How Do You Email

[Bhavya shah]

I have recently realized that my email management workflow is not ideal. For different accounts, I end up using: Gmail Standard View on Brave, Outlook new app, and Outlook classic app. I experience accessibility annoyances with all of these:

• Gmail Standard View: I just spent 20 minutes struggling to compose an email. I typed the first letter of an email address in the To field, and it kicked me out of the edit field into an unspecified control with the first email suggestion it could think of. Tabbing around wouldn’t get me back into the edit field. I often got kicked out of the compose section altogether, which was relegated to a dialog on the second last line of the page. Back in that compose dialog, I sometimes got jumped to an enter prompt edit box, arrowing down from which got me to my email signature. I finally got the correct recipient entered another way and resolved the matter.

• Outlook new and classic apps: These are fine, other than the latency when arrowing through my Inbox. Compared to jumping by link on a typical website, arrowing down a message in my Inbox in either of the Outlook apps has a slight lag before NVDA speaks. I worry that for a high-traffic email account, this would add up. Another issue I’ve faced is navigating to an older email in a thread and replying to that message as opposed to the most recent one. Another issue specific to the classic app is if I prematurely arrow up or down while it is loading, I get stuck on a window titled “googledrivefs” which I Alt+Tab out of and then get stuck in an Outlook window consisting of a blank dialog and nothing else. Another issue is NVDA skips some text and repeats other in the message field when composing in Outlook. I can go on.

(I am using latest stable versions of all software: NVDA, Brave, Outlook, and Windows.)

 

For the longest time, I was content with Gmail Basic HTML. Now that it is obsolete, I am trying to figure out a flow where I can do my simplest email tasks hassle-free. Can you help me iron out each of the issues I described earlier one by one? Should I be using a browser other than Brave? Is there a simpler, more accessible email client than Outlook I should be using? What is your email setup?

 

With gratitude, 

Bhavya Shah 

[Gene Asner]

As far as the new Outlook is concerned, I've played with it a little.
If you get moved out of the message list, the command control shift I
moves you back to it. This won't move you to another folder if you were
there and got thrown out, but it will move you to the inbox.

Also, are you using f6 to move around the new Outlook? That is the most
efficient way to move to various places you would generally want to work.

You don't say anything about using Thunderbird. Why?

Gene

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[Gene Asner]

I should have asked more than why you don't mention Thunderbird. I
consider it the best e-mail option.

Gene

[Gene Asner]

Also, what browser are you using with GMail? When a site doesn't work
properly, one of the first things to do is to try another browser. I
don't just try another one as the first different browser, I try a
different kind of browser. If I'm using a Chrome browser, I try
Firefox. If I'm using A not Chrome Browser like Firefox, I try a Chrome
browser.

Gene

On 11/24/2025 5:43 AM, Gene Asner wrote:

[Mujtaba Merchant]

Lucky for me, I just have 2 mail ID's. One with Google and the other with iCloud. I have configured both of them on Outlook 2019 and mail from both the accounts are directed to one Inbox using Outlook rules.

I do agree NVDA gets sluggish when opening a mail to read it and also as mentioned earlier on this group I have problems with NVDA not reading out the text being selected when using the CNTRL + SHIFT and arrow keys. It just reads out the first word selected and the rest is muted.

I have today updated to version: 2025.3.2 unfortunately, facing the same issues. Have also restarted the computer after updating and checked that my Windows 10 is up to date and so is Outlook.

I am living with this challenge for a long time now, don't even remember when this issue started. Having said that, will be updating to Windows 11 and a new machine with a faster processor sometime in March/ April 2026 and hoping that things correct themselves.

Sincerely,

Mujtaba Merchant
Bangalore | INDIA
Mail: mujt...@gmail.com
Website: The Somebody, Nobody, Anybody & Everybody Blog!
Sent from Outlook ® for Windows 10

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[Gene Asner]

You shouldn't have the problem with Thunderbird. Unless you have a
specific reason to use the old Outlook, you may find Thunderbird to be
better.

If you are going to try Thunderbird, try Thunderbird Portable. If you
decide to continue to use it, we can discuss making a backup, which will
allow you, if something happens to the copy you are using, to replace it
with no trouble shooting.

Gene

[Jason J.G. White]

On 24/11/25 07:47, Gene Asner wrote:
> You shouldn't have the problem with Thunderbird.  Unless you have a
> specific reason to use the old Outlook, you may find Thunderbird to be
> better.

It works well for me under Linux; I haven't tried it under Windows, but
I assume it's very similar.

Note that unlike either the old or the new version of Microsoft Outlook,
Thunderbird supports a unified inbox for all of your mail accounts. It
also handles message quoting well, and remains an actively developed
project (Microsoft Exchange protocol support was recently added, for
example).

If you want better keyboard navigation for folder selection, you
currently need to install a Thunderbird extension.

I would expect Thunderbird and NVDA to work well together.

[Gene Asner]

The one annoyance I've found is that JAWS doesn't display messages
properly. It shows the subject line as the first line in the message
body so if you hear the subject when in the message list, then open the
message, it is read again. People really should complain to Vispero
about this. It is a JAWS problem. It doesn't happen with Thunderbird.

Gene

On 11/24/2025 9:28 AM, 'Jason J.G. White' via NVDA Screen Reader

[Gene Asner]

Of course, since this is an NVDA list, users can just use NVDA and avoid
the problem though, of course, some members may use both screen-readers.
But there is generally better support for Thunderbird with NVDA if you
want to use attachments developed to make use more convenient.

Gene

[Sarah Alawami]

I agree. I've been using T-Bird since 2024 and have 3 portable copies
whit 3 different emails. actually I lie, more like 4, one of which has 2
emails for some external services I run. It now is a lot better than it
used to be so long as I don't do anything like delete over 8 thousand
messages at once. I just learned how to make smart search folders which
actually work now. I don't know how to do the advanced stuff, and that's OK.

[Sarah Alawami]

You can change that. I have most columns hidden and my email columns
adjusted and saved across most views and folders. Her is a dedicated
list on groups.io you can access to ask questions if interested. Search
for Thunderbird on groups.io and you should be able to find it.

[Gene Asner]

This isn't a problem you can solve in that way. The reason it displays
the subject line is because JAWS browse mode, displays the title of web
pages as the first line of the web page. In e-mails, instead of the
title, it displays the subject line, something they should have scripted
JAWS not to do a long time ago.

Gene

[Bhavya shah]

I have never tried Thunderbird. Until now, that is. :) I installed Thunderbird Desktop and here is a beginner question: once I have pressed Enter on a message in the message list, how do I get back to that same place in the message list after I’m done reading it? I can’t find a direct keyboard shortcut and pressing Shift+F6 with a few Tabs seems inefficient. I would appreciate any guidance.

Warmly,

Bhavya Shah 

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[Martina Letochová]

Escape or ctrl+w should do for that.
Martina

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[Gene Asner]

I'll answer here and I'm not the owner nor a moderator, but this really
should be moved to the chat list, so I won't answer more messages in the
thread here.

For now, close the message with control w. To get escape to work, I'll
have to find out what setting you change. I do it so seldom, I'd want
to check.

I don't use the program this way but you may be opening more than one
message window. The default is to thread messages. Changing the
setting to unthreaded may solve the problem.

Do the following:
Open the view menu, alt v.
Down arrow to sort by and press enter.
Down arrow to unthreaded and press enter.
Mail will now not be threaded and that may solve the problem.

Gene

On 11/24/2025 2:03 PM, Bhavya shah wrote:
> I have never tried Thunderbird. Until now, that is. :) I installed
> Thunderbird Desktop and here is a beginner question: once I have pressed
> Enter on a message in the message list, how do I get back to that same
> place in the message list after I’m done reading it? I can’t find a
> direct keyboard shortcut and pressing Shift+F6 with a few Tabs seems
> inefficient. I would appreciate any guidance.
>
> Warmly,
>
> Bhavya Shah
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 8:19 AM Gene Asner <gsa...@gmail.com
> <mailto:gsa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> This isn't a problem you can solve in that way.  The reason it displays
> the subject line is because JAWS browse mode, displays the title of web
> pages as the first line of the web page.  In e-mails, instead of the
> title, it displays the subject line, something they should have
> scripted
> JAWS not to do a long time ago.
>
> Gene
>
> On 11/24/2025 10:05 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> > You can change that. I have most columns hidden and my email columns
> > adjusted and saved across most views and folders. Her is a dedicated

> > list on groups.io <http://groups.io> you can access to ask
> questions if interested. Search
> > for Thunderbird on groups.io <http://groups.io> and you should be

> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bman...@nvaccess.org>.

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>
> --
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> Please note: the NVDA project has a Citizen and Contributor Code of Conduct.
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[Gene Asner]

I just realized the discussion is occurring on the NVDA list without a
chat list. So I'll continue the discussion and see if the owner or
moderators want it moved somewhere.

Gene

On 11/24/2025 2:03 PM, Bhavya shah wrote:

> I have never tried Thunderbird. Until now, that is. :) I installed
> Thunderbird Desktop and here is a beginner question: once I have pressed
> Enter on a message in the message list, how do I get back to that same
> place in the message list after I’m done reading it? I can’t find a
> direct keyboard shortcut and pressing Shift+F6 with a few Tabs seems
> inefficient. I would appreciate any guidance.
>
> Warmly,
>
> Bhavya Shah
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 8:19 AM Gene Asner <gsa...@gmail.com
> <mailto:gsa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> This isn't a problem you can solve in that way.  The reason it displays
> the subject line is because JAWS browse mode, displays the title of web
> pages as the first line of the web page.  In e-mails, instead of the
> title, it displays the subject line, something they should have
> scripted
> JAWS not to do a long time ago.
>
> Gene
>
> On 11/24/2025 10:05 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> > You can change that. I have most columns hidden and my email columns
> > adjusted and saved across most views and folders. Her is a dedicated

> > list on groups.io <http://groups.io> you can access to ask
> questions if interested. Search
> > for Thunderbird on groups.io <http://groups.io> and you should be

> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bman...@nvaccess.org>.

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>
> --
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> Please note: the NVDA project has a Citizen and Contributor Code of Conduct.
> NV Access expects that all community members will read and abide by the
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[Bhavya shah]

Thanks for the Ctrl+w/Ctrl+F4 tip. Analysing the NVDA log and comparing the time of the arrow press and the time of NVDA’s resulting speech, it seems like there is anywhere from a 0.5 to a 3 second lag when arrowing through the message list in Thunderbird. Contrast this with the <0.1 second latency when navigating by link in Gmail Standard View on Chrome. I pressed F8 to disable the message pane. Actually, even when moving through the menus, NVDA is very laggy in Thunderbird right now. (Note that NVDA is doing fine in Word, Chrome, and elsewhere in Windows right now.) What do you make of this?

 

Kindly,

Bhavya Shah | M.S. AI & B.S. Math/CS, Stanford University

LinkedIn | Instagram | Website

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[Sarah Alawami]

I'm getting no such lags. I'm using TBird right now to write this and I use TBurd to read all messages. You need to wait for the sync to happen the first time and unsubscribe from all mail. anyway if you have any question splease subscribe to the ghunderbird group on groups.io

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[Gene Asner]

I don't know what causes it. I hear speech almost immediately when I
move in the list.

As an experiment, try holding control while you move. That will keep
messages from being selected as you move to them. I'm not suggesting
doing that in general, but to see if selecting may have anything to do
with the problem, at least on your machine.

Gene

On 11/24/2025 3:02 PM, Bhavya shah wrote:
> Thanks for the Ctrl+w/Ctrl+F4 tip. Analysing the NVDA log and comparing
> the time of the arrow press and the time of NVDA’s resulting speech, it
> seems like there is anywhere from a 0.5 to a 3 second lag when arrowing
> through the message list in Thunderbird. Contrast this with the <0.1
> second latency when navigating by link in Gmail Standard View on Chrome.
> I pressed F8 to disable the message pane. Actually, even when moving
> through the menus, NVDA is very laggy in Thunderbird right now. (Note
> that NVDA is doing fine in Word, Chrome, and elsewhere in Windows right
> now.) What do you make of this?
>
> Kindly,
>
> Bhavya Shah | M.S. AI & B.S. Math/CS, Stanford University
>

> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/> | Instagram
> <https://www.instagram.com/mynameisnotjavier> | Website
> <https://bhavyashahcomedy.com/>

>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 12:23 PM Gene Asner <gsa...@gmail.com
> <mailto:gsa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I just realized the discussion is occurring on the NVDA list without a
> chat list.  So I'll continue the discussion and see if the owner or
> moderators want it moved somewhere.
>
> Gene
>
> On 11/24/2025 2:03 PM, Bhavya shah wrote:
> > I have never tried Thunderbird. Until now, that is. :) I installed
> > Thunderbird Desktop and here is a beginner question: once I have
> pressed
> > Enter on a message in the message list, how do I get back to that
> same
> > place in the message list after I’m done reading it? I can’t find a
> > direct keyboard shortcut and pressing Shift+F6 with a few Tabs seems
> > inefficient. I would appreciate any guidance.
> >
> > Warmly,
> >
> > Bhavya Shah
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 8:19 AM Gene Asner <gsa...@gmail.com
> <mailto:gsa...@gmail.com>

> > <mailto:gsa...@gmail.com <mailto:gsa...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >
> >     This isn't a problem you can solve in that way.  The reason
> it displays
> >     the subject line is because JAWS browse mode, displays the
> title of web
> >     pages as the first line of the web page.  In e-mails, instead
> of the
> >     title, it displays the subject line, something they should have
> >     scripted
> >     JAWS not to do a long time ago.
> >
> >     Gene
> >
> >     On 11/24/2025 10:05 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> >      > You can change that. I have most columns hidden and my
> email columns
> >      > adjusted and saved across most views and folders. Her is a
> dedicated

> >      > list on groups.io <http://groups.io> <http://groups.io

> <http://groups.io>> you can access to ask
> >     questions if interested. Search
> >      > for Thunderbird on groups.io <http://groups.io>

> <http://groups.io <http://groups.io>> and you should be

> >     <mailto:nvda-users%2Bman...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%252Bma...@nvaccess.org>>.

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> >     <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%252Buns...@nvaccess.org>>.

> > <mailto:nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org

> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org>>.
> > To view this discussion visit
> >

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>
> >
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>
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[Gene Asner]

I am not unsubscribed from all mail and I have no such problem. I would
wait to see if the problem stops by itself if you leave the program
opened and let it synchronize, as has been suggested.

Also, are you using Windows Defender with an IMAP account?
Synchronizing may take longer and slows the program down more because of
a conflict between Windows Live Mail and the program. A long time ago,
I saw a message about how to stop Windows Defender from monitoring the
folder that will stop the problem but I don't know if it is a good idea.

Gene

On 11/24/2025 3:13 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> I'm getting no such lags. I'm using TBird right now to write this and I
> use TBurd to read all messages. You need to wait for the sync to happen
> the first time and unsubscribe from all mail. anyway if you have any
> question splease subscribe to the ghunderbird group on groups.io
>
> On 11/24/2025 1:02 PM, Bhavya shah wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the Ctrl+w/Ctrl+F4 tip. Analysing the NVDA log and
>> comparing the time of the arrow press and the time of NVDA’s resulting
>> speech, it seems like there is anywhere from a 0.5 to a 3 second lag
>> when arrowing through the message list in Thunderbird. Contrast this
>> with the <0.1 second latency when navigating by link in Gmail Standard
>> View on Chrome. I pressed F8 to disable the message pane. Actually,
>> even when moving through the menus, NVDA is very laggy in Thunderbird
>> right now. (Note that NVDA is doing fine in Word, Chrome, and
>> elsewhere in Windows right now.) What do you make of this?
>>
>> Kindly,
>>
>> Bhavya Shah | M.S. AI & B.S. Math/CS, Stanford University
>>

>> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/> | Instagram
>> <https://www.instagram.com/mynameisnotjavier> | Website
>> <https://bhavyashahcomedy.com/>
>>
>>
>>

>> >      > list on groups.io <http://groups.io> <http://groups.io>

>> >     <mailto:nvda-users%2Bman...@nvaccess.org
>> <mailto:nvda-users%252Bma...@nvaccess.org>>.

>> >     ---
>> >     You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>> Google
>> >     Groups "NVDA Screen Reader Discussion" group.
>> >     To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>> from it,
>> >     send an email to nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org
>> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org>

>> >     <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org
>> <mailto:nvda-users%252Buns...@nvaccess.org>>.

>> >     To view this discussion visit
>> >
>> https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/da1234ca-8212-897f-a092-7a8c402a6714%40gmail.com
>> >
>>  <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/da1234ca-8212-897f-a092-7a8c402a6714%40gmail.com>.
>> >
>> > --
>> > ***
>> > Please note: the NVDA project has a Citizen and Contributor Code
>> of Conduct.
>> > NV Access expects that all community members will read and abide
>> by the
>> > rules set out in this document while participating in this group.
>> > https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
>> > <https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md>
>> >
>> > You can contact the group owners and moderators via
>> > nvda-user...@nvaccess.org
>> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bman...@nvaccess.org>.
>> > ---
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups "NVDA Screen Reader Discussion" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>> it, send
>> > an email to nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org
>> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org>

>> > <mailto:nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org

>> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org>>.
>> > To view this discussion visit
>> >

>> https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/CACHadJ1VAuQL-NnjLJkVzUDWk0E4L1mADbcqEE8oNLhDAzahjw%40mail.gmail.com
>>
>> >
>> <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/CACHadJ1VAuQL-NnjLJkVzUDWk0E4L1mADbcqEE8oNLhDAzahjw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

>> <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/CACHadJ1VAuQL-NnjLJkVzUDWk0E4L1mADbcqEE8oNLhDAzahjw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>>
>> --
>> ***
>> Please note: the NVDA project has a Citizen and Contributor Code
>> of Conduct.
>> NV Access expects that all community members will read and abide
>> by the rules set out in this document while participating in this
>> group.
>> https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
>>
>> You can contact the group owners and moderators via

>> nvda-user...@nvaccess.org
>> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bman...@nvaccess.org>.
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "NVDA Screen Reader Discussion" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send an email to nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org
>> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org>.
>> To view this discussion visit

>> https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/5881e255-7587-aecb-3b18-30a99ec6545e%40gmail.com.
>>
>> --
>> ***
>> Please note: the NVDA project has a Citizen and Contributor Code of
>> Conduct.
>> NV Access expects that all community members will read and abide by
>> the rules set out in this document while participating in this group.
>> https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
>>
>> You can contact the group owners and moderators via
>> nvda-user...@nvaccess.org.
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "NVDA Screen Reader Discussion" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email to nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org.
>> To view this discussion visit
>> https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/CACHadJ1PMHWSWikH5pDNPdQRnWiFz%2BhC6n74NN8K8D5%3DgNzSvQ%40mail.gmail.com

>> <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/CACHadJ1PMHWSWikH5pDNPdQRnWiFz%2BhC6n74NN8K8D5%3DgNzSvQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

>
> --
> ***
> Please note: the NVDA project has a Citizen and Contributor Code of Conduct.
> NV Access expects that all community members will read and abide by the
> rules set out in this document while participating in this group.
> https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
> <https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md>
>
> You can contact the group owners and moderators via
> nvda-user...@nvaccess.org.
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "NVDA Screen Reader Discussion" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org>.
> To view this discussion visit

> https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/a9644767-12c0-47ff-b726-d8579967c139%40gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/a9644767-12c0-47ff-b726-d8579967c139%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Bhavya shah]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful inputs, esp. Gene. Here’s where I’m at:

• Switching to Google Chrome has significantly improved my Gmail Standard View experience. I now stick to focus mode and Gmail’s keyboard shortcuts as much as I can. I’ve turned of the smart features in Google Workspace to clean up the message composition screen a little.

• I plan to use my non-Gmail accounts on Thunderbird. You were correct in that the messages are still downloading, and have been for the last many hours (despite me snoozing my anti-virus program), and that may be contributing to the sluggishness. I will continue familiarizing myself with the Thunderbird interface and its shortcuts, and get the NVDA add-on if my workflow still feels suboptimal.

 

I feel much better about my email setup with these changes. Many thanks.

 

With gratitude,

Bhavya Shah | M.S. AI & B.S. Math/CS, Stanford University

LinkedIn | Instagram | Website

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/fecc5b43-719a-099a-18f7-5a6fb4816a63%40gmail.com.

[Gene Asner]

That's good, but Sara suggested that downloading messages could be
causing sluggishness. I hadn't thought about that, though when I first
open Thunderbird after not being used for a number of hours, it is slow
while messages download. I commented after Sara's message.

If the download time is unreasonably slow, ask about the Windows
Defender conflict, which may cause slow downloads.

Gene

On 11/24/2025 7:44 PM, Bhavya shah wrote:
> Thank you everyone for your thoughtful inputs, esp. Gene. Here’s where
> I’m at:
>
> • Switching to Google Chrome has significantly improved my Gmail
> Standard View experience. I now stick to focus mode and Gmail’s keyboard
> shortcuts as much as I can. I’ve turned of the smart features in Google
> Workspace to clean up the message composition screen a little.
>
> • I plan to use my non-Gmail accounts on Thunderbird. You were correct
> in that the messages are still downloading, and have been for the last
> many hours (despite me snoozing my anti-virus program), and that may be
> contributing to the sluggishness. I will continue familiarizing myself
> with the Thunderbird interface and its shortcuts, and get the NVDA
> add-on if my workflow still feels suboptimal.
>
> I feel much better about my email setup with these changes. Many thanks.
>
> With gratitude,
>
> Bhavya Shah | M.S. AI & B.S. Math/CS, Stanford University
>

> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/> | Instagram
> <https://www.instagram.com/mynameisnotjavier> | Website
> <https://bhavyashahcomedy.com/>
>
>
>

> On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 1:17 PM Gene Asner <gsa...@gmail.com
> <mailto:gsa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I am not unsubscribed from all mail and I have no such problem.  I
> would
> wait to see if the problem stops by itself if you leave the program
> opened and let it synchronize, as has been suggested.
>
> Also, are you using Windows Defender with an IMAP account?
> Synchronizing may take longer and slows the program down more
> because of
> a conflict between Windows Live Mail and the program.  A long time ago,
> I saw a message about how to stop Windows Defender from monitoring the
> folder that will stop the problem but I don't know if it is a good idea.
>
> Gene
>
> On 11/24/2025 3:13 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> > I'm getting no such lags. I'm using TBird right now to write this
> and I
> > use TBurd to read all messages. You need to wait for the sync to
> happen
> > the first time and unsubscribe from all mail. anyway if you have any
> > question splease subscribe to the ghunderbird group on groups.io

> <http://groups.io>

> >
> > On 11/24/2025 1:02 PM, Bhavya shah wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks for the Ctrl+w/Ctrl+F4 tip. Analysing the NVDA log and
> >> comparing the time of the arrow press and the time of NVDA’s
> resulting
> >> speech, it seems like there is anywhere from a 0.5 to a 3 second
> lag
> >> when arrowing through the message list in Thunderbird. Contrast
> this
> >> with the <0.1 second latency when navigating by link in Gmail
> Standard
> >> View on Chrome. I pressed F8 to disable the message pane. Actually,
> >> even when moving through the menus, NVDA is very laggy in
> Thunderbird
> >> right now. (Note that NVDA is doing fine in Word, Chrome, and
> >> elsewhere in Windows right now.) What do you make of this?
> >>
> >> Kindly,
> >>
> >> Bhavya Shah | M.S. AI & B.S. Math/CS, Stanford University
> >>
> >> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/>> | Instagram
> >> <https://www.instagram.com/mynameisnotjavier
> <https://www.instagram.com/mynameisnotjavier>> | Website

> >> <https://bhavyashahcomedy.com/ <https://bhavyashahcomedy.com/>>

> >>     > <mailto:gsa...@gmail.com <mailto:gsa...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >>     >
> >>     >     This isn't a problem you can solve in that way.  The
> reason
> >>     it displays
> >>     >     the subject line is because JAWS browse mode, displays the
> >>     title of web
> >>     >     pages as the first line of the web page.  In e-mails,
> >>     instead of the
> >>     >     title, it displays the subject line, something they
> should have
> >>     >     scripted
> >>     >     JAWS not to do a long time ago.
> >>     >
> >>     >     Gene
> >>     >
> >>     >     On 11/24/2025 10:05 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> >>     >      > You can change that. I have most columns hidden and my
> >>     email columns
> >>     >      > adjusted and saved across most views and folders.
> Her is
> >>     a dedicated
> >>     >      > list on groups.io <http://groups.io>

> <http://groups.io <http://groups.io>> <http://groups.io

> <http://groups.io>>
> >>     you can access to ask
> >>     >     questions if interested. Search
> >>     >      > for Thunderbird on groups.io <http://groups.io>

> <http://groups.io <http://groups.io>>

> >>     >     <mailto:nvda-users%2Bman...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%252Bma...@nvaccess.org>
> >>     <mailto:nvda-users%252Bma...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%25252Bm...@nvaccess.org>>>.

> >>     >     ---
> >>     >     You received this message because you are subscribed
> to the
> >>     Google
> >>     >     Groups "NVDA Screen Reader Discussion" group.
> >>     >     To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
> >>     from it,
> >>     >     send an email to nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org>
> >>     <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%252Buns...@nvaccess.org>>

> >>     >     <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%252Buns...@nvaccess.org>
> >>     <mailto:nvda-users%252Buns...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%25252Bun...@nvaccess.org>>>.

> >>     > <mailto:nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org

> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org>
> >>     <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%252Buns...@nvaccess.org>>>.
> >>     > To view this discussion visit
> >>     >
> >>

> https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/CACHadJ1VAuQL-NnjLJkVzUDWk0E4L1mADbcqEE8oNLhDAzahjw%40mail.gmail.com

> <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/CACHadJ1VAuQL-NnjLJkVzUDWk0E4L1mADbcqEE8oNLhDAzahjw%40mail.gmail.com>
> >>
> >>     >
> >>
>  <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/CACHadJ1VAuQL-NnjLJkVzUDWk0E4L1mADbcqEE8oNLhDAzahjw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/CACHadJ1VAuQL-NnjLJkVzUDWk0E4L1mADbcqEE8oNLhDAzahjw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> >>
>  <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/CACHadJ1VAuQL-NnjLJkVzUDWk0E4L1mADbcqEE8oNLhDAzahjw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/CACHadJ1VAuQL-NnjLJkVzUDWk0E4L1mADbcqEE8oNLhDAzahjw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>.
> >>
> >>     --
> >>     ***
> >>     Please note: the NVDA project has a Citizen and Contributor Code
> >>     of Conduct.
> >>     NV Access expects that all community members will read and abide
> >>     by the rules set out in this document while participating in
> this
> >>     group.
> >> https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md

> <https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md>
> >>
> >>     You can contact the group owners and moderators via
> >> nvda-user...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bman...@nvaccess.org>
> >>     <mailto:nvda-users%2Bman...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%252Bma...@nvaccess.org>>.
> >>     ---
> >>     You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google
> >>     Groups "NVDA Screen Reader Discussion" group.
> >>     To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
> from it,
> >>     send an email to nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org>
> >>     <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%252Buns...@nvaccess.org>>.
> >>     To view this discussion visit
> >>

> https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/5881e255-7587-aecb-3b18-30a99ec6545e%40gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/5881e255-7587-aecb-3b18-30a99ec6545e%40gmail.com>.

> >>
> >> --
> >> ***
> >> Please note: the NVDA project has a Citizen and Contributor Code of
> >> Conduct.
> >> NV Access expects that all community members will read and abide by
> >> the rules set out in this document while participating in this
> group.
> >> https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
> <https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md>
> >>
> >> You can contact the group owners and moderators via
> >> nvda-user...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bman...@nvaccess.org>.
> >> ---
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> Groups "NVDA Screen Reader Discussion" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
> it, send
> >> an email to nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org

> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org>.

> >> To view this discussion visit
> >>

> https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/CACHadJ1PMHWSWikH5pDNPdQRnWiFz%2BhC6n74NN8K8D5%3DgNzSvQ%40mail.gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/CACHadJ1PMHWSWikH5pDNPdQRnWiFz%2BhC6n74NN8K8D5%3DgNzSvQ%40mail.gmail.com>
>
> >>
> <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/CACHadJ1PMHWSWikH5pDNPdQRnWiFz%2BhC6n74NN8K8D5%3DgNzSvQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

> <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/CACHadJ1PMHWSWikH5pDNPdQRnWiFz%2BhC6n74NN8K8D5%3DgNzSvQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> >
> > --
> > ***
> > Please note: the NVDA project has a Citizen and Contributor Code
> of Conduct.
> > NV Access expects that all community members will read and abide
> by the
> > rules set out in this document while participating in this group.
> > https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
> <https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md>

> > <https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
> <https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md>>
> >
> > You can contact the group owners and moderators via
> > nvda-user...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bman...@nvaccess.org>.
> > ---
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "NVDA Screen Reader Discussion" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org>
> > <mailto:nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org>>.
> > To view this discussion visit
> >

> https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/a9644767-12c0-47ff-b726-d8579967c139%40gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/a9644767-12c0-47ff-b726-d8579967c139%40gmail.com>
>
> >
> <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/a9644767-12c0-47ff-b726-d8579967c139%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

> <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/a9644767-12c0-47ff-b726-d8579967c139%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>
> --
> ***
> Please note: the NVDA project has a Citizen and Contributor Code of
> Conduct.
> NV Access expects that all community members will read and abide by
> the rules set out in this document while participating in this group.
> https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md

> <https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md>
>
> You can contact the group owners and moderators via
> nvda-user...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bman...@nvaccess.org>.
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "NVDA Screen Reader Discussion" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send an email to nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users%2Bunsu...@nvaccess.org>.
> To view this discussion visit

> https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/fecc5b43-719a-099a-18f7-5a6fb4816a63%40gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/fecc5b43-719a-099a-18f7-5a6fb4816a63%40gmail.com>.

>
> --
> ***
> Please note: the NVDA project has a Citizen and Contributor Code of Conduct.
> NV Access expects that all community members will read and abide by the
> rules set out in this document while participating in this group.
> https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
> <https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md>
>
> You can contact the group owners and moderators via
> nvda-user...@nvaccess.org.
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "NVDA Screen Reader Discussion" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org
> <mailto:nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org>.
> To view this discussion visit

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[Richard Turner]

I have never found Windows defender to slow down my system, though I also do not use Thunderbird but Outlook.
If anyone is running a secondary antivirus program on top of Defender, they are asking for system slow downs.



Richard, USA,
he only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance."
-- Alan Watts (1915-1973)

My web site: https://www.turner42.com

-----Original Message-----
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Subject: Re: [NVDA] How Do You Email

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[Gene Asner]

It doesn't slow down the system. It may slow down Thunderbird when it
is downloading messages because of some sort of conflict. I tested this
after someone on a list suggested this and it is the case. I turned off
real time protection and opened the program so messages would download.
The download was much faster. I then did something, it was years ago
and I don't remember what, to exclude a certain folder from being
scanned. I don't remember why now, but my understanding was that doing
so wouldn't lower my safety; perhaps even though the folder is excluded,
messages are stilled scanned when you open one to look for problems
before they are allowed to open. Others may know.

I am only using Windows Defender.

Gene

On 11/25/2025 10:21 AM, 'Richard Turner' via NVDA Screen Reader

[Gene Asner]

I should add that this happened a number of years ago and I don't know
if the conflict still exists. But if mail downloading is slow and the
system is working well, the Windows Defender problem is one to rule in
or out.

Gene

[kers...@montana.com]

Hi,

I run ESET anti virus on top of defender. It does catch threats especially in email attachments.

It does not seem to slow down my Lenovo, and I have used it for several decades.

Best
George

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/011101dc5e27%249741a730%24c5c4f590%24%40comcast.net.

[Gene Asner]

But the question is, does Esset catch malware because it runs ahead of
Windows Defender, seeing the files first or is Windows Defender not as
good at detecting malware.  It shouldn't be assumed that Windows
Defender wouldn't do as well if it were the only program running.


I'm not saying that to say you shouldn't run Esset, I'm saying it
because some people might worry about whether they are being adequately
protected.


Gene