PDF and NVDA Focus/Browse Mode and cursor placement

[Kerry Young]

Hello, I am testing PDF Forms with NVDA and would like some guidance from this group on something that I am observing. I would like to be able to confirm that the issue is:

1) inherent in PDF+NVDA and not related either to the structure of the generate PDFs from my project or 

2) an issue with my NVDA and PDF setup.

I have accessibility set up in Adobe and in NVDA the following are unchecked: Automatic focus mode for focus changes, Auto focus mode for caret movement, Audio Indication of focus and browser modes

STEPS TO TEST

1. Choose Browse mode to scan a PDF with forms
2. Land on form field NVDA 
3. NVDA isn't automatically switching to Focus.  (That's fine, I've read on forums that can happen.)
4. Manually switch to Focus mode with NVDA + space
5. The Focus is not set on the field (although in the check boxes this often does work)
6. Enter does not "activate" the field for entry
7. If I tab the cursor moves to a field, but it's often not the one that I was just browsing and manually focusing

 

I'm attaching a clean PDF sample that I found on a Swedish site that offers PDF/UA samples (NewFormat AB - OpenFormat - Accessible PDF - PDF/UA - Samples of Accessible DPF Documents - Publish…) 

Thanks in advance! 

Kerry 

[Andrew Downie]

Hi Kerry

I checked the PDF you provided the link to using Acrobat and Firefox.  Results in both were quite good.

The reason your copy is not switching into focus mode is because you have that option unchecked.  Turn on Automatic focus mode for focus changes and NVDA will drop into edit fields when tabbing to them.

With that option unchecked, for me pressing Enter did drop into focus mode.

Checkboxes and radio buttons worked well in either browse mode or focus mode.  The tooltips (I am guessing that is what they have used) were nicer in Acrobat than Firefox for checkboxes and radio buttons.

Andrew

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[Kerry Young]

Hi Andrew, 

Thank you for verifying the document, that helps.  I made the change to the settings, but I am not having the same success with Firefox and Adobe Reader (not the PRO version) on my work computer.  I decided to check my home laptop with Chrome and the form did work much better.  It seems that there are several variables that can impact how PDF and NVDA work together.  I'm going to do more experimentation, but at least now I have confirmed the PDF as one controlled variable!

Thanks again for your response!  

[Andrew Downie]

Kerry, I am astonished that you had any success with Chrome apart from basically knowing what is in the file.  I cannot locate any of the fields with Chrome and not surprised about that.

I should have mentioned that I am using Firefox 148 which, I am pretty sure, is still in beta and is doing lots of clever things to handle tagged PDFs.

Incidentally, my preference is to have audible indication of browse and focus modes turned on, as it is important to know when a switch has happened.

I just had a look at saving options in Acrobat.  It looks as if it hasn't been saved in a manner that allows filling and saving in Acrobat Reader - Reader Extended PDF.  That would explain at least some of your issues.  If I put text into the fields, check checkboxes etc both Acrobat and Firefox ask if I want to save the file. Are you offered that?  If not, my suspicion is confirmed.

Andrew

[Kerry Young]

Hi Andrew, I was using the Adobe extension in Chrome.  Chrome PDF viewer is mostly useless!  

I opened the PDF in Firefox (147.0.3 (64-bit) and entered text but wasn't automatically prompted to save. When I clicked the save button (folder down arrow icon) the window save dialog appeared. 

[Justin Coffin]

Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the update. Chrome's built-in PDF viewer is often limited when it comes to interactive PDFs — especially forms. It doesn't fully support all PDF standards, and when the Adobe extension is involved, the two can sometimes conflict. That's why features like form-filling, saving edits, or triggering save prompts don't always behave reliably in Chrome.
Opening the file in Firefox was a good move. Firefox tends to handle form fields more consistently, so it makes sense that you were able to enter text without issues. Since Firefox doesn't auto-prompt to save, the manual save action you used (the folder-and-arrow icon) triggering the system dialog is exactly what you'd expect there.
If anything else behaves strangely across browsers, feel free to pass it along — PDF viewers vary more than they should.

>>>> 1. Choose Browse mode to scan a PDF with forms
>>>> 2. Land on form field NVDA
>>>> 3. NVDA isn't automatically switching to Focus. (That's fine, I've

>>>> read on forums that can happen.)

>>>> 4. Manually switch to Focus mode with NVDA + space
>>>> 5. The Focus is not set on the field (although in the check boxes
>>>> this often does work)
>>>> 6. Enter does not "activate" the field for entry
>>>> 7. If I tab the cursor moves to a field, but it's often not the one

>>>> that I was just browsing and manually focusing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm attaching a clean PDF sample that I found on a Swedish site that
>>>> offers PDF/UA samples (NewFormat AB - OpenFormat - Accessible PDF -
>>>> PDF/UA - Samples of Accessible DPF Documents - Publish…

>>>> <https://www.newformat.se/openformat/eng/products-services-docs-accessible-pdf-pdfua-examples-of-accessible-pdf-documents-index.html#ACCESSIBLE-PDF-PDFUA-REF-SUITE-SAMPLES>

>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>>
>>>> Kerry
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ***
>>>> Please note: the NVDA project has a Citizen and Contributor Code of
>>>> Conduct.
>>>> NV Access expects that all community members will read and abide by the
>>>> rules set out in this document while participating in this group.
>>>> https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
>>>>
>>>> You can contact the group owners and moderators via
>>>> nvda-user...@nvaccess.org.
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "NVDA Screen Reader Discussion" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to nvda-users+...@nvaccess.org.
>>>> To view this discussion visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/36e0d43e-31a1-4f2a-8de9-ddeb797081fbn%40nvaccess.org

>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/36e0d43e-31a1-4f2a-8de9-ddeb797081fbn%40nvaccess.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .

>>>>
>>>

--
***
Please note: the NVDA project has a Citizen and Contributor Code of Conduct.
NV Access expects that all community members will read and abide by the rules set out in this document while participating in this group.
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md

You can contact the group owners and moderators via nvda-user...@nvaccess.org.
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