Having problems automatically uploading from Log4OM to LOTW.

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John Chin

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Dec 9, 2020, 6:01:39 PM12/9/20
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Hi All,

I do not know what I am doing wrong.  My QSO are being automatically uploaded to QRZ,.  However, I do not see my QSO getting in LOTW.  Does the QSO get automatically uploaded to LOTW or is this a manual process?

I am using Log4OM version 2.9.  I have not installed 2.10 yet.

I have supplied in Log4OM:
  o User
  o Password
  o TQSL.exe path
  o Temporary Path
  o Station ID

The upload flag i have checked off "REQUESTED".  Should I have checked off "NO"?

Thanks.

73,
John

Pablo Sabbag

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Dec 9, 2020, 6:05:53 PM12/9/20
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Hi John,

First, are you able to upload to LOTW manually?
If yes, then Log4OM only uploads when you close the program or by manual request. This is by LOTW Terms of Use. It is not allowed to upload individual QSOs.

If you cannot upload manually to LOTW, then Log4OM will not work either.

Please let us know how it goes.

73,
Pablo, VA3HDL

John Chin

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Dec 10, 2020, 12:41:34 AM12/10/20
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Hi Pablo,

It looks like I have two problems.  First, it looks like there is a new version of TQSL.  I do not know if this was a problem or not.  I have installed the new version.  Secondly, LOTW does not like my installed certificate.  When I attempt to upload the QSO file through TQSL, it does not complain.  When I look at the load results on the web, the upload fails due to an invalid certificate. 

The way they want the certificate requested and installed.

I think I may have to request another certificate.  If the new certificates fail to load properly again I do not think it is worth my effort to use LOTW.  It is too frustrating to set up.  Is LOTW really that important?

73,
John

Brian Waterworth

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Dec 10, 2020, 7:48:26 AM12/10/20
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It may not be all that important to you if you are not chasing ARRL awards.  However, if you are interested in helping out other amateurs around the world confirm QSOs to support their attempts at achieving ARRL awards, then I know they would appreciate the confirmed QSO.  

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Brian
VE3IBW

Robert Galambos DEC CEC VA3BXG

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Dec 10, 2020, 8:38:54 AM12/10/20
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1) Pablo. It is not true that LOTW restricts uploads one at the time. I use dxkeeper (part of free dxlabs) with TQSL and after each loved entry, the software uploads the logged QSO to the lotw.

2) John.  I have a slightly old version of TQSL and my uploads still work. Not sure how to help, but there is a group out there (one groups.io) that provide support. You may want to try to reach out to them

DEC for YORK & DURHAM Region ARES.
ASEC GTA ARES section
When all else fails

Pablo Sabbag

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Dec 10, 2020, 9:08:56 AM12/10/20
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John
There are two "de-facto" standard services for confirming QSOs: LotW and QRZ.com - There is also eQSL.cc used a lot, but personally I think LotW and QRZ are the main ones people ask you to confirm their QSOs.
The beauty is Log4OM takes care of all of them seamlessly in most cases. Without a paid subscription you cannot upload to QRZ, but I found a work around importing directly from LotW into QRZ (manually) So I get everything synchronized with no effort and for free.

Robert
I didn't go to the LotW to verify if the limitation is true or not, I wrote about the limitation based on this message on the LotW configuration screen in Log4OM. Maybe you are right and there is no limitation.



73,
Pablo, VA3HDL

Pablo Sabbag

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Dec 10, 2020, 9:10:43 AM12/10/20
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It looks like the picture didn't upload on my last message, here it goes....
Screenshot 2020-12-10 090942.png

John Chin

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Dec 10, 2020, 9:20:44 AM12/10/20
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I have joined all the sites I found in Log4OM because I know people chase awards.  I used those awards more to get me to use the radio more.  The awards are nice, so far I am not really chasing awards just to obtain them.  I guess that bug has not hit me yet.

I will make a few more attempts to set it up for LOTW.  

I was tired last night and getting frustrated with LOTW.  I believe I made the initial certificate request from the Mac side.  Did all the transfer mechanisms TQSL asked for to get it over to my PC.  The frustrating part, I get all the errors messages about the certificate when trying to install the certificate, which is okay with me.  However, I wish LOTW had given me a more visible warning or error message about LOTW not liking the certificate. 

I really should not send out emails about software issues when I am tired.   I mainly use Macs now and only use the Windows world when I need to.  I am used to the challenges with available software and setups issues. I am learning a lot of the software in Amateur Radio is in the Apple world, just like most software.

When I look at the activity log, it looks like Log4OM was uploading at the end of each session of Log4OM.  I do recall seeing the upload message that it was uploading during Log4OM shutdown messages.  I just wish LOTW was more informative when there is an issue.

I will start by requesting a new certificate from the account on my PC.

I will join the support groups in groups.io.

73,
John



John Chin

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Dec 10, 2020, 9:42:25 AM12/10/20
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I have that checked off.  I have LoTW set up just like yours.

When I saw the uploading message at the end of each session, so I was happy.  I was surprised by the fast upload.  Since I had a few QSO at a time, I did not think there were any issues with a fast upload.  It is possible Log4OM does not print any error/warning messages/return status received.  It is possible that ARRL/LOTW does not issue them.

image.png

73,
John

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Robert Galambos DEC CEC VA3BXG

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Dec 10, 2020, 11:10:13 AM12/10/20
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I have never actually gone to the lotw website, but I do know that it works. Also the developer of dxlabs is one of the developers of tqsl as well.

As for defacto standards, yes qrz and lotw are used most often. But there is both clublog ( good for oprs requests for dx expeditions ) and hrdlog.

DEC for YORK & DURHAM Region ARES.
ASEC GTA ARES section
When all else fails

John Chin

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Dec 10, 2020, 2:52:09 PM12/10/20
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It is the website that says my certificate is invalid.  

image.png

In Log4OM I have the operator as "VA3BOF", I tried changing it to "JOHN CHIN" to match what is in the "Certificate Properties".  The upload still fails. 

image.png

I have submitted the log for them to upload.  Hopefully something gets fixed.

image.png

I tried requesting a new certificate and it complains that I have a duplicate date.

I could not find a help group "google groups" or "groups.io".  I will search again.

73,
John

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John Leonardelli

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Dec 10, 2020, 3:40:36 PM12/10/20
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John, I went through similar and gave up and went back to a manual log book

Man you have patience

I have all the awards that needed real qsl cards and now just chase special event stations and trying to work BXG on 52 simplex
John VE3IPS

Ham Radio is a life$$$tyle not a Hobby!
Take the radio outside and operate from the Field
Throw a wire in a tree and make a QSO




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president YRARC

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Dec 10, 2020, 4:02:36 PM12/10/20
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Hi John,

One thing you can try is to export an ADIF file then use tqsl to upload the file. That is the most basic operation. If that works, then you know the LoTW part is working. LoTW is great - don't listen to IPS :-) And, as Brian said, it is the polite thing to do.

73,
Chris

Robert Galambos DEC CEC VA3BXG

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Dec 10, 2020, 4:05:42 PM12/10/20
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Url for the group . Sorry the back end is groups.io but the domain is customized


DEC for YORK & DURHAM Region ARES.
ASEC GTA ARES section
When all else fails

John Leonardelli

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Dec 10, 2020, 4:08:59 PM12/10/20
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God Bless computers and HamRadio

I will stick to my Palm Pilot and my garmin Nuvi Geochron screen

John VE3IPS

Ham Radio is a life$$$tyle not a Hobby!
Take the radio outside and operate from the Field
Throw a wire in a tree and make a QSO



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John Chin

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Dec 10, 2020, 4:13:13 PM12/10/20
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Thanks,

I have sent a subscription request.

73,
John

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ve3e...@gmail.com

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Dec 10, 2020, 4:14:50 PM12/10/20
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I still have a TIMEX Sinclair here in a box.. my first personal computer…

 

From: John Leonardelli <ve3...@gmail.com>
Sent: December 10, 2020 4:09 PM
To: yrarc.group <yrarc...@yrarc.org>
Subject: Re: [yrarc.group] Re: Having problems automatically uploading from Log4OM to LOTW.

 

God Bless computers and HamRadio

 

I will stick to my Palm Pilot and my garmin Nuvi Geochron screen


John VE3IPS

 

Ham Radio is a life$$$tyle not a Hobby!

Take the radio outside and operate from the Field

Throw a wire in a tree and make a QSO

 

 

 

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 4:05 PM Robert Galambos DEC CEC VA3BXG <va3...@gmail.com> wrote:

Url for the group . Sorry the back end is groups.io but the domain is customized

DEC for YORK & DURHAM Region ARES.

ASEC GTA ARES section

When all else fails

On Dec. 10, 2020, at 14:52, John Chin <jchi...@gmail.com> wrote:

It is the website that says my certificate is invalid.  

 

 

In Log4OM I have the operator as "VA3BOF", I tried changing it to "JOHN CHIN" to match what is in the "Certificate Properties".  The upload still fails. 

 

 

I have submitted the log for them to upload.  Hopefully something gets fixed.

 

 

I tried requesting a new certificate and it complains that I have a duplicate date.

 

I could not find a help group "google groups" or " groups.io".  I will search again.

 

73,

John

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 11:10 AM Robert Galambos DEC CEC VA3BXG < va3...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have never actually gone to the lotw website, but I do know that it works. Also the developer of dxlabs is one of the developers of tqsl as well.

As for defacto standards, yes qrz and lotw are used most often. But there is both clublog ( good for oprs requests for dx expeditions ) and hrdlog.

DEC for YORK & DURHAM Region ARES.

ASEC GTA ARES section

When all else fails

On Dec. 10, 2020, at 09:08, Pablo Sabbag < pa...@sabbag.ca> wrote:

John

There are two "de-facto" standard services for confirming QSOs: LotW and QRZ.com - There is also eQSL.cc used a lot, but personally I think LotW and QRZ are the main ones people ask you to confirm their QSOs.

The beauty is Log4OM takes care of all of them seamlessly in most cases. Without a paid subscription you cannot upload to QRZ, but I found a work around importing directly from LotW into QRZ (manually) So I get everything synchronized with no effort and for free.

 

Robert

I didn't go to the LotW to verify if the limitation is true or not, I wrote about the limitation based on this message on the LotW configuration screen in Log4OM. Maybe you are right and there is no limitation.

 

73,

John Chin

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Dec 10, 2020, 4:16:26 PM12/10/20
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 That is no fun. 😛

At least you know you are alive by sometimes making your blood boil. 😁

73,
John VA3BOF



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John Leonardelli

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Dec 10, 2020, 4:18:36 PM12/10/20
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thats why i QRP    yelling for hours into a Mic to work alabama on 80m SSB    no blood boiling here

John VE3IPS

Ham Radio is a life$$$tyle not a Hobby!
Take the radio outside and operate from the Field
Throw a wire in a tree and make a QSO



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John Chin

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Dec 10, 2020, 5:08:35 PM12/10/20
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I did an export the ADIF file from Log4OM.  TQSL was then used to sign and automatically upload the sign file. When I later log into LOTW I get the activity message the upload failed as I have an invalid certificate.  No bueno.

I have a ton of these invalid activity messages.  I do not see any of my QSO loaded.  So I believe every time I have shutdown Log4OM an upload must have occurred and failed.

I have now sent a signed TrustedQSL file to them to manually upload it.  Hopefully, they can upload it.  Maybe they will send back a solution for my invalid certificate.  At least I can confirm the QSO I have made to date.  

I also do not know why it sometimes complains some of my QSO are invalid when it is uploading.  QRZ and others seem happy with the records.

73,
John VA3BOF


John Chin

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Dec 10, 2020, 5:16:16 PM12/10/20
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Come on, John, this is both frustrating and fun.

I think the word is perseverance.  Also sometimes it is known as pigheadedness. Maybe pride too.    

I think most software developers have this trait.  At least the old timers did.  You cannot give up until you find the bug and squish it.

This trait helped me try to figure the problem with my Shorty 4020 antenna.  I kept plugging away until I found the problem.  I have partially put aside my PS problems until I have the time to work on it again.

73,
John VA3BOF

Eric Brown

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Dec 10, 2020, 5:17:46 PM12/10/20
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John  

If you hate yelling into a Mic  try FT8 its where are the cool kids hang out!




Eric Brown
VE3EB/VE3OIC/VA3OIC
  
.__!______!___
//___||__\\___\\_____
|_/ \ |___|/ \_(O||||||O)
_( )_)=o=( )_)=o=( )_)

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John Chin

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Dec 10, 2020, 5:32:04 PM12/10/20
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Thanks.  I have been using FT8 for a few weeks now.  It is where the majority of my QSO are from.  I have three QRZ awards already.  I did not initially realize I had completed them.   I am working on a fourth one now.  I only need an Asia contact.  

I have now added a 17M leg to my dipole.  I hope this gets me more contacts.  I am adding one band at a time.  I have wires (10') cut for either a 10M or 12 M band.  I am not sure which one I will tune it for yet.

I have tried a number of Phone contacts.  I only have a few successful contacts.  I will keep plugging away at it.

73,
John VA3BOF

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John Leonardelli

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Dec 10, 2020, 5:41:03 PM12/10/20
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I knew it would spin back to FT8 and even DMR

Ok off to listen to peter Frampton comes alive on vinyl on a real stereo system

good Luck BOF


John VE3IPS

Ham Radio is a life$$$tyle not a Hobby!
Take the radio outside and operate from the Field
Throw a wire in a tree and make a QSO



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Robert Galambos DEC CEC VA3BXG

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Dec 10, 2020, 5:43:12 PM12/10/20
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Or ft4

DEC for YORK & DURHAM Region ARES.
ASEC GTA ARES section
When all else fails

John Leonardelli

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Dec 10, 2020, 5:46:37 PM12/10/20
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Real Hams PSk31 or Olivia with FLDIGI on their HT

Actually Presidents of Countries RTTY

John VE3IPS

Ham Radio is a life$$$tyle not a Hobby!
Take the radio outside and operate from the Field
Throw a wire in a tree and make a QSO



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John Chin

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Dec 10, 2020, 5:59:28 PM12/10/20
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John,

Perseverance is needed to complete a contact at low power too.  QRP is another form of self inflicted pain.

If you love it then it is fun.

John

John Chin

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Dec 10, 2020, 6:04:29 PM12/10/20
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He he he.

I have a 286 PC downstairs in the basement somewhere.  It has a special board installed to provide a huge 16 MB of memory.  I had to put the memory chips on one by one.  I also have a Pentium 90 laptop here too.

These are my first desktop and laptop.

I got rid of my EISA machine a few years back.

John VA3BOF.

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John Leonardelli

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Dec 10, 2020, 7:22:06 PM12/10/20
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i still have my Timex watch and 12 Palm Pilots   I even have the palm 7 with the Richochet Modem.........it doesnt do IC213

ok I am on with Ve9CB as  A VE lets write some exams people

John VE3IPS

Ham Radio is a life$$$tyle not a Hobby!
Take the radio outside and operate from the Field
Throw a wire in a tree and make a QSO



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Brian Waterworth

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Dec 10, 2020, 7:35:59 PM12/10/20
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Hey John, 

Did you follow these instructions: https://lotw.arrl.org/lotw-help/certaccept/?lang=en.  Read them carefully.

Processing your initial received cert (tq6 file) must be done on the computer from which you requested the certificate.  After that, you can generate a p12 cert which can then be used to authorize other tqsl program instances on other computers.  You only need to load the p12 into a running tqsl program.  When you generate your p12 file, you will be asked to assign a password.  Make it simple and write it down so you won't forget.  then you can use that file to load a cert into another computer's tqsl program. 

regards, 
Brian
VE3IBW

John Chin

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Dec 10, 2020, 11:14:48 PM12/10/20
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Thanks,

I believe I did read these instructions when I first got my certificate.  If I remember correctly I followed those steps.  I also recall that TSQl said the install was accepted or something to that effect. I did create a p12 file.

Unfortunately, I believe I submitted the certificate request from my Mac.  However, TSQL can only run on a PC. I loaded the tq6 file and generated the P12 file.

I will have to retrace all my steps again in the morning.

I believe LOTW has more security than warrants.  Nevertheless, I will see if i can sort out the steps.

John VA3BOF

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Brian Waterworth

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Dec 11, 2020, 8:11:57 AM12/11/20
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Hi John, 

TQSL can run on any platform (http://www.arrl.org/tqsl-download).  I run TQSL on Raspberry Pi OS (sudo apt-get install trustedqsl) or Ubuntu.  I never use Windows for TQSL.  

If you still have your Mac, then install tqsl there, generate your P12 file and then install tqsl on any other computer OS you want to use, then import your p12 file.

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--
regards, 
Brian
VE3IBW

president YRARC

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Dec 11, 2020, 2:23:57 PM12/11/20
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The other thing to try is contacting the ARRL. I've had to do that a couple of times and they've always been willing and able to help.

73,
Chris

John Chin

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Dec 11, 2020, 4:23:34 PM12/11/20
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Thank you everyone for your help.  Just to close the loop on my LoTW issue.

To make a long story short for those who just want to know what the problem was, the certificate number on the LoTW system and in the one in the TQ6 file were different.

I read all the documentation that was sent to me.  I reinstalled a number of times.  To no avail. My problem still existed.

With Mauro VE3TCV help, we tracked one of my problems to the certificate number that I was issued.

It turns out, I was having multiple problems and not one problem.  

The biggest issue was that two certificate numbers were issued to me.  No idea how I got two issued to me.  One was subsequently cancelled.  So the certificate number that I had and what they had on file was different.

The TQ6 file that I installed on my computer was the one they originally sent me but was cancelled.  So the exercise of me reinstalling the TQ6 file that I have in my email was useless.  LoTW support encountered the same problem when they tried to upload my QSO.  They finally reissued the TQ6 file with the correct certificate number.  I also sent an email to them for help.  Our emails crossed paths.

The second issue was in my QRZ.  I missed a step that linked QRZ to LoTW.  This also meant I had the P12 file from the cancelled certificate number.  Missing this step was immaterial as the certificate number did not match.  The third issue was I was using my email address as my user name. 

I think I have finally fixed up all my issues.  I believe I now have a link from QRZ to LoTW and a link from Log4OM to LoTW.  So hopefully everything will be forwarded properly.  

I also did a manual upload from QRZ, so everyone should have their confirmation now.

As a FYI.  If you make a certificate request from one account on the PC, you must load the TQ6 file from that account.  It will not work if you access TQSL from another account.  You must create a T12 file from the first account and load it into any other subsequent accounts you use.

I will say this again LoTW is too convoluted.  What happened to using the KISS principle when developing software.  Geeez.  It took a network specialist guy and a computer guy (myself), to track down the issues and to properly set everything up.  Also a LoTW/ARRL support person was needed.  Too many people needed to fix the problem. 

Oh yes, a number of LoTW/ARRL volunteers just sent back a message that the QSO file upload failed and to resend the file.

How is the average person going to sort this out?

Thanks again.

73,
John VA3BOF

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president YRARC

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Dec 12, 2020, 2:42:31 PM12/12/20
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Re your last question, I don't know how but many do. I get about 2/3 of my QSOs confirmed through LoTW. with over 10,000 confirmations. Mind you, the digital contacts are confirmed at even higher rates while the CW contacts, mostly with guys older than me, are more like 1 in 5, except with contests, where it is higher.

73,
Chris

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