An instruction should be added to the NVDA Store web site
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Gene Asner
Nov 27, 2025, 12:37:49 PM (3 days ago) Nov 27
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I've looked at the site and I use the find command a lot in browsing.
In my opinion, the find command is one of the most powerful and most
undertaught and underused commands in browsing.
All add-ons are listed on one page, which is fine, but there should be a
sentence or two telling users that all add-ons are listed on the current
page and to use the screen-reader find command to find something. I
used the word tray in a search and found the system tray add-on
immediately. Since the find command is so undertaught, it should not be
assumed that users will use it on the site.
Gene
In my opinion, the find command is one of the most powerful and most
undertaught and underused commands in browsing.
All add-ons are listed on one page, which is fine, but there should be a
sentence or two telling users that all add-ons are listed on the current
page and to use the screen-reader find command to find something. I
used the word tray in a search and found the system tray add-on
immediately. Since the find command is so undertaught, it should not be
assumed that users will use it on the site.
Gene
Quentin Christensen
Nov 27, 2025, 7:26:01 PM (3 days ago) Nov 27
to nvda-...@nvaccess.org
Hi Gene,
This is the first iteration of that page, so there will likely be improvements in future - and a search function could be such an improvement.
Re find not being taught, there is a topic on it in Basic Training when working with text, and another later in the same module on searching for text within a web page. So I hope people are aware of the command by the time they work through the module?
Kind regards
Quentin
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Bhavya shah
Nov 28, 2025, 8:51:08 PM (2 days ago) Nov 28
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On an unrelated note, I wanted to affirm the characterization of the screen reader find as an underrated feature. Maybe a decade ago, I am fairly sure it was one of Gene’s messages that encouraged me to try using it actively when browsing the web. I use it so often now that I was recently inspired to swap the keystrokes for reporting formatting (NVDA+f) and for the NVDA find (NVDA+Ctrl+f) so as to bring the latter down to a snappier two-key combination.
Warmly,
Gene Asner
Nov 29, 2025, 1:47:22 AM (yesterday) Nov 29
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I'll comment here, but since this is off topic, I don't want to encourage a lot of discussion.
That's good.
From the teaching material I've seen, and it isn't that much, but this is consistent on it. the find command is very undertaught. Approaching web pages with thought is also undertaught and the two are related. If a site changes a download link to a download button, many blind people, it appears to me, don't know how to use the site when, if they used find to search for "download", they would be back using it just about immediately.
I would like to make this an issue where instructors change how these things are taught. I'm not sure how that might be effectively done.
And to make this on topic, does the NVDA material emphasize the find command?
Gene
Quentin Christensen
Nov 29, 2025, 3:59:25 AM (yesterday) Nov 29
to nvda-...@nvaccess.org
Hi Gene,
Quentin
From your wording, I'm guessing the material you are referring to (which doesn't cover the Find command well) is NOT our Basic Training? (That's fine, I just wanted to check - as if you were saying that our material doesn't do a good job at it, then it would encourage us to review it. As noted previously in the thread, we do cover using find both in searching for text, and in searching on the web.
I'm currently working on reviewing our Outlook module, and will go through Basic training next - I've made a note to look at how it covers find in any case.
Kind regards
Quentin
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/d/msgid/nvda-users/2d234b05-301c-4ddc-9cf9-34040d853244%40gmail.com.
Gene Asner
Nov 29, 2025, 6:50:56 AM (yesterday) Nov 29
to nvda-...@nvaccess.org
I haven't seen the NVDA basic material but I doubt the things I'll use
as examples are taught in many cases or emphasized.
For one thing the Internet appears to be changing in that it appears
customary now to have many, perhaps five or eight or more lines of text
on a lot of sites between the title of an article and the article. A
method to move close to or very close to the article text is to search
for the word "by" on a lot of sites. ON one site, searching for the
word copy will get you there. This illustrates the importance of
looking for what I call markers, reliable small pieces of text, one word
usually, to get somewhere efficiently.
Also, when searching much of the time, only the first four letters of
what is being searched for need be used And will get you where you want
to be if you are searching for a word that isn't expected to appear much
on a page. For example, if I go to a new radio site and I want to
listen to the station, I'll search for list. This involves why I say
that the links list shouldn't be used on unfamiliar pages. What if the
link says click to listen or some other wording that doesn't begin with
l. I saw someone who appears to be a competent Internet user, fukmble
around for perhaps three or four minutes looking for something because a
site changed when using search would have taken him there immediately,
once he found his old links list way no longer worked because the site
changed.
If I want to find a contact link, I'll search for cont. If I want to
search for an editorial link to that section, I'll search for edito.
That time, I use five letters because, there may be other edit words
before editorial.
Also, using search may also avoid what I call micromemorization of web
pages. Instead of remembering that you use heading level 1 to get to x
and then heading level 3 to get to y on a certain page, search may get
you there efficiently and if you memorize such things on page after
page, this may make it less burdensome to use pages efficiently. This
is somewhat a matter of preference, perhaps quite a bit but I'm saying
it should be taught as an alternative.
If the basic material from NVDA doesn't include such discussion, or go
injto and teach the links list in detail and repeatedly use it while
paying little attention to the find command, you might consider adding
and changing these things.
That's another complaint I have, that instructional material seems to
start teaching the links list and using it extensively long before the
student becomes comfortable using the actual web page. This removes the
person from the document, is a completely artificial interface, and
slows the person's working with and learning to think about the web page
as a document or as something to be worked with using logic and inference.
Gene
On 11/29/2025 2:59 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
> Hi Gene,
>
> From your wording, I'm guessing the material you are referring to
> (which doesn't cover the Find command well) is NOT our Basic Training?
> (That's fine, I just wanted to check - as if you were saying that our
> material doesn't do a good job at it, then it would encourage us to
> review it. As noted previously in the thread, we do cover using find
> both in searching for text, and in searching on the web.
>
> I'm currently working on reviewing our Outlook module, and will go
> through Basic training next - I've made a note to look at how it covers
> find in any case.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Quentin
>
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2025 at 5:47 PM Gene Asner <gsa...@gmail.com
> <mailto:gsa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> __
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>
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> User group: _https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/g/nvda-users
> <https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/g/nvda-users>_
> Other groups: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/Connect
> <https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/Connect>
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as examples are taught in many cases or emphasized.
For one thing the Internet appears to be changing in that it appears
customary now to have many, perhaps five or eight or more lines of text
on a lot of sites between the title of an article and the article. A
method to move close to or very close to the article text is to search
for the word "by" on a lot of sites. ON one site, searching for the
word copy will get you there. This illustrates the importance of
looking for what I call markers, reliable small pieces of text, one word
usually, to get somewhere efficiently.
Also, when searching much of the time, only the first four letters of
what is being searched for need be used And will get you where you want
to be if you are searching for a word that isn't expected to appear much
on a page. For example, if I go to a new radio site and I want to
listen to the station, I'll search for list. This involves why I say
that the links list shouldn't be used on unfamiliar pages. What if the
link says click to listen or some other wording that doesn't begin with
l. I saw someone who appears to be a competent Internet user, fukmble
around for perhaps three or four minutes looking for something because a
site changed when using search would have taken him there immediately,
once he found his old links list way no longer worked because the site
changed.
If I want to find a contact link, I'll search for cont. If I want to
search for an editorial link to that section, I'll search for edito.
That time, I use five letters because, there may be other edit words
before editorial.
Also, using search may also avoid what I call micromemorization of web
pages. Instead of remembering that you use heading level 1 to get to x
and then heading level 3 to get to y on a certain page, search may get
you there efficiently and if you memorize such things on page after
page, this may make it less burdensome to use pages efficiently. This
is somewhat a matter of preference, perhaps quite a bit but I'm saying
it should be taught as an alternative.
If the basic material from NVDA doesn't include such discussion, or go
injto and teach the links list in detail and repeatedly use it while
paying little attention to the find command, you might consider adding
and changing these things.
That's another complaint I have, that instructional material seems to
start teaching the links list and using it extensively long before the
student becomes comfortable using the actual web page. This removes the
person from the document, is a completely artificial interface, and
slows the person's working with and learning to think about the web page
as a document or as something to be worked with using logic and inference.
Gene
On 11/29/2025 2:59 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
> Hi Gene,
>
> From your wording, I'm guessing the material you are referring to
> (which doesn't cover the Find command well) is NOT our Basic Training?
> (That's fine, I just wanted to check - as if you were saying that our
> material doesn't do a good job at it, then it would encourage us to
> review it. As noted previously in the thread, we do cover using find
> both in searching for text, and in searching on the web.
>
> I'm currently working on reviewing our Outlook module, and will go
> through Basic training next - I've made a note to look at how it covers
> find in any case.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Quentin
>
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2025 at 5:47 PM Gene Asner <gsa...@gmail.com
>
> __
>> <https://www.instagram.com/mynameisnotjavier> | Website
>> <https://bhavyashahcomedy.com/>
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Quentin Christensen
>> Training and Support Manager
>>
>> NV Access
>> www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Quentin Christensen
>> Training and Support Manager
>>
>> NV Access
>>
>> Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>> <https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/>
>> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
>> <https://certification.nvaccess.org/>
>> Subscribe to email updates (blog, new versions, etc):
>> https://eepurl.com/iuVyjo <https://eepurl.com/iuVyjo>
>> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
>> <https://certification.nvaccess.org/>
>> Subscribe to email updates (blog, new versions, etc):
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> NV Access expects that all community members will read and abide by
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> NV Access
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> --
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> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> NV Access
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Gene Asner
Nov 29, 2025, 6:56:18 AM (yesterday) Nov 29
to nvda-...@nvaccess.org
To clarify, when I talk about four letters, I'm talking about markers.
I don't have a rule for general searches, which often are done with a
number of words.
Gene
I don't have a rule for general searches, which often are done with a
number of words.
Gene
Andrew Downie
Nov 29, 2025, 11:04:30 PM (19 hours ago) Nov 29
to nvda-...@nvaccess.org
A couple of comments on the NVDA Add-On Store website.
1. A column with the description of each add-on would be good.
2. Unless it is too subtle for me, add-ons seem to be listed in no particular order. Under most circumstances I am a big fan of alphabetical order.
But I really like the concept.
Andrew
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