Proposal to switch communication channels

[Lars Kiesow]

Hi everyone,
at the Opencast DACH conference we had a session about communication
channels used by the community. It was not the first time that someone
complained about Google Groups, but this time we actually ended up with
a proposal:

We would like to propose to discontinue the Google Groups mailing
lists in favor of using GitHub Discussions as a modern forum with
good usability. Matrix will stay as a platform for chatting and quick
communications.


This should give us both a place for quick chats with partly persisted
content and a forum where you can raise questions, mark helpful answers
and search this as a knowledge repository later. The Google Groups
lists would stay in a read only mode.

The background is that the lists are used far less frequently that a
couple of years ago and several core members stated that they are
basically ignoring the lists entirely. We talked about different
systems to use:

- Google Groups
- Matrix
- Discourse
- GitHub Discussions
- Discord
- Slack

The group felt that Matrix is quite popular and we don't want to touch
it. The only complaint was that it is not great as knowledge base,
since it is hard to search in.

GitHub Discussions was the system most popular for replacing Google
Groups with. This also means one less system for the project since we
already host the code on GitHub.

We also did a quick show of hands with all conference members later.
They very clearly showed the same opinion of the smaller group.

Obviously, not everyone was at the meeting. Therefor, I'd like to bring
the question up here as well and ask you all to state your opinion. Do
you agree with the suggestion? Do you have stron arguments against it?
Please let us know.

All the best,
Lars

[Matthias Neugebauer]

+ 1

– Matthias

---

shio solutions GmbH
Hafenweg 11a
48155 Münster
Germany

Mail: mtn...@shio.solutions
Fon: +49 251 97007987
Website: https://shio.solutions

Geschäftsführer: Matthias Neugebauer
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Münster HRB 21404
Sitz: Münster

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to users+un...@opencast.org.
>

[Christoph Reifers]

+1

Hi everyone,
at the Opencast DACH conference we had a session about communication
channels used by the community. It was not the first time that someone
complained about Google Groups, but this time we actually ended up with
a proposal:

  We would like to propose to discontinue the Google Groups mailing
  lists in favor of using GitHub Discussions as a modern forum with
  good usability. Matrix will stay as a platform for chatting and quick
  communications.


This should give us both a place for quick chats with partly persisted
content and a forum where you can raise questions, mark helpful answers
and search this as a knowledge repository later. The Google Groups
lists would stay in a read only mode.

The background is that the lists are used far less frequently that a
couple of years ago and several core members stated that they are
basically ignoring the lists entirely. We talked about different
systems to use:

- Google Groups
- Matrix
- Discourse
- GitHub Discussions
- Discord
- Slack

The group felt that Matrix is quite popular and we don't want to touch
it. The only complaint was that it is not great as knowledge base,
since it is hard to search in.

GitHub Discussions was the system most popular for replacing Google
Groups with. This also means one less system for the project since we
already host the code on GitHub.

We also did a quick show of hands with all conference members later.
They very clearly showed the same opinion of the smaller group.

Obviously, not everyone was at the meeting. Therefor, I'd like to bring
the question up here as well and ask you all to state your opinion. Do
you agree with the suggestion? Do you have stron arguments against it?
Please let us know.

All the best,
Lars

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to users+un...@opencast.org.

-- 
Christoph Reifers
Media Technology Services
Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK)
Universität zu Köln
Weyertal 121
D - 50931 Köln

[Katrin Ihler]

+1

Just a quick question: Would the announcements list stay in some form? Because stuff like 'SysAdmin meeting isn't happening today' probably doesn't really belong in a forum-like discussion thing, but rather on our blog with the possibility of getting notified in time.

Katrin

Opencast-DevOps Teamlead
elan e.V.
Karlstr. 23
D-26123 Oldeburg

elan-ev.de

[Daniel Ziegenberg]

+1

[Schulte Olaf Andreas (ID)]

Rather than objecting, I would like to raise my concerns along the lines of Katrin’s question: What’s the future channel for announcements to the community, raising awareness for upcoming events like the “Save the date” I sent last night or a request to participate in a crowd funding? While these are not very frequent, the board and others need a channel for this. And once you move to other channels for the main communication (which I think is reasonable), remaining mailing lists will get even less attention. I’m fine with posting this via https://opencast.org/blog/, but only if it doesn’t end up in a channel people don’t pay attention to.

 

O

[Katrin Ihler]

As a side note, maybe we could also have our blog posts (or rather the header with a link) appear in the matrix chat via a bot when something new is posted? I could see that being useful.

Katrin

Opencast-DevOps Teamlead
elan e.V.
Karlstr. 23
D-26123 Oldeburg

elan-ev.de

[Matthias Neugebauer]

Olaf has some very valid points. My understanding of the proposal was that it only affects the users, anwender and dev lists. Although, reading it again seems to include every channel (i.e. announcements, lms and oat as well?).

I don’t think putting announcements in GitHub Discussions is a good idea. IMO the current setup can stay the same, i.e. announcements in the Opencast blog will be pushed to the announcement list automatically. Not sure if it’s worth to pay for only that use, though. I also like the idea from Katrin to push posts to Matrix. And for old people we still have RSS…

– Matthias

---

shio solutions GmbH
Hafenweg 11a
48155 Münster
Germany

Mail: mtn...@shio.solutions
Fon: +49 251 97007987
Website: https://shio.solutions

Geschäftsführer: Matthias Neugebauer
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Münster HRB 21404
Sitz: Münster

[Lars Kiesow]

Integrating that in Matrix should be really easy. We actually had that
in the past until matrix.org discontinued the RSS integration. I never
fixed that since no one complained. But we've already automated sending
the posts to the mailing lists. Also sending a message to Matrix is
easy to put into that automation as well.
–Lars

> > via https://opencast.org/blog/, but only if it doesn’t end up in a channel people don’t pay attention to. O Von: us...@opencast.org <use
> > r...@opencast.org> Im Auftrag von Katrin Ihler Gesendet: Montag, 30.

[Schulte Olaf Andreas (ID)]

Lars, for my understanding: Integrating "that" in Matrix refers to the announcements list?

O

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: us...@opencast.org <us...@opencast.org> Im Auftrag von Lars Kiesow
Gesendet: Dienstag, 1. Oktober 2024 21:23

[Lars Kiesow]

Yes, exactly. I meant that we could automatically post the announcements
posted on opencast.org on Matrix in the same way as we currently send
them to the announ...@opencast.org list.

It's also not an either or. We can run both integrations in parallel.
–Lars


On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 15:15:23 +0000

[Greg Logan]

Would it be helpful to copy the announcements to GHD as well, as a side channel?  I'm unsure how much work this would be, so this could easily be not worth it.  Regardless, I completely agree that keeping the announcement list active should be done.

FWIW, I don't believe we have RSS enabled on the website, and I don't see an obvious way to do so.

Overall this has a reluctant +1 from me.  I prefer email, but then every change breaks someone's workflow[1]

G

1: https://xkcd.com/1172/

[Schulte Olaf Andreas (ID)]

Just to clarify: I’m not calling for the announcement list to survive. I’m asking for a visible channel to make announcements and I’m flexible as to its form. And given other lists seem doomed, the announcement list will not receive the attention it should get as an announcement list.

 

O

[andi...@googlemail.com]

Regarding the aspect of announcements I am with Greg and prefer email. Google Groups allow me to subscribe and get a digest delivered into my inbox. Following the Matrix conversations would be too much for me and actively hunting for announcements on websites won't work either. Maybe a newsletter approach comparable to that from the Media and Learning Association or Apereo would be a viable option?

Best, Andreas

[Lars Kiesow]

Hi everyone,
we decided that we want to switch and partly, we already started. But as
usual, someone still needs to do the work ;-)
If no one objects, I can do that.

Based on the feedback, my plan would be:

- Switch over to GitHub Discussions after Christmas,
before the end of the year
- Keep the announcements list as is
- Add a Matrix channel to automatically link announcements
- See if we can post announcements to GitHub Discussions (no promises)
- Turn users and dev lists read-only

I'm not touching any of the other lists, unless anyone asks me to.

I hope this is reasonable?

All the best,
Lars

On 2024-10-04 4:42 PM, 'andi...@googlemail.com' via Opencast Users wrote:
> Regarding the aspect of announcements I am with Greg and prefer email.
> Google Groups allow me to subscribe and get a digest delivered into my
> inbox. Following the Matrix conversations would be too much for me and
> actively hunting for announcements on websites won't work either. Maybe
> a newsletter approach comparable to that from the Media and Learning
> Association or Apereo would be a viable option?
>
> Best, Andreas
>
> On Wednesday 2 October 2024 at 22:56:39 UTC+2 schulte.e...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Just to clarify: I’m not calling for the announcement list to
> survive. I’m asking for a visible channel to make announcements and
> I’m flexible as to its form. And given other lists seem doomed, the
> announcement list will not receive the attention it should get as an

> announcement list.____
>
> __ __
>
> O____
>
> __ __
>
> *Von:*us...@opencast.org <us...@opencast.org> *Im Auftrag von *Greg
> Logan
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 2. Oktober 2024 19:56
> *An:* us...@opencast.org
> *Betreff:* Re: [OC Users] Proposal to switch communication channels____
>
> __ __

>
> Would it be helpful to copy the announcements to GHD as well, as a
> side channel?  I'm unsure how much work this would be, so this could
> easily be not worth it.  Regardless, I completely agree that keeping

> the announcement list active should be done.____
>
> __ __

>
> FWIW, I don't believe we have RSS enabled on the website, and I

> don't see an obvious way to do so.____
>
> __ __

>
> Overall this has a reluctant +1 from me.  I prefer email, but then

> every change breaks someone's workflow[1]____
>
> __ __
>
> G____
>
> __ __
>
> 1: https://xkcd.com/1172/ <https://xkcd.com/1172/>____
>
> __ __

>
> On Tue, Oct 1, 2024 at 12:30 PM Matthias Neugebauer

> <mtn...@shio.solutions> wrote:____

>
> Olaf has some very valid points. My understanding of the
> proposal was that it only affects the users, anwender and dev
> lists. Although, reading it again seems to include every channel
> (i.e. announcements, lms and oat as well?).
>
> I don’t think putting announcements in GitHub Discussions is a
> good idea. IMO the current setup can stay the same, i.e.
> announcements in the Opencast blog will be pushed to the
> announcement list automatically. Not sure if it’s worth to pay
> for only that use, though. I also like the idea from Katrin to
> push posts to Matrix. And for old people we still have RSS…
>
> – Matthias
>
> ---
>
> shio solutions GmbH
> Hafenweg 11a
> 48155 Münster
> Germany
>
> Mail: mtn...@shio.solutions

> Fon: +49 251 97007987 <tel:+49%20251%2097007987>
> Website: https://shio.solutions <https://shio.solutions>

>
> Geschäftsführer: Matthias Neugebauer
> Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Münster HRB 21404
> Sitz: Münster
>
> > On 30. Sep 2024, at 14:19, Schulte Olaf Andreas (ID)
> <sch...@id.ethz.ch> wrote:
> >
> > Rather than objecting, I would like to raise my concerns
> along the lines of Katrin’s question: What’s the future channel
> for announcements to the community, raising awareness for
> upcoming events like the “Save the date” I sent last night or a
> request to participate in a crowd funding? While these are not
> very frequent, the board and others need a channel for this. And
> once you move to other channels for the main communication
> (which I think is reasonable), remaining mailing lists will get
> even less attention. I’m fine with posting this via https://

> opencast.org/blog/ <https://opencast.org/blog/>, but only if it

> doesn’t end up in a channel people don’t pay attention to.
> >  O
> >  Von: us...@opencast.org <us...@opencast.org> Im Auftrag von
> Katrin Ihler
> > Gesendet: Montag, 30. September 2024 09:37
> > An: us...@opencast.org
> > Betreff: Re: [OC Users] Proposal to switch communication channels
> >  +1
> > Just a quick question: Would the announcements list stay in
> some form? Because stuff like 'SysAdmin meeting isn't happening
> today' probably doesn't really belong in a forum-like discussion
> thing, but rather on our blog with the possibility of getting
> notified in time.
> > Katrin
> > Opencast-DevOps Teamlead
> > elan e.V.
> > Karlstr. 23
> > D-26123 Oldeburg
> >

> > elan-ev.de <http://elan-ev.de>

> it, send an email to users+un...@opencast.org.____

>
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,

> send an email to users+un...@opencast.org.____

>
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to users+un...@opencast.org

> <mailto:users+un...@opencast.org>.

[Katrin Ihler]

Hi Lars,

sounds good!

Katrin

Opencast-DevOps Teamlead

ELAN e.V.

[Greg Logan]

I'm good with that!

G

[Daniel Ziegenberg]

+1 from my side.

greetings,
Daniel