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Darrell Boggess
Mar 1, 2025, 3:43:23 PMMar 1
to SIREN Public Discussion Forum
Several years ago when I saw a list of outcomes on a roadmap to sustainability, my first reaction was that it looked like science fiction. Now we are near the end of that road after passing most of the milestones including solar power, net zero from the electric grid, a cold weather heat pump that produces heat when outdoors is below zero, a ductless mini split heat pump keeping the lower level warmer than upstairs, an unvented heat pump clothes dryer, a plug-in 120 volt heat pump water heater and a mostly solar powered electric vehicle.
An existing gas furnace is backup for a cold-weather heat pump that is connected to the furnace heat exchanger. Our Centerpoint winter gas bills have been between $20 and $25 monthly for the gas furnace as a heat pump backup. The furnace is rarely used.
Today I want to share our heat pump water heater experience because it's an emerging technology that is becoming more accessible. The operation is similar to how a dehumidifier works. They need about 100 square feet or more of space. A small heat pump is on top of the tank. Heat is transferred from surrounding air to water in the tank with a compressor and fan. The water becomes warmer and the air is cooler and dryer. Ours is located in a heated garage that stays near 60° in winter. The dehumidifier effect will be more valuable in summer when humidity is higher and the garage is warmer. Condensate will be discharged to a floor drain while the garage becomes cooler.
We have a 50 gallon 120 V plug-in Richmond model that uses less than 1,000 kWh annually, replacing a 40 gallon natural gas water heater. The digital display allows setting water temperature at a desired level, usually about 120 degrees. The sound when the compressor is operating is similar to a portable dehumidifier, which is barely noticeable in our bedroom above the garage.
Various retail outlets have different brands, although some are made in the same factory. Home Depot has Rheem, Lowes has A.O. Smith and Menards has Richmond water heaters. Choices include 120 V plug-in without heating elements and 240 V with either one or two electric resistance heat elements.
Early designs a few years ago were called hybrid heat pumps because they had resistance electric heat elements in the tank as a backup for times when more hot water was needed quickly. The heating elements similar to those in legacy electric water heater tanks use lots of electricity (4,000 kWh annually or more) from a 240 V outlet and a 30 amp breaker. Some local owners of the hybrid models never needed to use the resistant element backup.
Newer designs offer more choices. A 15 amp hybrid heat pump water heater has a single electric heat element connected to a 240 V outlet and uses less energy than a dual element model.
Your cost will be recovered in a few years by energy savings. The initial cost is reduced by the 30 percent federal tax credit and a $350 Duke rebate. Some REMC utilities offer rebates. Confirm with your utility company that your model meets their efficiency criteria to qualify for a rebate.
Shawn Holsapple
Mar 1, 2025, 4:38:38 PMMar 1
to Darrell Boggess, SIREN Public Discussion Forum
Thanks for sharing Darrell, I have the older Richmond Hybrid unit that we installed when we built our netzero home in 2018.
We just leave it on economy mode, which won't engage the electric elements. We only use those when we have visitors over and need more than a normal amount of hot water. It's great that it keeps our mechanical room cool as well.
Between finding an open box water heater at Menards on sale, the REMC & Fed rebates - the unit was less than a traditional electric/gas WH.
Similarly, we have a dual stage, variable speed heat pump and ventless dryer.
When it's too cold for the heat pump, we use wood and then about 70 gallons of propane a year on those very cold days/nights when the furnace does kick on.
Since we are sealed up pretty tight [blower door tested under .5] we have an ERV that runs a couple times an hour that doesn't take much power at all. A perk of being sealed is that the attic is part of the conditioned space and lets us utilize most of the space for storage without worrying about items freezing or melting.
Our 12kw PV system, along with the 55kw of battery storage, keeps us off the grid about 80% of the time and we only have to pull from REMC on those cloudy days.
Best Regards,
Shawn Holsapple
Spearsville - Brown County
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Madeline Hirschland
Mar 2, 2025, 12:35:09 PMMar 2
to SIREN Public Discussion Forum, Darrell Boggess, Shawn Holsapple
Darrell and Shawn, thanks so much for sharing your experience.
Like Shawn, we have a hybrid electric water heater and never use the backup electric resistance mode. Since we never use it, we would have done fine with Darrell's plug-in 120 volt model. Had it existed when we needed to replace our gas-powered water heater, we certainly would have installed one. A plug-in heat pump water heater has several advantages:
- No need to pay for new 240-volt wiring. It can simply be plugged into a regular outlet.
- Helps make it possible to rely solely on electricity for all your home and vehicle energy needs without upgrading from a 100-amp to a 200-amp electrical panel. If you're trying to figure out how to go all-electric on a 100-amp panel, please feel free to contact me.
But either type of heat pump water heater makes good climate sense and, in almost all cases, excellent financial sense
- except in a household that uses very little hot water, a heat pump water heater quickly pays for itself in savings
- because it is 6 to 8 times more efficient than a gas-fueled water heater, it is a better choice climate-wise even with Duke Indiana's relatively dirty electricity grid.*
Thanks so much to Darrell for your leadership.
Best wishes,
Madi
* It will be an even more superior choice over time. Water heaters can last for decades. With renewables now costing less than coal and gas, the electricity grid will increasingly be fueled by renewables - politics notwithstanding. As a result, the heat-trapping emissions associated with the use of a heat pump water heater will decrease over its lifetime. In contrast, a gas water heater will continue to burn a fossil fuel.
Lee Lawmaster
Mar 3, 2025, 8:48:58 AMMar 3
to Madeline Hirschland, SIREN Public Discussion Forum, Darrell Boggess, Shawn Holsapple
To add to the conversation, which I rarely do. I too have one of these, an early Richmond 220v model. After a rocky start with it, I have come to really appreciate what
it does and hope they become the norm. I'm attaching an image of it's usage from the app for the last year.
D Boggess
Mar 3, 2025, 10:06:55 PMMar 3
to SIREN Public Discussion Forum
Lee,
Thanks for the chart. We have not yet activated the app. Is the 1,350 kwh at the bottom a cumulative total?
Your chart looks like a monthly January - December comparison for two years. If that is the case, it shows a summer dip in energy usage, possibly caused by warmer ambient air allowing more efficient operation.
A long term caution is that anything with a compressor has a relatively short service life of 5 years or less for some dehumidifiers and maybe 12 to 15 years for heat pumps and air conditioners. Fortunately, heat pump cost will be recovered in a few years by energy savings.
Darrell
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Arvind Gopu
Mar 3, 2025, 10:46:41 PMMar 3
to D Boggess, SIREN Public Discussion Forum
We have a Rheem h/p water heater and I've found the app to be mostly useless including its usage information which is oddly bloated. My sense monitor reading shows a lot less KWh used than Rheem's app. YMMV.
We had a GE Spring h/p water heater in our Indiana home and it worked for at least 8 years if my memory serves me right. if the compressor fails it's an electric water heater which is still a cleaner option than "clean burning" natural gas.
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