Lives of Game Animals
Nicholas Thompson
Dear Everybody,
Sorry for duplication.
Some of you may have been raised on the Ernest Thompson Seton (no relative) animal stories, most famously those contained in Wild Animals I have Known. You also may be familiar with the house he built south of Santa Fe, which is now owned by the Center for the Love of Learning, where there is a lovely archive of many of Seton’s unpublished drawings. Seton’s life was an amazing story: he was first a bounty hunter and then an avid environmentalist, a real Saul-to-Paul, thing, and he is arguably the guy who started the American environmental movement. The Center for the Love of Learning has a remarkable “campus” E. of Seton Village, just off 25, which is well worth a visit. At the moment, I believe they are focusing on programs for the Santa Fe Schools, but they have broader plans and the facilities to back those plans up. Like many of you, they are interested in hands-on learning.
So why am I telling you all, all of this? Seton wrote an enormous book called The Lives of Game Animals, which is badly in need of a modern edition. There is an editor eager to work on it but no electronic text. So, we are talking about scanning and OCR-ing about 3000 words in a somewhat antique type face. I would really love to see a properly edited version of this work in print before I croak. Here are my questions:
(1) Does anybody have experience with a really good OCR software. What does it cost? What sort of error rate should I expect, given the conditions described above?
(2) Can anybody think of somebody who would be willing to do this work? What would such a person charge?
(3) Can anybody think of an agency, foundation, etc., lit’ry or scientific, that would be willing to fund such a project? Is there somebody at Google who might be willing to help in some way?
(4) Are there any other questions I should have asked you? What are their answers? Are there other people to whom I should have asked these questions? What are their email addresses? Or would you be so kind as to forward this inquiry to them?
Thanks for any help you can offer.
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
Gary Schiltz
Roger Critchlow
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Steve Smith
The good news is that Google has already done some of the heavy lifting on this... they have already scanned it and OCRed it enough to make it indexable by Google?�
It is available for *printing* by an Espresso Book Machine.� I've seen one in operation at Powell's in Portland and I am given to understand that there is one operating at Tattered Cover in Denver.� But this is a print of a *facsimile* for better or worse.
The title and chapter heading text font is a bit obscure, possibly hand scripted rather than typeset?� It is reminiscent of Rennie MackIntosh. The bulk of the body is a simple serif'ed font.� My wife, an old school graphic designer and book designer couldn't give me a better guess than "one of the 'Times'� family".�� This is good news in that it can very likely be OCR'd efficiently.�
The bulk of the work would probably be copy-editing, transcribing and typesetting the "Illustrated" titles and many illustrations throughout.
In your asking about funding, etc... I'm left to think of the joke "If we had some rope, we could make a log raft, if we had some logs."��� Is there NO funding identified for this yet?
- Steve
Nick, is 3000 words a typo? If not, I wouldn't think it would be worth the effort of OCR scanning it, just type it in from scratch. On the other hand, I suppose a searchable PDF of even a small document would be nice, and I imagine that would be hard to produce one without OCR scanning it.
On Feb 26, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Nicholas Thompson <nickth...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Dear Everybody,�Sorry for duplication.��Some of you� may have been raised on the Ernest Thompson Seton (no relative) animal stories, most famously those contained�in Wild Animals I have Known.�� You also may be familiar with the house he built south of Santa Fe, which is now owned by the Center for the Love of Learning, where there is a lovely archive of many of Seton�s unpublished drawings.� �Seton�s life was an amazing story: he was first a bounty hunter and then an avid environmentalist, a real Saul-to-Paul, thing, and he is arguably the guy who started the American environmental movement.� The Center for the Love of Learning has a remarkable �campus� E. of Seton Village, just off 25, which is well worth a visit.� At the moment, I believe they are focusing on programs for the Santa Fe Schools, but they have broader plans and the facilities to back those plans up.� Like many of you, they are interested in hands-on learning.��So why am I telling you all, all of this? Seton wrote an enormous book called�The Lives of Game Animals,�which is badly in need of a modern edition.� There is an editor eager to work on it but no electronic text.� �So, we are talking about scanning and OCR-ing about 3000 words in a somewhat antique type face.� I would really love to see a properly edited version of this work in print before I croak.� Here are my questions:�(1)����Does anybody have experience with a really good OCR software.� What does it cost?� What sort of error rate should I expect, given the conditions described above?�(2)����Can anybody think of somebody who would be willing to do this work?� What would such a person charge?�(3)����Can anybody think of an agency, foundation, etc., lit�ry or scientific, that would be willing to fund such a project? �Is there somebody at Google who might be willing to help in some way?�(4)����Are there any other questions I should have asked you?� What are their answers?� Are there other people to whom I should have asked these questions?� What are their email addresses?� Or would you be so kind as to forward this inquiry to them?�
Thanks for any help you can offer.
�Nick
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Roger Critchlow
And I guess the bad news might be that your friends in Seton Village do not hold the copyright, or they would have already known that google had the scan? Says copyright 1909, 1927 by Ernest Thompson Seton on the part of one page that google let me look at.
-- rec --
Nick -
The good news is that Google has already done some of the heavy lifting on this... they have already scanned it and OCRed it enough to make it indexable by Google?
It is available for *printing* by an Espresso Book Machine. I've seen one in operation at Powell's in Portland and I am given to understand that there is one operating at Tattered Cover in Denver. But this is a print of a *facsimile* for better or worse.
The title and chapter heading text font is a bit obscure, possibly hand scripted rather than typeset? It is reminiscent of Rennie MackIntosh. The bulk of the body is a simple serif'ed font. My wife, an old school graphic designer and book designer couldn't give me a better guess than "one of the 'Times' family". This is good news in that it can very likely be OCR'd efficiently.
The bulk of the work would probably be copy-editing, transcribing and typesetting the "Illustrated" titles and many illustrations throughout.
In your asking about funding, etc... I'm left to think of the joke "If we had some rope, we could make a log raft, if we had some logs." Is there NO funding identified for this yet?
- Steve
Nick, is 3000 words a typo? If not, I wouldn't think it would be worth the effort of OCR scanning it, just type it in from scratch. On the other hand, I suppose a searchable PDF of even a small document would be nice, and I imagine that would be hard to produce one without OCR scanning it.
On Feb 26, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Nicholas Thompson <nickth...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Dear Everybody,
Sorry for duplication.Some of you may have been raised on the Ernest Thompson Seton (no relative) animal stories, most famously those contained in Wild Animals I have Known. You also may be familiar with the house he built south of Santa Fe, which is now owned by the Center for the Love of Learning, where there is a lovely archive of many of Seton’s unpublished drawings. Seton’s life was an amazing story: he was first a bounty hunter and then an avid environmentalist, a real Saul-to-Paul, thing, and he is arguably the guy who started the American environmental movement. The Center for the Love of Learning has a remarkable “campus” E. of Seton Village, just off 25, which is well worth a visit. At the moment, I believe they are focusing on programs for the Santa Fe Schools, but they have broader plans and the facilities to back those plans up. Like many of you, they are interested in hands-on learning.So why am I telling you all, all of this? Seton wrote an enormous book called The Lives of Game Animals, which is badly in need of a modern edition. There is an editor eager to work on it but no electronic text. So, we are talking about scanning and OCR-ing about 3000 words in a somewhat antique type face. I would really love to see a properly edited version of this work in print before I croak. Here are my questions:(1) Does anybody have experience with a really good OCR software. What does it cost? What sort of error rate should I expect, given the conditions described above?(2) Can anybody think of somebody who would be willing to do this work? What would such a person charge?(3) Can anybody think of an agency, foundation, etc., lit’ry or scientific, that would be willing to fund such a project? Is there somebody at Google who might be willing to help in some way?
(4) Are there any other questions I should have asked you? What are their answers? Are there other people to whom I should have asked these questions? What are their email addresses? Or would you be so kind as to forward this inquiry to them?
Thanks for any help you can offer.
Nick
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Steve Smith
I am as we speak, trying to get google docs/drive to OCR it to it's best ability... but that is not as straightforward (yet) as I hoped.
And I guess the bad news might be that your friends in Seton Village do not hold the copyright, or they would have already known that google had the scan? �Says copyright 1909, 1927 by Ernest Thompson Seton on the part of one page that google let me look at.
-- rec --
On Feb 26, 2013 7:52 PM, "Steve Smith" <s...@lava3d.com> wrote:
Nick -
The good news is that Google has already done some of the heavy lifting on this... they have already scanned it and OCRed it enough to make it indexable by Google?�
It is available for *printing* by an Espresso Book Machine.� I've seen one in operation at Powell's in Portland and I am given to understand that there is one operating at Tattered Cover in Denver.� But this is a print of a *facsimile* for better or worse.
The title and chapter heading text font is a bit obscure, possibly hand scripted rather than typeset?� It is reminiscent of Rennie MackIntosh. The bulk of the body is a simple serif'ed font.� My wife, an old school graphic designer and book designer couldn't give me a better guess than "one of the 'Times'� family".�� This is good news in that it can very likely be OCR'd efficiently.�
The bulk of the work would probably be copy-editing, transcribing and typesetting the "Illustrated" titles and many illustrations throughout.
In your asking about funding, etc... I'm left to think of the joke "If we had some rope, we could make a log raft, if we had some logs."��� Is there NO funding identified for this yet?
- Steve
Nick, is 3000 words a typo? If not, I wouldn't think it would be worth the effort of OCR scanning it, just type it in from scratch. On the other hand, I suppose a searchable PDF of even a small document would be nice, and I imagine that would be hard to produce one without OCR scanning it.
On Feb 26, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Nicholas Thompson <nickth...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Dear Everybody,
�Sorry for duplication.��Some of you� may have been raised on the Ernest Thompson Seton (no relative) animal stories, most famously those contained�in Wild Animals I have Known.�� You also may be familiar with the house he built south of Santa Fe, which is now owned by the Center for the Love of Learning, where there is a lovely archive of many of Seton�s unpublished drawings.� �Seton�s life was an amazing story: he was first a bounty hunter and then an avid environmentalist, a real Saul-to-Paul, thing, and he is arguably the guy who started the American environmental movement.� The Center for the Love of Learning has a remarkable �campus� E. of Seton Village, just off 25, which is well worth a visit.� At the moment, I believe they are focusing on programs for the Santa Fe Schools, but they have broader plans and the facilities to back those plans up.� Like many of you, they are interested in hands-on learning.��So why am I telling you all, all of this? Seton wrote an enormous book called�The Lives of Game Animals,�which is badly in need of a modern edition.� There is an editor eager to work on it but no electronic text.� �So, we are talking about scanning and OCR-ing about 3000 words in a somewhat antique type face.� I would really love to see a properly edited version of this work in print before I croak.� Here are my questions:�(1)����Does anybody have experience with a really good OCR software.� What does it cost?� What sort of error rate should I expect, given the conditions described above?�(2)����Can anybody think of somebody who would be willing to do this work?� What would such a person charge?�(3)����Can anybody think of an agency, foundation, etc., lit�ry or scientific, that would be willing to fund such a project? �Is there somebody at Google who might be willing to help in some way?�
(4)����Are there any other questions I should have asked you?� What are their answers?� Are there other people to whom I should have asked these questions?� What are their email addresses?� Or would you be so kind as to forward this inquiry to them?�
Thanks for any help you can offer.
�Nick
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Nicholas Thompson
Thanks, Steve. This is really helpful. I will chase you suggestions down. Nick
From: Steve Smith [mailto:s...@lava3d.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 7:52 PM
To: dis...@sfcomplex.org
Subject: Re: [sfx: Discuss] Lives of Game Animals
Nick -
The good news is that Google has already done some of the heavy lifting on this... they have already scanned it and OCRed it enough to make it indexable by Google?
It is available for *printing* by an Espresso Book Machine. I've seen one in operation at Powell's in Portland and I am given to understand that there is one operating at Tattered Cover in Denver. But this is a print of a *facsimile* for better or worse.
The title and chapter heading text font is a bit obscure, possibly hand scripted rather than typeset? It is reminiscent of Rennie MackIntosh. The bulk of the body is a simple serif'ed font. My wife, an old school graphic designer and book designer couldn't give me a better guess than "one of the 'Times' family". This is good news in that it can very likely be OCR'd efficiently.
The bulk of the work would probably be copy-editing, transcribing and typesetting the "Illustrated" titles and many illustrations throughout.
In your asking about funding, etc... I'm left to think of the joke "If we had some rope, we could make a log raft, if we had some logs." Is there NO funding identified for this yet?
- Steve
Nick, is 3000 words a typo? If not, I wouldn't think it would be worth the effort of OCR scanning it, just type it in from scratch. On the other hand, I suppose a searchable PDF of even a small document would be nice, and I imagine that would be hard to produce one without OCR scanning it.
On Feb 26, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Nicholas Thompson <nickth...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Dear Everybody,
Sorry for duplication.
Some of you may have been raised on the Ernest Thompson Seton (no relative) animal stories, most famously those contained in Wild Animals I have Known. You also may be familiar with the house he built south of Santa Fe, which is now owned by the Center for the Love of Learning, where there is a lovely archive of many of Seton’s unpublished drawings. Seton’s life was an amazing story: he was first a bounty hunter and then an avid environmentalist, a real Saul-to-Paul, thing, and he is arguably the guy who started the American environmental movement. The Center for the Love of Learning has a remarkable “campus” E. of Seton Village, just off 25, which is well worth a visit. At the moment, I believe they are focusing on programs for the Santa Fe Schools, but they have broader plans and the facilities to back those plans up. Like many of you, they are interested in hands-on learning.
So why am I telling you all, all of this? Seton wrote an enormous book called The Lives of Game Animals, which is badly in need of a modern edition. There is an editor eager to work on it but no electronic text. So, we are talking about scanning and OCR-ing about 3000 words in a somewhat antique type face. I would really love to see a properly edited version of this work in print before I croak. Here are my questions:
(1) Does anybody have experience with a really good OCR software. What does it cost? What sort of error rate should I expect, given the conditions described above?
(2) Can anybody think of somebody who would be willing to do this work? What would such a person charge?
(3) Can anybody think of an agency, foundation, etc., lit’ry or scientific, that would be willing to fund such a project? Is there somebody at Google who might be willing to help in some way?
(4) Are there any other questions I should have asked you? What are their answers? Are there other people to whom I should have asked these questions? What are their email addresses? Or would you be so kind as to forward this inquiry to them?
Thanks for any help you can offer.
Nick
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Nicholas Thompson
Thanks roger. 3.000 words was indeed a typo. I am a little puzzled by the notion of 170,000 results. That surely doesn’t mean 170,000 different texts in their “catalogue”, does it? I could believe 170 “hits”, but you didn’t say that. N
From: rogercr...@gmail.com [mailto:rogercr...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Roger Critchlow
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 7:41 PM
To: dis...@sfcomplex.org
Subject: Re: [sfx: Discuss] Lives of Game Animals
It's 4 volumes, so 3000 pages.
Roger Critchlow
Nicholas Thompson
Thanks, Roger, Steve,
Yes, copyright is, as always, something that would have to be arranged. The latest copyright is in the 19 (!) fifties. OCR-ing it is, I think, fair use, as long as one does not publish the results. So, one can begin exploring the possibilities without violating copyright. And then, optimist that I am, I cannot believe that the holders of the copyright would not be happy to have the book put back into circulation in a modern form. But you know where my optimism has gotten me in the past.
About the cost of good OCR software: does it make more sense to think of taking this to a ‘service”. Or buying the software and hiring somebody to do the work of generating the “rough draft.” . Or finding some cane-carrying 75-year-old to do it for his summer vacation?
Nick
From: rogercr...@gmail.com [mailto:rogercr...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Roger Critchlow
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 8:49 PM
To: dis...@sfcomplex.org
Subject: Re: [sfx: Discuss] Lives of Game Animals
And I guess the bad news might be that your friends in Seton Village do not hold the copyright, or they would have already known that google had the scan? Says copyright 1909, 1927 by Ernest Thompson Seton on the part of one page that google let me look at.
Nicholas Thompson
You guys are the greatest. N