Older MAC HW compatibility

[Marco Aurélio Carvalho]

Hi folks,

I would like to ask developers of KiCAD to keep compatibility of KiCAD 7 with older MAC machines that do not have GPU METAL compatibility.  Maybe selecting properly options to not use the new METAL resource.

In my case I have a MACMINI Server mid 2011 with SSD and 16GB of RAM. The machine is still capable of running actual SW, even running Catalina, Big SUR, Monterey and Ventura versions of MAC OS (with open core legacy patcher). But cannot use the GPU if the METAL interface is used. So graphic design is done by SW and very very slow.

KiCAD is not a SW that demands high CPU power. But since version 6 (and now 7 requiring Big SUR) is not possible to use comfortably the SW. Version 6 with Catalina is slow to resize windows but still usable. But version 7 (with Ventura and open core) is to slow to do everything. I am going to test version 7 under Windows running on Virtual Box to see if it is usable. But in that scenario there are many resources to run windows. Since there is a native MAC OS version it is a waste to use it under a virtual machine and windows.

There must be a lot of MAC users that do not have modern machines but still have old ones that are used for most of tasks.

Thanks 

Marco Aurelio

[Mark Roszko]

We aren't using Metal at all, for now.

>KiCAD is not a SW that demands high CPU power

Computational geometry is actually quite demanding of CPU power as board complexity increases, so your statement is completely false.

However for simple designs yes, it isn't a real needed.

Most of your slow issues such as resizing windows is not a KiCad problem. We don't do anything special, in fact it's most likely your old hardware not playing nice with newer macos. 

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Mark

[Marco Aurélio Carvalho]

Mark, thanks for your answer.

Is it possible to compile KiCAD allowing version 7 to use Catalina instead of BigSur as the minimum OS?
Version 6 I can run in Catalina and works. 

I just finished testing KiCAD version 7 under Windows 10 (under Virtual Box 6.142). It works without using OpenGL and for a small project it works with some slowness. Virtual Box has a proprietary video driver that seems to not use OpenGL, although the MACmini videocard is an Intel HD3000 which is capable to use  OpenGL3.1 (as I saw in a Microsoft forum).

Another possibility for me would to install a Linux or Windows in the Macmini to test if they can run natively using the HD3000 Video card directly. This would not run under MAC OS and Virtual Box and will take some days to learn how to do it and install.

[Marco Aurélio Carvalho]

Complementing: 

using KiCAD 6 on Catalina and antialiasing settings to NO or HIGH Quality makes KiCAD perfect. No delay or slowness during resizing of windows or drawings SCH or PCB. Fast operation for designing SCH or PCB. Adjusting antialiasing for level FAST causes delays redrawing the windows but not resizing the drawings. So this level I do not use.

Running GLView I noticed that OpenGL level maximum at 120fps is 3.3, provided by Intel for HD3000 graphics board.

But running in Ventura (installed using open core) using KiCAD 6 or 7 causes delays for both windows or drawings resizing.

Running GLView in this case I noticed that the OpenGL driver is provided by Apple and testing rendering the speed is much slower.

I will install Big Sur with open core to see what happens but probably it will run slow too.

The solution , if possible, is to compile version 7 to run on Catalina as a minimum OS. In this case I may run with OpenGL drivers provided by Intel for the HD3000 board, instead of the Apple new drivers provided for more modern graphic boards. Is it possible to compile for Catalina then? 

[Seth Hillbrand]

We (the KiCad project) do not provide MacOS builds for older MacOS systems.  Usually we will maintain compatibility for the current and previous MacOS versions.  Sometimes, this may extend to the previous two MacOS versions but maintaining support for older MacOS is extremely difficult and would be a bad investment of limited developer time. 

That said, we provide build instructions on our website https://dev-docs.kicad.org/en/build/macos/ for users that require specialized versions.  These instructions may or may not work properly for older MacOS versions as they are only tested for current versions. 

Professional support services https://www.kicad.org/help/professional-support/ do provide the option for specialized builds and may be cost effective for you if you depend on newer KiCad with older hardware for your business.

Seth 

Seth Hillbrand

Lead Developer

+1-530-302-5483‬

Long Beach, CA

www.kipro-pcb.com    in...@kipro-pcb.com

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/0210cbff-fea7-4475-9f4e-1f184fcf8413n%40kicad.org.

[Marco Aurélio Carvalho]

Ok, thanks for the information.