Changes to OBRA Chat

[Chuck Kenlan]

Good morning,

Beginning this Friday, March 29,  OBRA Chat will move to a "current OBRA members only" group. We will delete all the members of Chat then add all the current OBRA members. Once you are removed from the platform, you can request to join the group. We will approve only current OBRA members. 

We will begin this process again on January 1, 2025. 

Please let me know if you have any questions. 

Chuck

[J L]

I can imagine a few positive aspects of this policy, but can also imagine quite a few negative aspects.  Emails about upcoming races definitely trigger excitement and can be the catalyst for renewing membership, trying out new racing disciplines, and etc.  The downside to excluding non-active members is that many people who haven't gotten around to renewing (and who have very busy schedules in general) won't get those reminders.

Have you considered something like allowing emails to be received by non-active members, but only active members can post?  And then maybe completely removing email tied to inactive accounts beyond a certain time period (5 years for example).

Respectfully,

Jeff Leonard

"There are 10 types of people in this world.  Those who count in binary and those who don't.."

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[Mike Ripley]

Need Auto Renew! 

Lets find a way to make it happen! 

mike

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/obra.org/d/msgid/obra-chat/CALurLEudjAhk74stTN-69E4Q%3DK9WWmv7iY6af6ppuwztoWYJWQ%40mail.gmail.com.

--

Michael Ripley

Mudslinger Events LLC DBA Oregon Trail Runs

PO Box 87, Monroe, OR. 97456

541-225-7946

mudslingerevents.com

oregontriplecrown.com

oregontrailruns.com

highcascades100.com

 

 

[Tim Schauer]

These are good points Jeff. Im inspired to add my 2 cents...

All,

I think I did my first race at Hagg Lake in 1999. I stopped racing a few years ago after about 20 years of active racing, peaking at maybe 60 events a year for a stretch.

I think I even still bought a license during early COVID when there was no racing. 

But I think it's been 3 years now since I purchased an annual license.

I accept that this means I don't have much of a say in this obra-Chat decision but here's my perspective for whatever it's worth.

I still like being connected to the OBRA community, just no desire to pin on a number for the foreseeable future.

I suspect there are many like me, well into their 50's and beyond who will join me in the OBRA spectator ranks but still want to stay connected.

I wish there was a membership half step where people could "retire" to racer emeritus to be a member but no need for a bib number or anything like that. 

I would think keeping the older crowd "lifers" feeling connected is a good thing.

If not, it's been a good run and I thank you for the opportunity to race here during the golden era of OBRA! 

I wish y'all the best in keeping the rubber side down and the shiny side up!

Cheers,

Tim Schauer 

OBRA Membership #389

schau...@gmail.com

360-904-0748 cell/text

On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 12:06 PM J L <jeff.w....@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/obra.org/d/msgid/obra-chat/CALurLEudjAhk74stTN-69E4Q%3DK9WWmv7iY6af6ppuwztoWYJWQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Christopher Magel]

Thanks for the update Chuck,

I'm in Tim's camp that I've hung up my racing numbers a number of years ago, but appreciate the connectivity of the OBRA community for non-racing events

Grand Fondos, Gravel Grinders, Mountain Bike Oregon, training rides, parts, etc.

I understand the culling and if that's the way the plan is set to go, I appreciate the heads up.

I can always plan to join OBRA on the chance I'll toe the line at a race some time.

[Ron frerichs]

I guess I missed the discussion on why this is needed.  I’m sure there is a reason.  But…

I raced in Oregon for many years (30 if you don’t count breaks).  I moved to Seattle about five years ago.  I plan to make it down to an OBRA race or two this year, but won’t get a license until my plans are firmed up (and will probably purchase an annual license on site).

I would like to stay connected to this chat to hear what’s happening, both with the races I expect to enter and with the community I still feel a part of, even without a license.

Ron

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 26, 2024, at 1:06 PM, Mike Ripley <mi...@mudslingerevents.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/obra.org/d/msgid/obra-chat/CAJx1UYfATvb0DJVRMLsVdVPOcww%3D5%2Bbexhvz7ThCL9gQi7SqbA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Jessica Prior]

I think it merits a discussion as to why this is being done. I also think a ‘lower’ level membership is a really good idea. Perhaps call it a ‘contributing member’ so it provides access to the community and some other benefits and the proceeds go to the scholarship fund? For say, $20 or $30 a year, with the option to upgrade to a full membership by paying the remaining amount? I’m all for the idea of making things potentially safer by having a list serve that’s not just open and available to the public so as to help avoid scams and such. But, I think it would be too bad to cut out some of our more experienced/knowledgeable members of the community or make them pay for a full membership so us youngins can continue to have opportunity to pick the brains of those with more/past experience.

~Jessica

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 26, 2024, at 3:48 PM, Christopher Magel <mag...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the update Chuck,

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/obra.org/d/msgid/obra-chat/ee43576a-88ad-49f2-a7f6-d3fb10dbd734n%40obra.org.

[James King]

+1 Jessica. Also I think there is a benefit from a sale/resale of goods  perspective. And it isn’t just older folks who may not race but are avid riders with great knowledge about routes, conditions, etc. Some of those folks do start racing after some nudging and exposure to the thread

What are the stated goals in making this change? I’m sure they are legit, but the unintended consequences can’t be ignored. 

Jamie King

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/obra.org/d/msgid/obra-chat/CO6PR02MB8737623F7F265A312E928C30AE342%40CO6PR02MB8737.namprd02.prod.outlook.com.

[Josh Ross]

$50 for the year to a good cause and something you appreciate being a part of. Seems reasonable, consider it a donation if you want. 

--
Josh Ross | 626-817-3123

Sent from a mobile device. Please excuse any ridiculous spelling and/or missing words.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/obra.org/d/msgid/obra-chat/ee43576a-88ad-49f2-a7f6-d3fb10dbd734n%40obra.org.

[Chad Sperry]

Folks, OBRA has a great website with all the resources available that you need.  At some point there needs to be some house cleaning to get rid of old emails and folks who no longer contribute.  OBRA relies on all of us as a community to support cycling in Oregon.  I haven't raced in 15 years but I still contribute to OBRA through purchasing a very affordable membership.  I even purchased one in 2020 and 2021 when my family was devastated financially from being shut down from COVID.  It is the least I can do for all the years that they supported me when I raced.  

I am also still lobbying for a seperate OBRA Market place email list to help clean up our current list.  Seems like we could create a second list for anyone selling that 2001 Ritchey Pro Road stem.  😉  I might be dreaming for this to happen but still thought I would throw it out.  

Okay now that I have sufficiently stirred the pot let the barrage of emails begin!

Sincerely,

Chad

On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 6:22 PM Ron frerichs <ronfr...@hotmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/obra.org/d/msgid/obra-chat/CO6PR02MB8737623F7F265A312E928C30AE342%40CO6PR02MB8737.namprd02.prod.outlook.com.

[kin...@duck.com]

Ya’ll have a short memory.

This was done after some rather nasty email exchanges from some members (or possibly just trolls) who were using anonymous email addresses/names, whatever to harass people.

I think though that if you have an old membership with OBRA, your chat email matches your OBRA membership email and you use your name in your signature, there could potentially be a change in this "policy" if it even is a policy

Michael Medina

[Derek Hoenisch]

   What if for next season OBRA starts a “supporters shield “ and offers say a $15 or $25 supporter program with a tshirt and chat access.     (Plus tax deductible) 

      There maybe a considerable amount of individuals that may want to participate and be apart of this long running cycling group

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 26, 2024, at 20:39, Josh Ross <josh....@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/obra.org/d/msgid/obra-chat/CAK3RHBUcfZDDBAt5c--T_dqwP5LHB%2BcqNis0GW5CUtkLLYwrDQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Ron frerichs]

OBRA VISION
Each and every person in the state of Oregon has an awareness of the sport of bicycle racing and the opportunity to participate.

OBRA MISSION
OBRA advances the sport of bicycle racing by providing leadership, facilitating competition, and inspiring participation.

In my mind, closing the chat and removing past members who are not purchasing a current year racing license contradicts both the vision and the mission of OBRA.

---

From: Chad Sperry <ch...@breakawaypro.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2024 6:37 PM
To: Ron frerichs <ronfr...@hotmail.com>
Cc: Mike Ripley <mi...@mudslingerevents.com>; J L <jeff.w....@gmail.com>; Chuck Kenlan <cke...@obra.org>; OBRA Chat <obra...@obra.org>
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Changes to OBRA Chat

[Al Depenbrock]

I’m another old guy that thinks the organization is worthwhile and likes to stay connected. I remain a member to provide a little support and enjoy OBRA Chat. Tim’s points seem well taken. It would be nice to find a way to eliminate scams and still keep “retired “ racers on the list.

Al Depenbrock

OBRA membership #95

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/obra.org/d/msgid/obra-chat/CAOz-14Ga%2B0QxzbKRq%3DnTNNUoGg3w_6mFQVF-7yA7JYp6veedew%40mail.gmail.com.

[Brendan Quinlan]

I'm with Jeff and Tim as to having a one way communications for non-members AND the "Racer Emeritus" status. I renewed this year because I support the efforts of OBRA and our community as well. Not sure how much racing I'll do this year, if at all. But certainly value the contact with the good folks in this cycling community.

BQ

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/obra.org/d/msgid/obra-chat/CAMyteQieBGk%2B8qk1k_J1nyk00GRtiVDpQGOEyFiO5t6zQ7ScZw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Harrison M]

I'm not sure I'll do an OBRA race, living in Seattle now, but $50/year seems like a reasonable price to pay. Local racing is local racing, and it's good stuff.  My two posts over the last year have been to promote WSBA races to OBRA members and in the most recent post, offering an OBRA discount. If this is isn't worth (less than) the price of a Sbux each month to me personally, then why even post? Also, I have purchased two bikes from this list; just for buying/selling bikes along OBRA is worth WAY more than even a monthly triple shot oat milk latte with extra sealant.

Oh yeah, Ravensdale road race is 4/14. OBRA10 gets you $10 off. 

[ronald strasser]

I agree with Rip.  Auto renew is effective for many reasons.  I have lobbied for it.  

It seems that smart programs would be able to distinguish between a non-member email and a scam, but those of you who know me....tech is not something I know much about.  Good luck and OBRA can plan on my annual membership as long as I am able.  ron s.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/obra.org/d/msgid/obra-chat/CAMyteQieBGk%2B8qk1k_J1nyk00GRtiVDpQGOEyFiO5t6zQ7ScZw%40mail.gmail.com.

[J L]

This really sharpens the point I was trying to make.  While cutting "non active members" from the distro list will certainly help reduce trolls, scams, etc, it will also have the (hopefully unintended) side effect of *reducing overall information flow about bike racing in Oregon*.  My suggestion is to find a solution that maximizes both engagement and safety for members.

Respectfully,

Jeff "admittedly-hasn't-renewed-his-license-yet-this-year" Leonard

[Malcolm Johnson]

I've raced a bit with OBRA over past years and appreciate what they do for local racing.

That said, I stopped renewing my OBRA membership when Alpenrose closed as I only race track now.

I still hold a USAC and UCI license for racing track at Nats and Worlds, and I like to buy/sell bike stuff on the OBRA

website.

If this change is made that will no longer be possible without paying up to join.

Cheers, Malcolm

[Chuck Kenlan]

Hi All,

Apologies for not giving an explanation in my original post. I will do that here, but first:

This is the best chat conversation in years and how I see this platform being a benefit to the OBRA community; a respectful back and forth on a topic affecting the community. Since March 20 there have been 30 post topics. Of these 23 were classified ads. Of the seven others, four were from current OBRA members concerning races and rides (community building posts), my post, a separate post on this topic and a couple random posts. Some of the classified ads are from current members but most are from folks that have not been members for a while. 

In 2019 we decided to move chat from our custom platform to Google Groups because we needed to be able to moderate the platform. Moderation takes time. This task falls on Joel Fletcher and me. We read every post before approving it. The board and I have discussed different ways to compensate OBRA for this extra time. In speaking with Chad and other promoters, many do not think Chat is a viable place for their race announcements because they get los in the clutter of all the classified ads. One option was to create an OBRA Marketplace group and charge to post on it and Keep OBRA Chat for racing and race community topics. This is a workable solution but it would require us to moderate two separate platforms and verify payment which just adds more time to our moderation. With the change to current members only there will still be race announcement posts because promoters are required to be members. The posts form photographers and come through the promoters. Hopefully we will see more race reports form people other than Mr. Ron Strasser. 

I do like the idea of a non-racing membership and will work with the board on when and how to implement something like this. On the topic of membership, we need to do a better job of communicating that it is much more than a "racing license". Annual, single event and team membership dues are main revenue sources for OBRA. This revenue is what allows OBRA to greatly subsidize the fees charged to race promoters. Even with increasing liability insurance premiums, we have kept the per-racer surcharge to promoters at $1.25. If we can keep these fees low for promoters, it becomes may more manageable for individuals to put on races. Bike races are the driving force behind the OBRA community, IMHO, Chat is a very small part of the culture and community.  It is the hard working promoters that provide the memorable experiences to our members and create the culture inclusive, friendly competition.  Your OBRA membership also gives you a voice in how OBRA is governed. As a member you can propose changes to our racing and administrative rules (try doing that with your USAC license). Members are also eligible for discounts from our industry partners: https://www2.obra.org/racers/member-benefits/ Look for the addition of USWE and Bike Tires Direct in the coming days. 

We are sticking to the plan to move to a members only platform on Friday morning. We will reevaluate this move in a few months.

See you at the races. 

Chuck

[Paul Wroblewski]

Sadly I think this discourse has shown the pretty typical entitlement that is present in the local cycling community. People who feel like something is owed to them without doing anything in return, and/or those who can’t see the value in supporting others if they don’t see something in it for themselves. All it takes is the cost of a membership to post on the board, which helps out the OBRA community regardless of whether you actually race or not. This really isn’t difficult; buy a membership, post on the board. 

Or would everybody prefer that OBRA takes a percentage of every sale made on here? Seems only fair since they are facilitating the space for others to benefit from. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 27, 2024, at 10:04 AM, J L <jeff.w....@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/obra.org/d/msgid/obra-chat/CALurLEtDYKi2dcBVgh0We3C%2BtLUSK2%3DBaN26SMDEMW3t7QfiCw%40mail.gmail.com.

[J L]

Huh, I'm not sure how that message was received, as it seems like people are mostly mentioning how much they appreciate the community, asking for different tiers of membership, and making constructive suggestions.

I still think a simple solution for minimizing spam and maximizing engagement is:

- All members receive messages (up to 5 years after membership lapsed, or something like that)

- Only active/current members can post

Respectfully,

Jeff Leonard

"There are 10 types of people in this world.  Those who count in binary and those who don't.."

[Dillon Maloney]

Hey all, 

I know it’s been repeated a few times in the responses above but I just want to add another voice to the pile. 

I agree that getting emails and being able to post is a great way to stay in touch with community regardless of current racing status. I’m seeing a lot of responses voicing how racing days might be behind folks, but that they really care about the community at large. 

To put it directly, prove it. Even if you aren’t racing, pay for a OBRA license. Pay it forward to the community. Honestly I don’t think a new lower dollar amount needs to be created for this. If you aren’t racing anymore, that means you are also not paying for race entry fees, travel expenses, racing equipment, etc. so use those savings to help the community. 

Time and time again I’ve seen people complain about the rising costs of everything. But if you think about it, if more people were contributing maybe these price increases wouldn’t have to happen helping to keep things as accessible as possible for folks that don’t have as many funds. 

TLDR: put your money where your mouth is. If you care about the community, prove it don’t just talk about it. Let’s do something to make it better for everyone. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 27, 2024, at 12:17 PM, Paul Wroblewski <in...@roulecycling.com> wrote:

Sadly I think this discourse has shown the pretty typical entitlement that is present in the local cycling community. People who feel like something is owed to them without doing anything in return, and/or those who can’t see the value in supporting others if they don’t see something in it for themselves. All it takes is the cost of a membership to post on the board, which helps out the OBRA community regardless of whether you actually race or not. This really isn’t difficult; buy a membership, post on the board. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/obra.org/d/msgid/obra-chat/EA078D6B-210E-4A8E-8F93-F3FCF15DAF04%40roulecycling.com.

[Tim Schauer]

All, 

I might have played a hand is sparking this ongoing thread. So here is where I landed today.

I purchased my 2024 OBRA membership today. I encourage others to can to join me. 

I also want to express my appreciation to Chuck for some very candid and thoughtful exchanges here and for those he and I have had offline in the last 48 hours on this membership topic. 

The commitment to explore a membership system with choices or tiers is promising. 

 Cheers

Tim Schauer

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/obra.org/d/msgid/obra-chat/0aff689b-1ae2-45fc-b02f-651b69e9c72bn%40obra.org.

[Michael Ybaben]

Peace out everyone!  Race well, be well.

On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 11:46 AM Chuck Kenlan <cke...@obra.org> wrote:

--

[James King]

I assume that since I’m still getting posts that I already renewed for the year. Yay! I wasn’t sure I had yet. This won’t be on the list of the thousand things I forget to do each year until I realize I haven’t done them yet. Wins all around. Lol

Jamie King

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/obra.org/d/msgid/obra-chat/CANRsKS32Kw0tMZ_YPVnis0YdjpAJGNVV23LphFTOgWckMQT3yQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Joel Fletcher]

Hey, Jamie. We will be making this change over around 9am this morning. But, it does look like your OBRA Membership is up to date and current.

Thanks!

Joel Fletcher

Marketing, Development, and Junior Racing Director | Oregon Bicycle Racing Association