Seeking co-sponsors: Ethics, Transparency, and Accounting

[Ken Moellman]

Seeking co-sponsors for a proposal to add restrictions on what people with titles can do with those titles, and creates an open records provision for party members.  We've had similar language to that which is proposed to be added in LPKY for 5 years and it has worked out very well.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oo0jl-1aNrrslbaaAuUcW7FS6PmaZzP7YmC3WAayhho/edit?pli=1 

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Ken C. Moellman, Jr.

Executive Director

Libertarian Party of Kentucky

[Ken Moellman]

Likewise, Word version attached.

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Ken C. Moellman, Jr.

Executive Director

Libertarian Party of Kentucky

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Committee members, download the Proposal Form here: https://tinyurl.com/2024Bylaws-SubmissionForm
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[Secretary LNC]

Absolutely oppose as highly unclear and weaponizable.

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In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos

LNC Secretary and LP Historical Preservation Committee Chair ~ 561.523.2250

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/lp.org/d/msgid/bylaws-committee-2024/8a20da50236319ca527a4abbffd29b8a%40lpky.org.

[Secretary LNC]

And let's please not seek co-sponsors - if you are proposing this I will just add to agenda.  Also I think parts of this are improper for bylaws as being in the nature of a rule of order, and thus belongs in policy manual not bylaws, but I will save that for debate.

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In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos

LNC Secretary and LP Historical Preservation Committee Chair ~ 561.523.2250

[Paul Bracco]

Good evening Mr. Vice Chair,

I'm not able to access this document, I think there may be an issue with the permission settings.

Sincerely,

Paul Bracco

Vice Chair - Libertarian Party of Virginia

------- Original Message -------

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[Ken Moellman]

My apologies; this has been fixed.

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Ken C. Moellman, Jr.

Executive Director

Libertarian Party of Kentucky

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/lp.org/d/msgid/bylaws-committee-2024/kNuaYY4OuemV2eAJrTHnzFcbWhyEkusm5-3tvA9vFSGBDGP3lDao_rg9pgRC6NgWNYFuDIFb6tkVIZ61OeNSsHGnZpxVNfMe4e3ENt2ir7M%3D%40protonmail.com.

[Ken Moellman]

I look forward to hearing which parts you believe can be weaponized.  We've had this in KY for 5 years, though multiple boards (including some turbulent changes), and it has not been weaponized.

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Ken C. Moellman, Jr.

Executive Director

Libertarian Party of Kentucky

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/lp.org/d/msgid/bylaws-committee-2024/CAGiA9W%3DaxnThM_PbTF-hx5U2%2Bg6h6WzFAMAvELqXUaNhbDxnnQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Secretary LNC]

FYI, parts of the open records portion I support (but this is wayyyyy too long and open for abuse) but I will be proposing that in another proposal that I have been working on.  Most of the rest belongs in a policy manual and the idea of using "titles" we have already seen abused so much without a bylaw and I ask "have we learned nothing?"  There are multiple other issues, but again will save for debate at a meeting.

___________________________________________________

In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos

LNC Secretary and LP Historical Preservation Committee Chair ~ 561.523.2250

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/lp.org/d/msgid/bylaws-committee-2024/29817b96c703bcdda8d8f6986363fec8%40lpky.org.

[Secretary LNC]

LOL, YouTube channel anyone?  Hell no.  Angela's makeup company?  There is not a chance in hell this would pass.  There is some I support but nowhere near like as written.  Want more bullshit removal attempts?  This is EXACTLY how you get that.

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In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos

LNC Secretary and LP Historical Preservation Committee Chair ~ 561.523.2250

[Ken Moellman]

People can do whatever they like, provided they're not using their title to do it. I view titles as a responsibility, not as a privilege, and believe that there should be no financial benefit to a title.

If we create a system that permits people to use titles to gain wealth, then I believe we end up as corrupt as the politicians who use their titles to get campaign donations and other perks, as we create financial incentives for people to seek titles. I have never found it to be a coincidence that the cost to get elected to a state house seat or state senate seat in KY is roughly equal to the amount of money the elected person makes during that term of office. 

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Ken C. Moellman, Jr.

Executive Director

Libertarian Party of Kentucky

[Secretary LNC]

sorry that is nonsense.  That is subjective as YOU OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW.  And these are unpaid positions.

___________________________________________________

In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos

LNC Secretary and LP Historical Preservation Committee Chair ~ 561.523.2250

[TRowlette]

Questions for Ken:

On this part of the proposal:  

1. All in-kind donations shall be approved in advance by the treasurer. In-kind donations shall be valued at the reasonable market value for the goods or service in question.

Does this solve a problem we've had in the past? If so, what was the issue? I'm guessing that if somebody wanted to donate a printer or desk or something to the LP getting ahold of the Treasurer and getting his or her OK wouldn't be a problem, but does this create a roadblock for off-the-cuff donations of stuff?

On this part of the proposal:

1. The following shall be exempt from disclosure and the Open records provisions:

   • Personal information about members, delegates, and donors other than what is required to be public for campaign finance reporting purposes;

Doesn't that conflict with the current Article 10 section 5 of the bylaws, which says:

5. Delegate List: Any Party member shall be provided, upon request and payment of copying and mailing costs, a list of the names and addresses of all delegates selected to attend and those who actually attended the most recent two conventions, with those who attended clearly identified, and all delegates / alternates selected to the upcoming convention, if available.

On this part of the proposal, which prohibits from disclosure:

• Preliminary recommendations, and preliminary memoranda in which opinions are expressed or policies formulated or recommended, but upon which no external action was taken;

Does that mean that the Secretary would not be able to put things like staff reports in the minutes if no action was taken on them?  I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant when you put this part in there, but it could be interpreted that way.  Does this section cover anything important that isn't covered in the sections about not releasing legal advice and active investigations?

On this part of the proposal, which prohibits from disclosure:

• All records or information where disclosure is prohibited by federal or state law or regulation.

Doesn't that go without saying? Do we really need it?

Last but not least. Does the whole Open Records section address a problem we've had? If so, what was the problem? Why do we need this? If we do need it, why don't we make it its own separate proposal?