after committee meeting last night .....

[Secretary LNC]

All of us except Mr. Seebeck who had to live for convention wrangled and come to a consensus on the top 6.  If we can perhaps come to an in-between meeting and potentially vote on this it can save time and we can get them to rationales committee to perfect and be ready for a part one survey!

If there is appetite I am considering starting an email ballot with these as first 6:

1. H - Standardize Committee Rules
2. J - Rising Seconds
3. MK-ULTRA - Change Timing of Platform & Credential Committee Appointments
4. NN - Removal from Office
5. RR - Re-Structure LNC  (Dr. Moulton to present)
6. EE - Resolve Affiliate Disputes 

It starts with three easy wins and then right into 3 heavy important ones.

I didn't list any kind of minority reports.  Minority reports are up to the people who might make them and I really ask that any members, including myself, consider not .... and everyone but me (and Dr. Moulton for one proposal) can debate from floor.

Is there appetite for such a ballot to narrow the rest we need to do?

___________________________________________________

In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos

LNC Secretary and LP Historical Preservation Committee Chair ~ 561.523.2250

[Mike Seebeck]

I'm okay with this.

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[Rob Latham]

Am going to be a dissenter here.

Was in the post-meeting Zoom, but was dividing my attention and participated in the discussion infrequently.

EE is too high in the ranking order for me; am concerned that considering that proposal that early jeopardizes later proposals.

Have no objections to the 1 through 5 rankings.

In liberty,

Rob Latham 

--

[Secretary LNC]

That was a compromise or Mr. Rieleyte is not on board with others.

We are all giving up something here.

___________________________________________________

In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos

LNC Secretary and LP Historical Preservation Committee Chair ~ 561.523.2250

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/lp.org/d/msgid/bylaws-committee-2024/CAOKuKG%3Do8EnoapOZuik1LwAZwxz25jEqMMPdJ%2BPoeqQiH6p%2BNw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Secretary LNC]

Rowlette, sorry my phone and eyesight suck

___________________________________________________

In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos

LNC Secretary and LP Historical Preservation Committee Chair ~ 561.523.2250

[Tom Rowlette]

I'm in favor of an email ballot.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/lp.org/d/msgid/bylaws-committee-2024/CAGiA9Wnuj04ckomFvk%3D9Z%2BREMqS-RRZU6prZA4sPm3dTcornEg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Paul Bracco]

Mr. Latham,

I'm pretty sold on EE as proposal #6, I'd only be willing to move it down 1-2 slots if we were to move it at all. However, I'd be interested to hear what proposal you believe should take its place.

Sincerely,

Paul Bracco

Vice Chair - Libertarian Party of Virginia

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/lp.org/d/msgid/bylaws-committee-2024/CA%2B6WXgVdqjmWd%3DCMaJcEOcnFMcXicASWVHkH%2BXXhKQEJu_qoTQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Secretary LNC]

I'm firm on that to keep the compromise proposal together.  Mr. Rowlette already gave a great deal of ground coming off of wanting it as number 1. 

___________________________________________________

In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos

LNC Secretary and LP Historical Preservation Committee Chair ~ 561.523.2250

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/lp.org/d/msgid/bylaws-committee-2024/YTOopxaBxv1jJ7Prtft9ozy6ZMpzBuPnxpF6mR6Iv4ILhtYSk998SRpfiOGeBDFXRDcBY4t9_8fnG6lMY9oOxxXup3sUoMeNXsx8pSqshEQ%3D%40protonmail.com.

[Rob Latham]

Copying what I wrote in response to Dr. Moulton's updated ranking:

To share my sense of ordering here, would swap 6-8 with 9-11 (and am anticipating 11-SS will not be necessary if 5-RR passes).

So EE would become the eighth agenda item with that change.

As I mentioned during yesterday's meeting, moving the group of proposals including B into that later position should motivate many delegates to remain in the convention hall through that portion of the BandRComm report.

So -- using Dr. Moulton's updated ranking -- the order of the first 10 items would look like this:

1. H - Standardize Committee Rules
2. J - Rising Seconds
3. MK-ULTRA - Change Timing of Platform & Credential Committee Appointments

4. NN - Removal from Office

5. RR - Re-Structure LNC (minority report for a proviso)
6. P1 - Add Electronic Balloting (better to do before R)
7. R - Add RCV Voting for Officers   

8. EE - Resolve Affiliate Disputes (minority report with different
approach, not cut anymore -- moving up is a compromise by me)
9. S - Refine Dues Definition (better to do before B)
10. B - Raise Membership Dues (minority report for gradual rise)

Take up SS - Cumulative Voting after R - Add RCV Voting for Officers, if necessary because RR does not pass. Cautiously optimistic that taking up SS won't be necessary.

Recall that EE passed this committee with two votes against (after my initial opposition I voted in favor, but to give it a chance to be considered at convention, not to have it heard to the potential detriment and exclusion of other proposals), and there is already a narrative forming among opponents that it interferes with the autonomy of affiliates by restricting petitioning rights to sustaining members only (i.e., "Under Proposal EE only those members aligned with Panem may petition as to which 'Region X' members get be recognized by Panem as representatives of 'Region X' ... a Hunger Games reference for those unfamiliar.).

In liberty,

Rob Latham

P.S.: And "Rieleyte" is a fine surname. ;-)

On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 11:57 AM 'Paul Bracco' via Bylaws Committee 2024 <bylaws-com...@lp.org> wrote:

[Secretary LNC]

Well back to plan A- will have updated spreadsheet this weekend to vote with ranking.  I intend on keeping to the compromise I was going to move.

___________________________________________________

In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos

LNC Secretary and LP Historical Preservation Committee Chair ~ 561.523.2250

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[Tom Rowlette]

At least we're all pretty much agreed on what should be in the 6 to 12 range.  I would really like it if EE were number 6, with the idea that it's one of the big three.  NN, RR, and EE are all somewhat controversial and big, and it feels appropriate to have them together and where they are.

After that, it seems like there are three "sets" of proposals - elections, dues, and member rights (delegate representation and notice requirements).  Of those three I imagine that elections will take the most time, that dues will most affect the party, and that member rights is most dear to me.

We can split up the dues ones, but keeping them together just makes the most intuitive sense to me.  If I were an average delegate I'd probably like to consider them one after the other, but it's not the biggest deal if they split.

I agree that putting dues at the end makes stretegic sense, but only because it keeps the delegates engaged all the way to the end.  There's a small risk that as the 4 hour deadline approaches someone moves to suspend the rules to consider it next, and if we got through the report without someone doing that I think an angel gets his wings.  Basically I'm hesitant (though willing) to have them around 12 instead of higher up.

I like member rights as 7 and 8 because there's only 2 of them and there aren't as many big feelings around them after the big three.  If they go later but are still considered that's fine, but that might mean we go straight from controversy to complexity with elections.  Seems like we're asking for fatigue if we do that, but it's not the end of the world.

End brain dump.

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