Sylabs fork of Singularity

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Jason Tuschen

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May 4, 2021, 9:32:48 AM5/4/21
to singularity

Dear all,

We believe a healthy and vibrant open source community is vital to the success of all open source projects, and in this vein, Sylabs has decided to fork the Singularity project and its dependencies to https://github.com/sylabs.

A new Slack workspace for this fork has been established at: https://singularityce.slack.com/

A new mailing list / Google Group for this fork has been established at: https://groups.google.com/g/singularity-ce

Sylabs remains committed to keeping Singularity open source and freely available. With your help, we hope to build an active and inclusive community around the project.

If you have questions or suggestions, we’d love to hear from you! Come talk to us on Slack!

Dave Dykstra

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May 4, 2021, 10:03:29 AM5/4/21
to Jason Tuschen, singu...@lbl.gov
Jason, we need a better explanation than that. Vibrant open source
communities do not split into two separate forks without strong
justification. This is very worrying.

Dave

On Tue, May 04, 2021 at 06:32:48AM -0700, Jason Tuschen wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> We believe a healthy and vibrant open source community is vital to the
> success of all open source projects, and in this vein, Sylabs has decided
> to fork the Singularity project and its dependencies to
> https://github.com/sylabs .
>
> A new Slack workspace for this fork has been established at:
> https://singularityce.slack.com/
> <https://join.slack.com/t/singularityce/shared_invite/zt-q5aaa0vk-0WYs5bEXacT20z~G7QiuzQ >
>
> A new mailing list / Google Group for this fork has been established at:
> https://groups.google.com/g/singularity-ce
>
> Sylabs remains committed to keeping Singularity open source and freely
> available. With your help, we hope to build an active and inclusive
> community around the project.
> If you have questions or suggestions, we???d love to hear from you! Come talk
> to us on Slack
> <https://join.slack.com/t/singularityce/shared_invite/zt-q5aaa0vk-0WYs5bEXacT20z~G7QiuzQ >
> !
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "singularity" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to singularity...@lbl.gov.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/lbl.gov/d/msgid/singularity/09107192-9dd4-438d-9aa5-c13ef785a294n%40lbl.gov .

Jason Tuschen

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May 4, 2021, 10:30:31 AM5/4/21
to Dave Dykstra, singu...@lbl.gov

Dave and community,

 

A fork of a project can be confusing to the community of users and contributors, however we firmly believe that for an open source project to thrive, the leaders, contributors, potential contributors, and users all need a clear understanding of the project aims, the way in which it will be managed, and how they can give input around important decisions. 

 

Sylabs has demonstrated our commitment to Singularity over the past three years. We’ve continued to contribute features, manage releases and security issues, engage with users on GitHub, Slack, and the Mailing Lists. We’ve been a consistent presence in the community Zoom calls, and hope that we have provided useful information and listened to feedback in these venues.

 

Rather than promises with a lot of words, we’d ask that you observe how we and the community move forward, and let us know what we could do to reinforce your trust.

 

 

Very Respectfully,

Jason Tuschen

CEO

858-414-5003

 tu...@sylabs.io

 

signature_947533227

Dave Dykstra

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May 4, 2021, 10:52:50 AM5/4/21
to Jason Tuschen, singu...@lbl.gov
That all sounds good and I agree Sylabs has been a very important
contributor to singularity but it still does nothing to explain why you
need to go through the drastic step of making a fork.

In my experience successful forks of open source projects only happen
after a company puts some sort of lock on the main project that is
intolerable to the community, enough to cause the bulk of the community
to abandon the original project. Has anything like that happened here?

Forks also always change the name so as to not confuse them with the
original project. I haven't seen anything in the announcement about a
name change.

Dave

On Tue, May 04, 2021 at 02:30:08PM +0000, Jason Tuschen wrote:
> Dave and community,
>
> A fork of a project can be confusing to the community of users and contributors, however we firmly believe that for an open source project to thrive, the leaders, contributors, potential contributors, and users all need a clear understanding of the project aims, the way in which it will be managed, and how they can give input around important decisions.
>
> Sylabs has demonstrated our commitment to Singularity over the past three years. We've continued to contribute features, manage releases and security issues, engage with users on GitHub, Slack, and the Mailing Lists. We've been a consistent presence in the community Zoom calls, and hope that we have provided useful information and listened to feedback in these venues.
>
> Rather than promises with a lot of words, we'd ask that you observe how we and the community move forward, and let us know what we could do to reinforce your trust.
>
>
> Very Respectfully,
> Jason Tuschen
> CEO
> 858-414-5003
> tu...@sylabs.io<mailto:tu...@sylabs.io>
>
> [signature_947533227]
>
> From: Dave Dykstra <d...@fnal.gov>
> Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2021 at 7:03 AM
> To: Jason Tuschen <tu...@sylabs.io>
> Cc: singu...@lbl.gov <singu...@lbl.gov>
> Subject: Re: [Singularity] Sylabs fork of Singularity
> Jason, we need a better explanation than that. Vibrant open source
> communities do not split into two separate forks without strong
> justification. This is very worrying.
>
> Dave
>
> On Tue, May 04, 2021 at 06:32:48AM -0700, Jason Tuschen wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > We believe a healthy and vibrant open source community is vital to the
> > success of all open source projects, and in this vein, Sylabs has decided
> > to fork the Singularity project and its dependencies to
> > https://github.com/sylabs .
> >
> > A new Slack workspace for this fork has been established at:
> > https://singularityce.slack.com/
> > <https://join.slack.com/t/singularityce/shared_invite/zt-q5aaa0vk-0WYs5bEXacT20z~G7QiuzQ >
> >
> > A new mailing list / Google Group for this fork has been established at:
> > https://groups.google.com/g/singularity-ce
> >
> > Sylabs remains committed to keeping Singularity open source and freely
> > available. With your help, we hope to build an active and inclusive
> > community around the project.
> > If you have questions or suggestions, we'd love to hear from you! Come talk

David Godlove

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May 4, 2021, 5:26:30 PM5/4/21
to singularity
I have to echo Dr. Dave.  This is unexpected and confusing.  I also know that Dr. Dave is probably the most prolific and involved member of the open source community.  Seeing that he was (evidently) out of the loop on this decision is therefore less than reassuring.  

I guess in addition to hearing a little more about the decision making process, I would also like to know what this means for the project moving forward.  Are folks like myself and Dave who maintain Singularity installations on shared resources going to have to track 2 different projects?  Are they anticipated to diverge greatly?  How will security patches be rolled out?  Do you anticipate pulling changes from "upstream" (HPCng).  That will eventually become untenable. 

Looking forward to hearing more details!  

Dave Godlove 

v

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May 4, 2021, 6:52:27 PM5/4/21
to singu...@lbl.gov
I'll offer a different point of view. The Singularity community has been fractured for years - we were a once vibrant project, and now it seems to be a battle between companies, with contributors primarily coming from those companies. So - how to restore a once vibrant community? I don't know, but I suspect change is a good thing. If things stay as they are now, there will not be change.

I don't know the details either, but if Jason has a plan to try to proactively improve the current state? I almost don't care about the details. That is what the project needs, at least if we expect it to have sustainability.

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