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Would this make a fresh boot take longer, since you would have to compute all the offchain transactions before your PKI is up to date and you can talk to any other ship? Is this already case with Ethereum via eth-spider, or do we ask a chain explorer API the current state at boot?In general, I'm very much in favor. Expensive Ethereum onboarding is the biggest problem with Urbit IMO right now, and is only getting worse, and this seems a "simple" solution.Re: OpenSea - all planets not sent to the "offchain" contract address would still operate per normal, right? There'd be an Ethereum transaction log of Azimuth actions, plus the Urbit computed log for any ship opted into the rollup contract.Is there a bulk transfer function in current Azimuth that would make the initial sending of planets to the rollup contract less expensive? It's still like $20 just to transfer a ship, even if this makes Azimuth key setup "free", which stars would have to eat.For management for end users, would there be any usability changes? Would it just be a version of Bridge that sends PKI actions to some rollup submitter instead of to normal Ethereum? Bridge would also have to compute the rollups to figure out if you actually own a point or not, I think.
On Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 11:16 AM Mike Gogulski <mike@gogulski.com> wrote:
What would existing Ethereum-based markets like OpenSea need to do in order to support sales of planets spawned under this scheme? Or would that become impossible?
On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 4:18 PM Philip Monk <philip@tlon.io> wrote:
Jake, that's not a bad idea.
Anton, I imagine the specific address has no private key, and if we find a way to trustlessly transfer ships back onto the main chain, the galaxies vote in an upgrade that specifies how to transfer out of that address (eg by proving ownership in a ZK proved hash)
On Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 02:06 Anton Dyudin <ohAitch@gmail.com> wrote:
Given the economic value of "for $100 spawn an asset worth $10-$50" is presently dubious, is the "specific address" you yeet a delegate to just something Tlon-controlled? Paired with a pledge to execute the off-chain spawns if Vitalik pulls a rabbit out of a hat and makes the core Azimuth contract remotely relevant again - maybe have galaxies vote on it if you can find enough who can afford to
On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 21:43, Jake Miller <jraydermiller@gmail.com> wrote:
Do you put these RFCs in urbit anywhere? I know most of this stuff has been traditionally in email, but like entirely in urbit now and would love if i could comment / read these there.
Would be happy to copy these to ~middev/the-forge if you'd like.
On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 4:14 PM, Philip Monk <philip@tlon.io> wrote:
--One of the best gas price solutions, in my opinion, is a "naive rollup". I've attached a description which doesn't assume much blockchain familiarity.I like this solution because it's relatively fast to implement and reduces our dependency on external systems as low as it can go without compromising security. Essentially it just uses Ethereum as an event log and all the computation happens inside your Urbit instead of on-chain.It has significant tradeoffs, though. An important way to mitigate those is to make migration purely opt-in. That way, anyone who feels the tradeoffs aren't worth it can keep using Azimuth exactly the way it is now. Over time, we should be able to resolve most of these issues as other technologies advance, particularly ZK proof systems.
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> What would existing Ethereum-based markets like OpenSea need to do in order to support sales of planets spawned under this scheme? Or would that become impossible?
On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 4:18 PM Philip Monk <phi...@tlon.io> wrote:Jake, that's not a bad idea.Anton, I imagine the specific address has no private key, and if we find a way to trustlessly transfer ships back onto the main chain, the galaxies vote in an upgrade that specifies how to transfer out of that address (eg by proving ownership in a ZK proved hash)On Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 02:06 Anton Dyudin <ohA...@gmail.com> wrote:Given the economic value of "for $100 spawn an asset worth $10-$50" is presently dubious, is the "specific address" you yeet a delegate to just something Tlon-controlled? Paired with a pledge to execute the off-chain spawns if Vitalik pulls a rabbit out of a hat and makes the core Azimuth contract remotely relevant again - maybe have galaxies vote on it if you can find enough who can afford toOn Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 21:43, Jake Miller <jrayde...@gmail.com> wrote:Do you put these RFCs in urbit anywhere? I know most of this stuff has been traditionally in email, but like entirely in urbit now and would love if i could comment / read these there.
Would be happy to copy these to ~middev/the-forge if you'd like.On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 4:14 PM, Philip Monk <phi...@tlon.io> wrote:--One of the best gas price solutions, in my opinion, is a "naive rollup". I've attached a description which doesn't assume much blockchain familiarity.I like this solution because it's relatively fast to implement and reduces our dependency on external systems as low as it can go without compromising security. Essentially it just uses Ethereum as an event log and all the computation happens inside your Urbit instead of on-chain.It has significant tradeoffs, though. An important way to mitigate those is to make migration purely opt-in. That way, anyone who feels the tradeoffs aren't worth it can keep using Azimuth exactly the way it is now. Over time, we should be able to resolve most of these issues as other technologies advance, particularly ZK proof systems.
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