wxWidgets 3.2.0 for Fedora

[Steven A. Falco]

For those who don't follow the Fedora development list, i.e. most everyone :-), I've attached two emails related to wxWidgets and wxPython. It looks like we will soon have wxWidgets/wxPython 3.2.0 in Rawhide.

This change won't apply to the older Fedora releases, so if we want to keep the nightlies available for Fedora 35 and 36 (and I hope we can), that will mean that we cannot completely eliminate the older wx support from KiCad until F36 goes obsolete, some time around mid-2023. But at least the Rawhide builds can switch soon.

Please let me know if that makes sense, or if there is a need to drop wxWidgets/wxPython 3.0 sooner.

Steve

[Wayne Stambaugh]

Hi Steve,

wxWidgets/wxPython 3.2.0 are not even in Debian unstable yet so I
wouldn't worry about dropping 3.0 any time soon.

Wayne

>
>     Steve
>

[Steven A. Falco]

Thanks, Wayne. I wanted to ask because Ian created an issue asking Fedora to switch, so I wasn't sure how hot this was. I'll add it as it becomes available in the various Fedora releases.

https://gitlab.com/kicad/packaging/kicad-fedora-builder/-/issues/43

Steve

[Wayne Stambaugh]

For older versions of KiCad, it might be prudent to stick with what we
know versus what we don't know. I know 3.2 resolves some issues but
it's those unknown issues that I would like to avoid until version 7 is
released.

>
>     Steve
>

[Ian McInerney]

The Flatpak has been running the wx 3.1 branch since v6 was released, and so far there have been no issues. We already have Windows and macOS running the 3.1 versions, so I don't see why we need to hold the Linux builds back.

-Ian

>
>      Steve
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "KiCad Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to devlist+u...@kicad.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/c0275101-a91d-6b59-219a-6efe293337a4%40gmail.com.

[Steven A. Falco]

On 8/9/22 06:42 PM, 'Ian McInerney' via KiCad Developers wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 8:50 PM Wayne Stambaugh <stamb...@gmail.com <mailto:stamb...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 8/9/2022 3:13 PM, Steven A. Falco wrote:
> > On 8/9/22 03:08 PM, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
> >> Hi Steve,
> >>
> >>
> >> On 8/9/2022 2:37 PM, Steven A. Falco wrote:
> >>> For those who don't follow the Fedora development list, i.e. most
> >>> everyone :-), I've attached two emails related to wxWidgets and
> >>> wxPython.  It looks like we will soon have wxWidgets/wxPython 3.2.0
> >>> in Rawhide.
> >>>
> >>> This change won't apply to the older Fedora releases, so if we want
> >>> to keep the nightlies available for Fedora 35 and 36 (and I hope we
> >>> can), that will mean that we cannot completely eliminate the older wx
> >>> support from KiCad until F36 goes obsolete, some time around
> >>> mid-2023.  But at least the Rawhide builds can switch soon.
> >>>
> >>> Please let me know if that makes sense, or if there is a need to drop
> >>> wxWidgets/wxPython 3.0 sooner.
> >>
> >> wxWidgets/wxPython 3.2.0 are not even in Debian unstable yet so I
> >> wouldn't worry about dropping 3.0 any time soon.
> >
> > Thanks, Wayne.  I wanted to ask because Ian created an issue asking
> > Fedora to switch, so I wasn't sure how hot this was.  I'll add it as it
> > becomes available in the various Fedora releases.
> >

> > https://gitlab.com/kicad/packaging/kicad-fedora-builder/-/issues/43 <https://gitlab.com/kicad/packaging/kicad-fedora-builder/-/issues/43>

>
> For older versions of KiCad, it might be prudent to stick with what we
> know versus what we don't know.  I know 3.2 resolves some issues but
> it's those unknown issues that I would like to avoid until version 7 is
> released.
>
>
> The Flatpak has been running the wx 3.1 branch since v6 was released, and so far there have been no issues. We already have Windows and macOS running the 3.1 versions, so I don't see why we need to hold the Linux builds back.

That's good, because there was a wrinkle I was not aware of. According to the Fedora wx maintainer:

"while wxWidgets versions are parallel installable, wxPython versions are not. So, once I update to wxPython 4.2.0 (which links with wxWidgets 3.2.0), wxPython 4.0.7 will be gone."

I relayed your info to him, and told him to go ahead with wxWidgets 3.2.0 and wxPython 4.2.0, since we cannot hold him up until KiCad 7 becomes available towards the end of the year. Hopefully there won't be any issues, but if there are I'll yell for help. :-)

Thanks,
Steve

[Wayne Stambaugh]

Fair enough but what is the percentage of users using Flatpaks versus
native builds? Do we have adequate testing to make this call? I have
no idea.

>
> That's good, because there was a wrinkle I was not aware of.  According
> to the Fedora wx maintainer:
>
> "while wxWidgets versions are parallel installable, wxPython versions
> are not.  So, once I update to wxPython 4.2.0 (which links with
> wxWidgets 3.2.0), wxPython 4.0.7 will be gone."

Ughh. If that is true, then we will have no choice.

[Steven A. Falco]

You are right to be concerned Wayne, but we should also keep in mind that none of this will affect Fedora 35 / 36, which are what I'd expect people to be running who are using KiCad in production. Rawhide is where new stuff gets tested - it is not intended for production use.

To be clear, F35/F36 will not get the new wx versions and will therefore remain unaffected.

[Steven A. Falco]

And sadly, there are issues. I created https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/issues/12217 to document this.

It appears to be a very fundamental problem, where I cannot even copy the version info from the about box without getting a crash upon clicking "Ok". Also, just opening the footprint editor results in a crash.

I've uploaded gdb logs to the issue. Please let me know what other info I can provide.

Steve

[Steven A. Falco]

Ian proposed a workaround and that indeed fixes the crash. Details are in the issue.

Thanks Ian, for the speedy analysis and workaround.

Steve

[Steven A. Falco]

On 8/11/22 03:47 PM, Steven A. Falco wrote:

> Ian proposed a workaround and that indeed fixes the crash.  Details are in the issue.
>
> Thanks Ian, for the speedy analysis and workaround.

We have now been asked whether Fedora 37 should or should not switch to wxPython 4.2.0. Currently, only Rawhide has it.

As has already been mentioned, two versions of wxPython cannot coexist in Fedora, so F37 will either have wxPython 4.0.7 or wxPython 4.2.0.

On the pro side, it would be nice to get more testing on wxPython 4.2.0 sooner, and it would let Fedora retire the older wxGTK3 sooner.

On the con side, there may be more bugs lurking, which would require fixes in the KiCad 6.x series.

Fedora 37 will be released around 2022-10-25, and the F37 beta is expected in mid-September, so unfortunately we cannot expect to have KiCad 7 in F37. (As you may remember, while we have a policy exception permitting a major version change of KiCad in a numbered Fedora release, we were advised to use the exception only when necessary to fix critical/security bugs.)

I'd personally prefer to have wxPython 4.2.0 in F37, but it is not my call to make. Wayne, Ian, other lead devs, what say you?

Steve

[Jon Evans]

The surface area of wxPython on KiCad critical functionality is fairly low.  I would recommend moving forward and seeing what happens.

How long do we have to make this decision/recommendation?  It seems easy enough to spot-check the most popular KiCad plugins that make use of wxPython to see if there are any obvious problems, if we know that's the goal.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "KiCad Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to devlist+u...@kicad.org.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/df7c4eb7-9198-47e3-40f4-2f0e3178fa0a%40gmail.com.

[Steven A. Falco]

On 8/12/22 11:36 AM, Jon Evans wrote:
> The surface area of wxPython on KiCad critical functionality is fairly low.  I would recommend moving forward and seeing what happens.
>
> How long do we have to make this decision/recommendation?  It seems easy enough to spot-check the most popular KiCad plugins that make use of wxPython to see if there are any obvious problems, if we know that's the goal.

I'm not really sure. Today is actually the scheduled F37 freeze date, but the schedule [1] says the date is approximate. I can go back and ask when they absolutely need to know, but I think we have the best chance of influencing the decision if we can comment in the next day or two. I realize that isn't much time...

I've tested KiCad 6.0.7 with wxPuthon 4.2.0 on Rawhide, both x86_64 and aarch64. I've tried opening the python console and I've used the footprint wizard to create a BGA. What plugins should I test?

Also, if others want to test, they'll need a Rawhide VM. I can provide a link to the builds of wxPython and KiCad, as well as instructions on how to install.

Steve

[1] https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-37/f-37-key-tasks.html

[Jon Evans]

My understanding is that wxPython 4.2.0 is required for wxWidgets 3.2.0 (at least, that's the case on macOS) -- is that the case on Fedora as well?

If so, I think the tradeoff is worth it and we should recommend moving to the new release even without time to do thorough testing of Python plugins.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "KiCad Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to devlist+u...@kicad.org.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/8c57b812-d219-36bc-6646-08d5c5eee603%40gmail.com.

[Steven A. Falco]

On 8/12/22 11:58 AM, Jon Evans wrote:
> My understanding is that wxPython 4.2.0 is required for wxWidgets 3.2.0 (at least, that's the case on macOS) -- is that the case on Fedora as well?

Correct. Fedora requires wxPython 4.2.0 in order to use wxWidgets 3.2.0.

> If so, I think the tradeoff is worth it and we should recommend moving to the new release even without time to do thorough testing of Python plugins.
>

> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 11:50 AM Steven A. Falco <steve...@gmail.com <mailto:steve...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 8/12/22 11:36 AM, Jon Evans wrote:
> > The surface area of wxPython on KiCad critical functionality is fairly low.  I would recommend moving forward and seeing what happens.
> >
> > How long do we have to make this decision/recommendation?  It seems easy enough to spot-check the most popular KiCad plugins that make use of wxPython to see if there are any obvious problems, if we know that's the goal.
>
> I'm not really sure.  Today is actually the scheduled F37 freeze date, but the schedule [1] says the date is approximate.  I can go back and ask when they absolutely need to know, but I think we have the best chance of influencing the decision if we can comment in the next day or two.  I realize that isn't much time...
>
> I've tested KiCad 6.0.7 with wxPuthon 4.2.0 on Rawhide, both x86_64 and aarch64.  I've tried opening the python console and I've used the footprint wizard to create a BGA.  What plugins should I test?
>
> Also, if others want to test, they'll need a Rawhide VM.  I can provide a link to the builds of wxPython and KiCad, as well as instructions on how to install.
>
>         Steve
>

> [1] https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-37/f-37-key-tasks.html <https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-37/f-37-key-tasks.html>

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "KiCad Developers" group.

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to devlist+u...@kicad.org <mailto:devlist%2Bunsu...@kicad.org>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/8c57b812-d219-36bc-6646-08d5c5eee603%40gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/8c57b812-d219-36bc-6646-08d5c5eee603%40gmail.com>.

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "KiCad Developers" group.

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to devlist+u...@kicad.org <mailto:devlist+u...@kicad.org>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/CA%2BqGbCC8NNJdCoDXDBbn1CLg6zOJ8hNSE9Ew5_xLsu27CLWKQw%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/CA%2BqGbCC8NNJdCoDXDBbn1CLg6zOJ8hNSE9Ew5_xLsu27CLWKQw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.