Introducing geturbitid.com

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Christopher King

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Sep 9, 2020, 3:20:27 PMSep 9
to urbit-dev
Hi everyone!

Today I am releasing geturbitid.com, a one-click solution for purchasing an Urbit planet and getting it hosted. It's open beta right now, so any feedback or bugs sent to he...@geturbitid.com will be greatly appreciated.

Is it possible to get this listed on the Purchase an Urbit ID section of the install guide? Happy to answer any questions to make this possible.

Looking forward to taking the Urbit community to the next step with this release. Thanks for all the advice here in urbit-dev over the last few months!

Galen Wolfe-Pauly

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Sep 9, 2020, 7:19:11 PMSep 9
to Christopher King, urbit-dev
This is very nice to see! 

I'd be perfectly okay with linking to you in the install guide, although it's not unilaterally up to me. Our policy has generally been, 'so long as we know you to be a good actor, we'll link to you.'

Christopher King

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Sep 9, 2020, 7:28:41 PMSep 9
to Galen Wolfe-Pauly, urbit-dev
If it helps, I am happy to send $20 of ETH each to up to three Tlon folks to actually make a purchase and poke around (ideally totally independent of one another). This would actually be invaluable to me as a source of user testing as well.

Josh Lehman

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Sep 9, 2020, 11:50:27 PMSep 9
to Christopher King, Galen Wolfe-Pauly, urbit-dev
Hey Chris, this is really cool! I’d love to try it out and would be happy to provide feedback.


~wolref-podlex

Christopher King

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Sep 10, 2020, 8:37:34 AMSep 10
to Josh Lehman, Galen Wolfe-Pauly, urbit-dev
Great! Send me an ETH wallet to send $20 to.

Elliot Glaysher

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Sep 10, 2020, 2:06:14 PMSep 10
to Christopher King, Josh Lehman, Galen Wolfe-Pauly, urbit-dev
Hey, I sent feedback and information separately. That means there's been two people who have replied to the offer already.


~littel-ponnys
https://urbit.org

Christopher King

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Sep 10, 2020, 2:42:13 PMSep 10
to Elliot Glaysher, urbit-dev
Sorry, meant to send this to everyone since it's very much a Tlon question.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 2:39 PM Christopher King <ch...@cking.me> wrote:
Yeah, I noticed the blank Landscape issue last night. You can click through to Groups on the top left, so it’s got some of the functionality, which is weird. 

From a Tlon perspective any idea why this is happening? This is booting from a static binary that I downloaded a couple of weeks ago. I know there are many OTA updates...did anything happen that might cause this if the binary is out of date?

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 2:16 PM Elliot Glaysher <ell...@tlon.io> wrote:
Ah! It's booted. Continuing where I left off.

- I got ~sanful-borhep. OK!

- Clicking that link shows a raw IP address, which is suboptimal but understandable given the screwed up DNS registration stuff.

- Was able to log in using the code provided on the asset page.

- Something is wrong with landscape. It doesn't show the front page. All I get is a page with "[sigil] All Groups / Home" in the top left corner, and "0" in the bottom left corner. I've tried force reloading. There's nothing else on the page.


~littel-ponnys
https://urbit.org


On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 2:05 PM Elliot Glaysher <ell...@tlon.io> wrote:
-everyone else

To test the flow, I went and signed up with the user account "iceman". Here's some things I noticed along the way with your flow:

- The password rules you set aren't compatible with the default keepass password generator, which is significantly longer character wise than your minimum, but don't contain symbols. I had to manually go and create a custom ruleset in my password manager to cover for the symbols.

- I only noticed the above after trying to create an account. I got an error, which was basically "there was an error" with no additional details. So:

  - Consider checking password validity before submitting.

  - Actually say what went wrong during a sign up error.

- The flow through Stripe went fine with no hickups.

- I've been sitting at the profile page for awhile now, saying that I have "pending-iceman-1599760573003" under my assets. But there's no indication of why it's pending or what the next action is. A link to etherscan or something would help here to understand what's going on. Is this a gas issue? Or is this not even block on Ethereum?

(I'll come back in a few hours to see if the site made any progress here.)

(My ETH address is littel-ponnys.eth / 0x61244DFbc625A058B6D79D151dbE44C7d42E992a.)


~littel-ponnys
https://urbit.org

Reid

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Sep 10, 2020, 2:45:24 PMSep 10
to Christopher King, Elliot Glaysher, urbit-dev
If you’re using nginx, try disabling proxy caching. I had the same issue a couple of weeks ago but that did the trick.

--


To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to dev+uns...@urbit.org.


Mark

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Sep 10, 2020, 3:53:32 PMSep 10
to Reid, Christopher King, Elliot Glaysher, urbit-dev
Proxy caching, and also the other config tweaks mentioned here:
https://stackoverflow.com/a/13673298

If it's loading the page, but not loading content, it's likely an EventSources thing.


~palfun-foslup
https://urbit.org

Christopher King

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Sep 10, 2020, 4:04:15 PMSep 10
to Mark, Reid, Elliot Glaysher, urbit-dev
Disabling proxy caching worked. Thanks Reid!

Elliott, Landscape should work for you now. If anyone is booting up a planet in the next hour or so, it'll take me a few minutes to make the change for this to happen with every new planet.

Elliot Glaysher

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Sep 10, 2020, 4:23:01 PMSep 10
to Christopher King, Mark, Reid, urbit-dev
I suspect you still have proxy issues, since now I get a red "Reconnect" button also, and in the inspector console, a whole bunch of ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED issues.

~littel-ponnys
https://urbit.org

Liam Fitzgerald

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Sep 10, 2020, 5:16:02 PMSep 10
to Elliot Glaysher, Christopher King, Mark, Reid, urbit-dev
Something might be wrong with your user isolation, just signed up and
I can see two planets that I didn't boot with access codes.
——
~hastuc-dibtux

https://urbit.org

Christopher King

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Sep 10, 2020, 5:26:00 PMSep 10
to Liam Fitzgerald, Elliot Glaysher, Mark, Reid, urbit-dev
Elliott: does it work now?

Liam: good call, that's pretty urgent so I'll work on that next.

Elliot Glaysher

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Sep 10, 2020, 5:28:09 PMSep 10
to Christopher King, Liam Fitzgerald, Mark, Reid, urbit-dev
It works now. I'm able to open landscape and DM my main ship.


~littel-ponnys
https://urbit.org

Elliot Glaysher

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Sep 10, 2020, 5:32:00 PMSep 10
to Christopher King, Liam Fitzgerald, Mark, Reid, urbit-dev
One weird thing is that it looks like an older version of landscape. The home hash ends in ukqs4 and the base hash is 0x0. (Compare on my main ship where all the hashes end with e135b.)

This ship is a child of ~ripten. Is that infrastructure ship up to date?

~littel-ponnys
https://urbit.org

Christopher King

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Sep 10, 2020, 5:34:15 PMSep 10
to Elliot Glaysher, Liam Fitzgerald, Mark, Reid, urbit-dev
Elliot: I haven't done much to the star directly in a while, so probably not. Should OTA updates be sufficient to fix what you're seeing?

Christopher King

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Sep 10, 2020, 5:53:06 PMSep 10
to Elliot Glaysher, Liam Fitzgerald, Mark, Reid, urbit-dev
Liam: is the user isolation fixed now?

Liam Fitzgerald

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Sep 10, 2020, 5:56:29 PMSep 10
to Christopher King, Elliot Glaysher, Mark, Reid, urbit-dev
Looks fine from my end
——
~hastuc-dibtux

https://urbit.org

Anton Dyudin

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Sep 10, 2020, 9:13:49 PMSep 10
to Christopher King, urbit-dev
Fairly minor quibble from far left field, but seeing "must contain numbers, symbols, and upper- and lower-case letters" makes me immediately distrust the site's general password management philosophy.

https://www.solarwindsmsp.com/blog/nist-password-standards2#:~:text=Complexity%20isn't%20king,weaker%20ones.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 12:20 PM Christopher King <ch...@cking.me> wrote:
--

Christopher King

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Sep 11, 2020, 8:32:20 AMSep 11
to ohA...@gmail.com, urbit-dev
In what way? I’ve decided to change it as it’s too verbose for destructions in a text input placeholder, but a combination of all the elements is the hallmark of a strong password.

Christopher King

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Sep 11, 2020, 8:32:55 AMSep 11
to ohA...@gmail.com, urbit-dev
Instructions, not destructions. Damn autocorrect.

Christopher King

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Sep 11, 2020, 9:51:35 AMSep 11
to urbit-dev, Christopher King, urbit-dev, ohA...@gmail.com
Also, I thought I'd done this but I seem to have overlooked it: I want to especially thank Mark for all of his help understanding Azimuth and the Ethereum blockchain in general. It would have been impossible without the generous amount of time he spent coaching me while I got my sea legs. Tlon and the Urbit community in general are lucky to have him!

Elliot Glaysher

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Sep 11, 2020, 10:27:54 AMSep 11
to Christopher King, ohA...@gmail.com, urbit-dev
But it's not.

16 characters of just upper/lower/numeric is a larger search space than 8 characters of upper/lower/numeric/symbols. pow(26+26+10, 16) is many, many, many order of magnitudes greater than pow(26+26+10+12, 8). And many password managers default to the first set. I almost gave up on your site when it errored on a stronger password than asked for, especially since it didn't give a specific error about what was wrong. Obviously you should not forbid special characters, but their presence does not automatically make things better because they are part of the base, not the exponent.

Also, Anton's link, especially the highlighted part.

~littel-ponnys
https://urbit.org


On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 8:32 AM Christopher King <ch...@cking.me> wrote:

Christopher King

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Sep 18, 2020, 3:29:08 PMSep 18
to urbit-dev, ~littel-ponnys, ohA...@gmail.com, urbit-dev, Christopher King
Hey, ~little-ponnys, sorry I thought I had responded to your last comment. That's really helpful feedback, and I have updated the password requirements accordingly.

I just pushed up a bunch of changes to prod based on feedback I've received from several places. Would love another round of eyes looking at it if possible from whomever is interested. Happy to send people some ETH to make a real transaction. Galen, would love it if you could be one of those people and provide your feedback as well.

Christopher King

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Sep 18, 2020, 3:31:54 PMSep 18
to urbit-dev, Christopher King, ~littel-ponnys, ohA...@gmail.com, urbit-dev
BTW, the old version of Landscape is still running in there. Haven't had time to fix that yet, so no need to point it out.

Jon "Poprox" Paprocki

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Sep 18, 2020, 4:24:16 PMSep 18
to Christopher King, urbit-dev, ~littel-ponnys, ohA...@gmail.com
I was going to send this to the internal Tlon docs email channel, but given that we have been opening up internal discussions more lately with infrastructure and interface, it makes sense to me to do that for docs as well as it has become much more of a community effort this year.

It's been 9 days since geturbitid.com was requested to be added to the install guide and in the intervening time a few issues have come up and been resolved, and it hasn't been listed yet.

I'm still of the mind that it should be listed but have no idea about what bar there should be to be listed. One of the issues that came up was that Liam could see two other people's planets - which was quickly fixed - but seems like a major security issue and I would have been embarrassed if we had listed it before that was resolved. Certainly I believe this particular effort is in good faith, but eventually scammers will come to Urbit and try to steal people's money or personal information this way, and so trying to figure out how to handle that process now seems crucial to keeping ahead.

At the same time, it is very important to support good faith community efforts in whatever way we can, and the longer we wait to list projects like this the greater the opportunity cost to the creators and more it discourages people from building on Urbit. Furthermore, I would hazard to guess that most people using Urbit are against the walled garden idea, and having any sort of process for this is moving in that general direction. So there is a balance to be struck.

I think having some kind of waiting period after launch would have an outsized effect to clear up bugs. Perhaps that would be sufficient for now?

Please feel free to DM me if you'd like to discuss this further, Christopher King. Since myself and ~rapfyr-diglyt are the two docs team members we are the closest thing to a gatekeeper here, and I understand your eagerness to be listed and share your desire to have a successful launch for an exciting project that you've clearly put a lot of time and effort into.

--

~datnut-pollen

https://urbit.org


Christopher King

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Sep 18, 2020, 5:02:39 PMSep 18
to Jon "Poprox" Paprocki, ohA...@gmail.com, urbit-dev, ~littel-ponnys
How about a two-pronged approach: you and rapfyr-diglyt each test it yourselves. Once you are unable to identify any problems, we give it an additional one-week waiting period while I promote it on other means (basically Twitter), giving a chance for more obscure bugs to slip out.

Jon "Poprox" Paprocki

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Sep 20, 2020, 12:45:54 AMSep 20
to Christopher King, ohA...@gmail.com, urbit-dev, ~littel-ponnys
Well, several people at Tlon are already testing, and to me the most sensible people to do that would be Tlon's people who are also working on hosting, not the scribes. That being said, personally, if the current people at Tlon testing tell me it's OK then I will add it. But, it's not truly up to me, or any particular person as far as I know. ~rapfyr and I just appear to me to be the closest people to occupying that vacant spot that will hopefully be filled by community standards. This particular thread doesn't need to be the place for that larger discussion to happen, but I would encourage community members to start pondering that question.

--

~datnut-pollen

https://urbit.org


Christopher King

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Sep 20, 2020, 5:22:48 PMSep 20
to urbit-dev, Poprox (Jon Paprocki), ohA...@gmail.com, urbit-dev, ~littel-ponnys, Christopher King
So I'm trying to fix the incorrect Landscape version issue discussed above. ~little-ponys asked, This ship is a child of ~ripten. Is that infrastructure ship up to date?. What is this question getting at? I haven't logged into ~ripten itself in ages, so going to do that and see if OTA updates happen, but is there something else that needs to be done to ensure it is up to date?

Christopher King

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Sep 20, 2020, 5:25:18 PMSep 20
to urbit-dev, Christopher King, Poprox (Jon Paprocki), ohA...@gmail.com, urbit-dev, ~littel-ponnys
Also, what is the quickest way to check that the most recent version of Landscape is in fact running?

Gus MacAulay

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Sep 20, 2020, 8:22:31 PMSep 20
to urbit-dev
Hi Chris,

I thought I might try your system as an alternative to navigating the ethereum world, when I click on sign-up it takes me to sign-in though.  Can you advise?

Gus

Christopher King

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Sep 20, 2020, 9:40:56 PMSep 20
to Gus MacAulay, urbit-dev
Hi Gus! That should be fixed now. Let me know if you encounter any other issues.

Mark

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Sep 21, 2020, 9:57:56 AMSep 21
to Christopher King, urbit-dev, Poprox (Jon Paprocki), ohA...@gmail.com, ~littel-ponnys
> is there something else that needs to be done to ensure it is up to date?

When ships first boot, they load in the version of arvo that's in the pill. Then, once they're alive, they ask their sponsor for the latest version of arvo (including landscape). So, as long as their sponsor is up to date (~ripten in this case), they will get the latest and greatest shortly after booting.

> what is the quickest way to check that the most recent version of Landscape is in fact running?

Simply run +trouble in dojo, and compare the values there against the base hash mentioned in the latest announce post for urbit-os.
https://groups.google.com/u/1/a/urbit.org/g/dev/search?q=announce%20urbit-os


~palfun-foslup
https://urbit.org

Christopher King

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Sep 21, 2020, 3:01:57 PMSep 21
to urbit-dev, ~palfun-foslup, urbit-dev, Poprox (Jon Paprocki), ohA...@gmail.com, ~littel-ponnys, Christopher King
Ok, figured it out. To anyone testing: the most recent version of Landscape should now be running on newly spawned ships through geturbitid.com.

John Franklin

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Sep 21, 2020, 9:40:32 PMSep 21
to urbit-dev, Christopher King, ~palfun-foslup, urbit-dev, Poprox (Jon Paprocki), ohA...@gmail.com, ~littel-ponnys
I signed up and was redirected to:
https://www.geturbitid.com/app/profile
There's no indication of what I should do
after successful purchase.  If it's wait
(it is), there should be a spinner or some
text explanation of what to do.

Hosted, but no https out of the box.
Perhaps you can preload self signed certs.

Is there ssh/mosh access?

Urbit ID says ~zod on the (Landscape) login page,
and it's not editable (by design, I think).
However, the +code for the planet works..

Kinda, I get 7 of these on the js console:
XML Parsing Error: no root element found
Location: http://<MY_PLANET-IP>/~/channel/1600737756637-b4e318
Line Number 1, Column 1:

The UI only shows:
All Groups / Home

Home is not clickable.

Clicking All Groups > Manage All Groups
takes me to http://<MY_PLANET-IP>/~groups
and shows Your Identity as ~zod.

Christopher King

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Sep 22, 2020, 9:35:35 AMSep 22
to John Franklin, urbit-dev, ~palfun-foslup, Poprox (Jon Paprocki), ohA...@gmail.com, ~littel-ponnys
Hi John!

Thanks for trying this out. The underlying issue is that your planet got spawned in the dev environment, which uses Ropsten and creates a fakezod. I have a lot of commitments in meatspace today but I'll try to get that sorted out as soon as possible. I made several changes recently in response to feedback so this is almost certainly caused by a one-line typo somewhere pointing to dev instead of prod. After I fix it, I can refund your purchase and you can try again. 

As for the other questions:

| There's no indication of what I should do
after successful purchase.  If it's wait
(it is), there should be a spinner or some
text explanation of what to do.

Doesn't the progress bar fulfill this? I try to never second guess user feedback (it's too valuable) but in this case I'm not sure I'm convinced the progress bar doesn't communicate what's going on. If you're not seeing the progress bar, let me know. Since this spawned on Ropsten it is possible the last stage never gets triggered, which might be the source of your confusion.


| Hosted, but no https out of the box.
Perhaps you can preload self signed certs.


That's part of the second major tranche of features, but that probably won't get done for a while. Right now I'm focused on addressing user bugs as they pop up and eliminating tech debt. Given the fact that the platform doesn't provide full security yet anyway and is currently intended as a kind of sandbox environment, it's probably not the most urgent task. I'd like v2 to make it properly secure, including some kind of proper privacy policy.

| Is there ssh/mosh access?

Theoretically yes, if I want to share my certificate with users, which I don't. So right now, no. Ultimately this will require creating one certificate per user which will then be associated with all of their ships. I'll have to look into how complex that is--it'll probably take some work and so will likely be part of v2 along with the enhanced security features.

Everything else should be a result of the incorrect dev spawn. I'll follow up here when that is addressed. Thank you so much for doing this, I really appreciate it!


John Franklin

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Sep 22, 2020, 12:30:31 PMSep 22