EMAIL BALLOT 20210616-01 DISAFFILIATE THE LPNH

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Caryn Ann Harlos

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Jun 16, 2021, 3:19:56 AM6/16/21
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We have an electronic mail ballot.

Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 23, 2021 at 11:59:59 pm Pacific time.

Sponsor:  Bishop-Henchman

=============================================


Motion: To disaffiliate the New Hampshire Libertarian Party organization of which Mr. Pelletier is interim chair based on their violating the Statement of Principles.

=============================================

THRESHOLD REQUIRED: 3/4 of the entire national committee


You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JcPiKpaypOO5v-sChhApYXK0QrZlMbhOyAwFbflEAck/edit#gid=1439161868.  Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for verification. You can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the bottom of the sheet.

Please notify me of any discrepancies.


   In Liberty, 

LNC Secretary | secr...@lp.org | 561.523.2250

Caryn Ann Harlos

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Jun 16, 2021, 3:20:22 AM6/16/21
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NO.

   In Liberty, 

LNC Secretary | secr...@lp.org | 561.523.2250

Ken Moellman

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Jun 16, 2021, 3:23:02 AM6/16/21
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I forgot to get this in during the meeting:

I condemn bigotry as repugnant and irrational.
I condemn the initiation of force, and the threats of physical violence.


I vote NO.


I'm taking a break for a few days. I'm exhausted. Let me know if any other votes come up. Otherwise, I'll see you all Friday night.


Ken Moellman
Libertarian National Committee
Vice Chair

Joshua Smith

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Jun 16, 2021, 3:24:14 AM6/16/21
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This motion is out of order as no cause has been presented. 


Article 5: section 6, The National Committee shall have the power to revoke the status of any affiliate party, for cause,
by a vote of 3/4 of the entire National Committee. A motion to revoke the status of an affiliate
party for cause must specify the nature of the cause for revocation.

Caryn Ann Harlos

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Jun 16, 2021, 3:24:29 AM6/16/21
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You forgot to say cancer is bad and puppies are cute.  

   In Liberty, 

LNC Secretary | secr...@lp.org | 561.523.2250

Joshua Smith

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Jun 16, 2021, 3:27:07 AM6/16/21
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We need specific cause for dissafiliating. A vague "violating the statement of principles" is not going to cut it. 

franci...@lp.org

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Jun 16, 2021, 3:54:48 AM6/16/21
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I vote No.

 

There has been a mountain of subjective evidence presented against LPNH, much of which is troubling. This very evening it was apparent that people were angry from the EC meeting. Despite the ever increasing opinions on both sides that have been offered to the LNC I find that the Statement of Principles, although the bedrock of our party, is distinctly difficult to arbitrate because it is written as a philosophical document and not a instructive text. There are many secondary tenants this party has that have been derived from the statement of principles, but they are not actually explicit within the statement itself.

 

This situation is further exacerbated by the events surrounding the formation of a second political organization in New Hampshire. If that had not happened it would have been easier for us to monitor the situation in New Hampshire and help work with the executive committee that was elected in March of this year. That didn’t happen.

 

In no way do I see that we should set the precedent of condoning bad actions of rouge actors in any position by determining an outcome most favorable to them. Disaffiliating New Hampshire would do exactly that. It would send the message that affiliates must comply with this body’s interpretation or else they will be replaced. Those advocating for take overs also share in that thought process. Nobody in this party nor our affiliates should have that perspective. That is not how we grow this party.

 

In Chicago, and to the many responses I authored to the Contact the LNC forms, I stressed one thing: Coalitions. That is how we win elections and grow this party. We need to realize that there are evil people in this world, and, yes, even in this party. Disaffiliating a duly elected board is the stark opposite of that. Find they ways to make it work; the middle ground so to speak. Don’t perform surgery with a machete.

 

 

Best Regards,

 

Francis Wendt

LNC Region 1 Representitive

406.595.5111

   In Liberty, 

Image removed by sender.

LNC Secretary | secr...@lp.org | 561.523.2250

~WRD1089.jpg

Richard Longstreth

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Jun 16, 2021, 7:09:03 AM6/16/21
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I vote no.

I would be in favor of revoking CRM access to both while this is sorted, but disaffiliation is a step way too far in the wrong direction.

Richard Longstreth
At Large Representative
Libertarian National Committee
richard.l...@lp.org
931.538.9300

Sent from my Mobile Device

Joshua Smith

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Jun 16, 2021, 7:22:58 AM6/16/21
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I just want to reiterate that this motion is out of order. 

Laura Ebke

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Jun 16, 2021, 7:38:15 AM6/16/21
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No.

Laura Ebke

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 16, 2021, at 6:22 AM, Joshua Smith <joshua...@lp.org> wrote:



Susan Hogarth

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Jun 16, 2021, 8:05:58 AM6/16/21
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No. 

When this motion fails we will have de facto recognized the elected board as the affiliate (since the Chair moved to *dis*affiliate them), and Ms. Jarvis’ usurped control of LPNH assets in the name of her wholly created-in-her-image entity will be ended. 

I urge members to confine their remarks to their particular ballot and not clutter the thread with argument and back-and-forth. 

I am curious as to how objections are handled in such a situation, but I don’t think the discussion of the objection should be part of the balloting thread. 

Susan Hogarth 
Region 5 Representative 

On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 3:19 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <secr...@lp.org> wrote:
--
Susan Hogarth
919-906-2106
Region 5 Representative

John Phillips

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Jun 16, 2021, 8:15:59 AM6/16/21
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Mr Smith, I believe you are correct. However for expediency's sake I would encourage you to simply vote no on those grounds (and more if you like). That way we can have this decided before our next meeting.

 If you feel further action is warranted you can of course do so as well, I just think on this particular matter timeliness is important.

Thank you.
John Phillips
Region 6 Representative
217-412-5973
John Phillips
Region 6 Representative
217-412-5973
John Phillips
Region 6 Representative
217-412-5973

Caryn Ann Harlos

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Jun 16, 2021, 8:31:31 AM6/16/21
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I withdraw my vote until the chair deals with the properly noted objection.

Members have requested I join in insisting on proper grounds.
--

Joshua Smith

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Jun 16, 2021, 8:31:39 AM6/16/21
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I will unequivocally vote no, but would like to also point out that by our Chair putting this out, he has already recognized that the only affiliate in NH is the one in which Mr. Peltier is the Chairman. This means that his vote to not give them back their rightful property is even more egregious, and I hope the members of this board will take that in to account. 


Thank you,
Joshua 

Caryn Ann Harlos

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Jun 16, 2021, 8:32:23 AM6/16/21
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Oh it’s not an objection it’s a POINT OF ORDER and all voting should cease in respect of the POINT OF ORDER.

Joshua Smith

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Jun 16, 2021, 8:35:26 AM6/16/21
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I withdrawl my question. Thank you. 

Tim Hagan

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Jun 16, 2021, 8:40:16 AM6/16/21
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I vote no.

Tim Hagan
Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee 
--
Tim Hagan
Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee

Caryn Ann Harlos

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Jun 16, 2021, 8:46:57 AM6/16/21
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I don’t.  I raise the point of order.

The affiliate has a right to know and the chair needs to have the courage to say.

I am going to speak with them today since neither the chair nor their own regional rep apparently has.
--

Caryn Ann Harlos

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Jun 16, 2021, 8:47:24 AM6/16/21
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There is a game going on here and I don’t appreciate being toyed with.

John Phillips

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Jun 16, 2021, 8:52:48 AM6/16/21
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Mr Chair, Joe, 

I understand your feelings.  Both from previous events and many of the comments surrounding last night's meeting, including by people on this body.

I sympathize, and to a point agree.

However, absent specific charges and evidence thereof this motion is ill formed and ill conceived even if Mr Smith is incorrect.

We scream and yell everytime the police shoot someone that police are not judge, jury, and executioner that due process matters.  We scream and yell about due process around civil asset forfeiture.  We scream and yell about due process every time government takes action against an individual without it.

All we have now is a very generic charge with no evidence of anything beyond he said/she said, and a series of, in my opinion, very bad social media content.

This does not meet the needs of the motion or the requirements under our bylaws for disaffiliation.  Most importantly it denies members of their due process. A thing this party stands firmly against, even for things or people we may not like.

I have said many times that standing on principles and fighting against things the need fighting is a great thing, but turning into what you are fighting against turns victory into loss.

This motion if passed in this way would make hypocrites of our entire party.  In my opinion it may even be in itself what is listed as the reason for the motion, a violation of our Statement of Principles, and turning us into what we fight against.

It goes against heartfelt request for investigation by huge swathes of our membership.

It also poisons the well on further investigation which may or may not have found cause for this action in the future, and taints any potential action.

As such, despite despising that social media, being absolutely disgusted by the statements from individuals surrounding this, and agreeing that the accusations from others - IF PROVEN - would warrant this and more, I must vote NO.

I am going to go mourn what we have become and seriously consider my continued involvement. For this, and because I truly do sympathize with you on the other side, and both make me wonder if these trends continue if I can continue to call this party the party of principle and home.

Respectfully

John Phillips
Region 6 Representative
217-412-5973

Steven Nekhaila

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Jun 16, 2021, 9:11:38 AM6/16/21
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I vote hell NO.

I have been on the LNC for 5 years, next year will be my 6th, this whole situation, the usurpation of the LPNH rules, the usurpation of the LNC’s authority, the ends justify the means action taking, and the lack of accountability by our Chair make this the single most egregious case of corruption I have seen within the Libertarian Party.

I am shocked and dismayed that this was allowed to happen by someone I quite frankly least expected to carry it out. 

True leadership involves working with your lieutenants and with a team, true leadership involves speaking up and explaining your position, true leadership involves buy in, what I have seen is more akin to a third world dictatorship than a democratically elected leader.

JBH, do not pretend to be neutral when you can not take accountability for your actions, you’ve acted and those actions have repercussions which no amount of saving face can reverse. You had the opportunity to work with the LNC by explaining your position and making it right. Now, the LNC must act and take accountability for your actions as well as the actions of others as true leaders must do.

As such, I hold myself responsible to do what is right and 1) reverse the damaging decisions of a Chair who has usurped the authority of the board, 2) make LPNH whole again by restoring all data, assets, and legal status to the original affiliate, 3) attempt to restore affiliate faith in our ability to be good stewards of their assets by lobbying for explicit protections in our rules and 4) condemning the Chair for his rogue and biased actions which benefit a small cabal of ideologically motivated individuals whom conspired to mutiny against dully elected Party officers.

Sincerely,

Steven Nekhaila
Region 2 Representative

Impotentes defendere liberatum non possunt
Those without power cannot defend freedom

From: Caryn Ann Harlos <secr...@lp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 8:47:11 AM
To: lnc-bu...@lp.org <lnc-bu...@lp.org>
Subject: Re: [lnc-business] EMAIL BALLOT 20210616-01 DISAFFILIATE THE LPNH
 

Caryn Ann Harlos

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Jun 16, 2021, 9:20:02 AM6/16/21
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Two regional have been asked to bring a motion to remove the chair and so far have refused (though it’s been less than a day) but I don’t want this to be buried.

Dustin Nanna

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Jun 16, 2021, 10:58:02 AM6/16/21
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Absolutely not. No

Dustin Nanna

Region 3 Representative, Libertarian National Committee

740-816-9805

Tucker Coburn

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Jun 16, 2021, 11:08:05 AM6/16/21
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I find this comment very odd. As expressed to the single state in question in my region of 8, I have zero intention to bring a motion to remove the chair. If any other member of this body would like to bring such a motion - even if not a regional rep, they are absolutely welcome to.

--Tucker Coburn

P.S. As for my vote on this matter, I am still thinking. I am hoping to catch up on all my other emails regarding this matter before I head to work and if not still completely inundated I will vote this late late evening.

Tucker Coburn
LNC Region 8 Representative

Valerie Sarwark

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Jun 16, 2021, 11:46:42 AM6/16/21
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Mr. Chair,

I believe this motion to be out of order and urge the chair to reconsider after hearing different perspectives and for cooler heads to prevail. We cannot act so hastily.

Additionally, the grounds for voting on disaffiliation are not clear to members of the board which will inevitably create unnecessary work for the Judicial Committee. If we are going to act, let's do it right.

Mr. Smith is right with his assessment earlier in this email thread.

In Liberty,
Valerie

Valerie A. Sarwark
LNC At-Large Representative
Affiliate Support Committee Chair
Donate to the Affiliate Support Fund today!

Caryn Ann Harlos

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Jun 16, 2021, 2:23:47 PM6/16/21
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Ms. Sarwark, please join in my appeal.


   In Liberty, 

LNC Secretary | secr...@lp.org | 561.523.2250

TJ Ferreira

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Jun 16, 2021, 5:54:52 PM6/16/21
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TL;DR: NAY


As a regional alternate, my vote will likely not be counted. However, so far this term, the LNC has graciously allowed alternates to participate in debate and therefore with my vote of nay, I also wish to enter the following into the record of debate.


First and foremost, I’m not a lawyer and I’ve never played one on TV. Below I present my understanding, opinion, and a proposed strategy for the LNC.


Here is how I understand the current series of events - my proposed strategy and opinion assumes that this series of events is factual and substantially complete. As time will most likely prove that assumption wrong, my opinion and proposal may change to reflect my new understanding.


While most of the names of individuals have been made public through email and social media, I will refrain from using names and will instead use titles/positions. I would like to say this is out of a sense of duty and decorum, but it is mainly out of laziness to not have to double check that each name used is in the public space since I’m also privy to non-public conversations.

 - For the LPNH chair which was elected at convention in March - I shall use the term “LPNH Elected Chair”

 - For the LPNH vice-chair which was elected at convention in March and subsequently appointed to acting chair by the LPNH Executive Committee (EC) in June - I shall use the term “LPNH Elected Vice-Chair”


Events:

1) The messaging attributed to LPNH was/is being criticized/praised for a variety of reasons.

2) An individual was removed from the LPNH by the LPNH EC.

3) The LPNH Elected Chair asked the LNC Chair for a letter stating that the LPNH Elected Chair was the chair of the organization which was the sole NH affiliate of the National Libertarian Party.

4) The LNC Chair provided such a letter.

5) The LPNH Elected Chair removed access for most (all but themself?) from the CiviCRM/WordPress applications that are hosted by the LNC. As far as I know, no action was taken by the LNC volunteers or staff to assist with this action.

6) The LPNH Elected Chair removed access for most (all but themself?) from the LPNH social media accounts.

7) The LPNH Elected Chair created a blog post explaining the actions taken (https://lpnh.org/2021/06/12/change-in-new-hampshire-libertarian-party/) which included a link to the above mentioned LNC chair’s letter (https://lpnh.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2021/06/NH-Letter.pdf).

8) A bunch of people did and said a bunch of things online that were rather unproductive, but it was probably healthy to get some of that all out in the open.

9) The LNC called for three meetings and created a motion to amend the Policy Manual to allow for calling more meetings even faster.

10) The LPNH EC held an emergency meeting. During this meeting they suspended the LPNH Elected Chair thereby making the LPNH Elected Vice-Chair the acting chair of LPNH.

11) At the first of three LNC meetings (the LNC EC meeting on Tuesday 6/15), a motion was presented for vote “The Executive Committee of the LNC continues to recognize the LPNH affiliate that held a convention in March of 2021 and directs the turnover of access to LPNH joint assets in the possession of the LNC to that committee, unless and until such time as the full LNC takes action to disaffiliate that committee in accordance with our bylaws.”

12) That motion failed 3-3-1.

13) The LNC EC meeting ended with no action taken.

14) A motion was put to the LNC through email from the LNC Chair: “To disaffiliate the New Hampshire Libertarian Party organization of which Mr. Pelletier is interim chair based on their violating the Statement of Principles.”


Now my opinion.

While I will not assume the intent of the LNC Chair, I can say that I was contemplating asking someone to put forward a similar motion and I will discuss my intention for such a motion.


Sadly, the LNC finds itself in three distinct roles:

A) As the service provider for the CiviCRM/WordPress applications it can turn off and turn on access to the services provided. In that role, it should only make the services available to those who can prove they are the authorized representative(s) of the sole recognized affiliate for a state.

B) As the entity which can provide documentation that an affiliate is a sole recognized affiliate for a state.

C) As the entity which charters state-level affiliates and can revoke the status of any affiliate party.


Right now, two groups are claiming to be the sole LPNH affiliate. One is the LPNH Elected Chair with documentation from the LNC Chair claiming to be the sole affiliate. The other is the LPNH Elected Vice-Chair with documentation from the LPNH EC that the LPNH Elected Chair has been suspended.


However, according to our bylaws, the LNC can only recognize one entity as the LPNH affiliate. There are a handful of ways to rectify this problem:

a) Charter the LPNH Elected Chair Organization as the LPNH Affiliate

b) Charter the LPNH Elected Vice-Chair Organization as the LPNH Affiliate

c) Charter the LPNH Elected Chair Organization as the LPNH Affiliate and revoke the status of the LPNH Elected Vice-Chair Organization

d) Charter the LPNH Elected Vice-Chair Organization as the LPNH Affiliate and revoke the status of the LPNH Elected Chair Organization

e) Revoke the status the LPNH Elected Chair Organization and the LPNH Elected Vice-Chair Organization

f) Revoke the status the LPNH Elected Chair Organization

g) Revoke the status the LPNH Elected Vice-Chair Organization

h) Fail to revoke the status the LPNH Elected Chair Organization

i) Fail to revoke the status the LPNH Elected Vice-Chair Organization


Of all those options, the last (option i) is the best and here is why:


a) The LPNH Elected Chair Organization has not requested status and therefore our bylaws do not allow us to charter them as the affiliate

b) Merely chartering the LPNH Elected Vice-Chair Organization as the LPNH Affiliate would not fix the issue that two entities are claiming such status

c) The LPNH Elected Chair Organization has not requested status and therefore our bylaws do not allow us to charter them as the affiliate

d) This could work, but a motion with two clauses could be divided and therefore may not result in the intended outcome

e) This is a viable solution, but not desired as it would set everything back by months in New Hampshire

f) This removes the double claim problem, but it doesn’t affirm the remaining entity’s status

g) This removes the double claim problem, but it doesn’t affirm the remaining entity’s status

h) Failing to revoke the status of an affiliate both affirms that they were the existing affiliate and retains that designation… which in turn invalidates the other’s claim

i) Failing to revoke the status of an affiliate both affirms that they were the existing affiliate and retains that designation… which in turn invalidates the other’s claim

 

Therefore, based on the events presented above and my subsequent opinion that the LPNH Elected Vice-Chair Organization is the true affiliate, I would have put forth the exact same motion as the LNC Chair, and I would have voted Nay on my own motion. I would be prohibited from speaking against my motion, but I'm sure I would have found a clever way to make my intentions known. Because sometimes voting down a motion is a better solution than approving one or more motions.

 

Once that motion fails, then the LNC can provide documentation to the LPNH Elected Vice-Chair Organization and the LNC can provide access to the authorized representative(s) from that organization. The LPNH Elected Vice-Chair Organization should also be able to take that documentation to other third parties and show they should be given access to any other resources to which they are entitled.

 

Finally, I have three pieces of unsolicited advice:

1) I suggest that the LPNH and other affiliates update their policy manuals to state who are the authorized representative(s) to access the LNC-hosted applications, social media, and other 3rd-party services. Such documentation could help in similar future situations.

2) I suggest the LPNH EC and LPNH Elected Chair find a path forward where both groups rescind their actions from the last week. Ideally, the chair’s suspension is lifted and the chair’s proclamations to the status of the party and its elected officials are rescinded. I understand that such forgiveness on either side may not be tenable, but I hope as leaders you can find a way to sell it and show that a state affiliate can fix its own mess if the LNC and others give it time.

3) I suggest the LNC refrain from conducting an investigation. The results of which will not have any impact on healing the rifts in our party. Instead, I suggest we spend that time and energy coming up with focused areas where we all agree and trying some A-B messaging in those areas to see what works.

 

This is a year we should be celebrating together to recognize the 50 years we have struggled to make a difference and we should be looking forward to the exponential difference we will make in the future. This party is and always will be my home. I hope that all my fellow roommates can find a way to coexist so we can grow and continue to make a difference.

 

To stretch the metaphor: if you are in my house of liberty, you are not my enemy. I don’t need to agree with every notion you have, and I don’t ask that you agree with all my notions, but we do have to work together. If one of us is bringing around someone who is thinking about becoming a roommate or paying some of our rent, maybe we don’t throw our dirty laundry in their face when they enter the door. Likewise, when some of us are having a party, the rest of us don’t need to call the cops because the noise is too loud.

 

The Libertarian Party is full of some of the smartest people I know. We can figure this out – together.

 

Thank you for your time,

Tim “TJ” Ferreira

LNC Region 4 Alternate Representative

John Phillips

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Jun 16, 2021, 5:59:34 PM6/16/21
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I love you TJ.


John Phillips
Region 6 Representative
217-412-5973

TJ Ferreira

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Jun 16, 2021, 6:01:09 PM6/16/21
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Decorum Mr. Phillips. :)
-TJ

Erik Raudsep

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Jun 16, 2021, 6:08:16 PM6/16/21
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I'm trying to figure out are we waiting on the appeal or are we still voting?

John Phillips

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Jun 16, 2021, 6:10:40 PM6/16/21
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Just vote in case the appeal fails


John Phillips
Region 6 Representative
217-412-5973

Erik Raudsep

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Jun 16, 2021, 6:12:56 PM6/16/21
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In that case I vote no

Richard Longstreth

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Jun 16, 2021, 6:14:11 PM6/16/21
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Everyone please read Mr Ferreira's entire opinion. Very well thought out. Amazing actually. Thank you.


Richard Longstreth
At Large Representative
Libertarian National Committee
richard.l...@lp.org
931.538.9300

Sent from my Mobile Device

Jeff Hewitt

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Jun 16, 2021, 6:57:06 PM6/16/21
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I vote no.  Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Rep

Tucker Coburn

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Jun 17, 2021, 1:53:00 AM6/17/21
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I have thought a lot about this vote. I see this as being completely disconnected from the actions of Ms. Jarvis. I am not here, and am not anywhere, voting to affiliate Ms. Jarvis’ organization for several reasons not relevant here. The question here is whether or not the New Hampshire party has broken our Statement of Principles in an egregious enough manner to be disaffiliated.

 

I think that this motion is slightly premature, in that I would prefer a formal investigation before having to vote on matters such as this. However, I understand why this was brought forward now, as many members of this body have conducted their own “investigations” and a formal investigation seems unlikely.

 

Further, this late evening I found myself considering the political implications of my vote on my activity in the party. The motion has already more than failed anyways. But I’m a Libertarian and I vote on my principles, not on my politics.

 

The New Hampshire affiliate has repeatedly and egregiously trampled over our Statement of Principles in recent weeks, specifically our statement affirming the right to life. The body has also trampled over our Platform. At the Chicago LNC meeting Mr. Valente brought up his concerns with the messaging and I believe it was Ms. Adams that pointed out that our only official course of action available is disaffiliation. The New Hampshire body had been made aware of the nature of its communications violating the Statement of Principles yet continued to do so.

 

For these reasons I have concluded that I must vote YES on disaffiliation of the New Hampshire Libertarian Party.

 

With Liberty,

--Tucker Coburn

Caryn Ann Harlos

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Jun 17, 2021, 4:02:59 AM6/17/21
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I would ask Mr. Coburn how, if the affiliate is not disaffiliated, he thinks he can serve as their representative?  And if he asked for opinion of the rest of region 8 on this vote?  He can refuse to answer of course, but these questions are very fair.  I used to be a region 1 representative, and I cannot imagine ever voting to disaffiliate a state I was entrusted to represent, and if I ever did, if that motion failed, I would immediately have tendered my resignation as there is no way I could represent that affiliate any longer.

   In Liberty, 

LNC Secretary | secr...@lp.org | 561.523.2250

Caryn Ann Harlos

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Jun 17, 2021, 4:08:48 AM6/17/21
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I have thoughts on TJ's message as well and there is an issue in it that is a fatal flaw in one avenue of reasoning, but that is not the reason for voting no which of course is the only ethical vote (in my opinion) here.  I will save the flaw for my discussion on what needs to be done to clean our own house after NH has been made whole.

   In Liberty, 

LNC Secretary | secr...@lp.org | 561.523.2250

Caryn Ann Harlos

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Jun 17, 2021, 4:20:51 AM6/17/21
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I would like to hear from the Region 8 alternate on this vote.  Does he agree with Mr. Coburn?  

   In Liberty, 

LNC Secretary | secr...@lp.org | 561.523.2250

Jared Hall

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Jun 17, 2021, 4:37:29 AM6/17/21
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Madame Secretary,

The Region 8 alternate’s opinion or vote does not matter. Just as my opinion and vote doesn’t matter. Please, save that for another thread. This should be a thread specifically for voting. The fact that we even allow debate on the same email thread is absurd to me, and I know it’s allowed because Robert’s advises against eballots and has no further position on it that I am aware of. But please exercise decorum here, as I am sure Mr Coburn is well aware of his regional agreement and any possible repercussions that may arise because of his vote.

Again, the valid vote here is from Mr Coburn. NOT from the alternate.

Once again; I ask the Secretary to exercise caution in further attempts to persuade a vote and WILL call for a censure should she continue to violate our newly solidified policy manual position regarding such things outbursts.

For the record, I would seek the guidance of my regions’ chairs before making a decision on this matter, but understand the reason to vote out of principle instead.
--


Jared Hall
Region 3 Alternate

“For me, politeness is a sine qua non of civilization.”
-Robert A. Heinlein

Caryn Ann Harlos

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Jun 17, 2021, 4:57:07 AM6/17/21
to lnc-business
I am allowed to ask what I wish, and your opinion on the matter is not what I asked for.  You of course are free to say it as I am free to ignore it. Mr. Coburn can speak for himself.

   In Liberty, 

LNC Secretary | secr...@lp.org | 561.523.2250

Caryn Ann Harlos

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Jun 17, 2021, 4:58:13 AM6/17/21
to lnc-business
I am allowed to persuade a vote.  How dare you threaten me with censure for trying to persuade a vote.  That is what debate is.  Though, in fact, that is not what I am doing here.  I asked reasons and background for a vote, but I dare you to censure me for this.

   In Liberty, 

LNC Secretary | secr...@lp.org | 561.523.2250

Jared Hall

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Jun 17, 2021, 5:26:05 AM6/17/21
to lnc-bu...@lp.org
So moved.

Caryn Ann Harlos

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Jun 17, 2021, 5:30:52 AM6/17/21
to lnc-business
You are an alternate, find a voting member to do so and be sure to lay out specific grounds for not only are you trying to bully me for doing something I am allowed to do, what I am doing is perfectly allowed under these rules you are trying to weaponize.  Shame on you.

   In Liberty, 

LNC Secretary | secr...@lp.org | 561.523.2250