Bring Youth Forward to National Level?

[Gord Hunter]

(First: Happy New Year!)

As a club leader have you ever seen a young person coming to your orienteering meets and said to yourself, “this kid/ person/ orienteer should be trying out for the national team!”

What do you do about it?

I have been thinking on that a lot lately. In Florida the two clubs have a large JROTC competitive orienteering program. To date, in six events we have seen over 1100 Florida cadets participating in at least one, some as many as five, events.

As you can imagine most do not have being an orienteering champion as their life goal any more than a desire to be a career military person.

But there are those gems- probably this year less than a dozen- that I would like to see how far they could go with the orienteering skill they are showing. They are often winning by large margins. They are typically asking their leaders to help them get to more events.

But what can we do to help them?

A few days ago, we saw a posting on Attack Point that people wanting to ‘apply’ to be a member of a national squad should submit their application by January 12^th. Okay, I looked that over. But the application asks for results from NREs. Heck, these students in Florida have not had a chance to get to NREs and the next one near (500 km) to them does not take place until after applications close.

Okay, I’ll get them links to OUSA website junior team information. Do you know that information dates back to 2020-21? How can we expect them to get enthused about information that was written when they were in elementary school? Who is in charge? No names no contact information!

Last time I got riled about this I was told there was something called a Youth Development Program. It sounds great but these students will want to know how they can be helped and if they can be helped… NOW. The YDP solution is to fill out a six page application where you don’t know the concluding information until you have filled out the previous pages. I know a very good young orienteer, a junior in high school. She happens to live in Georgia and her mother is also keen to see her move forward. They like the idea of a mentor but does the YDP have any available for pairing or might her application be met with disappointment?  Why are these OUSA programs so wrapped in secrecy? Anyone knowing anything about marketing/ selling a program would be telling the youth “Join the YDP to improve your competitive skills. We only have three mentors still available. Contact…”  “Learn mapping: two mentors available NOW!”

Don’t you agree? I’m anxious to know how you put your best kids forward.

Gord Hunter

Suncoast Orienteering

[Andrea Schneider]

Gord,

not sure how and where you found the information on the Junior national team, probably stumbled by googling over an old page cached somewhere.

The JNT merged with the Senior Team at the end of 2021, forming the current National Team (NT), with 3 squads: elite, performance and junior, all laid out in the Selection Criteria (version for 2025) for the National Team, published on the NT page on main OUSA website, Teams dropdown. These selection criteria have been virtually unchanged since 2022, and the ones for 2025 will thus allow cadets to prepare starting now for a similar application for 2026. 

In terms of the YDP, nothing is shrouded in secrecy, but only as much can be done at OUSA level as a function of the volunteers available to step in and help with the various tasks. The YDP is under the VP of Youth Development, so you may want to reach out to Dylan Poe directly, and ask him on how you could maybe assist or join YDP leadership to help manage and facilitate the opportunities for the Florida clubs and youths in particular, opportunities that are available through the YDP.

The Youth Mapping Program as well as the development of coaches are also under the VP of Youth Development. With this, too, you do not want to wait until the NT 2026 Application comes out. Last time you got riled about this was the NT 2024 application....

Andrea Schneider

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[Andrea Schneider]

...and beware the Google AI summary for Orienteering OUSA Junior National orienteering, has so many factually wrong info. At least they tell you to visit Orienteering USA's website.

Andrea

[RWorner LKohn]

Gord,

Maybe the best you can do at this point is to select an All Star group based on Florida results and then try to get them to Georgia and Texas. Maybe the YDP could provide some financial support. Students that do well at these competitions could then be identified and recruited to do some sort of longer trip together to Europe, West Point or another major summer event in North America.  At some point you will likely need to recruit a couple of group leaders who can travel with the group and do some coaching as well. This could be a current Senior Team member or an orienteering parent or two. The YDP may have some structure or ideas to support this type of effort.

Rick Worner

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[Gord Hunter]

Thanks Rick,

Good advice but be sure I'm not so worried about what Suncoast (and Florida) should do for this year. We have a strategy unfolding and thanks to the massive turnouts we get at our JROTC events (upwards of 500 entries) we have some money to throw back their way.

But the problem we have is having that lag year between when the student shows the promise and when they can realistically get the results to get into the OUSA fold. Most, by the time they get to the Advanced level in our competitions they are Juniors or Seniors in high school. Then they are gone.

I hope this year we'll find a way to get the promising ones to the San Jose selection races then the Junior Nationals and that will be great experiences for them. 

But I was trying to ferret out whether other clubs have other ways of moving their promising kids forward.

You know Emily Kemp as well as I do. She is the one North American in history that has earned a medal at JWOC and a diploma at WOC. For her to get to the world elite level she had to move to France and then Finland to train with the best and train very hard. But before that happened her club (Yay Ottawa!) and her country supported her pretty generously on the way up. They recognized and encouraged her talent at a very young age.  Across the country there are probably lots of 15-16 year olds that could benefit royally from a pull upwards. Not a 'show us what you can do at (unavailable) NREs and we'll look at you'.

But you know what else clubs have to do to bring their best forward is to increase the number of team competitions - relays and 'best three' times added, etc. It's human nature. We find our level and we train for it. "I'm never going to beat Joe X so why beat myself up trying to get 10 minutes better?" But if the orienteer gets thinking "if each of us can improve our time by 10 minutes that's 30 minutes for the team. We can do that."  Then they have a goal and a new goal and another.

That training for a better team time pays off again in better times and placings for the individuals. We see that in our JROTC competitions in Florida. The students are not running for themselves, they are running to be one of their team's best three and to get their team in position for a trophy. (All our JROTC events have a full range of medals and trophies).

If we want to produce orienteers who compete better on the world stage we should give them opportunities to compete more on the home stage.

Don't believe me? Look how many of us old farts will criss-cross the country for the chance to earn ranking points. Look how they turn their backs on events that don't have ranking status. For the students they'll look for rewards that are more than once/ year.

Thanks Rick,

[Ruth Bromer]

There is another issue for juniors.  The Interscholastic top level is Brown for female and Green for Male, but the courses for the team are Green for female and Red for Brown. Juniors who are trying out for the team really can't compete for the High School level competitions.  We are losing the best of the Varsity level. Just look at the registrants for the Georgia meet.

Ruth Bromer

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/orienteeringusa.org/d/msgid/clubnet/CAGTzKr6hWfLDFRUQwZquPJymddLKPPsDpCXqFLhWmi2xrzXTHQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Tori Campbell]

Gord,

  Thanks for asking! You should have seen the information listed below. It is from the header of the YDP application because we were asked to minimize the amount of information on the OUSA website. Note that the information on the form includes contact information for further information. If you tried that and it didn't work, please let Dylan Poe (VP Youth) or me know and we'll troubleshoot.  

  To clarify, the youth application is a Google Form with short answers and check boxes, not a 6-page essay. It was designed to be much quicker than previous youth program applications. You can see a preview in the attached pdf. Note that some sections will not appear for all applicants, as they are based on responses to previous questions.

-Tori

Tori Campbell

First Vice President

Orienteering USA

Welcome to the OUSA Youth Development Program!  The purpose of this program is to connect you with peers, experts, mentors, coaches, or whoever is out there in the greater OUSA community that can help you better enjoy our sport and work towards reaching your goals.

Those goals can be whatever you want to achieve. Maybe there's no club near you, and you're looking for a way to connect with other orienteers. Perhaps you're aiming for the national team, or hoping to become a sports journalist some day. Or you want to put on an amazing orienteering event, or design courses for major competition. Maybe you're becoming an orienteering coach, yourself, or starting your own club as you head off to college. Or you might enjoy mapping and want someone to reach out to for advice.  We want to support all this, and more.

There's no cost to join, but you do need to be an OUSA member (https://orienteeringusa.org/membership/).

Please tell us as much about yourself and your interests as you can so we can reach out across the community and connect you to other people and OUSA resources that will support you in doing what you love to do in orienteering. In doing so, we will share your responses to this form.

We're asking for your email first so we can send you a copy of your application when you're done, and so you can go back in and edit if you forgot something. You will further be receiving a "Welcome" e-mail from a member of the YDP leadership, with the Subject line starting with [YDP Committee]; you may want to check your Spam folder for such e-mail if it has been a while and you have not heard back regarding your YDP Application.

If not yet ready to apply or have questions that are not addressed in above introductory portion for the YDP, please send an e-mail to the YDP Leadership"

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/orienteeringusa.org/d/msgid/clubnet/477576099.4557648.1735771961434%40mail.yahoo.com.

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[Andrea Schneider]

The fact that the top classes for Junior Nationals for HS students is not the same as the classes for the Team Trials for JWOC as well as for the ranking or other comparisons for selection of athletes into the Junior Squad of the National Team, every effort has been made within in past years, first by JTESC and now by the National Team ESC to not use the Junior Nationals as the Team Trials for JWOC or WUOC, precisely so as to avoid juniors having to make the difficult decision between allegiance to their school and and their HS/college team, or competing for a spot on the US team competing internationally at a level higher than that required for HS or college varsity.

There remains the issue that athletes would not be able to earn NRE points at Junior Nationals for that higher level, however, that would still give all a good comparison how they fare against other athletes who in addition to Junior Nationals also compete at other NRE events at that higher ranking level as needed to show readiness for the M/F-20 competition.

Andrea Schneider

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/orienteeringusa.org/d/msgid/clubnet/CADo8mvfzA6%2BBRWcq9oD2Nm84Nx08jmh8FoBmsJze2OQAkPousQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Ruth Bromer]

Andrea,

Yes, they can run for the Junior Nationals, but those who can't get to enough National events have to give up competing for Junior Nationals or they won't be able to prove that they are good enough for the Junior Team. And if the top competitors give up the Junior Nationals, isn't that watering it down? Hopefully, the CSI (Class Structure Investigation) Task Force can figure out a better solution.

Right now for the Georgia meet, there's one person running F-18 rather than ISVF (same course) and at least one High school senior running F-20. All the rest are running ISVF. We don't have much consistency. 

Ruth

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/orienteeringusa.org/d/msgid/clubnet/CADQujwk4LMtq517Vv9ZF5sVzYtQzBmgM8HKJKRdQHunGx8UiRg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Andrea Schneider]

Hi Ruth,

for the time being, can't the person running F-18 at GNC be asked to run ISVF if they're on the same course, or at least be advised about it?

In terms of the HS senior running F-20, one would have to ask them why they chose to do that. And if it is because they are intending to boost their ranking or compete against others in the F-20 category who are out of HS, maybe because they can't go to the Team Trials and want to petition, that is their choice to make. This has, though, been the case for many years. I remember my HS sons having to choose between M-20 or HSV when selection was still by ranking rather than the combination of team trials and petitioning.

I am, though, not sure what this sentence means "...they can run for the Junior Nationals, but those who can't get to enough National events have to give up competing for Junior Nationals or they won't be able to prove that they are good enough for the Junior Team..."

whether by "Junior Team" you mean the "JWOC team" or the "Junior Squad of the National Team".

For the JWOC team they would try out at the Team Trials, not the Junior Nationals (formerly Interscholastics), in the M/F-20 category (the competition level and age class as determined by other nations, too), or else petition, with as much supporting material as to their abilities as possible (see JWOC 2025 Selection Criteria).

For the Junior Squad of the National Team there is definitely a way to make the National Team's Junior Squad with their HS Varsity results (M/F-18) at the Junior Nationals. From the 2025 National Team Selection Criteria (see 5d: Athletes who exclusively or almost exclusively ran M/F18 who had outstanding results). 

In any case, I hope this helps a bit the young athletes to sort and discuss with the adults in their lives what the right choices are for what they, the athletes, want their development and future in orienteering to be.

Andrea Schneider

[Tori Campbell]

And I stand corrected, Gord - Andrea mentioned she just added the contact info at the bottom of the intro notes based on your feedback. So, thank you for that! 

It's interesting to me that you have found it so hard to find information. It's helpful that you described what drew your attention, instead. I wonder if we need a Youth Development tag for announcements / news on the OUSA website? 

A few things we've posted:

• Initial announcement - website
• 2023 Summer Trip - website
• YDP basic info - website, top of Youth Development page
• Sep 2024 recording of O-Forum on YDP - Clubnet. This forum explains YDP's origins in the Orienteering Development Model and the connection between YDP and the National team. For those who prefer the slides, my script is in the notes, but the recording is a better way to hear the youth talk about their experiences.
• Various posts on the National Team blog, courtesy of NT liaison Bridget Hall reaching out to all YDP members at these events for input
•  And coming soon - Jan 14th O-Forum on how YDP (including National Team) youth and a few young-at-heart-if-not-always-in-age-supporters have been building coaching skills, capacity, and community through the hybrid version of the OUSA Level 1 Coaching Certification  

Other than the OUSA website and O-Forum(s), we get the word out about YDP through:

• occasional items requested to publish on "all channels" that may not make the threshold for the OUSA website, but appear on social media
• requests to event directors to include youth meet-up / post-even course review information in NRE event notes or emails
• word-of mouth: our youth invite others, whether friends they brought along, someone who ran their course, or even someone they teamed up with for an informal mass start event or a relay
• any opportunity to bring up YDP on attackpoint! ;-)

-Tori Campbell

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[Dylan Poe]

Thanks for getting those links out again, Tori.

Good conversations going on now, and I'll add a few higher level thoughts here.

National team juniors, and courses: If there was a simple solution for the discrepancy in courses for juniors, it would already have been solved. Like (I think Ruth) said, maybe the committee on course/class structure can find a good solution. But I wouldn't count on that, as we've discussed here, it's a tricky situation. The National Team ESC plans around this as well as it can. Does it put some juniors in a tight spot having to choose between their school and their National Team aspirations? Yes. Our best juniors range from 15 to 20 years old. and I think if the US had a deeper field of juniors, we would see more juniors running their age class (many juniors who qualify for M/F-16 run M/F-18 or 20 because there's no competition in their age class, or that class is too easy technically). We push our juniors up classes very quickly, most of the time for good reason. As far as the National Team application, there should be some level of difficulty. This is a National Team (even if its for juniors), and evidence of strong results in National level events I believe is necessary. Does that put some juniors at a disadvantage? Again, yes. I think it's clear when I look at the event calendar which geographic areas will have a harder time getting to NREs. On the other hand, other programs, like YDP, should not be difficult at all to join. I think we do our best to get information out there, and make it appealing to join, but as we've made changes in our Team structure, it seems old information is still able to be found. 

Wanting help now: Having mentors ready to help "now" would be an awesome thing. That is something the Youth programs have been working towards, starting with Tori. We're just now getting current/former National Team members involved with setting up trainings/socials/course reviews regionally. But, of course if there's not a former national team member in the area, then that doesn't help much, and remote mentoring just has a lot of barriers for it to work well, in my opinion. It can be effective if both sides are committed to making it work. Like everything else in our sport, we can only do what the time and resources of our volunteers allow. And for me personally, that time is decreasing. This idea is something that will have to grow naturally, (with a few key volunteers pushing the right people). I've thought about publishing a list of willing mentors, so people wanting to directly reach out to some one more experienced could do so. But I think that's a bit unfair for the mentors, who will be mostly unpaid, with families and school/careers to pursue. I'm kind of waiting to get a deeper pool to do something like that, but I agree, it should be easier to find someone willing to mentor.

YDP/Coaching: This relates back to wanting help now. Although technically separate programs, these have been closely linked. Our YDP leadership has done an awesome job in getting our older YDP members to start the coaching classes. I knew a lot about orienteering before doing those classes, but having those discussions with my orienteering peers showed me several things I hadn't considered before. And now, I know people to reach out to if I run into a situation where I'd like advice. And I believe each club should have at least a person with a Level 1 Coaching Certification. Not only for the knowledge, but the connections and experience. And the connections is one of the main things about YDP that is so great. Not only at events, where we have more and more current /former National Team members organizing trainings, socials, and online course reviews after events, but having a group to reach out to for questions and advice. And the more YDP grows, the more it can help.

I do think pushing juniors to National events and potentially the junior team has to come from the club. That is their local support system, and where they're likely to first go with questions. We should be providing resources for individuals and clubs to use at a national level, which I showed above, we're working on. Having a junior coordinator seems to work well, if a club can find one. And sometimes, mentors and junior coordinators will have to be okay with the fact that not every promising junior, and probably not even a high percentage, will have the motivation to be on the National Team. But making sure the juniors know what opportunities are out there is the first (or maybe the second) step.

This was longer than I intended for it to be, so hopefully this provides some context to where our youth programs are at, and what we're working towards. 

Dylan 

VP Youth

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/orienteeringusa.org/d/msgid/clubnet/CADhvoVOPDmjZpxNgnM3RhvE1wV8b4ZSXdH4pf3P-p9BV%3Da6Qog%40mail.gmail.com.

[Joseph Huberman]

One possible way to address the regional lack of NREs could be to include club events in the evaluation. The difference between a well designed local expert course on a good map and a course at an NRE is the number of competitors. Good times on a challenging local course could be evaluated on Livelox and considered as part of the Junior's application. 

Joseph Huberman
Raleigh NC
919-610-1788

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/orienteeringusa.org/d/msgid/clubnet/CAHcOtWq7vpb8mBHuAU5AdkVMFYxYNn81xMJO9G5xuZcJUVk5OQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Matt Craig]

It seems like the discussion has veered away from the real problem occupying Gord’s mind; helping high achievers get more experience and exposure. 

Yes, getting them into the YDP is an important first step. Being able to compare themselves on like courses to peers is important. 

A big problem for North American orienteering is distance. Since promising young orienteers are spread out around the continent, national events require a lot of travel. And then let’s say they do make the national team, outside of NAOC they’re going to have to travel to Europe to compete for the team.

For those who had the chance to travel, we know the importance of getting experience with vastly different terrain as well as competing with and hanging out in person with like-minded peers among other things.

How do you convince kids and parents to travel to an NRE?

What’s the threshold of promising kids for your club to host an NRE?

Can the task be institutionalized instead of relying on an individual offering their long weekend to drive a vanful of kids two states away?

Matt

On Jan 3, 2025, at 22:47, Tori Campbell <Victoria...@orienteeringusa.org> wrote:



To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/orienteeringusa.org/d/msgid/clubnet/CADhvoVOPDmjZpxNgnM3RhvE1wV8b4ZSXdH4pf3P-p9BV%3Da6Qog%40mail.gmail.com.

[Clare Durand]

I'll try to avoid duplicating the responses already given by those involved heavily in the national junior program and go back to Gord's original question: What do you do about it?

LAOC started a club Junior Team two years ago. That's still pretty new, so hard to say much about its success. So far no one from that team has bumped up to the National Team, but they are mostly still on the young side for that. How does our youth team work? 

First we needed a few things

(1) A passionate, enthusiastic adult to lead the program. In our case, a parent and club board member who was already doing some travel to outside events. Additionally, we had an older long-term member with competitive experience willing to lead coaching and training sessions.

(2) Youth to recruit to the team. As a club that runs a youth league and has a relationship with at least a few NJROTC schools, we had youth who showed promise but were not already being supported by an orienteering family. They only participated when their unit did. When recruiting you should look for youth who:

  (a) Are passionate and enthusiastic about orienteering, not necessarily the very top performers. It's easier to convince the enthusiastic youth to do what's necessary to improve than to help a fast runner who doesn't really care.

  (b) Have parental support. Just like in any sport, if you're going to join the traveling club team, it's going to take financial and logistical support from the family. Many of the youth who have joined our team are the ones whose parents were chaperoning their NJROTC team at events.

Then you make a deal. In our case the terms are:

Youth team members get:

• a free LAOC uniform shirt
• an annual travel reimbursement stipend to assist in paying expenses to travel to NREs. It's not huge, but it helps and shows the club's commitment to the youth. It helps with buy-in from parents that the club is helping financially.
• Special coaching and training opportunities designed just for them. Some of these are in person training days, some are online zoom discussions.
• Coordination of schedules and logistics for travel to important or nearby NRE events.

Youth Team members are expected to:

• Join the local youth league and attend a high proportion of those events
• Attend at least 4 NREs to achieve a national ranking
• Join the OUSA YDP program
• Participate in the local training opportunities we provide

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/orienteeringusa.org/d/msgid/clubnet/5AC51B7F-DE3F-4F1B-A2E0-D44DBB454072%40gmail.com.

[Clare Durand]

On another note, one thing that's been hinted at that I want to focus on a little more is the poor retention into the M/F-20 age class. If all of the promising 18 year olds kept going then M/F-20 would be so saturated with talent that the idea of a HS student making the team would be exceptional and not the norm. I think right now we may actually lose some kids by giving them the impression they should be making the team at 18. When they don't, they get discouraged and don't continue training into college. Of course, there are additional logistical issues if the juniors move away from the local club. But some will stick around. How do we keep them coming, either locally or wherever they move to? It's an old question that we haven't solved.

Clare

[Peter Goodwin]

The problem with keeping the college students in orienteering is that it is often hard to get to events, there are lots of other things to do in college, and there isn't a group of your friends going off to the meets together. These three things make it difficult. 

If you are in a new place, you have to find events, find a way to get to the event and then make the time to do it. Many kids also find lots of new things to do and, given what I just wrote, orienteering takes a back seat. In high school, you are doing a lot of orienteering as a group. You all get in a car and go to the local meet. You may find that at your new school, you know no one who orienteers in the entire school. Where does that leave you.

My son, John, had that issue when he went to college. From that point, he was in the DC area and went to a meet or two and didn't know people, people didn't really interact with him, and he stopped going. This is after he went to 3 JWOCs. 

Solving this problem will not be easy.

Peter Goodwin

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From: clu...@orienteeringusa.org <clu...@orienteeringusa.org> on behalf of Clare Durand <clare...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2025 4:00 PM
To: Matt Craig <matt.c...@gmail.com>
Cc: Tori Campbell <Victoria...@orienteeringusa.org>; Hunter Gord <gor...@rogers.com>; ClubNet <clu...@orienteeringusa.org>
Subject: Re: [OUSA-ClubNet] Bring Youth Forward to National Level?

 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/orienteeringusa.org/d/msgid/clubnet/CAJrBXTqsVTH%2BMtDbcDSV_uPgabHX5aNSxcGz5P4dUNAML_t%3Ddw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Andrea Schneider]

Any young OUSA member who joins the YDP or was added because National Team athlete under 25, or is in YDP as a coach or mentor, or the parents of minors, all get to stay until they chose to leave. They continue to get all type of networking info, can reach out to peers, etc., can become mentors themselves. YDP leadership does not actively remove anyone. OUSA membership, however, is a requirement to be part of OUSA, but clubs could support athletes who may not have the funds for at least a junior or student membership.

Andrea

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/orienteeringusa.org/d/msgid/clubnet/SJ0PR02MB8862972DBC04F53E14E70C20AE162%40SJ0PR02MB8862.namprd02.prod.outlook.com.

[RWorner LKohn]

Clare,

Thanks for sharing.  This seems like a great model for OUSA clubs. 

Rick Worner

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/orienteeringusa.org/d/msgid/clubnet/CAJrBXTpMpbMkxH%2BononPcexOrtFE3D9SoyfSMsRkW6fO-6EF_w%40mail.gmail.com.

[Andrea Schneider]

Other than Dylan and Lily, as current young OUSA board members, I am wondering how many other under 25 year olds, or even under 30 are following these Clubnet discussions.And are there under 25s who would chime into these discussions if they knew about them.

Andrea

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/orienteeringusa.org/d/msgid/clubnet/CAGTzKr69UOBqo40m-prgsfgZCHJbRfvnH4wZsEwy2y%3D8wNEjtw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Gord Hunter]

Here I go away for a three-day mapping binge. (Wait until you all have a chance to see this area!) I come home to some really good thoughts and examples of where we (wearing my OUSA membership) could go.

Then while I was out there walking between root stocks and ginormous trees I had additional thoughts. Not to dismiss anything that has been submitted but to add fuel to the embers.

Why do we lose so many promising athletes as they graduate high school and do not leap forward to the National Junior Squad?

When they graduate high school at age 18 they lose their team support and their instructors who have pulled them along. In very few places does anyone from the clubs pull them forward. (Exceptions OCIN, Cascade and LAOC and perhaps Grizz, but certainly FLO and SOAR have been guilty of letting them drift. They are probably just coming in their prime for junior team year but away they go to the world of football games and frat parties. (Well that was my college life) 

• 1)  I had been reading about The annual European Youth Orienteering Championships. I had never heard of it before 2019-20 when a former medallist in the event from Czechia came to Bradenton on a student exchange.  The event has M and W -16 and -18 classes in Long Relay and Sprint. 
• I thought could we fashion a NAYOC based on the European model but with probably state/ provincial or regional instead of national teams. 16/ 18 fits perfectly with the students Florida has competing by the thousands in our high school events. Does this have any interest? Florida would put effort into getting and outfitting a team there. 
• The event being youth oriented could likely attract a title sponsor. 
• Google the European Youth Orienteering Championships and see what an attractive event that is. Great way to create a manageable step for our high schoolers to the national teams.
• 
  
• 2) This idea came first and the inspiration comes from three sources. One and two are cadets who came through our JROTC program, graduated and went on to university. They offered to put on events at their university, line up the permissions and hopefully raise some money for their cadet funds. One of the events happened as SOAR and the Univ of Florida AROTC partnered on a successful event. Among the success measures is that the cadets and the Army ROTC staff want to repeat the event next year. The third inspiration is last year's OUSA junior nats and the likes of Lilly Addicot, and I think some others, hog tying a few friends, forming teams and representing their university at the 'Intercollegiate' part of the Junior Nats. 
• So here I go down another path planning the first Florida College and University Orienteering Championships where hopefully we will raise some funds to help the winners go to the OUSA Intercollegiate Nats. 

What do you say? Would any club be interested in picking up this and adding a a Youth Orienteering Championships to their existing event? Perhaps it could be held every second year off the NAOC? Why not in the NAOC? Because the Youth Championships in Europe stress not only individual but also team results and for most participants the NAOC is woefully lacking in a chance to participate as part of a team.

Food for thought, I hope

Gord Hunter 

On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 06:10:06 p.m. EST, Andrea Schneider <andrea.s...@orienteeringusa.org> wrote:

Other than Dylan and Lily, as current young OUSA board members, I am wondering how many other under 25 year olds, or even under 30 are following these Clubnet discussions.And are there under 25s who would chime into these discussions if they knew about them.

Andrea

On Sat, Jan 4, 2025, 16:45 RWorner LKohn <worne...@gmail.com> wrote:

Clare,

Thanks for sharing.  This seems like a great model for OUSA clubs. 

Rick Worner

On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 3:54 PM Clare Durand <clare...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'll try to avoid duplicating the responses already given by those involved heavily in the national junior program and go back to Gord's original question: What do you do about it?

LAOC started a club Junior Team two years ago. That's still pretty new, so hard to say much about its success. So far no one from that team has bumped up to the National Team, but they are mostly still on the young side for that. How does our youth team work? 

First we needed a few things

(1) A passionate, enthusiastic adult to lead the program. In our case, a parent and club board member who was already doing some travel to outside events. Additionally, we had an older long-term member with competitive experience willing to lead coaching and training sessions.

(2) Youth to recruit to the team. As a club that runs a youth league and has a relationship with at least a few NJROTC schools, we had youth who showed promise but were not already being supported by an orienteering family. They only prticipated when their unit did. When recruiting you should look for youth who:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/orienteeringusa.org/d/msgid/clubnet/CADQujw%3Dbjbc3CczaYYyUZ8jn334BkypHNuEoq%2BHJF0Pnh48Y2g%40mail.gmail.com.

[Adalia]

Hi all! I'm a youth with Backwoods Orienteering Club (BOK). Before sharing my thoughts, I will caveat that I have always orienteered individually, so have had less restrictions getting to practices and NREs.

This discussion began with a question about YDP, so I'll add my thoughts on that first. Most importantly, unlike a sport like football, orienteering doesn't have the popularity to have coaches who only coach. While YDP cannot to have a coach who helps every athlete in person at every practice, the program has a Google Group, which includes contacts for several coaches who are happy to answer emails or schedule Google Meets to talk about a practice, preparing for a new terrain type or more. This may not look the same as a coach for a soccer or cross country team, but they are very knowledgeable and open to helping out if youth reach out.

This next paragraph may sound like an advertisement for the program, so I'll leave it to the reader to choose if it is worthwhile :) I have found the YDP to fairly well-publicized through Attackpoint, the blog run by Bridget, Tori and Dylan at NREs, and a recent OUSA forum. For me, it has been a great resource. When members are able to go to NREs, the YDP leaders often organize get-togethers to meet in person, which is a great way to put faces to names and make friends with other youth. After almost every NRE, they've organized a course review Google Meet, where members can join to discuss whether they went to NRE or not. The program has also been very encouraging for youth wanting to participate in the Youth Mapping Program (which I know several people are doing/have done) and the coaching program (which I am doing). Aside from these named programs, the group is a great resource to ask questions of coaches.

In terms of encouraging strong orienteers in JROTC and high school clubs to go to more NREs or tryout for JWOC, I understand the difficulties. It is hard to offer a solution to this because OUSA doesn't control the school schedules of its youth, nor can it control the spread of the United States. Furthermore, while I understand the frustration in needing to attend NREs to have a chance at JWOC, I also think it is important to have practice at larger meets before attending an international competition, so I don't see that going away any time soon. YDP has funding for the Young Leaders' Academy that takes place during 5-Days Italy and the European Youth Orienteering Championships. Both of these are opportunities to travel, orienteer and compete internationally run through YDP without the same strenuous application process as JWOC. This could be an opportunity for high performing students to push themselves over the summer when scheduling is less restricted. I also wouldn't forget the value of encouraging words from older athletes in a club. Words of recognition from someone you look up to can be a powerful method of support. While it may sound mundane, forming relationships with the experienced orienteers in my club has really encouraged me to want to carry on with orienteering into college and further. 

Finally, as I am a high school senior, who will be heading to college soon, I also have some thoughts to add to the discussion of retaining youth athletes once they leave high school. From brief anecdotes in previous emails, it seems like the biggest problem is college students having access to transportation and feeling welcome at events. Here, I do have a possible solution. Over last semester there was an exchange student at a local university who wanted to continue orienteering in Raleigh, where BOK is located. He reached out on our club email and several members offered him rides to events. This seems like something simple to implement if club members are open to bringing along an additional orienteer, which I am hopeful will be an option for me next year. Aside from the welcoming atmosphere, I have found the map of club location on the OUSA website helpful in determining opportunities to orienteer in college, which is something that could be utilized to retain M/F-20s. Kind of related, but off-topic...I wonder if we could have an OUSA forum (or set of forums) where members of clubs across the country can introduce their club and basic logistics of being a member, signing up for events, etc. As a last thought on this, travel to NREs for college students could be a challenge when personal funds are lower, which could be something keeping them from NREs.

Adalia

--

Adalia Schafrath-Craig

schafra...@gmail.com

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/orienteeringusa.org/d/msgid/clubnet/CADQujw%3Dbjbc3CczaYYyUZ8jn334BkypHNuEoq%2BHJF0Pnh48Y2g%40mail.gmail.com.

[RWorner LKohn]

The YDP program seems like a very inclusive and welcoming program. Especially good for kids who don't live near a major club. After many years of working with juniors at training camps and on overseas trips without any great success it seems to me that initial youth development would be best done at the local club like it is done in other sports like swimming and gymnastics. Promising swimmers and gymnasts are developed locally before they move on to higher levels and onto teams of some sort. Over the years few clubs have been able to put together coaching programs for their junior members. A few individuals such as Boris with Grizzly have recruited in their youth communities and have run training programs to prepare them for NRE level competition.  It seems like it would take a number of similar efforts to develop a large enough base to produce elite level orienteers.

Much of it often seems to come back to the fact that the overall numbers in NA orienteering are so low that clubs don't feel the need to develop their own junior programs. I think that programs like YDP are worthwhile to develop a lifelong interest in orienteering, but it will be very difficult to find and develop competitive orienteers without the help of the local clubs. Most of our clubs are small and find it a challenge to maintain a robust local schedule which is the key to building our numbers.

Rick Worner

ROC

On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 1:29 PM Tori Campbell <Victoria...@orienteeringusa.org> wrote: