metal roof estimates an effective gain of 16 dBi and 3 dB beam width of 50°.  The Radio Mobile Online application shows how the expected coverage with a beam heading of 230° may reach Santa Rosa and the San Jose areas admittedly using some optimistic estimates for system loss.   
Carol, KP4MD/6
Citrus Heights, CA
 
 



On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 7:03 PM, n6gn wrote:

It's really great to see Joe, KJ6BQA spotting and being spotted accurately and with no drift now.  Looking at the units column of the database is really becoming interesting.  For one thing, when there is something other than a "0" it is almost always accompanied by some reported drift. I think this usually means a crossing ACS term which seems to have the effect of "dragging" WSPR off of 0.  ....

.....Since we could run WSJT just as well as WSPR, I thinks this means that if we want to demonstrate it, we can probably show moderate haul DX QSO on almost any amateur VHF through microwave band.  Perhaps I'm behind the times and the rovers and VHF/UHF DXers are already doing this for contests but if they aren’t', I bet they can. 

Glenn n6gn


KD6RF

unread,
Nov 26, 2013, 8:31:17 AM11/26/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com

Carol –

 

You may want to consider N connectors, or perhaps even SMA if power levels are not too high.

 

I have noticed that PL/SO-259, even at their best, don’t perform all that well at UHF.  At best, they introduce significant reactance, at worst they also introduce loss. 


To make matters worse, there is a now large degree of variation in composition and quality, especially in the cheapo crap that comes out of China.

 

I had an SO/PL-259 elbow in my system that was actually heating up with 90 Watts at  432MHz in an otherwise 1.1 SWR system.  Not good.

 

FWIW, I use PL-259 to BNC adapters at the radio (why do they keep putting SO-259’s on V/UHF radios?).  Then short decent quality BNC between radio and BNC/N adapter at the power meter, then out to the N connectored feedline and antenna.

 

Measurements show that BNC, at least for the cables and adapters that I have, work well up to 432 MHz, pretty good at 915MHz, but not all that great at 1296 MHz and above.

 

I use BNC for convenience, because I use my “ham station” equip for my day job, but you can just as well eliminate the BNC and go direct from PL-259 to N.

 

And, as you know, both the N’s and SMA’s work very well up into the multi GHz range.

dB




On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 12:06:27 AM UTC-8, KP4MD wrote:...

My progress report on 432 MHz...  
  1. This weekend I did some testing...

Pamela J. Filicky

unread,
Nov 26, 2013, 12:38:45 PM11/26/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
0936PST Been active for awhile now on 432... see no others. Closing down. Steve/N6KOG

   
  


Glenn Elmore

unread,
Nov 26, 2013, 12:53:44 PM11/26/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Today's only Tuesday!
I think Doug is calling another "432 Wednesday" but I haven't seen the notice yet.
Or am I off a day?
ge


On 11/26/2013 09:38 AM, Pamela J. Filicky wrote:
0936PST Been active for awhile now on 432... see no others. Closing down. Steve/N6KOG

   
  


Doug

unread,
Nov 26, 2013, 2:27:11 PM11/26/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com, n6...@sonic.net
Yes - 432 Wednesday!   I plan to be on starting tomorrow (may even get it all going at 00Z and let it run for 24 hours).

And, while I have the soapbox - Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

73, Doug WW6D

Pamela J. Filicky

unread,
Nov 26, 2013, 3:30:43 PM11/26/13
to n6...@sonic.net, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
hahahaha... I knew that... hahahaha disregard, I'll do it again on the right day...  Steve/N6KOG

Line Printer

unread,
Nov 28, 2013, 2:03:20 AM11/28/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com

Greetings!

My spotting has been flakey of late and it's not that I didn't spot, it's
related to network equipment malfunctionality.

It appears that my "managed" network switch has developed "Capacitor
Plague" and rapidly became useless over the past week or so.

I have replaced it with and unmanaged switch and once again, I am
uploading spots again.

Happy Thanksgiving :)

Thank you,
Kevin Martinez
KI6STW

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Line Printer System | HODIE NATUS EST RADICI FRATER
lps at rahul 'dot' net | 645/6180 BOS/BCE
------------------------------------------------------------------------

KD6RF

unread,
Nov 28, 2013, 10:37:51 AM11/28/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com

 

Some interesting polarization noted on 70cm yesterday from N6GN to KD6RF/V shown below .

 

(There were also several hits from N6KOG to KD6RF/V, but signal levels were soooo strong from Tracy to Livermore that it probably doesn’t mean much…)

 

VERTICAL POL – 5  total spots from N6GN  to KD6RF

 

 2013-11-28 02:32       N6GN              432.301504     -27       0              CM88ok          10        KD6RF/V         CM97cq          121       133

 2013-11-28 02:24       N6GN              432.301504     -28       0              CM88ok          10        KD6RF/V         CM97cq          121       133

 2013-11-28 02:12       N6GN              432.301504     -26       0              CM88ok          10        KD6RF/V         CM97cq          121       133

 2013-11-27 21:44       N6GN              432.301518     -28       1              CM88ok          10        KD6RF/V         CM97cq          121       133

 2013-11-27 21:14       N6GN              432.301504     -27       1              CM88ok          10        KD6RF/V         CM97cq          121       133

 

(Note that the KD6RF/V receiver is the R7000 “drift box” and is not locked to reference)

 

 

 

 

HORIZONTAL POL – 30 total  spots from N6GN  to KD6RF, 4 of which are accompanied by the Vertical spots shown above:

 

 2013-11-28 02:32       N6GN              432.301499     -24       0              CM88ok          10        KD6RF             CM97cq          121       133

 2013-11-28 02:12       N6GN              432.301500     -23       0              CM88ok          10        KD6RF             CM97cq          121       133

 2013-11-27 21:44       N6GN              432.301500     -23       0              CM88ok          10        KD6RF             CM97cq          121       133

 2013-11-27 21:14       N6GN              432.301500     -23       0              CM88ok          10        KD6RF             CM97cq          121       133

 

432 is cool.  You guys/gals are cool too.  I've had a ham license for 40 years, and these are the first non-repeater contacts on on both 2M and 70 cM for me :)

 

 

dB


n3...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 28, 2013, 9:35:52 PM11/28/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
When I worked for Motorola all those years a go. They used UHF connectors on everything. The 800 Mhz band was new and we found out quickly that a 90 UHF had over 3 db loss on 800 Mhz. And the installers who soldered on PL259 connectors. What would work fine on Low band and high band didn't fly at 800 Mhz. As the new kid I had the opportunity to re do all the PL259 connectors on the mobiles that came in for service. Got good at it.

Motorola eventually switched to Mini UHF, mostly to cut down on installation cost. Their bases on 450 and up used N types.


--

Doug

unread,
Dec 3, 2013, 12:49:48 PM12/3/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Another week has rolled around - so let's try Wednesday 432 again (tomorrow)!

73, Doug WW6D

KP4MD

unread,
Dec 4, 2013, 10:39:40 AM12/4/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
My station will not be on 432 today.  
I still have to build and install my 10 MHz reference distribution amplifier to control the Flex-1500 and DEMI L432-28 transverter simultaneously.
I will also try to get the Yagi antenna up this weekend if weather permits.

Carol

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Dec 4, 2013, 2:08:12 PM12/4/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Carol,
Understood. There are lots of things to do to get and keep several WSPR bands running!

So far today I'm seeing WW6D, K6PZB, N6KOG and KD6RF/H.  I'm also seeing, but not decoding something near 530 but having too much drift. I don't see anyone else decoding it so I don't know who it is. It's inside the white circle below...


Anyone know who this is?

Glenn n6gn

Pamela J. Filicky

unread,
Dec 4, 2013, 2:51:16 PM12/4/13
to n6...@sonic.net, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Nope not seeing anything here..  73 Steve/N6KOG

From: Glenn Elmore <n6...@sonic.net>
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com

Pamela J. Filicky

unread,
Dec 4, 2013, 9:18:56 PM12/4/13
to jwatrous, n6...@sonic.net, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Hello John - I had a visitor at the house and I was moving the beam from the NE were the activity was on 10Mtrs back to where you
all are. That was the reason for the big changes in signal strength. Oh worked LAS Vegas area on 2Mtrs SSB it was 5 by 5 one min next
five mins or so could just tell he was talking.... Might have be the ACS the Glen is going on about dunno I was running 600W and
the other sta over 1KW both with antennas with 15DB of gain....
                                    CUL Regards Steve/N6KOG

From: jwatrous <jwat...@sonic.net>
To: Pamela J. Filicky <psfli...@att.net>
Cc: "n6...@sonic.net" <n6...@sonic.net>; "2-mete...@googlegroups.com" <2-mete...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR

What about these:

 2013-12-04 19:34  K6PZB  432.301488  -26  0  CM88nk  20  N6KOG  CM97gs  144  120  2013-12-04 19:24  K6PZB  432.301486  -27  0  CM88nk  20  N6KOG  CM97gs  144  120  2013-12-04 18:34  K6PZB  432.301488  -27  0  CM88nk  20  N6KOG  CM97gs  144  120  2013-12-04 17:18  K6PZB  432.301488  -15  0  CM88nk  20  N6KOG  CM97gs  144  120  2013-12-04 17:10  K6PZB  432.301488  -15  0  CM88nk  20  N6KOG  CM97gs  144  120  2013-12-04 16:40  K6PZB  432.301484  -13  0  CM88nk  20  N6KOG  CM97gs  144  120  2013-12-04 16:28  K6PZB  432.301479  -12  1  CM88nk  20  N6KOG  CM97gs  144  120  2013-12-04 16:18  K6PZB  432.301478  -11  0  CM88nk  20  N6KOG  CM97gs  144  120 

On Dec 4, 2013, at 11:51, "Pamela J. Filicky" <psfli...@att.net> wrote:

Nope not seeing anything here..  73 Steve/N6KOG

From: Glenn Elmore <n6...@sonic.net>
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR
Carol,
Understood. There are lots of things to do to get and keep several WSPR bands running!

So far today I'm seeing WW6D, K6PZB, N6KOG and KD6RF/H.  I'm also seeing, but not decoding something near 530 but having too much drift. I don't see anyone else decoding it so I don't know who it is. It's inside the white circle below...
<hbbijcad.png>

KP4MD

unread,
Dec 10, 2013, 10:56:24 AM12/10/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
VNA measurements and NEC model analysis of the 432 MHz Yagi that I plan to use in the WSPR propagation study. N6ICW kindly secured me some low-loss Times Microwave LMR-400 coaxial cable to replace my 30 year old Belden 8214 RG-8/U foam cable.  This upgrade for the weak signal VHF/UHF propagation study.

Carol KP4MD



Doug

unread,
Dec 10, 2013, 2:02:33 PM12/10/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sounds like Carol is ready for 432!  Let's try again tomorrow - yes, it's Wednesday again... ;-)

Doug WW6D

KP4MD

unread,
Dec 11, 2013, 12:57:37 AM12/11/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
If time allows this weekend I will lower the antenna mast to replace the old coaxial cables on the 144/440 MHz J-pole and the stacked halos, and mount the new 432 MHz Yagi antenna.  Meanwhile I have started running 432 MHz WSPR at 20 watts with the J-pole and will leave it there through Wednesday.

The GPS10V 10 MHz reference will not drive both the Flex-1500 and the DEMI transverter through a BNC Tee connector, so for now only the DEMI is GPS disciplined and the FLEX-1500 is running off its internal TCXO.  Although wspr-x says I should be on 432.301510 MHz, I guess I may be up to 50 Hz off frequency until I finish building the 10 MHz reference distribution amplifier to achieve full GPS frequency control.

Carol, KP4MD

KP4MD

unread,
Dec 11, 2013, 10:37:20 AM12/11/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
432 MHz report:  As KD6RF had been spotting me 46 Hz low I raised my Flex-1500 frequency that much at 1514 UTC to be on 432.301510 MHz

11 DEC 2013 - Received WSPR signals on 432.3 MHz with a frequency correction at 15:14 UTC.  The visible traces did not decode and appear to be from N6KOG.



My 432 WSPR spots 

KD6RF

unread,
Dec 11, 2013, 10:52:07 AM12/11/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com

Yes - it looks like KOG's big signal, but I see several Hz drift, perhaps 6 or 7 Hz, with nodecode :(

Pamela J. Filicky

unread,
Dec 11, 2013, 11:19:46 AM12/11/13
to KD6RF, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
DE N6KOG Yes its me dunno why no one is decoding me....i'll try rebooting  tks steve..


From: KD6RF <benz...@mindspring.com>
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 7:52 AM
Subject: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR


Yes - it looks like KOG's big signal, but I see several Hz drift, perhaps 6 or 7 Hz, with nodecode :(

KD6RF

unread,
Dec 11, 2013, 11:34:07 AM12/11/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
2 hits to Carol's QTH -

2013-12-11 16:26  KD6RF/H  432.301531  -23  0  CM97cq  20  KP4MD  CM98iq  119  21 
2013-12-11 16:24  KD6RF/H  432.301531  -25  0  CM97cq  20  KP4MD  CM98iq  119  21 

Those were both with 80 watts, the most my current power supply can handle.

No T/R switch yet, so it's, back to the measly 15 watts that the IC-706 puts out.




Steve - I think the issue is the drift...

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Dec 11, 2013, 1:58:08 PM12/11/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I've been on since last PM. WW6D and K6PZB are of course loud and solid.  N6KOG was also showing up well on my waterfall but, as noted, with too much drift to allow a decode.  I have also rotated the antenna and watched. At 1815 I rotated east towards KP4MD. This puts me pointed correctly but cross-polarized. If the same kind of polarization preservation (non ACS) we've noted on 2m exists on 432, this probably is not a good enough path for WSPR. No spots and nothing visible on the waterfall. At about 1835 I rotated back to 150 degrees to look for KD6RF/h. Nothing there either, even though a transmission was spotted while I was looking. I simply can't see it right now.
I then rotated to 288 and then 270, first looking for WA6M, who I now realize hasn't QSYed to 432 at all, and then to compare K6PZB bore sight.

Generally, signals are there, N6KOG is the best DX and seems strong enough but there isn't a great deal of ACS and I'm surprised not to see anything from KD6RF/h.

Foliage absorption is certainly worse at 432 and some antenna altitude on either end would no doubt help.  I'm charging batteries now and thinking about putting a paper 432 halo (metalized paper) at ~200', fed with a SWTL tether and supported by my quadcopter for next week, weather and time permitting.

Hopefully KP4MD will be horizontally polarized before long too. (I think I'm understanding correctly that signals from their are presently vertical).

Glenn n6gn

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Dec 11, 2013, 2:15:26 PM12/11/13
to jwatrous, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I saw that. Also WW6D has had spots each way. The path from N6GN must have some obstruction that isn't bothering the two of you. An antenna at ~200 might get around this...

Glenn


On 12/11/2013 11:13 AM, jwatrous wrote:
ve this one:

2013-12-11 16:44   KD6RF/H   432.301531   -28   0   CM97cq   20   K6PZB   CM88nk   126   312 


Glenn Elmore

unread,
Dec 11, 2013, 2:50:17 PM12/11/13
to jwatrous, 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
This may be more detail than anyone cares about but it's interesting to me. Here is a recent screenshot. The antenna is pointed at 140 which is close to correct for KD6RF/h. At that heading, both K6PZB and WW6D are down at about the same angle and off the back. Their signals are down at least 15 dB which is reasonable if the antenna is working.




Notice the "bits of cruft" at 19:26 and 19:38.  This is apparantly brief ACS from KD6RF/h who is too weak, as previously noted, for regular observation or decode, even though WW6D only 4 miles from me is doing OK with it.
What I find interesting is the briefness of the signal peak. This is not what we normally see on 2m. There the scattering seems to be be more like scattering and fairly uniform over the 2 minute WSPR window. Here it is starting to look more like a "glint", a specular (mirrorlike) reflection from some part(s) of the airframe rather than a diffuse reradiation from random discontinuites.  I guess it might make sense that this effect be more pronounced at shorter wavelengths where there are more likely to be significant slabs of aircraft that can act as mirrors. This is what happens with Iridium satellite flares that get very bright for a few seconds and them subside to a much fainter level.  This is also what the VKs were reporting at 10 GHz (at least) when examining what they call AES, aircraft enhanced scattering.

Glenn n6gn

KP4MD

unread,
Dec 11, 2013, 3:18:26 PM12/11/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com, n6...@sonic.net
Yes, last night I quickly hooked up the 432 MHz gear to the vertical Arrow 146/440 J-pole.

As the DEMI transverter appears have fared well with its initial on the air test, I have now raised the transmitter power to 50 watts, 47 dBm and will continue on 432 MHz until about 8 pm tonight when I have net control duties.

Last Saturday I only had time to cut, prepare and test the new coaxial cables.  Holiday and other commitments on Sunday left no time for antenna work.
So we plan to have the 432 MHz Yagi up by this weekend.

Carol, KP4MD

KP4MD

unread,
Dec 16, 2013, 3:06:56 PM12/16/13
to
The new Times Microwave LMR 400 coaxial cables and 432 MHz Yagi are up.  I rotated the 144 MHz stacked halo antennas toward the east and mounted the Yagi facing 230°.
I plan to test the 432 MHz Yagi on the 7 pm Sunday SSB net on 432.1 MHz and for sure on Wednesday WSPR.

I would not be surprised to see a dB or so decrease in my 2 meter WSPR spots toward the SF Bay area after 15 DEC 2013 0500 UTC now that the 144 MHz stacked halo antennas are on the opposite side of the mast.  Perhaps that may be compensated by the lower loss of the new coaxial cable.

Carol KP4MD

14 DEC 2013 - Today I replaced the Belden 8214 coaxial cable on the Arrow OSJ 146/440 J-pole and stacked halo antennas with new Times Microwave LMR-400 cable.  The halo antennas were rotated to the east side of the mast and the new 5 element 432 MHz Yagi mounted at 240° bearing.


14 DEC 2013 - View of the Arrow OSJ 146/440 J-pole (at 20 feet), the top 2 meter halo antenna of the stacked pair (at 18 feet), and the 5 element 432 MHz Yagi antenna (at 17 feet).



View from below: the 144 MHz stacked halo antennas face east, the 5 element 432 MHz Yagi antenna facing 240°. and the Arrow OSJ 146/440 J-pole at the top.

Doug

unread,
Dec 16, 2013, 11:16:47 AM12/16/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com, n6...@sonic.net
Carol - nice photos and setup.  Looks like there could be a lot of participation this Wednesday on 432!  See you all then.

73, Doug WW6D

KP4MD

unread,
Dec 17, 2013, 1:51:38 AM12/17/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com, Robert Russell K6ERF

I successfully checked into the Northern California 432 SSB Net on 432.100 MHz at 1900 PST on Sunday night and also listened carefully as 1 kW net control station KG6HXI in Wilton CA swung her large Yagi antenna calling for check ins around the compass points.  I heard some weak SSB signals at or below the noise level from the north and south SF bay area.  This suggests that 432 MHz WSPR contacts are possible from Sacramento to those areas.

The attached Radio Mobile coverage map for my 5 element 432 MHz Yagi with a fixed 230° bearing shows the 3 dB beamwidth extending from near Santa Rosa to San Jose on the Pacific Coast.  The coastal ranges present a formidable obstacle for this radio circuit.  My WSPR station will be on 432.301510 MHz from Tuesday night through Wednesday.

Carol KP4MD
Citrus Heights, CA


The Yagi's NEC model over my metal roof estimates an effective gain of 16 dBi and 3 dB beam width of 50°.  The Radio Mobile Online application shows how the expected coverage with a beam heading of 230° may reach Santa Rosa and the San Jose areas admittedly using some optimistic estimates for system loss.  

KP4MD

unread,
Dec 18, 2013, 8:58:47 PM12/18/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com, Robert Russell K6ERF
18 DEC 2013 update - This Propagation map shows 432 MHz WSPR contacts achieved over the Pacific Coast ranges with 50 watts and 5 element Yagi antenna at 17 feet at KP4MD station near Sacramento, California.

I suspect that the FLEX-1500 receiver sensitivity may be compromised by periods of increased noise floor from loss of image rejection as has been reported in other units.  My initial inquiry with FlexRadio suggested this may require a hardware fix at the factory which I may pursue if I confirm this.

Carol, KP4MD

Doug

unread,
Dec 31, 2013, 2:58:15 PM12/31/13
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com, Robert Russell K6ERF
Happy New Year!  And yes, tomorrow is Wednesday, so if you're up for it, QSY to 432.

Vy 73, Doug WW6D

KP4MD

unread,
Jan 1, 2014, 12:03:29 PM1/1/14
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com, Robert Russell K6ERF
Good WSPR traces from N6KOG but no one else this morning.
But no signals either from the W6ER beacon in Sausalito. 
Apparently propagation is different since last week.

Carol KP4MD
Citrus Heights, CA

Happy New Year
n6kog.jpg

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Jan 1, 2014, 12:13:08 PM1/1/14
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
I was "on" since last night but discovered that I had stolen the 432 antenna for other testing and I only had the 2m antenna the wrong way through the diplexer to radiate on. Still WW6D did spot me weakly.  I've fixed that problem so maybe things will change. K6ER is always pretty weak at ground level here. I don't know that there is any noticeable change.
Maybe even numbered years are different from odd? :-)

Glenn n6gn
Santa Rosa, CA

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Jan 6, 2014, 12:45:55 AM1/6/14
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
It looks like Bruce has added 70 cm and 23 cm to both the WSPRnet.org map and database. That will be a great help!
Glenn n6gn




KP4MD

unread,
Jan 6, 2014, 12:49:36 PM1/6/14
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com, n6...@sonic.net
Perhaps my snail mail letter sent to Bruce last month nudged him to do this??
However, the search engine on the old database page that works with the spreadsheet macro still does not function on 70 cm and above.

Carol KP4MD

Dr. Carol F. Milazzo, KP4MD
406 Sunrise Ave, Suite 280
Roseville, CA 95661
 
December 18, 2013
 
Bruce Walker, W1BW
426 Strawberry Hill Rd
Concord, MA  01742
 
 
Dear Mr. Walker,
 
Increasing numbers of amateur radio operators who use WSPR to study UHF and microwave propagation phenomena would appreciate if the drop down selections for UHF and higher bands on the WSPR Spot database page would become functional.   
 
The listed drop down selections for 125cm, 70cm and GHz on the WSPR Spot database page http://wsprnet.org/olddb do not function to retrieve spots for those bands.
 
Although ours and the Australian WSPR study groups regularly upload 432 MHz spots to the database, the search http://wsprnet.org/olddb?mode=html&band=432 retrieves none of those spots.
 
Could you please arrange to correct the necessary code to allow database searches on these bands?

Sincerely,
 
 
 
Dr. Carol F. Milazzo, KP4MD/6
Northern California VHF/UHF WSPR Study Group

 


Leigh Rainbird

unread,
Jan 6, 2014, 8:36:17 PM1/6/14
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
Its good to see this and 23cm available.
It has given me the extra incentive needed to begin orgainising parts to GPS lock my IC910.
Ive already ordered the board required for the IC910 to accept the 10 MHz ref signal. Now just looking for a suitable GPS reference.
 
Leigh VK2KRR
 

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 09:49:36 -0800
From: kp...@cfmilazzo.com
To: 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
CC: n6...@sonic.net
Subject: Re: {2 Meter WSPR} Re: 432 MHz WSPR

Glenn Elmore

unread,
Jan 6, 2014, 9:14:03 PM1/6/14
to 2-mete...@googlegroups.com
As long as the loop bandwidth of the external 10 MHz reference circuitry on the board isn't so high that it actually degrades the radio's spectral purity, you might consider using a rubidium reference too.  The used price for these has climbed slightly but I think they may still be available for under US$100.  It appears that cell sites, which normally have at least one of these, cycle through them every 10 years or so.  This means that on the order of 25-50 thousand of these go into the surplus market every year.
Once set (they may be quite close as received) they are likely to stay put just fine without further tweaking.  Their short term stability (wider band phase noise) is not as good as quartz but their long term characteristics are excellent.

Just a thought...
Glenn n6gn
It is loading more messages.
0 new messages