Version 2025.3.3 and annoying "document"

[Veli Laasala]

How to stop NVDA saying that fucking "document" on every web page and in
each e-mail message?

Thanks in advance,
Veli

[Benjamin Davies]

I agree with you on that point  

Please mind the Language, I agree with it but the list is public

Ben davies   

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From: nvda-...@nvaccess.org <nvda-...@nvaccess.org> on behalf of Veli Laasala <veli.l...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2026 08:17
To: NVDA Screen Reader Discussion <nvda-...@nvaccess.org>
Subject: [NVDA] Version 2025.3.3 and annoying "document"

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[Steve Nutt]

Oh there are much worse than that.
If you use Outlook, you get "Section 1, Page 1" at the beginning of every Email.
This is why Narrator and JAWS are so much better at this.
NVDA should just turn on Scan Mode and start reading, but it doesn't.
All the best

Steve

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-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-...@nvaccess.org <nvda-...@nvaccess.org> On Behalf Of Veli Laasala
Sent: 17 February 2026 08:18
To: NVDA Screen Reader Discussion <nvda-...@nvaccess.org>
Subject: [NVDA] Version 2025.3.3 and annoying "document"

[Gene Asner]

I'd bet that if you used read to end after opening a message, that would
stop the unwanted speech. I use read to end after I open messages using
Thunderbird because it stops many repetitions of things like the subject
line and immediately begins reading the message text. Also, if you get
messages such as external content has been disabled for your safety or
whatever you hear when a message has external content in Thunderbird,
using read to end after opening a message doesn't allow that message to
be spoken or interrupts it if you use read to end after the message
starts to be spoken. it also prevents the Thunderbird thinks this
message is spam announcement from being read. I suspect that doing the
same in Outlook Classic would stop unwanted speech at the beginnings of
messages.

Gene

[Mujtaba Merchant]

I completely understand the frustration when a screen reader starts announcing things we don't want to hear—it interrupts our workflow and can be incredibly grating. However, I think we need to take a step back and look at how we address these challenges.

Whenever a technical hurdle is reported here, it’s clearly born out of frustration, but venting that frustration doesn't get us to a solution any faster. Instead of just highlighting what's "broken," we should express our position clearly and state exactly what we would like to see changed or implemented.

I also don't believe comparing NVDA to Narrator or JAWS is entirely fair. Every screen reader has its own architecture and logic. There are many features in NVDA that I wish the other two had, and vice versa. Rather than being critical of what NVDA "cannot do" compared to a paid or system-integrated alternative, we should focus on suggesting specific feature improvements to help NVDA evolve.

We need to mature as users of this incredible "gift." The developers and supporters of this project certainly don't take us for "schmucks"—they appreciate constructive, actionable feedback that helps them make the software better for everyone.

Let’s go a bit easier on this list and on NVDA itself. Constructive feedback is the only way this project continues to thrive.

Regarding the "Document" and "Section 1" issue: Requesting other members to put their experiences into account and if you have a solution please share, I am thinking it has something to do with Object Presentation under settings for NVDA.

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[Steve Nutt]

But I don't have to with the other screen readers, that's the whole point. It's just more work.

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[Steve Nutt]

I think expressing the position is already done in these Emails to be fair.
I said that NVDA should handle browse mode better in Email clients.
All the bst

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[Gene Asner]

I checked Object Presentation and I unchecked report object description.
It made no difference. Nothing else looked applicable.

If this bothers you to the point that you don't want to hear the word,
then you can use the speech dictionary so document won't be spoken. But
then, you won't hear it anywhere.

And if it hearing the word bothers you so much, you might consider that
vulgarity in an e-mail message on a public list of this type may be just
as offensive to many people on the list who have certain religious
convictions as you find the word "document." Vulgarity on a list like
this is completely inappropriate.

Gene

[Gene Asner]

You have objected to what I said before. Different screen-readers do
things differently. Adapting to a screen-reader's behavior is the way
to deal with such small differences.

Using read to end becomes second nature probably in not too long a time
for users generally and you don't even notice it. I would rather issue
an extra command automatically and not hear speech I don't want than
not. Unless you have tried it for a number of days to see if it is
really too much work, you can't evaluate whether it is.

Gene

[Sean Randall]

I’m not seeing this in Outlook, Chrome or Firefox   with NVDA (2025.3.3.54605.

I do have most of the things turned off in preferences object presentation and document formatting though.

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[Steve Nutt]

I have tried it several times, I am a trainer, and use all screen readers, so I do know about NVDA's deficiencies.

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[Steve Nutt]

I’ll check that Sean, thanks.

But text messages is where you seem to see it most.

All the best

 

Steve

 

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[Gene Asner]

Several times isn't a good evaluation. You would have to try it for
perhaps two or three days too see if it is really more work or if you
just need to get used to using one additional command per message that
people will probably generally get used to within a few days or sooner.
In just about all e-mail programs I've used, I have used this method
to get more efficiency or in thunderbird, to stop the subject line from
being repeated three times. It appears to me that you are resisting the
practice because you think it's a matter of principle. If you don't
give it a fair try, you can't evaluate it.

Gene

[Veli Laasala]

Apologies, the problem mentioned in the title concerns the NVDA 2026
beta version. I had accidentally installed the beta version in the wrong
directory, where I should have mass storage version of 2025.3.3.

Regards,
Veli

[Mujtaba Merchant]

Verily, I say unto thee: technology works in mysterious ways , though we both know those "mysteries" are usually just cached sins and lingering directories.

Sincerely,

 

Mujtaba Merchant

Bangalore | INDIA

Sent from iPhone ®

 

 

On 17 Feb 2026, at 8:18 PM, Veli Laasala <veli.l...@gmail.com> wrote:

Apologies, the problem mentioned in the title concerns the NVDA 2026 beta version. I had accidentally installed the beta version in the wrong directory, where I should have mass storage version of 2025.3.3.

Regards,
Veli

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[David Mellor]

When I read that the 2026.1 release would auto-read focused content, I
was hoping that this was what it meant: that it would auto-read as if
NVDA-cursor down had been hit.

Sometimes I'll do this when opening emails and sometimes I won't. I do
consider it to be a hassle.

If it turns out to be a long-ish email or contains something that I need
to pause on then I naturally wish I'd done the NVDA-cursor down because
then I need to scroll down and find my place again.

David

[Gene Asner]

evidently, your e-mail program doesn't work with NVDA to read entire
messages automatically.

What keys do you have set for read to end? I have caps lock set to be
an NVDA key along with the default keys, both inserts. I intensely
dislike using either numpad with down arrow. However, I find caps lock
down arrow to be very comfortable and convenient. If you haven't tried
that combination and you don't like insert down arrow, you might not
mind using read to end regularly with capslock down arrow.

Gene

[David Mellor]

It does read emails automatically but not with cursor movement such that
when the reading is interrupted the focus doesn't land in the correct
place.

Yes, I do find Insert (6 keys) cursor-down to be just enough hassle that
whilst it's very commonly used, I'll often skip it with emails.

I'd prefer that the auto-read took the cursor with it as with
NVDA-cursor down.
 David

[Joseph Lee]

Hi all,

A huge clarification:

In Outlook 365 and other places, NVDA may say "document" because it is the role of this control. Internally, Outlook borrows code from Word 365, and for text messages (and some HTML messages), Outlook will display the message as a Word (or almost Word like) document. You can "silence" (in quotes for a reason) "document" announcement by creating a speech dictionary entry that will silence the role announcement, but then this means you won't hear "document" form other places.

I put "silence" in quotes because you are effectively silencing the "role text" announced by NVDA. The speech dictionary entry (whatever it might be) will NOT extend to actual role definition inside NVDA AND the "document" role definition coming form the app you are interacting with.

For some, my note should sound familiar - I talked about this exact same thing on a different NVDA community space several years ago (one such note was posted back in December 2022).

As for automatic say all upon opening messages in Outlook: it won't work in Outlook, particularly text messages because email messages, especially text messages, are not really seen as a browse mode document. It might be possible to "transform" text email messages into a browse mode document thereby telling NVDA to perform an automatic say all. However, not all messages in Outlook are seen this way both by Outlook itself (because Outlook labels the type of email message content (text or HTML)) and NVDA.

Cheers,

Joseph

[Gene Asner]

In the new Outlook, it appears to me, from the playing around I've done with the program, that that is no longer true.  As far as I can tell, all mail is opened in Browse mode.  What you are describing is evidently how Outlook Classic works.  I don't have that program.  

Here again, if you don't use read to end and let the message start to read automatically, every time you open a message, you hear application message body before the reading of every message.  If you don't want to hear this unendingly as well as saving the wasted time, using read to end very soon after the message opens results in the message being read with no verbosity before that.  I don't recall any e-mail program I've used that didn't benefit by using read to end after opening a message, though I may have forgotten something like Outlook Express.  I'm not sure if it benefited or not, it's been so long since I've used it.

Gene

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[joseph....@gmail.com]

Hi,

Right – the behavior I described is applicable to Outlook 365 Classic. The behavior Gene describes is for Outlook New and that’s because for lal intents and purposes, the new Outlook is essentially a glorified web application.

Cheers,

Joseph

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