Fwd: Interested in having Richard Stallman come speak (2018-01--02)?
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Nathan McCoy
Dec 21, 2017, 8:14:38 AM12/21/17
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Got this email below recently.
I tried to organise an event with Richard stallman when I was at lug, maybe someone may want to know
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Jeanne Rasata" <rms-a...@gnu.org>
Date: 21 Dec 2017 12:18 p.m.
Subject: Interested in having Richard Stallman come speak (2018-01--02)?
To: <rms-a...@gnu.org>
Cc:
From: "Jeanne Rasata" <rms-a...@gnu.org>
Date: 21 Dec 2017 12:18 p.m.
Subject: Interested in having Richard Stallman come speak (2018-01--02)?
To: <rms-a...@gnu.org>
Cc:
Dear free software supporter,
You are receiving this e-mail because you once expressed interest in
having Richard Stallman come give a talk.
He is available from January 15th, 2018, through February
9th, 2018. If you would like him to come speak then, please let me
know.
If you are no longer interested in hearing about such opportunities,
please just ignore this message, and I will remove you from this
mailing list.
Thank you for supporting free software.
Sincerely,
j.
--
Jeanne Rasata
Program Assistant
Free Software Foundation
Aamoy Gupta
Dec 21, 2017, 10:35:40 PM12/21/17
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Keep in mind that you will need to pay for his boarding and he can only deal with open source things as a matter of principle.
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Thank You,
Aamoy Gupta
Aamoy Gupta
David Nguyen
Dec 22, 2017, 1:43:20 AM12/22/17
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You’re kidding? It’s not like LUG budgeted for a Stallman talk. We would also probably organize this with another CS group to get a critical mass. How long do we have to respond.
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David Nguyen
Dec 28, 2017, 11:46:26 PM12/28/17
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Hey Nathan,
Could we get RMS for a talk on January 23rd? Also we'd like to know what our exact obligations would be? Thanks. To unsubscribe from this group, email members+u...@linux.ucla.edu
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Nathan McCoy
Dec 29, 2017, 12:13:57 AM12/29/17
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Hey David,
I'm not any type of representative for RMS. Please just write to the email address in the forwarded email.
I'm simply an ex-member passing on information.
Nathan
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Douglas Dunn
Dec 29, 2017, 12:44:51 AM12/29/17
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Be cautious, he's like a cult leader. He'll try to force you to strike all reference to Linux from any club materials, and he will babble about his "unfinished GNU toolchain that will become HURD when I finish it, blah, blah."
Of course, these are just things I heard. It's hard to tell with a person like him where the line between legend and reality stops. He's sort of erratic, but in an interesting way. Just don't take him TOO seriously.
Of course, these are just things I heard. It's hard to tell with a person like him where the line between legend and reality stops. He's sort of erratic, but in an interesting way. Just don't take him TOO seriously.
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Samuel Lurie
Jan 2, 2018, 9:36:10 PM1/2/18
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@Douglas, responding to your assertions
He'll try to force you to strike all reference to Linux from any club materials
No, he doesn't do that. Rather, RMS is against referring to an entire operating system that uses the Linux kernel as just "Linux." He has nothing against talking about Linux--provided that when you say "Linux", you are referring to nothing other than the Linux kernel.
he will babble about his "unfinished GNU toolchain that will become HURD when I finish it, blah, blah."
Not really. In fact, during the Q&A portion of one of his lectures, someone asked him when Hurd will be complete. He said something to the effect of it doesn't matter so much anymore because we now have a free kernel we can use.
It's hard to tell with a person like him where the line between legend and reality stops.
Actually, with RMS, it's very easy to do so. He's very open about himself and his views (which he articulates extremely precisely), and his consistency is unflinching.
Jeremy Neptune
Jan 3, 2018, 1:54:16 AM1/3/18
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Nice to see that the procedure to remove your sense of humour was a success
| From: lu...@linux.ucla.edu Sent: January 2, 2018 6:36 PM Reply-to: mem...@linux.ucla.edu Subject: Re: [uclalug-members] Fwd: Interested in having Richard Stallman come speak (2018-01--02)? |
Douglas Dunn
Jan 3, 2018, 12:28:52 PM1/3/18
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Okay, I suppose I stand corrected... (?)
So first let me reply to this: "He said something to the effect of it doesn't matter so much anymore because we now have a free kernel we can use."
That's my whole point. It doesn't matter so much, ANYMORE! Stallman had more of a point in the 90's, sure. Even then, his point was tedious and pedantic. What is the point of debating it still? But RMS is well-known for always, always debating it. And insisting on "proper terminology". At a certain point, the proper terminology is the terminology that is well accepted in the field. I.E. referring to the "linux kernel", as well as the "linux operating system", as 99% of the internet does. The thing is: what would you suggest as an alternative? "GNU"? Nobody (in the real world) knows what that is, or will ever care. Hell, to many people "Linux" is known as Ubuntu. To some people, Windows is called "the computer" or even "the internet". It doesn't matter what people call any of these things. Just let it go.
You have no rebuttal for my assertion that he has a the charismatic-but-crazy sort of personality that is associated with cult leaders and pyramid schemes.
On that note, I just checked his homepage. Never been there before, but dang. For the record, I agree with him on a few things, especially environmental points. It's not like *everything* he says is Time-Cube level wacko. Take a look at it, there's a list of major "companies to avoid" (basically most large tech companies), and then this:
I'm looking for people to…
He also seems to be one of those people into "exposing surveillance". He's anti-ID card, because he really, really doesn't trust government. Oh and he doesn't believe in e-books because the government can erase them remotely, for censorship. Basically his whole site is a a bunch of paranoia mixed with a few articles on global warming and terrorism.
The fact that he is recruiting people to spy on people's email addresses and other contact data is unprofessional, hypocritical and really creepy.
I would agree with you though: his site does show a lot of research and obsessiveness. This is a hallmark of paranoid delusions, by the way, along with feeling that one is on a "special mission" that only the individual can complete. I guess I don't have issues with his methods so much as his apparent latent mental issues.
I don't want to start a whole flame war thing, so let's leave it at that. You like Stallman and I don't. We should all look at both sides. Check out https://stallman.org/ and make your own decision.
So first let me reply to this: "He said something to the effect of it doesn't matter so much anymore because we now have a free kernel we can use."
That's my whole point. It doesn't matter so much, ANYMORE! Stallman had more of a point in the 90's, sure. Even then, his point was tedious and pedantic. What is the point of debating it still? But RMS is well-known for always, always debating it. And insisting on "proper terminology". At a certain point, the proper terminology is the terminology that is well accepted in the field. I.E. referring to the "linux kernel", as well as the "linux operating system", as 99% of the internet does. The thing is: what would you suggest as an alternative? "GNU"? Nobody (in the real world) knows what that is, or will ever care. Hell, to many people "Linux" is known as Ubuntu. To some people, Windows is called "the computer" or even "the internet". It doesn't matter what people call any of these things. Just let it go.
You have no rebuttal for my assertion that he has a the charismatic-but-crazy sort of personality that is associated with cult leaders and pyramid schemes.
On that note, I just checked his homepage. Never been there before, but dang. For the record, I agree with him on a few things, especially environmental points. It's not like *everything* he says is Time-Cube level wacko. Take a look at it, there's a list of major "companies to avoid" (basically most large tech companies), and then this:
I'm looking for people to…
- search for things such as people's email addresses or other contact coordinates.
- (in India) make and sell buttons that say, "DON'T BE TRACKED PAY CASH", in English and/or a local language, to resist the campaign against cash. Talk with a local company that makes buttons, buy a batch of 50 to 500 buttons for a quantity price, then sell them for 2 or 3 times that price.
He also seems to be one of those people into "exposing surveillance". He's anti-ID card, because he really, really doesn't trust government. Oh and he doesn't believe in e-books because the government can erase them remotely, for censorship. Basically his whole site is a a bunch of paranoia mixed with a few articles on global warming and terrorism.
The fact that he is recruiting people to spy on people's email addresses and other contact data is unprofessional, hypocritical and really creepy.
I would agree with you though: his site does show a lot of research and obsessiveness. This is a hallmark of paranoid delusions, by the way, along with feeling that one is on a "special mission" that only the individual can complete. I guess I don't have issues with his methods so much as his apparent latent mental issues.
I don't want to start a whole flame war thing, so let's leave it at that. You like Stallman and I don't. We should all look at both sides. Check out https://stallman.org/ and make your own decision.
Doug Dunn
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Eric Griffis
Jan 3, 2018, 2:21:28 PM1/3/18
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This rant sounds exactly like 90's anti-open source FUD. When Microsoft declared war on Linux, RMS was the perfect target for character assassination. As we debate his visit, let's keep that in mind.
RMS is eccentric, but not insane. For instance, he really does eat toe cheese on YouTube... as a lecturing MIT professor. For actual paranoid delusional behavior, see police reports filed by LUG. In my experience, obsessions and paranoid delusions are rarely so organized, well articulated, or constructive.
In the appropriate historical and political context, Dr. Stallman's points are quite rational. He's basically the Aristotle of software. Whether we like it or not, we benefit daily from his philosophy and the personal sacrifice it entails. His pedantic style is stereotypically academic, and I doubt he expects anyone to be like him all the time.
But don't take my word for it. Go talk to Dr. Eggert. He works with RMS directly on emacs and other stuff. He might also know how to get the department or college involved, and whether that's a good idea.
Eric
Douglas Dunn
Jan 3, 2018, 2:59:11 PM1/3/18
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I'll agree that there is a fine line between genius and insanity, great artists and scientists have often hovered there. And to be clear, I don't mean to diminish his actual contributions which are large and valid. I was saying that he seems to have the symptoms of latent schizophrenia, as did Terry Pratchett, for instance. Of course, I'm just an armchair psychiatrist at best.
I guess I just don't like him on a personal level: the massive arrogance with which he seems to conduct himself, especially in regard to the "but I get to name it!" issue. The name is already set in stone by public opinion, essentially. Arguing against that just comes across as out of touch and weird. And it's not the only example, there's an article on his webpage theorizing a method of electronic payment via prepaid phone cards and/or the change slot on a payphone.
I've never heard him speak in person, so if you do schedule him I might come back to visit the campus and attend. I'd enjoy a chance to hear him out and ask a few questions.
Also, how's it going Eric?
I guess I just don't like him on a personal level: the massive arrogance with which he seems to conduct himself, especially in regard to the "but I get to name it!" issue. The name is already set in stone by public opinion, essentially. Arguing against that just comes across as out of touch and weird. And it's not the only example, there's an article on his webpage theorizing a method of electronic payment via prepaid phone cards and/or the change slot on a payphone.
I've never heard him speak in person, so if you do schedule him I might come back to visit the campus and attend. I'd enjoy a chance to hear him out and ask a few questions.
Also, how's it going Eric?
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glen lenker
Jan 3, 2018, 7:34:33 PM1/3/18
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He visited San Jose State once. It was arranged by a professor, which might be a good idea here, because he wouldn't speak unless we changed our name to GNU/Linux Users Group. He did insist on having us pay for his boarding. We were also obligated to provide him with a Pepsi and listen to his political reasons for choosing Pepsi over Coke.
Everything considered, it was pretty funny to see him wear a tape drive as a halo and proclaim himself of saint of a religion. Church of Emacs was it?On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:54 PM, Jeremy Neptune <jere...@gmail.com> wrote:
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Samuel Lurie
Jan 4, 2018, 11:31:14 PM1/4/18
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[quote=Jeremy Neptune]Nice to see that the procedure to remove your sense of humor was a success[/quote]
There
wasn't any post whatsoever within this thread up until the position
of your post that was intended to be humorous. I'm not sure
what you're trying to accomplish by saying that, other than
mockery.
[quote=Doug]So first let me
reply to this … It doesn't matter what people call any of these
things. Just let it go.[/quote]
In the portion of your
post that begins with “So first let me reply” and ends with “Just
let it go.”, it is clear that you have misunderstood me.
You assume that I agree with RMS's positions. However, I never wrote
that I agree with RMS on anything
whatsoever.
Yes, I complimented him on his character, but that doesn't mean I
agree with any of what he says.
I casually refer to GNU/Linux as simply “Linux”, and I have no issue with other people doing so as well, nor have I ever. Names simply, well, happen. I was simply correcting you when you said that RMS insists on people not mentioning Linux in their “club materials”—that is, at worst, false, and at best, a mischaracterization of his positions. In your initial post, you made no reference whatsoever to the issue of what the operating system is referred to—you are just changing the topic now. And you don't need to argue with me on that, because I agree with you already anyway. But please note that calling the operating system “Linux” is a different topic entirely than removing all references to Linux. The latter has never been a position that RMS has taken!
[quote=Doug]You
have no rebuttal for my assertion that he has a the
charismatic-but-crazy sort of personality that is associated with
cult leaders and pyramid schemes.[/quote]
Yes,
I have no rebuttal for that—and that is because I agree with
you on that point!! Here you are implying that I wrote things that I
never wrote.
[quote=Doug]On that
note, I just checked his homepage. …
Basically his whole site is a a
bunch of paranoia mixed with a few articles on global warming and
terrorism.[/quote]
Okay.
[quote=Doug]The
fact that he is recruiting people to spy on people's email addresses
and other contact data is unprofessional, hypocritical and really
creepy.[/quote]
Certainly, I am against such behavior.
[quote=Doug]I
don't want to start a whole flame war thing, so let's leave it at
that. You like Stallman and I don't. We should all look at both
sides. Check out https://stallman.org/
and make your own decision.[/quote]
No, I never said that I like Stallman. It is unfortunate that having defended someone against false characterizations has become grounds for assuming that I am a supporter of his. We should not only be able to defend people we are fans of. It is always good to correct misinformation about people, regardless of whether we are fans of them or not.
However, if I was able to get you to go from writing based off of just hearsay (i.e. you wrote “Of course, these are just things I heard.”) to now reading material on his website and encouraging others to do the same, then I am very glad to have accomplished just that. And we can “leave it at that.”
Also, it seems from the posts later in the thread that y'all are UCLA LUG alumni. Nice to meet you! I was active in the LUG around 2013-2014. (when Troy Sankey was president)
[quote=Glen Lenker]We were also obligated to provide him with a Pepsi and listen to his political reasons for choosing Pepsi over Coke. [/quote]
That's funny! I recall seeing a lecture of his where he turns to the emcee and says something like, “Oh!? This is warm pepsi.”
[quote=Glen Lenker]it was pretty funny to see him wear a tape drive as a halo and proclaim himself of saint of a religion. Church of Emacs was it?[/quote]
Yes, the Church of Emacs! You can see it at:
Eric Griffis
Jan 5, 2018, 3:43:28 PM1/5/18
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In the interest of correcting bad info, it turns out Stallman isn't a professor at MIT. He's been an unpaid visiting scientist at CSAIL since 1984. He has honorary doctorates and professorships all over Europe, though.
Also, I meant to compare him to Socrates, not Aristotle. (But I'm sure that was obvious)
Finally, his methods smack of black-and-white thinking. From Wikipedia:
> Eric S. Raymond, one of the creators of the open source movement, argued that moral arguments, rather than pragmatic ones, alienate potential allies and hurt the end goal of removing code secrecy.
Hi, Doug. Hanging in there.
Eric
IoannisM IoannisM
Jan 6, 2018, 4:01:40 AM1/6/18
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I'll pay 100 bucks for RMS to show up on the condition that Terry Davis is in attendance.
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