Ic1795 at 37.5 hours

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Richard Crisp

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Oct 15, 2012, 3:09:22 AM10/15/12
to astro...@seds.org
First light for the ML29050. This is a really neat little camera that features 29million pixels in an interline architecture at 5.5 microns in a sensor the size of a 35mm film frame. ThebQE is in the mid 40s, so it gives good signal reasonably fast

Taken using the AP155EDF f/7



Butler, Ray

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Oct 15, 2012, 7:18:33 AM10/15/12
to Richard Crisp, astro...@seds.org

Three wonderful shots, Richard! I especially like the Heart and Soul/Foetus.

 

Very interesting to see the KAI-29050 chip in action. Your FLI is the first camera that I am aware of, photographic or astronomical, which uses this sensor. I got the datasheet about 18 months ago, and it looked like when Kodak designed it, they had an upgrade to the Leica M9 camera (18 MP KAF-18500 CCD) in mind. But Leica have now (sensibly) switched to CMOS in their new M – for lower readnoise/higher ISO, lower darknoise, LiveView, video etc. So the KAI-29050 could be end up becoming an “orphan” sensor, used only in special astro cameras?

 

Cheers,

Ray

Richard Crisp

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Oct 15, 2012, 8:34:09 AM10/15/12
to Butler, Ray, astro...@seds.org
I too have had my eye on one of these sensors use in an astronomical application. Other than the moderately shallow well capacity of 20.5Ke-, it looked pretty decent spec-wise.
 
One of the reasons  why I shot the IC1795 the way I did, using clear luminance atop emission line data (which doesn’t alter the color balance btw, unlike Halpha used in that capacity) was to see just how much of a problem the stars would be in a 15 minute clear exposure.

Well some of them saturated but the antiblooming treated them nicely. There were no ill effects resulting.
 
For the emission line data, I saw only a handfull of saturated stars and then only on the really bright ones...
 
My conclusion is that well depth is way overrated...
 
I’ve observed that ‘conventional wisdom’ in the astro world is usually nonsense propagated by the ignorant that are both ignorant of the technology and ignorant of the depth of their own ignorance, and after using this camera for a couple of months I lump the well capacity comments I have heard from these self-appointed non-technical “experts'” as further examples of the second class of ignorance.
 
The sensor is plug compatible with the newly upgraded KAI16000 that is called the KAI16060 so even if this experiment was a “bust” (It was not), there’s a nice pathway to switching to a more conventional sensor.
 
The camera features both a 12MHz and a 4MHz mode of operation and I used the slower speed mode. It takes a while to download because FLI elected to use the sensor in single output mode, so all pixels must be read-out via a single port, unlike the PL39000 that uses two ports.
 
I  think for general astro-market consumption, that was the better choice because there’s no need to deal with differential offset level shifts and their impact on calibration that I generally deal with using the PL39000 and my habit of keeping a library of darks that I use for a year or longer.
 
In the PL39000 case, the ambient temperature in play has some impact on the absolute offset levels for the two  independent readout systems so I find that  to use my library darks  I often need to apply a fixed offset to one side versus the other to eliminate the seam. If I shoot darks on the night I take my image data usually that is less of an issue. However I have developed a good method for avoiding the differential offset issue by careful calibrations and experience. Quite honestly I don’t like losing the imaging time by shooting darks, because I typically use no fewer than 20 darks of a given exposure duration and that can be a substantial amount of time to collect a good set.
 
But the ignoramuses that typically populate the hobby would find such a protocol unacceptable and so I think FLI made a wise decision to trade off simplicity of use for the masses versus higher speed operation for people like me that appreciate it and don’t mind a little extra work
 
being an interline sensor, flat fielding is simple using broadband filters with the sky as an illumination source (preferred for a host of reasons): you can open the mechanical shutter and use the electronic global snap-shutter inherent in the interline architecture to great advantage: taking sub-100 millisecond exposures if necessary.
 
All in all I think this will be a very popular product if the pricing is set to a good level and what I have seen is that it will be priced above the KAI11002-based cameras and below those using the KAF16803.
 
The only thing I would like to see improved on this prototype camera is a little better cooling. The sensor in mine has a lot of vertical lines in the darks that are completely tamed by cooling. During the Dog Days of Summer when I took this image the ambient temperatures were running high during the day, and remaining high at night, so I could not quite reach –25C and could see that the sensor would benefit from a colder operating temperature than the –20C I elected to use. Now that we are getting into cooler weather this isn’t even a factor.
 
However using dithering and bad pixel repair algorithms I had no problems managing the defects at the warmer temperatures. I intend to publish a full characterization report when I can make the Photon Transfer analysis but at the moment it is mounted on my telescope and I am using it for imaging when I get the chance to image: I just returned this past Friday from three weeks in Asia... I will be headed back just after the elections it appears.

Butler, Ray

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Oct 15, 2012, 10:50:17 AM10/15/12
to Richard Crisp, astro...@seds.org

Hi Richard,

 

I find that if you compare the total charge-handling capacity of equal-area sensors, the well depth issue mostly goes away:

 

KAI-29050: 29 megapixels * 20.5k electrons/pixel  = 5.9 * 10^11 photoelectrons over the full 35mm sensor.

KAI-11000: 11.1 megapixels * 60k electrons/pixel  = 6.7 * 10^11 photoelectrons over the full 35mm sensor.

 

…pretty similar performance.

 

It seems that you have had some run-ins with other folks, when you say that “‘conventional wisdom’ in the astro world is usually nonsense”! – I wasn’t aware of those particular debates, but I think my answer above is clear: when you’re sampling the image into more numerous, smaller pixels, naturally each is required to store less flux. You would have to have severely undersampled PSF (star) cores for saturation to kick in earlier with the KAI-29050 than with the KAI-11000.

 

Feel free to quote me, if it helps!

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