Today's head scratcher
Tom Johnson
Because I am essentially a lazy guy, I like the idea of a coffee maker that both grinds the beans and makes the coffee at the push of a button. Or does same when triggered by an alarm.
We have purchased a couple of these from quality companies over the past four or five years. Both were difficult to nearly impossible to clean because we couldn't easily remov the grinding device. With our current one, I literally have to use a channel lock pliers to pull the grinder basket off its shaft. I've tried lubricating (with Pam and olive oil) the shaft [save your sophomoric jokes, please], and that made no difference. Still a bitch to remove.
Yesterday, Dorothy was online shopping for another alternative and found six or eight, ALL of which cautioned that they should not be used at high altitudes. (See pic attached.) So today's head-scratcher: Sure, we know cooking and especially baking methods change dramatically at altitude, but this is a mechanical device. We're talking metals and strong plastics here. So how are these machines affected by our 7,200 ft. altitude?
-tom
--
J. T. Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA
505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h)
Twitter: jtjohnson
Arlo Barnes
Do you think the difficulty of disassembly is intentional or a flaw? Quick, someone get iFixit on this!
-Arlo James Barnes
Steve Ross
In truth Tom you like anything that needs to be programmed. True Lazy people get their coffee ground at the market....
(sent from mobile phone)
Steve Ross
+1 201-456-5933 mobile
+1 781-284-8810 landline
"editorsteve" on Facebook & LinkedIn
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Kim Sorvig
Since this is a combined unit, I’ll take a guess that it is not the grinding, but the boiling that is affected. To get the water out of the reservoir and up the tube that connects to the filter and grounds, the water has to boil; that temperature effectively changes with altitude. So if it takes a significantly more powerful heater to get water to that temperature within an American attention span, I can imagine some manufacturers cheaping out, and only making a limited number of models for High Altitude.
What I want to know is who Pam is, and I’m not even being sophomoric.
Kim
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Neil
Although, that might affect something like the viscosity of lubricants in the machine (if their boiling point is lower, they might get too thin to work). But I can't see it being really a big factor. If something like that is a few degrees from it's failure point in regular use, there's a design problem.
OTOH, I tend to run all sorts of stuff outside of manufacturer's recommendations. I feel most of them translate to "We haven't tried that, so we have no idea what will happen."
Dean Gerber
From: Tom Johnson <t...@jtjohnson.com>
To: dis...@sfcomplex.org
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 4:20 PM
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Today's head scratcher
Neil
And if it's an entirely metal basket, you *might* be able to 'fix' it by baking it. An old boss of mine once took a set of bearing races we had made that were just slightly out of spec and froze them overnight. I assumed they'd warm up to their original size, but two or three of them shrunk just the thousandth or so necessary to bring them back into spec. By boss was of the opinion that drastically changing the temperature realigned their molecules... I don't personally have an opinion on that <G>
Neil
Jack Stafurik
I also like the grind/brew makers. The one I’m currently using is the Cuisinart model that was on your attachment. It seems to work just fine. I never had a problem with either of my other ones as far as brewing was concerned. These were a Krups and a Capresso. (The Krups is my favorite) However, both of those died after about a year. They stopped boiling the water. No clue why that would happen. The mfrs thought the thermostats went bad. Very expensive to fix, after the warranty expired though! (about $100).
Depending on how deeply you want to clean, the Cuisinart is easy. You take off the top bean holder, flip up a plastic door, and using the handle of a thin fork scrape out the grounds that didn’t make it to the basket. I do this every week or two (using it pretty much every day). If you need to get the grinder out and clean it to a pristine condition, I have no clue how to do that!
Also no idea why the mfrs have a problem with altitude. Yes the water boils at a lower temperature (about 20 degrees F lower), but mine still works fine. I wonder if it is only the grind/brew, or all the coffee makers? If the problem is with the water boiling temp, then they should have those caveats on all their machines. I can’t imagine what major impact the grinding process would have due to altitude.
Jack
Owen Densmore
Nicholas Thompson
Ok, as the only non-hard-scientist on the list, I have some questions on some of the assumptions I thought I detected in the responses on the list. First, wouldn’t coffee brew faster at altitude? All you need is bubbles of steam to push the water up the tube. Doesn’t that form quicker here than at sea level? Second, it’s my understanding that sea-level boiling coffee is actually too hot for the best brewed coffee. The instructions on the aeropress, for instance, ask you to let the water stand for a few seconds before you pour it on the coffee. So, if temperature is the factor, high-altitude boiling water might just be the best thing. By the way, for cleaning the aero press is outstanding. You just push out the plug you have created and rinse everything in hot water and throw it in the dish drain. I am with Owen on grinding my own coffee. Let the experts do it and keep your bag in the freezer. And Ohori’s is significantly better (compared, say, with ‘Ho Foods Italian Roast). Ohoris grinds and roasts the coffee here, and the proprietor believes that desert roasted coffee is better because the oils that are driven out of the beans do not become rancid in a dry climate. I tend to trust him on this because I have noticed that everything keeps better in this climate, even if you keep it in the cool damp of a refrigerator. There just seem to be fewer mold spores around. To amuse the grand-kids I have taken to making little sculptures with orange peels. Here, they last for years; in Massachusetts the rot away in a few weeks.
I am even lazier than the rest of you. I make a pot of coffee once a week, out of ohori’s darkest stinkiest stuff, throw it in the fridge, and then nuke and serve myself expresso-sized cups all week. “Yuk!” you say. But I defy you to tell the difference.
(};-])
Nick
Marie F
"Normal environmental conditions" and "Extended environmental
conditions" where the break point for altitude is 2000 m. (an example
is http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/scopes/scopes.asp?fn=61010-1.html).
I'm not familiar with equivalent standards for consumer products, but
they're no doubt similar, and manufacturers may choose not to certify
to, or warrant for, "extended conditions".
Chuck Baldwin
Bruce Sherwood
Nicholas Thompson
Fellow Coffee Addicts,
If what I am going to call, The Ohori’s Theory, is correct, it is the place where the coffee is stored before roasting, roasted, and stored after roasting that makes the difference. Other things being equal, the best coffee will have been roasted and stored in high desert places. Boooo Seattle. Yeah, Bogota. And Santa Fe.
About 15 years back, we went car camping across the heights of Central Colorado for a month, and we used to stop everywhere we could and get a latte. We called ourselves the Colorado Latte Survey, and we ultimately had T-shirts made. The coffee was very, very good, considering some of the dumpy, outbacky places it was served.
Of course, the cause could [also] be that the relatively low extraction temperature of espresso at high altitude is kinder on the aromatics.
By the way, while we are talking about coffee, could I ask the hard scientists in this group if I am correct that dark roasted coffee is actually LESS acid than greener coffee AND contains less caffeine. I don’t know where I got those ideas and I would love to know if they are true.
And by the BY the way, there is some old psychological literature that when one is addicted to something one becomes, paradoxically, very particular about it. This would explain why there is an enormous amount of ritual and superstition surrounding marijuana, coffee, wine, etc., which is just plain irrelevant to the value of the product. The original literature purported to demonstrate that obese people were very fussy about what they ate. The implication was that, in some sense, obese people were having to tease their own appetites to maintain their overweightedness. I am afraid this all goes back to the sixties. Old.
Nick
Gary Schiltz
I love Ohori's coffee too (or at least I did when I lived in SF), but I wonder how it would fare under the scrutiny of a bit of double blind testing vs. Starbucks etc? Or whether or not the temperature of the water really has that much effect, or how fast you pour the water in, or any number of religious rituals that we addicts of the magic bean practice :-)
;; Gary
Nicholas Thompson
What's your altitude and annual rainfall?
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Schiltz [mailto:gary.s...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gary Schiltz
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 11:31 AM
To: dis...@sfcomplex.org
Subject: Re: [sfx: Discuss] Today's head scratcher
Arlo Barnes
-Arlo James Barnes
Steve Smith
Fellow Coffee Addicts,
If what I am going to call, The Ohori’s Theory, is correct, it is the place where the coffee is stored before roasting, roasted, and stored after roasting that makes the difference. Other things being equal, the best coffee will have been roasted and stored in high desert places. Boooo Seattle. Yeah, Bogota. And Santa Fe.
About 15 years back, we went car camping across the heights of Central Colorado for a month, and we used to stop everywhere we could and get a latte. We called ourselves the Colorado Latte Survey, and we ultimately had T-shirts made. The coffee was very, very good, considering some of the dumpy, outbacky places it was served.
Of course, the cause could [also] be that the relatively low extraction temperature of espresso at high altitude is kinder on the aromatics.
By the way, while we are talking about coffee, could I ask the hard scientists in this group if I am correct that dark roasted coffee is actually LESS acid than greener coffee AND contains less caffeine. I don’t know where I got those ideas and I would love to know if they are true.
And by the BY the way, there is some old psychological literature that when one is addicted to something one becomes, paradoxically, very particular about it. This would explain why there is an enormous amount of ritual and superstition surrounding marijuana, coffee, wine, etc., which is just plain irrelevant to the value of the product. The original literature purported to demonstrate that obese people were very fussy about what they ate. The implication was that, in some sense, obese people were having to tease their own appetites to maintain their overweightedness. I am afraid this all goes back to the sixties. Old.
Nick
Our own "Red or Green?" fetish in New Mexico is a good example. I grew up on Red as a staple (western NM, southern AZ) and Green as a condiment (little cans of hatch to be added to the top of this or that). When I moved to the heart of Green Chile country here in Northern NM, the obsession with Green Chile fascinated me. I couldn't afford to eat out regularly like most of my peers, so seeking the "perfect relleno" was out of my range, but I *could* and did buy, roast and freeze a bushel each year for domestic consumption. The first time I left the area for more than a week, I realized I too was hooked plain and simple. It took me decades to return to enjoying a good Red when Green was always offered next to it. I now choose Red for a cheese enchilada with an Egg now and again, and it is assumed for Adovada... but the rest of the time, it is full up Green.
With two Native NM daughters now living in Denver and Portland, I bring them a load of Green whenever I visit and their first stop off the airplane when visiting is Manny's in ABQ. I am of course, and unsurprisingly, clinically obese. Not the chile, but the high carb, high fat that goes with it (and the beer)...
As for Wine, I loved a quote I heard on NPR a few years ago... describing the abundance of good, affordable red wine on the market these days...
"you pretty much can't go wrong with any of these wines, the only ones to avoid are those with animals on the lable"... I'm sure this was totally tongue-in-cheek and a dig at the way the big purveyors have made the art of a cute or attractive label really the deciding factor.I still drink PInot Noir, Merlo, Shiraz quite gustily from bottles of Penguins, Kangaroos, Loons, Giraffes, etc. and I'm not afraid of screwtops either, though I look a little askance at the plastic corks when they come squeeking out of the neck. I don't mind rarely paying over $10 for a bottle, often as little as $2.99 (Charles Shaw of course). I draw the line at box and jug wine, though I don't know why.
My best wine ever, was from a small vintner in northern CA that I discovered at my local (at the time) wine store called "the Vine Pump", an oldschool firestation converted in downtown Berkeley that held wine tastings every Friday and Saturday evening. The wine was an old vine Zinfandel and was called "Green and Red" for reasons I cannot remember. I tasted it and immediately bought three cases... one for a wine snob friend in NM, one to gift around a bottle at a time, and one to drink at the rate of 1 a week mixed in with my two buck Chuck and the cute animals varietels. The case price was a mere $10 which I never told any of the people I gifted. They all raved, including the snob, and I didn't have the heart to tell him what he assumed was probably a $50 or $100 bottle cost only $10. He's treated me as if I gifted him like $1000 in wine when of course it was it only cost me $120 and 2 cubic feet in my vehicle driving back.
I learned to drink coffee working an evening shift as a radio announcer where all the *other* announcers were crusty old men (in their 40s and 50s!) who alternated cigarettes and coffee to keep their voices simultaneously gravely and smooth as they growled and crooned into the microphone. I never learned the cigarettes, but the rotgut coffee set a low standard for my palate. In my youth, all of the coffee I knew was made in a percolator or even more primitive, "cowboy style"... just put a kettle on the fire until the water boils then throw in a handful of grounds (usually from the big 3lb Folgers can) and let it settle for about 5 mins before pouring gently off the top. There were always grounds in the bottom of the cup and it was standard practice to just keep the pot going, adding water and more grounds to the pot through the day... but considered gauche to not start fresh in the morning, but for many old cowboys that seemed like just too much trouble or a waste of good coffee grounds. Remember of course, that the next can of coffee was a weekly or even monthly trip away, so old weak coffee was preferable to none.
When I first encountered "good coffee", what I noticed first was that it *was* fetishized... and that many people "ruined it" by adding milk and sugar. "good coffee" was too strong for me, too acidic so I too began to adulterate, and eventually as with Red and Green chile, developed a split palate. Good black coffee, robust but not wicked strong is in my roots, but a cup of "pie" (as my father called coffee with milk and sugar) is it's own delight. My friend who I gave the case of wine to gave me the best line when asked Q: "how do you like your coffee?" and answered A: "Dark and bitter like my women!" . This line is best used in the presence of one's spouse. And even more so if they are in fact dark and bitter (and proud of it, as most dark and bitter people are!).
Our own Doug Roberts who may only be on the sister FRIAM list fetishizes his coffee (almost as much as he fetishizes hectoring truth to power and bending threads off toward a prurient angle). I can still remember an evening of drunken revelry (does anyone know what cat bowling is?) at his house topped off with coffee made from beans he roasted himself that day, ground and brewed on the spot. After a half a bottle of wine and nearly half a bottle of scotch it was a nice way to wind back down (or up) before going home. Of course I was still wide awake 6 hours later when the sun came up. Wide awake drunk with the mingled flavors of Green Chile, Pinot Noir, Scotch, and some uber-fresh Ethiopian grog still swirling in my head... My (dark and bitter) wife drove us home that night.
As to Tom's original point about coffee makers not being "rated" for high altitude... I strongly suspect the biggest issue *is* the lower boiling point (someone quoted 191F?) of water at this pressure... with coffee brewing apparatti most likely being contrived to allow the water (usually heated to the steam point first) to cool just enough (to as you put it, be gentle with the aromatics). At (our) altitude, this factory set (designed into the plumbing?) calibration would yield *sub* optimal temperatures. I myself, pour through a Melita filter, directly from the kettle on the wood cookstove (with Melita and cups also on the stove to keep *them* hot). The only failure of this method I've had is to get antsy and pour before the water comes to full steam... or after letting it sit on the side below boiling for too long. At sea level, I can imagine that it *is* good to let it "rest" a bit before pouring... I think 90% of the first world's population lives below 1000 ft elevation.
As with Nick, I am a fan of Ohori's coffee (well, my wife is and I'm therefore by proxy) and I let them grind it. We store in an airpoof container and freeze or at least refrigerate anything more than a pound. I love the smell of freshly ground coffee and at times have used that as the excuse for in fact grinding my own... not because the result is noticeably better, but because of the smells in preparation. On that note, I'm taken to the image of Kevin Costner sitting at his campfire on the Dacotah prarie grinding coffee in a handmill. As with all things consumed while camping, half of the pleasure comes from the wait, the anticipation, the contrast with the elements, the work to bring it about...
You mention brewing up a big pot and refrigerating, then dispensing through the week. Since I fetishize the coffee making process and the aromas that go with it, I don't think that would work for me so well. Though in fact, during the summer, if I arise late (after my wife has had her cups and no woodstove running to keep it warm, I am given to putting the remaning coffee in the fridge and drinking it over ice later in the day. I've never gotten much deep stimulant effect from coffee, for me it merely "brightens" not energizes and a little "brightening" after a few hours of labor is a great feeling just before a mid-afternoon nap!
- Steve
-- Los Alamos Visualization Associates LAVA-Synergy 4200 W. Jemez rd Los Alamos, NM 87544 www.lava3d.com s...@lava3d.com 505-920-0252
Gary Schiltz
Gary
Steve Smith
Soooooo, Gary ...., What's your altitude and annual rainfall?
Nick192 × 278 - pinterest.com
Gary Schiltz
I'm not sure, but I think it is just about right for the Coca leaf? Or were you were talking about that other component that starts with a C shared billing with that early remedy-cum-refreshment known the world 'round as "Coca Cola". I understand that the Arabic culture made a fine art of Coffee before it was introduced into the dark, cold, foggy northern climates where it became a religion, but when was the Cola nut's caffiene first exploited?Soooooo, Gary ...., What's your altitude and annual rainfall?
Kim Sorvig
[Please forward to anyone sharing these concerns. The attached PDF duplicates the e-mail.]
Dear friends and fellow NM homeowners:
Since about 2008, several NM counties (Rio Arriba, Mora, San Miguel, and Santa Fe among them) passed or attempted ordinances protecting citizens from the surface and groundwater impacts of oil and gas drilling. These ordinances have become models for communities across the nation, the subject of at least one law-school thesis, and have been referred to as “the future” for their inclusion of citizens in the rule-making process.
Now these County ordinances are being attacked by Senate Bill 463, which would forbid counties from having any regulations whatsoever concerning “exploration, development, production and transportation of oil and gas and any associated remediation and reclamation activities related thereto.” We need to take action.
If this ‘State pre-emption’ bill passes, not only will all our work be swept into the trash, but we would have fewer protections than we had before. State oil and gas laws date from the 1930s; they focus almost exclusively on maximizing production; they assume 1930s technology, and levy fines that would have been significant 80 years ago but no longer serve as deterrent. Reverting to those laws would be the equivalent of complete deregulation, which has been industry’s goal all along.
I spent some hours at the Roundhouse yesterday, and it is clear that SB 463 could be ram-rodded through. Word is that the administration favors it (no surprise) and that NMOGA has been stealthily working on it since summer. We cannot be complacent if we intend to keep our Ordinance and its protection for private property, homes, agricultural lands, groundwater, and public places.
The bill will first be heard in the Senate Conservation Committee. Peter Wirth is the chair of that committee, and as you know, has been a champion of surface-owner rights. The hearing is not scheduled yet, but will be within the next week or two. If we cannot persuade the Conservation Committee to kill it, it would move on to the Senate Judiciary Committee.
If you value your groundwater, clean air, property values, road safety, and all the other aspects of life that a drilling boom would disrupt, please take action. At the end of this message are some of the arguments in favor of keeping local jurisdiction and against pre-emption. Please feel free to use the ideas (in your own words) and add as many other arguments as you can.
If you call a Senator’s office, you will likely speak to a staffer. Mostly, they give you time only to say “I urge the Senator to vote against SB463,” but have your reasons ready. Some will ask what District you vote in; a few ask your name or phone number (and once in a while, the Senator actually calls back). Keep e-mails to the point, and as concise as you can.
Contact information for Conservation Committee members is below. I suggest the following priorities, depending on how much time you can commit to this important struggle:
- Because Senators pay most attention to messages from voters in their own district, please be SURE to call/e-mail any member from your district, and urge them to vote AGAINST SB 463.
- Call/e-mail the bill’s sponsor, Carlos Cisneros, Dist. 6 (Taos, Los Alamos, and northern Santa Fe County) and ask him to WITHDRAW this bad bill.
- Call Senators Phil Griego and Richard Martinez. Both represent parts of Santa Fe County; both are Democrats; and it appears they may be undecided.
- Call all the other members, regardless how you think they are going to vote. It encourages the ones who already oppose pre-emption, and puts the others on notice.
- If you have time and energy, look at the attached District map, and contact anyone you know from other districts who would share these concerns. Ask them to call/e-mail the Conservation Committee member who represents their district.
Consider writing a letter (150 words or so) to any newspaper, but especially those in the districts where committee members live, and the larger-circulation ones (Journal, New Mexican).
If you can, please show up for the actual hearing; the date and time will be e-mailed as far in advance as possible. The Conservation Committee meets Tuesdays and Thursdays at 2:30; if your schedule permits keeping those times open for the next couple of weeks, that would be great. What impresses lawmakers most seems to be the number of people who show up and raise their hands when asked ‘who is here in opposition to this bill?’ If you’re comfortable speaking very briefly, you can usually do that too. You can park free in the new garage SW of the Roundhouse.
If we want to ensure that any new drilling that happens in New Mexico takes public health and safety and the rights of surface owners into account, we are likely to be on call for this kind of participation each time the legislature meets. I hate the idea… but we can never stop, since attempts to deregulate this industry never end, and are often proposed under misleading names (the title of SB 463 doesn’t even mention oil and gas).
Considering the alternative, a couple hours a year contacting Senators is time well spent. Please take whatever action you can.
Thank you
Kim Sorvig
First | Last | Pty | Dist | County(s): | Occpn: | City & ZIP of Residence | Capitol (505) | Cap.Rm#: | Email: |
Peter | Wirth | D | 25 | Santa Fe | Atty | Santa Fe 87501 | 986-4861 | 328B | |
Benny | Shendo | D | 22 | Bern, McK, R.A., San Juan & Sand | Ins | Jemez Pueblo 87024 | 986-4310 | 302A | |
Joseph | Cervantes | D | 31 | Dona Ana | Atty | Las Cruces 88001 | 986-4385 | 414D | |
Phil | Griego | D | 39 | Bern, Linc, S.M., S.F., Tor & Val | Realtor | San Jose 87565 | 986-4513 | 323 | |
Richard | Martinez | D | 5 | L. A., R.A. , Sand. & Santa Fe | Judge(ret) | Espanola 87532 | 986-4487 | 319 | |
William | Soules | D | 37 | Dona Ana | Teacher | Las Cruces 88011 | 986-4856 | 414C | |
William | Payne | R | 20 | Bernalillo | Atty | Albuquerque 87191 | 986-4703 | 109B | |
John | Ryan | R | 10 | Bernalillo & Sandoval | Bus.Cons | Albuquerque 87107 | 986-4373 | 416G | |
William | Sharer | R | 1 | San Juan | Sm.Bus | Farmington 87499 | 986-4381 | 415H | |
Pat | Woods | R | 7 | Curry, Quay & Union |
| Broadview 88112 | 986-4393 | 415D |
BILL SPONSOR | Carlos | Cisneros | D | 6 | L. A., R. A. Santa Fe & Taos | Questa 87556 | 986-4362 | 325B |
THE FOLLOWING MAY BE HELPFUL IN WRITING E-MAILS OR LETTERS TO NEWPAPERS
Arguments for local governance of surface and groundwater impacts of drilling
Relying strictly on the State for oil and gas issues is equivalent to de-regulation for the following reasons:
- The existing State laws date from the 1930s, when there was no fracking or directional drilling. The maximum fine for a violation remains $1000, which in 1935 was the equivalent of 2,500 barrels of oil – a significant deterrent. Today, $1000 is about ten barrels.
- In the 1970s, some lenient ‘environmental’ requirements were added to the State rules – in order to avoid having the much stricter rules of the State Environment Department apply, according to Mayor David Coss, who was involved in the process.
- The Oil Conservation Division is focused on ‘conserving’ oil and gas, that is, maximizing production and revenue, and avoiding waste or conflict between drilling companies.
- The OCD is part of Energy Mining and Minerals, a department that is run by a political appointee. This means that policies and enforcement change with every governor.
- The State relies heavily on severance taxes for revenue, which creates a conflict of interest where public safety, health, or welfare are concerned.
Surface and groundwater impacts of oil and gas drilling are the proper business of Counties and municipalities because:
- Counties pay for infrastructure that drillers expect to be provided for them at no cost. Among these costs are heavier roads for dramatically increased weight and numbers of trucks; professional fire and emergency responders and equipment because well-head fires and spills are beyond volunteer fire department capacities; inspection and enforcement of drilling permits, proportional to the amount of activity; the documented increase in meth abuse because drilling is dangerous, stressful, and boring, and crew living quarters are isolated, resulting in increased loads on medical facilities and law enforcement. The on-road mix of private cars with big trucks in a hurry creates public risk and increased costs for police and emergency services. During a drilling ‘boom,’ other infrastructure demands (such as schools, rental and short-term housing, etc.) increase too rapidly to be supported; once the boom goes bust, these demands disappear, leaving abandoned structures and other costly problems.
- Counties that produce oil and gas are often funded less by the state than others, because legislators think of them as “rich” counties, and give funds to other regions. According to the Oil and Gas Accountability Project, producing counties almost never break even, when the difference between infrastructure losses and state funding is calculated.
- If County taxpayers bear the costs, they should have some say in how drilling is developed.
- In addition to infrastructure costs, Counties stand to lose property tax as property values decline in and around oilfields; as well as losing many of the types of businesses that support New Mexicans, from tourism, arts, and real-estate through farming and ranching, all of which are at risk if drilling is irresponsible or booms out of control.
- Local governance is more adaptive to the widely varied conditions (from geology to existing economies) that characterize New Mexico communities.
- Local residents live with the results of well-pad remediation, and the costs if improperly done.
- Pre-emption would prevent Counties with limited economic bases from offering incentives for responsible oil and gas development.
- State Pre-emption is a clear case of Bigger Government intruding onto local jurisdiction and individual rights.
Industry arguments for statewide uniformity of regulations, and that de-regulation provides jobs, are false or limited because:
- Uniform regulation is desirable only if those regulations are up to date, enforceable, and strong enough to deter the relatively few deliberate polluters. Current NM OCD regulations are mostly out-dated, based on outmoded technologies, and without serious fines.
- Drilling and related industries provide 1 to 3% of real personal income in NM, and a roughly equivalent percentage of jobs, during good years. [Verified with US Census figures, as well as headwaterseconomics.org/energy .] The other 97% comes from other businesses, many of them at risk during or after a drilling boom.
- The fact that oil and gas jobs are often well paid is more than offset by the fact that a high percentage of workers usually are ‘imported’ from other states. Such jobs disappear with fluctuating global oil prices, and when a field runs dry. The highest-paid jobs, for drilling operators, are nearly migratory: once each field is drilled, operations move to the next region.
- Claims that “regulation kills jobs” are common, but bogus. The level of investment and drilling rig activity is controlled by two factors: where oil/gas geology exists, and what the global price of oil/gas is. Even if all public health and safety regulations were removed entirely, activity would still fluctuate due to location and global prices. Most job-killer claims are like the attempt to blame the NM Pit Rule for drilling’s decline during the 2008 economic crash – simply false.
- Industry claims that regulations “cost too much” are based on business models that assume the ability to externalize costs onto taxpayers.
THIS MAP MAY HELP YOU IDENTIFY PEOPLE YOU KNOW IN OTHER SENATE DISTRICTS
Chuck Baldwin
Paul Paryski
Robert J. Cordingley
re: SB 463 SignOn.org/MoveOn.org also offer an opportunity (http://signon.org/sign/vote-no-on-sb-463) to 'speak out'. This on line petition has a goal to get 200 signatures - they have 104. I suspect that with a little help folks on this list could blow past that goal in no time!
Robert Cordingley
-------- Original Message --------
| Subject: | Should MoveOn support this petition? |
|---|---|
| Date: | Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:17:31 -0800 |
| From: | Steven Biel, MoveOn.org Civic Action <moveo...@list.moveon.org> |
| To: | Robert Cordingley <rjc...@gmail.com> |
Dear Robert,
Marilyn Hoff recently created a petition on SignOn.org entitled "Vote No! on SB 463"—and we'd like to know what you think of it.
The petition is addressed to The New Mexico State House, The New Mexico State Senate, and Governor Susana Martinez, and reads:
Oil and gas exploration (fracking) can pollute the land and poison water tables. Please do not support a bill that would deprive local communities and governments of any measure of control or input over practices that could destroy their quality of life.
Here's what Marilyn wrote about it:
SB 463 is a bill introduced by NM Senator Carlos Cisneros, already assigned to the Senate Conservation Committee and awaiting hearing, possibly as soon as this Tuesday. If enacted into law, it would "strip cities and counties of their abilities to pass ordinances regulating oil and gas drilling in their jurisdictions."
Can you click to let us know what you think?
We'll decide whether to send this petition out to additional MoveOn members in your area based on your feedback.
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Kim Sorvig
Thanks Robert –
Some evidence that they did: Cisneros was on KVOT in Taos defending himself and says he has put the bill ‘on hold’. I’m suspicious of that terminology, but the hopeful outcome is that the bill is not heard this session. NMOGA, of course, is mad and pushing to reinstate the bill.
Thanks for your help
Kim
From: Robert J. Cordingley [mailto:rob...@cirrillian.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 3:44 PM
To: sfx Discuss
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] For New Mexico Friam folk: Please Help
Kim et al
--
Kim Sorvig
Thanks Paul
The e-mails may have worked: word has it (I’m not dancing in the streets until fully confirmed) that the sponsor is putting the bill ‘on hold’ so it won’t be heard this session. It will definitely be a bad penny, though. I’m cogitating whether some of us could put together aq travellloing lecture or something to inform people around the sate. But that’s for after I survive this session.
Thanks for the help!
Kim
From: Paul Paryski [mailto:ppar...@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 2:56 PM
To: dis...@sfcomplex.org
Owen Densmore
Robert J. Cordingley
As of this morning Mar 10, http://signon.org/sign/vote-no-on-sb-463? now shows a target of 4000 with about 3500 signed up. I wish they'd show a growth curve.
Thanks
Robert