Re: [SIREN Discussion Forum] Digest for forum@sirensolar.org - 3 updates in 1 topic

[Christopher Norrick]

Darell, 

I appreciate the first hand experience. I'm on a similar journey to electrify our home. Hopefully folks can also take advantage of the HOMES and HEAR savings programs very soon. The IDOE had a presentation at the IU Resilience Conference last week and indicated that the program is moving forward (despite the current federal shitshow) and should soft launch in a couple of weeks. They have a new website for participants and contractors: https://indianaenergysaver.com

-Christopher Norrick

On Sun, Mar 2, 2025 at 12:21 PM <fo...@sirensolar.org> wrote:

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RE good news

Darrell Boggess <dar...@sirensolar.org>: Mar 01 03:43PM -0500 Several years ago when I saw a list of outcomes on a roadmap to sustainability, my first reaction was that it looked like science fiction. Now we are near the end of that road after passing most of the milestones including solar power, net zero from the electric grid, a cold weather heat pump that produces heat when outdoors is below zero, a ductless mini split heat pump keeping the lower level warmer than upstairs, an unvented heat pump clothes dryer, a plug-in 120 volt heat pump water heater and a mostly solar powered electric vehicle.   An existing gas furnace is backup for a cold-weather heat pump that is connected to the furnace heat exchanger. Our Centerpoint winter gas bills have been between $20 and $25 monthly for the gas furnace as a heat pump backup. The furnace is rarely used.   Today I want to share our heat pump water heater experience because it's an emerging technology that is becoming more accessible. The operation is similar to how a dehumidifier works. They need about 100 square feet or more of space. A small heat pump is on top of the tank. Heat is transferred from surrounding air to water in the tank with a compressor and fan. The water becomes warmer and the air is cooler and dryer. Ours is located in a heated garage that stays near 60° in winter. The dehumidifier effect will be more valuable in summer when humidity is higher and the garage is warmer. Condensate will be discharged to a floor drain while the garage becomes cooler.   We have a 50 gallon 120 V plug-in Richmond model that uses less than 1,000 kWh annually, replacing a 40 gallon natural gas water heater. The digital display allows setting water temperature at a desired level, usually about 120 degrees. The sound when the compressor is operating is similar to a portable dehumidifier, which is barely noticeable in our bedroom above the garage.   Various retail outlets have different brands, although some are made in the same factory. Home Depot has Rheem, Lowes has A.O. Smith and Menards has Richmond water heaters. Choices include 120 V plug-in without heating elements and 240 V with either one or two electric resistance heat elements.   Early designs a few years ago were called hybrid heat pumps because they had resistance electric heat elements in the tank as a backup for times when more hot water was needed quickly. The heating elements similar to those in legacy electric water heater tanks use lots of electricity (4,000 kWh annually or more) from a 240 V outlet and a 30 amp breaker. Some local owners of the hybrid models never needed to use the resistant element backup.   Newer designs offer more choices. A 15 amp hybrid heat pump water heater has a single electric heat element connected to a 240 V outlet and uses less energy than a dual element model.   Your cost will be recovered in a few years by energy savings. The initial cost is reduced by the 30 percent federal tax credit and a $350 Duke rebate. Some REMC utilities offer rebates. Confirm with your utility company that your model meets their efficiency criteria to qualify for a rebate.

Shawn Holsapple <sh...@hoosier-solutions.com>: Mar 01 04:38PM -0500 Thanks for sharing Darrell, I have the older Richmond Hybrid unit that we installed when we built our netzero home in 2018. We just leave it on economy mode, which won't engage the electric elements. We only use those when we have visitors over and need more than a normal amount of hot water. It's great that it keeps our mechanical room cool as well. Between finding an open box water heater at Menards on sale, the REMC & Fed rebates - the unit was less than a traditional electric/gas WH. Similarly, we have a dual stage, variable speed heat pump and ventless dryer. When it's too cold for the heat pump, we use wood and then about 70 gallons of propane a year on those very cold days/nights when the furnace does kick on. Since we are sealed up pretty tight [blower door tested under .5] we have an ERV that runs a couple times an hour that doesn't take much power at all. A perk of being sealed is that the attic is part of the conditioned space and lets us utilize most of the space for storage without worrying about items freezing or melting. Our 12kw PV system, along with the 55kw of battery storage, keeps us off the grid about 80% of the time and we only have to pull from REMC on those cloudy days.     Best Regards,   *Shawn Holsapple*   Spearsville - Brown County     On Sat, Mar 1, 2025 at 3:43 PM Darrell Boggess <dar...@sirensolar.org> wrote:

Madeline Hirschland <mhirs...@gmail.com>: Mar 02 12:34PM -0500 Darrell and Shawn, thanks so much for sharing your experience.   Like Shawn, we have a hybrid electric water heater and never use the backup electric resistance mode. Since we never use it, we would have done fine with Darrell's plug-in 120 volt model. Had it existed when we needed to replace our gas-powered water heater, we certainly would have installed one. A plug-in heat pump water heater has several advantages:   - No need to pay for new 240-volt wiring. It can simply be plugged into a regular outlet.   - Helps make it possible to rely solely on electricity for all your home and vehicle energy needs without upgrading from a 100-amp to a 200-amp electrical panel. If you're trying to figure out how to go all-electric on a 100-amp panel, please feel free to contact me.   But either type of heat pump water heater makes good climate sense and, in almost all cases, excellent financial sense   - except in a household that uses very little hot water, a heat pump water heater quickly pays for itself in savings   - because it is 6 to 8 times more efficient than a gas-fueled water heater, it is a better choice climate-wise even with Duke Indiana's relatively dirty electricity grid.*   Thanks so much to Darrell for your leadership.   Best wishes,   Madi   * It will be an even more superior choice over time. Water heaters can last for decades. With renewables now costing less than coal and gas, the electricity grid will increasingly be fueled by renewables - politics notwithstanding. As a result, the heat-trapping emissions associated with the use of a heat pump water heater will decrease over its lifetime. In contrast, a gas water heater will continue to burn a fossil fuel.   On Sat, Mar 1, 2025 at 4:38 PM Shawn Holsapple <sh...@hoosier-solutions.com> wrote:

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