Multi-touch surface project!

[Ryan Reggio]

Hey Everyone!

so a few of us (danny, budi, and myself) have been working on a multi-touch surface. this thing is going to be awesome! for those of you who don't know what a thmulti-touch surface is follow the link for a video on the Microsoft surface. link. so our version will do most of the stuff in the video save for the info transmission via proximity. so far we have the actual surface completed we just need to add a few things. like ir leds, a projector, a camera, and then close the table so no light gets underneath it. once all of that is done we then have the software to work on! so if this sounds like a project your interested in we are meeting up again this Sunday at 1pm! hope to see you there!

--
Ryan Reggio
rre...@gmail.com

[Joshua Madara]

This is great, guys!

j

[James Gray]

I'll try to be there. It's near the end of an academic quarter though, so it depends on how my robot is coming along.

James

--
da Vinci -- the Jigsaw Renaissance mailing list

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

dav...@jigsawrenaissance.org
http://groups.google.com/a/jigsawrenaissance.org/group/davinci

To unsubscribe, email davinci+u...@jigsawrenaissance.org

[Danny Dunn]

Added the LEDs i think we should use to the wiki. also a source for
lenses.

On Mar 3, 5:02 pm, Ryan Reggio <rreg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Everyone!
>
> so a few of us (danny, budi, and myself) have been working on a multi-touch
> surface. this thing is going to be awesome! for those of you who don't know
> what a thmulti-touch surface is follow the link for a video on the Microsoft

> surface. link <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VfpVYYQzHs&feature=related>.

> so our version will do most of the stuff in the video save for the info
> transmission via proximity. so far we have the actual surface completed we
> just need to add a few things. like ir leds, a projector, a camera, and then
> close the table so no light gets underneath it. once all of that is done we
> then have the software to work on! so if this sounds like a project your
> interested in we are meeting up again this Sunday at 1pm! hope to see you
> there!
>
> --
> Ryan Reggio

> rreg...@gmail.com

[Isa Farnik]

Lest we firget the hundreds of IR LEDs in those odd remotes in the
large bag above the air compressor.

[Wise Cricket]

Interesting points by James Gray:

"The camera really needs to be settled before the light source.
Effectiveness will drop by 5x to 10x or more if the LEDs don't match
the camera.

The Eye would be a better long-term solution but it would need to be
modded for IR. It's not the only camera option, just one I've used for
other (non-IR) projects. It was designed for CV applications, so it
has fairly nice features compared to many other similarly-priced
options.

There are a number of fun things to do with Wii remotes aside from the
table (like working through Johnny Lee's code)." ~ James

What do you think guys?

Here's the rest of discussion: http://wiki.jigren.org/Talk:Multi_Touch_Table

Budi
------------------------

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 3:05 AM, Budi Mulyo
<celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org> wrote:
No, we have not because our focus was still on getting IR LED and
projector. I also just found out your input on the discussion page.
Which solution would you recommend? PlayStation Eye (pretty cheap) or
Wii remote?

B

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 2:31 AM, James Gray <gra...@uw.edu> wrote:
Well at this point, the RSO project mostly amounts to me jumping up
and down and shouting loudly. The thing it needs most is more people,
particularly since my schedule tends to run to "packed and
unpredictable."

Working on the table sounds like a good SCOW activity. Has the camera
been addressed yet?

James




On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 2:19 AM, Budi Mulyo
<celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org> wrote:
Perhaps you could give me some specific examples of things I could do
to help you.

This is only my wishful thinking: The Multi Touch Table could be done
for the "new SCOW" event on the 23rd, and so we could show it off to
UW students the makerspace side of JR. In reality, we still need more
people to be actively involved on this project as well.

Budi

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 1:57 AM, James Gray <gra...@uw.edu> wrote:
We need warm bodies with student IDs for registration purposes.

Getting students involved and keeping them involved is harder, but
anyone interested in meeting people and doing stuff can participate on
that end. People with the motivation to instigate on an ongoing basis
will be very valuable regardless of enrollment status.

James


On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 1:48 AM, Budi Mulyo
<celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org> wrote:
I'm not a UW student anymore. How could I help you?

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 1:15 AM, James Gray <gra...@uw.edu> wrote:
The main things we need right now are:
Warm bodies with UW student status to serve as officers
People with time and motivation to run it and help get it going and
keep it going
I'm going to try to be at "new SCoW" on the 23rd. It falls during
spring break, so hopefully nothing will come up.

James




On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 12:14 AM, Budi Mulyo
<celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org> wrote:
I'm interested to learn how I could help promote JR by organizing UW
RSO (http://wiki.jigren.org/UW_RSO).

On Mar 14, 6:27 pm, Isa Farnik

<curiositycasua...@jigsawrenaissance.org> wrote:
> Lest we firget the hundreds of IR LEDs in those odd remotes in the
> large bag above the air compressor.
>

> On Mar 14, 2011, at 0:58, Danny Dunn <riverheart...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Added the LEDs i think we should use to the wiki. also a source for
> > lenses.
>
> > On Mar 3, 5:02 pm, Ryan Reggio <rreg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hey Everyone!
>
> >> so a few of us (danny, budi, and myself) have been working on a multi-touch
> >> surface. this thing is going to be awesome! for those of you who don't know
> >> what a thmulti-touch surface is follow the link for a video on the Microsoft
> >> surface. link <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VfpVYYQzHs&feature=related>.
> >> so our version will do most of the stuff in the video save for the info
> >> transmission via proximity. so far we have the actual surface completed we
> >> just need to add a few things. like ir leds, a projector, a camera, and then
> >> close the table so no light gets underneath it. once all of that is done we
> >> then have the software to work on! so if this sounds like a project your
> >> interested in we are meeting up again this Sunday at 1pm! hope to see you
> >> there!
>
> >> --
> >> Ryan Reggio
> >> rreg...@gmail.com
>
> > --
> > da Vinci -- the Jigsaw Renaissance mailing list
>
> > The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).
>

> > davi...@jigsawrenaissance.org
> >http://groups.google.com/a/jigsawrenaissance.org/group/davinci
>
> > To unsubscribe, email davinci+unsubscr...@jigsawrenaissance.org

[Danny Dunn]

Update: Willow ordered the LEDs, I ordered the power stuff.

The leds need to be grouped into strings of 8 to make 12 volts forward
per string. A 19 volt laptop psu will power all the strings. Current
limiting will be performed by 82 ohm 1 watt resistors. This leaves a
38% margin of safety on the resistor dissipation and a 20 percent
margin on the LEDs. The resistors are carbon film which almost never
fails short circiut, so the LEDs are very safe and should last longer
than rated.

All of this was ordered today. as soon as the LEDs get here and the
guide is made we can get to work soldering.

I think we should wire the Led modules in around 4 sectors so that we
dont have all our current(2.25 amps) on just one ground wire.

How many voulunteers do we have for the 200+ solder joints we need to
make?

On Mar 3, 5:02 pm, Ryan Reggio <rreg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Everyone!
>
> so a few of us (danny, budi, and myself) have been working on a multi-touch
> surface. this thing is going to be awesome! for those of you who don't know

> what a thmulti-touch surface is follow the linstk for a video on the Microsoft
> surface. link <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VfpVYYQzHs&feature=related>.

> so our version will do most of the stuff in the video save for the info
> transmission via proximity. so far we have the actual surface completed we
> just need to add a few things. like ir leds, a projector, a camera, and then
> close the table so no light gets underneath it. once all of that is done we
> then have the software to work on! so if this sounds like a project your
> interested in we are meeting up again this Sunday at 1pm! hope to see you
> there!
>
> --
> Ryan Reggio

> rreg...@gmail.com

[Willow Brugh]

I enjoy a brainless soldering session on occasion. Count me in. Anyone who has needed practice, this is definitely the time to hone your skills.

Willow Brugh

director, Jigsaw Renaissance
http://jigsawrenaissance.org
organizer, Seattle H+ Discussion Group
http://st.imul.us

[Willow Brugh]

And update on the LEDs that I just got:

Your purchase order number 4010257 is being processed by our warehouse and will ship out on our next business day.

We appreciate you placing this order through our website.

You requested your order be shipped by UPS GROUND SERVICE.

To ensure that you receive your order on the day you expected it, Mouser has upgraded your order to ship UPS 3 DAY SELECT at no additional charge to you.

Willow Brugh

director, Jigsaw Renaissance
http://jigsawrenaissance.org
organizer, Seattle H+ Discussion Group
http://st.imul.us

[Danny Dunn]

Update in shipping: resistors should be here on time, PSU not so much. They said march 30-april 4.

Not too big a deal as it only cost 2.95 and it is just and standard 19v laptop psu. I'm building an atx conversion that can power a few strings for testing, so it shouldn't hold up progress much.

[Budi Mulyo]

For the LED channel around the edge of the glass, I suggest that we
use plain peg board that has perfect size holes for LED that are 1"
apart. Alan Geleynse use this for another project and he used hot glue
to hold LEDs in and then bent the leads and soldered them.

Alan Geleynse <tr...@ra726.net> wrote:
>
> Yep, it was me.
>
> We used just plain peg board.  You can get sheets of it at any home improvement store.  It is normally used for walls that you can hang things from, but the holes are pretty much perfect for LEDs.  The holes are 1 inch apart.
>
> We hot glued the LEDs in to hold them in place and then bent the leads and soldered to them.
>
> Hopefully that works for you, let me know how it goes or if you need to know anything else.
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 3:19 PM, Budi Mulyo <celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alan,
>> I assume it was you and your wife Britanny who came to the SCoW last night. Nice to meet you. I just remember about your LED project while building the multitouch surface table because we are trying to build a channel of IR LED. I wonder if you could give us pointer on how to mount 150 LED on the side of the glass perfectly. I wonder if the material you brought last night could work. What is it called?
>> Budi
>> 206.571.8430

--
Budi Mulyo
206.571.8430

[Budi Mulyo]

Hi,
Thank you everyone who has contributed to this Multitouch project
especially to Nick, Rehana Rodrigues, Alan Widmer, Danny Dunn, Wim
Lewis, Ryan Reggio, Patrick Roush, Amit Sett, Jonny Fosnight, and Alan
Geleynse.
We were making quite remarkable progress during SCoW (Soldering and
Coding on Wednesday) Event.

Tomorrow at 1-3pm, we are going to continue again. You are welcome to join us.

Please check out the wiki page: http://wiki.jigren.org/Multi_Touch_Table

Budi Mulyo
1.206.571.8430

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Budi Mulyo

--
Jigsaw Renaissance is a learning and making community. For more
information about JR (http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/):
you could visit our wiki page at: http://wiki.jigren.org/Starting_Classes
or this page: http://www.element14.com/community/groups/jigsaw-renaissance/blog/2011/03/25/who-we-are

Contact us, so we can chat about scheduling something cool together. Thanks!

Ultimate Regards,

--
Budi Mulyo
206.571.8430

[Ned Konz]

On Mar 25, 2011, at 11:14 PM, Danny Dunn wrote:

> Update in shipping: resistors should be here on time, PSU not so much. They said march 30-april 4.
>
> Not too big a deal as it only cost 2.95 and it is just and standard 19v laptop psu. I'm building an atx conversion that can power a few strings for testing, so it shouldn't hold up progress much.
>

I have 19V supplies if you need one.

[Budi Mulyo]

Thanks Ned. I'll go check out. Are you home? I'll stop by in about an hour.

Budi Mulyo
206.571.8430

--

[Budi Mulyo]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jonny Fosnight <jfos...@live.com>
Date: Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 3:03 PM
Subject: Touch Table Project
To: Celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org

Hi, This is Jonny

I figured it would be easier to communicate via email instead of the
blog.  For the projector I used one that I was able to borrow from
somebody for a few days.  The one that I used was a pretty basic, $500
one.  I put it on a board that was tilted down slightly (15 degrees),
and had it hit a mirror to shine up toward the top.  But I also built
the touch table to specifically work with that one projector.

For the web cam I used a Sony Move cam.  They’re cheap ($40) and have
a high frame rate (60fps).  A lot of people in the Touch Table
community use the Move cams, so there is lots of help on the internet.
You can even buy the cam already modded specifically for touch
tables.  (http://peauproductions.com/store/)  I didn’t find the
website soon enough to order the webcam from, but I did buy the IR
lens from him.

I noticed on the wiki that you had listed a piece of Glass.  Typical
glass won’t work properly with a set up like what your doing (with the
leds shining in through the sides (FTIR))  The reason is that glass is
specially made to block IR emitted from the sun.  Most often Plexiglas
(acrylic) is used or you can change to a Rear DI detection method.
However this requires a completely different setup for the IR LEDs and
requires that everything be completely enclosed.
(http://peauproductions.com/reardi.html )

With a FTIR setup, (like you’re doing (I think)) you have to put a
special coating on the Vellum before it will work.
(http://nuigroup.com/forums/viewthread/2383/ )  I found this to be
harder than I thought, and ended up having to try several times.  If
you use the Rear DI setup, the special coating is not needed, which
can be an advantage.  (I also remember as I was finishing up my build
somebody of the NUI Group forums had found a different product that
you just spay on the acrylic, and acts the same as coating the vellum,
only was much easier to do.  I don’t remember what it was called, but
if I find it I will let you know.

I mentioned that I used PYMT, which is based on python, to program my
touch table, however I was looking at the site and saw that they are
no longer developing this, but have moved to an new program called
Kivy. (http://kivy.org) From what I read it is built on PYMT, but is
much faster and more stable.  (There are also other programs that use
pretty much any programing language you want.  I found it easiest to
use PYMT because it is based in Python and that is what I am most
familiar with.)

Well hope this helps, this website looks like it has a lot of really
good info on it.  http://peauproductions.com/learn.html  If I think of
more I will send it your way.

--

[Daniel Dunn]

Theese guys are using our same leds.
http://www.diniro.net/fabbblog/multitouch-display-2.html

On 4/14/2011 10:45 PM, Budi Mulyo wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jonny Fosnight<jfos...@live.com>
> Date: Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 3:03 PM
> Subject: Touch Table Project
> To: Celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org
>
>
> Hi, This is Jonny
>
> I figured it would be easier to communicate via email instead of the
> blog. For the projector I used one that I was able to borrow from
> somebody for a few days. The one that I used was a pretty basic, $500
> one. I put it on a board that was tilted down slightly (15 degrees),
> and had it hit a mirror to shine up toward the top. But I also built
> the touch table to specifically work with that one projector.
>

> For the web cam I used a Sony Move cam. They�re cheap ($40) and have

> a high frame rate (60fps). A lot of people in the Touch Table
> community use the Move cams, so there is lots of help on the internet.
> You can even buy the cam already modded specifically for touch

> tables. (http://peauproductions.com/store/) I didn�t find the

> website soon enough to order the webcam from, but I did buy the IR
> lens from him.
>
> I noticed on the wiki that you had listed a piece of Glass. Typical

> glass won�t work properly with a set up like what your doing (with the

> leds shining in through the sides (FTIR)) The reason is that glass is
> specially made to block IR emitted from the sun. Most often Plexiglas
> (acrylic) is used or you can change to a Rear DI detection method.
> However this requires a completely different setup for the IR LEDs and
> requires that everything be completely enclosed.
> (http://peauproductions.com/reardi.html )
>

> With a FTIR setup, (like you�re doing (I think)) you have to put a

> special coating on the Vellum before it will work.
> (http://nuigroup.com/forums/viewthread/2383/ ) I found this to be
> harder than I thought, and ended up having to try several times. If
> you use the Rear DI setup, the special coating is not needed, which
> can be an advantage. (I also remember as I was finishing up my build
> somebody of the NUI Group forums had found a different product that
> you just spay on the acrylic, and acts the same as coating the vellum,

> only was much easier to do. I don�t remember what it was called, but

[Budi Mulyo]

Hi Danny,

Let's test it again with TUIO and also let's check their (and our) hardware design more thoroughly. 

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 4:35 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Theese guys are using our same leds. http://www.diniro.net/fabbblog/multitouch-display-2.html

On 4/14/2011 10:45 PM, Budi Mulyo wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jonny Fosnight<jfos...@live.com>
Date: Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 3:03 PM
Subject: Touch Table Project
To: Celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org


Hi, This is Jonny

I figured it would be easier to communicate via email instead of the
blog.  For the projector I used one that I was able to borrow from
somebody for a few days.  The one that I used was a pretty basic, $500
one.  I put it on a board that was tilted down slightly (15 degrees),
and had it hit a mirror to shine up toward the top.  But I also built
the touch table to specifically work with that one projector.

For the web cam I used a Sony Move cam.  They’re cheap ($40) and have

a high frame rate (60fps).  A lot of people in the Touch Table
community use the Move cams, so there is lots of help on the internet.
 You can even buy the cam already modded specifically for touch

tables.  (http://peauproductions.com/store/)  I didn’t find the

website soon enough to order the webcam from, but I did buy the IR
lens from him.

I noticed on the wiki that you had listed a piece of Glass.  Typical

glass won’t work properly with a set up like what your doing (with the

leds shining in through the sides (FTIR))  The reason is that glass is
specially made to block IR emitted from the sun.  Most often Plexiglas
(acrylic) is used or you can change to a Rear DI detection method.
However this requires a completely different setup for the IR LEDs and
requires that everything be completely enclosed.
(http://peauproductions.com/reardi.html )

With a FTIR setup, (like you’re doing (I think)) you have to put a

special coating on the Vellum before it will work.
(http://nuigroup.com/forums/viewthread/2383/ )  I found this to be
harder than I thought, and ended up having to try several times.  If
you use the Rear DI setup, the special coating is not needed, which
can be an advantage.  (I also remember as I was finishing up my build
somebody of the NUI Group forums had found a different product that
you just spay on the acrylic, and acts the same as coating the vellum,

only was much easier to do.  I don’t remember what it was called, but

--

Jigsaw Renaissance is a learning and making community.

For more information about JR (http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/),

[Daniel Dunn]

On 4/29/2011 4:40 AM, Budi Mulyo wrote:
Sounds like a good idea. I'm a bit concerned with a few discussions on the NUI group forums saying that glass does not work as well as acrylic.
As far as i have been able to calculate, the leds have a half angle of 40 degrees which is within the angle for glass. it looks like we need to use channels like we were doing with the tinfoil.� also, maybe a better IR filter or something? the entire thing is lit up even with the lights off which i think is a problem. the other ones were dark without the leds.

Hi Danny,

Let's test it again with TUIO and also let's check their (and our) hardware design more�thoroughly.�

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 4:35 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Theese guys are using our same leds. http://www.diniro.net/fabbblog/multitouch-display-2.html

On 4/14/2011 10:45 PM, Budi Mulyo wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jonny Fosnight<jfos...@live.com>
Date: Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 3:03 PM
Subject: Touch Table Project
To: Celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org


Hi, This is Jonny

I figured it would be easier to communicate via email instead of the

blog. �For the projector I used one that I was able to borrow from
somebody for a few days. �The one that I used was a pretty basic, $500
one. �I put it on a board that was tilted down slightly (15 degrees),
and had it hit a mirror to shine up toward the top. �But I also built

the touch table to specifically work with that one projector.

For the web cam I used a Sony Move cam. �They�re cheap ($40) and have
a high frame rate (60fps). �A lot of people in the Touch Table

community use the Move cams, so there is lots of help on the internet.

�You can even buy the cam already modded specifically for touch
tables. �(http://peauproductions.com/store/) �I didn�t find the

website soon enough to order the webcam from, but I did buy the IR
lens from him.

I noticed on the wiki that you had listed a piece of Glass. �Typical
glass won�t work properly with a set up like what your doing (with the
leds shining in through the sides (FTIR)) �The reason is that glass is
specially made to block IR emitted from the sun. �Most often Plexiglas

(acrylic) is used or you can change to a Rear DI detection method.
However this requires a completely different setup for the IR LEDs and
requires that everything be completely enclosed.
(http://peauproductions.com/reardi.html )

With a FTIR setup, (like you�re doing (I think)) you have to put a

special coating on the Vellum before it will work.

(http://nuigroup.com/forums/viewthread/2383/ ) �I found this to be
harder than I thought, and ended up having to try several times. �If

you use the Rear DI setup, the special coating is not needed, which

can be an advantage. �(I also remember as I was finishing up my build

somebody of the NUI Group forums had found a different product that
you just spay on the acrylic, and acts the same as coating the vellum,

only was much easier to do. �I don�t remember what it was called, but

if I find it I will let you know.

I mentioned that I used PYMT, which is based on python, to program my
touch table, however I was looking at the site and saw that they are
no longer developing this, but have moved to an new program called
Kivy. (http://kivy.org) From what I read it is built on PYMT, but is

much faster and more stable. �(There are also other programs that use
pretty much any programing language you want. �I found it easiest to

use PYMT because it is based in Python and that is what I am most
familiar with.)

Well hope this helps, this website looks like it has a lot of really

good info on it. �http://peauproductions.com/learn.html �If I think of

more I will send it your way.

�

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

�
dav...@jigsawrenaissance.org
http://groups.google.com/a/jigsawrenaissance.org/group/davinci
�
To unsubscribe, email davinci+u...@jigsawrenaissance.org

[Budi Mulyo]

Hi Jonny,

we're having trouble getting clean feedback from IR during testing phase because IR seems too scatter (leaks to every angle and directions including the top and bottom). We notice that our hand were reflecting the light even without touching the glass (and it doesn't do anything when we touch the surface). Isn't the light wave should stays inside the glass (bouncing between the glass surface) until we touch it which change the angle of reflection and send the wave straight through the glass down to the camera? Perhaps you could help us trouble shoot it. 

We suspect the problem arise for these reasons:

- the LED that we are using have wider angle, but it seems ok according to http://tools.nuigroup.com/FTIR/ (although we are using glass instead of acrylic or polycarbonate)

- the channel is not butt in against the glass edges, so the angle is not 0 degree 

more photo here:

http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/many-hands-make-light-emitting-diodes-work/

http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/what-would-jr-do-wwjrd/

Before switching to acrylic, next week, we will focus on enclosing it completely, and adding reflective U-channel around the edges. We will focus on getting enclosure materials including some kind of Aquarium sealant for the edges since we need those anyway to complete the project.

Any thought?

Budi

206.571.8430

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 4/29/2011 4:40 AM, Budi Mulyo wrote:
Sounds like a good idea. I'm a bit concerned with a few discussions on the NUI group forums saying that glass does not work as well as acrylic.

As far as i have been able to calculate, the leds have a half angle of 40 degrees which is within the angle for glass. it looks like we need to use channels like we were doing with the tinfoil.  also, maybe a better IR filter or something? the entire thing is lit up even with the lights off which i think is a problem. the other ones were dark without the leds.

Hi Danny,

Let's test it again with TUIO and also let's check their (and our) hardware design more thoroughly. 

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 4:35 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Theese guys are using our same leds. http://www.diniro.net/fabbblog/multitouch-display-2.html

On 4/14/2011 10:45 PM, Budi Mulyo wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jonny Fosnight<jfos...@live.com>
Date: Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 3:03 PM
Subject: Touch Table Project
To: Celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org


Hi, This is Jonny

I figured it would be easier to communicate via email instead of the

blog.  For the projector I used one that I was able to borrow from
somebody for a few days.  The one that I used was a pretty basic, $500
one.  I put it on a board that was tilted down slightly (15 degrees),
and had it hit a mirror to shine up toward the top.  But I also built

the touch table to specifically work with that one projector.

For the web cam I used a Sony Move cam.  They’re cheap ($40) and have
a high frame rate (60fps).  A lot of people in the Touch Table

community use the Move cams, so there is lots of help on the internet.

 You can even buy the cam already modded specifically for touch

tables.  (http://peauproductions.com/store/)  I didn’t find the

website soon enough to order the webcam from, but I did buy the IR
lens from him.

I noticed on the wiki that you had listed a piece of Glass.  Typical
glass won’t work properly with a set up like what your doing (with the
leds shining in through the sides (FTIR))  The reason is that glass is
specially made to block IR emitted from the sun.  Most often Plexiglas

(acrylic) is used or you can change to a Rear DI detection method.
However this requires a completely different setup for the IR LEDs and
requires that everything be completely enclosed.
(http://peauproductions.com/reardi.html )

With a FTIR setup, (like you’re doing (I think)) you have to put a

special coating on the Vellum before it will work.

(http://nuigroup.com/forums/viewthread/2383/ )  I found this to be
harder than I thought, and ended up having to try several times.  If

you use the Rear DI setup, the special coating is not needed, which

can be an advantage.  (I also remember as I was finishing up my build

somebody of the NUI Group forums had found a different product that
you just spay on the acrylic, and acts the same as coating the vellum,

only was much easier to do.  I don’t remember what it was called, but

if I find it I will let you know.

I mentioned that I used PYMT, which is based on python, to program my
touch table, however I was looking at the site and saw that they are
no longer developing this, but have moved to an new program called
Kivy. (http://kivy.org) From what I read it is built on PYMT, but is

much faster and more stable.  (There are also other programs that use
pretty much any programing language you want.  I found it easiest to

use PYMT because it is based in Python and that is what I am most
familiar with.)

Well hope this helps, this website looks like it has a lot of really

good info on it.  http://peauproductions.com/learn.html  If I think of

[Ryan Reggio]

acrylic is not super expensive, however i know we have had some success with the glass we currently have... we have to keep in mind that the only reason we are using the glass panel is because it was already in the space, if it turns out that it will not work for our purposes, so be it. ultimately it comes down to what will work. i know tap plastics is a local retailer for acrylic and the people there were knowledgeable about what the plastic is and is not capable of. since we currently have no idea if the glass is ir resistant or not lets just assume it is for now and work from that (being the worst case scenario is that we get a piece of acrylic in the dimensions of the glass). the only thing that i would be worried about is the special coating johnny talked about. i haven't heard that mentioned anywhere else, but it sounds like it worked for him so it might be another thing we talk about on Thursday. also after i sat down and looked at how the leds were wired up i found out that while each string is wired up in the correct polarity it seems each string has its polarity facing a different direction. i think that for the sake of our sanity we should fix it so that the polarity is facing the same direction all the way around. so it sounds like our schedule for thursday is as follows;

-talk about the camera (sony move cam)

-talk about acrylic (or random other poly-carb) vs glass

-fix the leds (and mount in channel)

-talk about the projector (the overhead is cool but not very functional, its super dim)

let me know if I'm missing anything, although that seems like it should fill 3 hours adequately. 

-Ryan

Ryan Reggio
rre...@gmail.com

[Daniel Dunn]

I think Ryan's schedule looks good. But one big issue i had with the current design is that the camera is showing a lot of light, even with no LEDs or fingers or anythng except ambient.
This is a big problem i think. Any ideas on how to solve it? if we ever want to take this outside it could be an even bigger problem.
So whata ya think? Better camera/filter? covering? modulation and shutters?


On 5/10/2011 3:49 AM, Ryan Reggio wrote:

acrylic is not super expensive, however i know we have had some success with the glass we currently have... we have to keep in mind that the only reason we are using the glass panel is because it was already in the space, if it turns out that it will not work for our purposes, so be it.�ultimately�it comes down to what will work. i know tap plastics is a local retailer for acrylic and the people there were�knowledgeable about what the plastic is and is not capable of. since we�currently�have no idea if the glass is ir resistant or not lets just assume it is for now and work from that (being the worst case�scenario�is that we get a piece of acrylic in the�dimensions�of the glass). the only thing that i would be worried about is the�special�coating johnny talked about. i haven't heard that mentioned anywhere else, but it sounds like it worked for him so it might be another thing we talk about on�Thursday. also after i sat down and looked at how the leds were wired up i found out that while each string is wired up in the correct polarity it seems each string has its polarity�facing�a different direction. i think that for the sake of our sanity we should fix it so that the polarity is facing the same direction all the way�around. so it sounds like our schedule for thursday is as follows;

-talk about the camera (sony move cam)

-talk about�acrylic�(or random other poly-carb) vs glass

-fix the leds (and mount in channel)

-talk about the projector (the overhead is cool but not very functional, its super dim)

let me know if I'm missing anything, although that seems like it should fill 3 hours adequately.�

-Ryan

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Budi Mulyo <celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org> wrote:

Hi Jonny,

we're having trouble getting clean feedback from IR during testing phase because�IR seems too scatter (leaks to every angle and directions including the top and bottom).�We notice that our hand were reflecting the light even without touching the glass (and it doesn't do anything when we touch the surface). Isn't the light wave should stays inside the glass (bouncing between the glass surface)�until we touch it which change the angle of reflection and send the wave straight through the glass down to the camera?�Perhaps you could help us trouble shoot it.�

We�suspect the problem arise for these reasons:

- the LED that we are using have wider angle, but it seems ok according to�http://tools.nuigroup.com/FTIR/�(although�we are using glass instead of acrylic or polycarbonate)

- the channel is not butt in against the glass edges, so the angle is not 0 degree�

more photo here:

http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/many-hands-make-light-emitting-diodes-work/

http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/what-would-jr-do-wwjrd/

Before switching to acrylic,�next week,�we will focus on�enclosing it completely, and adding reflective U-channel around the edges. We will focus on getting enclosure materials including some kind of Aquarium sealant for the edges since we need those anyway to complete the project.

Any thought?

Budi

206.571.8430

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 4/29/2011 4:40 AM, Budi Mulyo wrote:
Sounds like a good idea. I'm a bit concerned with a few discussions on the NUI group forums saying that glass does not work as well as acrylic.

As far as i have been able to calculate, the leds have a half angle of 40 degrees which is within the angle for glass. it looks like we need to use channels like we were doing with the tinfoil.� also, maybe a better IR filter or something? the entire thing is lit up even with the lights off which i think is a problem. the other ones were dark without the leds.

Hi Danny,

Let's test it again with TUIO and also let's check their (and our) hardware design more�thoroughly.�

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 4:35 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Theese guys are using our same leds. http://www.diniro.net/fabbblog/multitouch-display-2.html

On 4/14/2011 10:45 PM, Budi Mulyo wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jonny Fosnight<jfos...@live.com>
Date: Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 3:03 PM
Subject: Touch Table Project
To: Celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org


Hi, This is Jonny

I figured it would be easier to communicate via email instead of the

blog. �For the projector I used one that I was able to borrow from
somebody for a few days. �The one that I used was a pretty basic, $500
one. �I put it on a board that was tilted down slightly (15 degrees),
and had it hit a mirror to shine up toward the top. �But I also built

the touch table to specifically work with that one projector.

For the web cam I used a Sony Move cam. �They�re cheap ($40) and have
a high frame rate (60fps). �A lot of people in the Touch Table

community use the Move cams, so there is lots of help on the internet.

�You can even buy the cam already modded specifically for touch

tables. �(http://peauproductions.com/store/) �I didn�t find the

website soon enough to order the webcam from, but I did buy the IR
lens from him.

I noticed on the wiki that you had listed a piece of Glass. �Typical
glass won�t work properly with a set up like what your doing (with the
leds shining in through the sides (FTIR)) �The reason is that glass is
specially made to block IR emitted from the sun. �Most often Plexiglas

(acrylic) is used or you can change to a Rear DI detection method.
However this requires a completely different setup for the IR LEDs and
requires that everything be completely enclosed.
(http://peauproductions.com/reardi.html )

With a FTIR setup, (like you�re doing (I think)) you have to put a

special coating on the Vellum before it will work.

(http://nuigroup.com/forums/viewthread/2383/ ) �I found this to be
harder than I thought, and ended up having to try several times. �If

you use the Rear DI setup, the special coating is not needed, which

can be an advantage. �(I also remember as I was finishing up my build

somebody of the NUI Group forums had found a different product that
you just spay on the acrylic, and acts the same as coating the vellum,

only was much easier to do. �I don�t remember what it was called, but

if I find it I will let you know.

I mentioned that I used PYMT, which is based on python, to program my
touch table, however I was looking at the site and saw that they are
no longer developing this, but have moved to an new program called
Kivy. (http://kivy.org) From what I read it is built on PYMT, but is

much faster and more stable. �(There are also other programs that use
pretty much any programing language you want. �I found it easiest to

use PYMT because it is based in Python and that is what I am most
familiar with.)

Well hope this helps, this website looks like it has a lot of really

good info on it. �http://peauproductions.com/learn.html �If I think of

--

�

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

�
dav...@jigsawrenaissance.org
http://groups.google.com/a/jigsawrenaissance.org/group/davinci
�

To unsubscribe, email davinci+u...@jigsawrenaissance.org

--
da Vinci -- the Jigsaw Renaissance mailing list

�

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

�
dav...@jigsawrenaissance.org
http://groups.google.com/a/jigsawrenaissance.org/group/davinci
�

To unsubscribe, email davinci+u...@jigsawrenaissance.org

--
Jigsaw Renaissance is a learning and making community.

For more information about JR (http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/),
visit our wiki page at: http://wiki.jigren.org/Starting_Classes
or this page: http://www.element14.com/community/groups/jigsaw-renaissance/blog/2011/03/25/who-we-are

Contact us, so we can chat about scheduling something cool together. Thanks!

Ultimate Regards,

--
Budi Mulyo
206.571.8430

--
da Vinci -- the Jigsaw Renaissance mailing list

�

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

�
dav...@jigsawrenaissance.org
http://groups.google.com/a/jigsawrenaissance.org/group/davinci
�

To unsubscribe, email davinci+u...@jigsawrenaissance.org

--
Ryan Reggio
rre...@gmail.com

--
da Vinci -- the Jigsaw Renaissance mailing list

�

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

[Budi Mulyo]

I'd say we just need to replace the bulb on the overhead projector (about $15-$20), and we should test the IR with U-channel attached to our glass first before venturing to other alternative solutions (new webcam, acrylic, new projector). Let's finish and get it to work first before upgrading.

Budi Mulyo

206.571.8430

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think Ryan's schedule looks good. But one big issue i had with the current design is that the camera is showing a lot of light, even with no LEDs or fingers or anythng except ambient.
This is a big problem i think. Any ideas on how to solve it? if we ever want to take this outside it could be an even bigger problem.
So whata ya think? Better camera/filter? covering? modulation and shutters?

On 5/10/2011 3:49 AM, Ryan Reggio wrote:

acrylic is not super expensive, however i know we have had some success with the glass we currently have... we have to keep in mind that the only reason we are using the glass panel is because it was already in the space, if it turns out that it will not work for our purposes, so be it. ultimately it comes down to what will work. i know tap plastics is a local retailer for acrylic and the people there were knowledgeable about what the plastic is and is not capable of. since we currently have no idea if the glass is ir resistant or not lets just assume it is for now and work from that (being the worst case scenario is that we get a piece of acrylic in the dimensions of the glass). the only thing that i would be worried about is the special coating johnny talked about. i haven't heard that mentioned anywhere else, but it sounds like it worked for him so it might be another thing we talk about on Thursday. also after i sat down and looked at how the leds were wired up i found out that while each string is wired up in the correct polarity it seems each string has its polarity facing a different direction. i think that for the sake of our sanity we should fix it so that the polarity is facing the same direction all the way around. so it sounds like our schedule for thursday is as follows;

-talk about the camera (sony move cam)

-talk about acrylic (or random other poly-carb) vs glass

-fix the leds (and mount in channel)

-talk about the projector (the overhead is cool but not very functional, its super dim)

let me know if I'm missing anything, although that seems like it should fill 3 hours adequately. 

-Ryan

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Budi Mulyo <celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org> wrote:

Hi Jonny,

we're having trouble getting clean feedback from IR during testing phase because IR seems too scatter (leaks to every angle and directions including the top and bottom). We notice that our hand were reflecting the light even without touching the glass (and it doesn't do anything when we touch the surface). Isn't the light wave should stays inside the glass (bouncing between the glass surface) until we touch it which change the angle of reflection and send the wave straight through the glass down to the camera? Perhaps you could help us trouble shoot it. 

We suspect the problem arise for these reasons:

- the LED that we are using have wider angle, but it seems ok according to http://tools.nuigroup.com/FTIR/ (although we are using glass instead of acrylic or polycarbonate)

- the channel is not butt in against the glass edges, so the angle is not 0 degree 

more photo here:

http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/many-hands-make-light-emitting-diodes-work/

http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/what-would-jr-do-wwjrd/

Before switching to acrylic, next week, we will focus on enclosing it completely, and adding reflective U-channel around the edges. We will focus on getting enclosure materials including some kind of Aquarium sealant for the edges since we need those anyway to complete the project.

Any thought?

Budi

206.571.8430

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 4/29/2011 4:40 AM, Budi Mulyo wrote:
Sounds like a good idea. I'm a bit concerned with a few discussions on the NUI group forums saying that glass does not work as well as acrylic.

As far as i have been able to calculate, the leds have a half angle of 40 degrees which is within the angle for glass. it looks like we need to use channels like we were doing with the tinfoil.  also, maybe a better IR filter or something? the entire thing is lit up even with the lights off which i think is a problem. the other ones were dark without the leds.

Hi Danny,

Let's test it again with TUIO and also let's check their (and our) hardware design more thoroughly. 

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 4:35 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Theese guys are using our same leds. http://www.diniro.net/fabbblog/multitouch-display-2.html

On 4/14/2011 10:45 PM, Budi Mulyo wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jonny Fosnight<jfos...@live.com>
Date: Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 3:03 PM
Subject: Touch Table Project
To: Celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org


Hi, This is Jonny

I figured it would be easier to communicate via email instead of the

blog.  For the projector I used one that I was able to borrow from
somebody for a few days.  The one that I used was a pretty basic, $500
one.  I put it on a board that was tilted down slightly (15 degrees),
and had it hit a mirror to shine up toward the top.  But I also built

the touch table to specifically work with that one projector.

For the web cam I used a Sony Move cam.  They’re cheap ($40) and have
a high frame rate (60fps).  A lot of people in the Touch Table

community use the Move cams, so there is lots of help on the internet.

 You can even buy the cam already modded specifically for touch

tables.  (http://peauproductions.com/store/)  I didn’t find the

website soon enough to order the webcam from, but I did buy the IR
lens from him.

I noticed on the wiki that you had listed a piece of Glass.  Typical
glass won’t work properly with a set up like what your doing (with the
leds shining in through the sides (FTIR))  The reason is that glass is
specially made to block IR emitted from the sun.  Most often Plexiglas

(acrylic) is used or you can change to a Rear DI detection method.
However this requires a completely different setup for the IR LEDs and
requires that everything be completely enclosed.
(http://peauproductions.com/reardi.html )

With a FTIR setup, (like you’re doing (I think)) you have to put a

special coating on the Vellum before it will work.

(http://nuigroup.com/forums/viewthread/2383/ )  I found this to be
harder than I thought, and ended up having to try several times.  If

you use the Rear DI setup, the special coating is not needed, which

can be an advantage.  (I also remember as I was finishing up my build

somebody of the NUI Group forums had found a different product that
you just spay on the acrylic, and acts the same as coating the vellum,

only was much easier to do.  I don’t remember what it was called, but

if I find it I will let you know.

I mentioned that I used PYMT, which is based on python, to program my
touch table, however I was looking at the site and saw that they are
no longer developing this, but have moved to an new program called
Kivy. (http://kivy.org) From what I read it is built on PYMT, but is

much faster and more stable.  (There are also other programs that use
pretty much any programing language you want.  I found it easiest to

use PYMT because it is based in Python and that is what I am most
familiar with.)

Well hope this helps, this website looks like it has a lot of really

good info on it.  http://peauproductions.com/learn.html  If I think of

--
Ryan Reggio
rre...@gmail.com

[Daniel Dunn]

Good idea. also, we should do a test of the FTIR in total darkness this thursday.

On 5/10/2011 7:52 AM, Budi Mulyo wrote:

I'd say we just need to replace the bulb on the overhead projector�(about $15-$20), and we should test the IR with U-channel attached to our glass first before venturing to other alternative solutions (new webcam, acrylic, new projector). Let's finish and get it to work first before upgrading.

Budi Mulyo

206.571.8430

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think Ryan's schedule looks good. But one big issue i had with the current design is that the camera is showing a lot of light, even with no LEDs or fingers or anythng except ambient.
This is a big problem i think. Any ideas on how to solve it? if we ever want to take this outside it could be an even bigger problem.
So whata ya think? Better camera/filter? covering? modulation and shutters?

On 5/10/2011 3:49 AM, Ryan Reggio wrote:

acrylic is not super expensive, however i know we have had some success with the glass we currently have... we have to keep in mind that the only reason we are using the glass panel is because it was already in the space, if it turns out that it will not work for our purposes, so be it.�ultimately�it comes down to what will work. i know tap plastics is a local retailer for acrylic and the people there were�knowledgeable about what the plastic is and is not capable of. since we�currently�have no idea if the glass is ir resistant or not lets just assume it is for now and work from that (being the worst case�scenario�is that we get a piece of acrylic in the�dimensions�of the glass). the only thing that i would be worried about is the�special�coating johnny talked about. i haven't heard that mentioned anywhere else, but it sounds like it worked for him so it might be another thing we talk about on�Thursday. also after i sat down and looked at how the leds were wired up i found out that while each string is wired up in the correct polarity it seems each string has its polarity�facing�a different direction. i think that for the sake of our sanity we should fix it so that the polarity is facing the same direction all the way�around. so it sounds like our schedule for thursday is as follows;

-talk about the camera (sony move cam)

-talk about�acrylic�(or random other poly-carb) vs glass

-fix the leds (and mount in channel)

-talk about the projector (the overhead is cool but not very functional, its super dim)

let me know if I'm missing anything, although that seems like it should fill 3 hours adequately.�

-Ryan

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Budi Mulyo <celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org> wrote:

Hi Jonny,

we're having trouble getting clean feedback from IR during testing phase because�IR seems too scatter (leaks to every angle and directions including the top and bottom).�We notice that our hand were reflecting the light even without touching the glass (and it doesn't do anything when we touch the surface). Isn't the light wave should stays inside the glass (bouncing between the glass surface)�until we touch it which change the angle of reflection and send the wave straight through the glass down to the camera?�Perhaps you could help us trouble shoot it.�

We�suspect the problem arise for these reasons:

- the LED that we are using have wider angle, but it seems ok according to�http://tools.nuigroup.com/FTIR/�(although�we are using glass instead of acrylic or polycarbonate)

- the channel is not butt in against the glass edges, so the angle is not 0 degree�

more photo here:

http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/many-hands-make-light-emitting-diodes-work/

http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/what-would-jr-do-wwjrd/

Before switching to acrylic,�next week,�we will focus on�enclosing it completely, and adding reflective U-channel around the edges. We will focus on getting enclosure materials including some kind of Aquarium sealant for the edges since we need those anyway to complete the project.

Any thought?

Budi

206.571.8430

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 4/29/2011 4:40 AM, Budi Mulyo wrote:
Sounds like a good idea. I'm a bit concerned with a few discussions on the NUI group forums saying that glass does not work as well as acrylic.

As far as i have been able to calculate, the leds have a half angle of 40 degrees which is within the angle for glass. it looks like we need to use channels like we were doing with the tinfoil.� also, maybe a better IR filter or something? the entire thing is lit up even with the lights off which i think is a problem. the other ones were dark without the leds.

Hi Danny,

Let's test it again with TUIO and also let's check their (and our) hardware design more�thoroughly.�

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 4:35 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Theese guys are using our same leds. http://www.diniro.net/fabbblog/multitouch-display-2.html

On 4/14/2011 10:45 PM, Budi Mulyo wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jonny Fosnight<jfos...@live.com>
Date: Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 3:03 PM
Subject: Touch Table Project
To: Celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org


Hi, This is Jonny

I figured it would be easier to communicate via email instead of the

blog. �For the projector I used one that I was able to borrow from
somebody for a few days. �The one that I used was a pretty basic, $500
one. �I put it on a board that was tilted down slightly (15 degrees),
and had it hit a mirror to shine up toward the top. �But I also built

the touch table to specifically work with that one projector.

For the web cam I used a Sony Move cam. �They�re cheap ($40) and have
a high frame rate (60fps). �A lot of people in the Touch Table

community use the Move cams, so there is lots of help on the internet.

�You can even buy the cam already modded specifically for touch

tables. �(http://peauproductions.com/store/) �I didn�t find the

website soon enough to order the webcam from, but I did buy the IR
lens from him.

I noticed on the wiki that you had listed a piece of Glass. �Typical
glass won�t work properly with a set up like what your doing (with the
leds shining in through the sides (FTIR)) �The reason is that glass is
specially made to block IR emitted from the sun. �Most often Plexiglas

(acrylic) is used or you can change to a Rear DI detection method.
However this requires a completely different setup for the IR LEDs and
requires that everything be completely enclosed.
(http://peauproductions.com/reardi.html )

With a FTIR setup, (like you�re doing (I think)) you have to put a

special coating on the Vellum before it will work.

(http://nuigroup.com/forums/viewthread/2383/ ) �I found this to be
harder than I thought, and ended up having to try several times. �If

you use the Rear DI setup, the special coating is not needed, which

can be an advantage. �(I also remember as I was finishing up my build

somebody of the NUI Group forums had found a different product that
you just spay on the acrylic, and acts the same as coating the vellum,

only was much easier to do. �I don�t remember what it was called, but

if I find it I will let you know.

I mentioned that I used PYMT, which is based on python, to program my
touch table, however I was looking at the site and saw that they are
no longer developing this, but have moved to an new program called
Kivy. (http://kivy.org) From what I read it is built on PYMT, but is

much faster and more stable. �(There are also other programs that use
pretty much any programing language you want. �I found it easiest to

use PYMT because it is based in Python and that is what I am most
familiar with.)

Well hope this helps, this website looks like it has a lot of really

good info on it. �http://peauproductions.com/learn.html �If I think of

--

�

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

�
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�

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�
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http://groups.google.com/a/jigsawrenaissance.org/group/davinci
�

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For more information about JR (http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/),
visit our wiki page at: http://wiki.jigren.org/Starting_Classes
or this page: http://www.element14.com/community/groups/jigsaw-renaissance/blog/2011/03/25/who-we-are

Contact us, so we can chat about scheduling something cool together. Thanks!

Ultimate Regards,

--
Budi Mulyo
206.571.8430

--
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�

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

�
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http://groups.google.com/a/jigsawrenaissance.org/group/davinci
�

To unsubscribe, email davinci+u...@jigsawrenaissance.org

--
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rre...@gmail.com

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�

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The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

�
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http://groups.google.com/a/jigsawrenaissance.org/group/davinci
�

To unsubscribe, email davinci+u...@jigsawrenaissance.org

--
Jigsaw Renaissance is a learning and making community.

For more information about JR (http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/),
visit our wiki page at: http://wiki.jigren.org/Starting_Classes
or this page: http://www.element14.com/community/groups/jigsaw-renaissance/blog/2011/03/25/who-we-are

Contact us, so we can chat about scheduling something cool together. Thanks!

Ultimate Regards,

--
Budi Mulyo
206.571.8430

--
da Vinci -- the Jigsaw Renaissance mailing list

�

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

[Budi Mulyo]

Sounds good Danny. How would you suggest we do that btw? Do we need to move the table to the next room? 

I think the overhead projector solution is also total darkness. That's why we need to start planning on making enclosure for the bottom part, so we can put projector in there.

Btw, we also still need to develop application for it. 

Would you add these to our agenda Ryan?

1. - fix the leds (and mount in channel) ->Let's do this and also test it in total darkness

2. - design/build bottom enclosure

3. - if (leaking=false and ProjectorProblem=false), 

Then

4. - let's talk about application,

Else

5. - talk about the camera (sony move cam) -> test in total darkness

6. - talk about the projector (the overhead is cool but not very functional, its super dim) -> test in total darkness

7. - talk about acrylic (or random other poly-carb) vs glass -> let's use glass until it's proven that it's not working at all

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 7:53 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Good idea. also, we should do a test of the FTIR in total darkness this thursday.

On 5/10/2011 7:52 AM, Budi Mulyo wrote:

I'd say we just need to replace the bulb on the overhead projector (about $15-$20), and we should test the IR with U-channel attached to our glass first before venturing to other alternative solutions (new webcam, acrylic, new projector). Let's finish and get it to work first before upgrading.

Budi Mulyo

206.571.8430

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think Ryan's schedule looks good. But one big issue i had with the current design is that the camera is showing a lot of light, even with no LEDs or fingers or anythng except ambient.
This is a big problem i think. Any ideas on how to solve it? if we ever want to take this outside it could be an even bigger problem.
So whata ya think? Better camera/filter? covering? modulation and shutters?

On 5/10/2011 3:49 AM, Ryan Reggio wrote:

acrylic is not super expensive, however i know we have had some success with the glass we currently have... we have to keep in mind that the only reason we are using the glass panel is because it was already in the space, if it turns out that it will not work for our purposes, so be it. ultimately it comes down to what will work. i know tap plastics is a local retailer for acrylic and the people there were knowledgeable about what the plastic is and is not capable of. since we currently have no idea if the glass is ir resistant or not lets just assume it is for now and work from that (being the worst case scenario is that we get a piece of acrylic in the dimensions of the glass). the only thing that i would be worried about is the special coating johnny talked about. i haven't heard that mentioned anywhere else, but it sounds like it worked for him so it might be another thing we talk about on Thursday. also after i sat down and looked at how the leds were wired up i found out that while each string is wired up in the correct polarity it seems each string has its polarity facing a different direction. i think that for the sake of our sanity we should fix it so that the polarity is facing the same direction all the way around. so it sounds like our schedule for thursday is as follows;

-talk about the camera (sony move cam)

-talk about acrylic (or random other poly-carb) vs glass

-fix the leds (and mount in channel)

-talk about the projector (the overhead is cool but not very functional, its super dim)

let me know if I'm missing anything, although that seems like it should fill 3 hours adequately. 

-Ryan

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Budi Mulyo <celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org> wrote:

Hi Jonny,

we're having trouble getting clean feedback from IR during testing phase because IR seems too scatter (leaks to every angle and directions including the top and bottom). We notice that our hand were reflecting the light even without touching the glass (and it doesn't do anything when we touch the surface). Isn't the light wave should stays inside the glass (bouncing between the glass surface) until we touch it which change the angle of reflection and send the wave straight through the glass down to the camera? Perhaps you could help us trouble shoot it. 

We suspect the problem arise for these reasons:

- the LED that we are using have wider angle, but it seems ok according to http://tools.nuigroup.com/FTIR/ (although we are using glass instead of acrylic or polycarbonate)

- the channel is not butt in against the glass edges, so the angle is not 0 degree 

more photo here:

http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/many-hands-make-light-emitting-diodes-work/

http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/what-would-jr-do-wwjrd/

Before switching to acrylic, next week, we will focus on enclosing it completely, and adding reflective U-channel around the edges. We will focus on getting enclosure materials including some kind of Aquarium sealant for the edges since we need those anyway to complete the project.

Any thought?

Budi

206.571.8430

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 4/29/2011 4:40 AM, Budi Mulyo wrote:
Sounds like a good idea. I'm a bit concerned with a few discussions on the NUI group forums saying that glass does not work as well as acrylic.

As far as i have been able to calculate, the leds have a half angle of 40 degrees which is within the angle for glass. it looks like we need to use channels like we were doing with the tinfoil.  also, maybe a better IR filter or something? the entire thing is lit up even with the lights off which i think is a problem. the other ones were dark without the leds.

Hi Danny,

Let's test it again with TUIO and also let's check their (and our) hardware design more thoroughly. 

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 4:35 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Theese guys are using our same leds. http://www.diniro.net/fabbblog/multitouch-display-2.html

On 4/14/2011 10:45 PM, Budi Mulyo wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jonny Fosnight<jfos...@live.com>
Date: Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 3:03 PM
Subject: Touch Table Project
To: Celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org


Hi, This is Jonny

I figured it would be easier to communicate via email instead of the

blog.  For the projector I used one that I was able to borrow from
somebody for a few days.  The one that I used was a pretty basic, $500
one.  I put it on a board that was tilted down slightly (15 degrees),
and had it hit a mirror to shine up toward the top.  But I also built

the touch table to specifically work with that one projector.

For the web cam I used a Sony Move cam.  They’re cheap ($40) and have
a high frame rate (60fps).  A lot of people in the Touch Table

community use the Move cams, so there is lots of help on the internet.

 You can even buy the cam already modded specifically for touch

tables.  (http://peauproductions.com/store/)  I didn’t find the

website soon enough to order the webcam from, but I did buy the IR
lens from him.

I noticed on the wiki that you had listed a piece of Glass.  Typical
glass won’t work properly with a set up like what your doing (with the
leds shining in through the sides (FTIR))  The reason is that glass is
specially made to block IR emitted from the sun.  Most often Plexiglas

(acrylic) is used or you can change to a Rear DI detection method.
However this requires a completely different setup for the IR LEDs and
requires that everything be completely enclosed.
(http://peauproductions.com/reardi.html )

With a FTIR setup, (like you’re doing (I think)) you have to put a

special coating on the Vellum before it will work.

(http://nuigroup.com/forums/viewthread/2383/ )  I found this to be
harder than I thought, and ended up having to try several times.  If

you use the Rear DI setup, the special coating is not needed, which

can be an advantage.  (I also remember as I was finishing up my build

somebody of the NUI Group forums had found a different product that
you just spay on the acrylic, and acts the same as coating the vellum,

only was much easier to do.  I don’t remember what it was called, but

if I find it I will let you know.

I mentioned that I used PYMT, which is based on python, to program my
touch table, however I was looking at the site and saw that they are
no longer developing this, but have moved to an new program called
Kivy. (http://kivy.org) From what I read it is built on PYMT, but is

much faster and more stable.  (There are also other programs that use
pretty much any programing language you want.  I found it easiest to

use PYMT because it is based in Python and that is what I am most
familiar with.)

Well hope this helps, this website looks like it has a lot of really

good info on it.  http://peauproductions.com/learn.html  If I think of

--
Ryan Reggio
rre...@gmail.com

[Daniel Dunn]

task ftir_test_in_total_darkness()
{
take just the glass in the other room;
also extension cord;
put leds on side;
look with camera
}



On 5/10/2011 8:10 AM, Budi Mulyo wrote:

Sounds good Danny. How would you suggest we do that btw? Do we need to move the table to the next room?�

I think the overhead projector solution is also total darkness. That's why we need to start planning on making enclosure for the bottom part, so we can put projector in there.

Btw, we also still need to develop application for it.�

Would you add these to our agenda Ryan?

1. - fix the leds (and mount in channel) ->Let's do this and also test it in total darkness

2. - design/build bottom enclosure

3. -�if (leaking=false and ProjectorProblem=false),�

Then

4. - let's talk about application,

Else

5. - talk about the camera (sony move cam) -> test in total darkness

6. - talk about the projector (the overhead is cool but not very functional, its super dim) -> test in total darkness

7. - talk about�acrylic�(or random other poly-carb) vs glass -> let's use glass until it's proven that it's not working at all

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 7:53 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Good idea. also, we should do a test of the FTIR in total darkness this thursday.

On 5/10/2011 7:52 AM, Budi Mulyo wrote:

I'd say we just need to replace the bulb on the overhead projector�(about $15-$20), and we should test the IR with U-channel attached to our glass first before venturing to other alternative solutions (new webcam, acrylic, new projector). Let's finish and get it to work first before upgrading.

Budi Mulyo

206.571.8430

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think Ryan's schedule looks good. But one big issue i had with the current design is that the camera is showing a lot of light, even with no LEDs or fingers or anythng except ambient.
This is a big problem i think. Any ideas on how to solve it? if we ever want to take this outside it could be an even bigger problem.
So whata ya think? Better camera/filter? covering? modulation and shutters?

On 5/10/2011 3:49 AM, Ryan Reggio wrote:

acrylic is not super expensive, however i know we have had some success with the glass we currently have... we have to keep in mind that the only reason we are using the glass panel is because it was already in the space, if it turns out that it will not work for our purposes, so be it.�ultimately�it comes down to what will work. i know tap plastics is a local retailer for acrylic and the people there were�knowledgeable about what the plastic is and is not capable of. since we�currently�have no idea if the glass is ir resistant or not lets just assume it is for now and work from that (being the worst case�scenario�is that we get a piece of acrylic in the�dimensions�of the glass). the only thing that i would be worried about is the�special�coating johnny talked about. i haven't heard that mentioned anywhere else, but it sounds like it worked for him so it might be another thing we talk about on�Thursday. also after i sat down and looked at how the leds were wired up i found out that while each string is wired up in the correct polarity it seems each string has its polarity�facing�a different direction. i think that for the sake of our sanity we should fix it so that the polarity is facing the same direction all the way�around. so it sounds like our schedule for thursday is as follows;

-talk about the camera (sony move cam)

-talk about�acrylic�(or random other poly-carb) vs glass

-fix the leds (and mount in channel)

-talk about the projector (the overhead is cool but not very functional, its super dim)

let me know if I'm missing anything, although that seems like it should fill 3 hours adequately.�

-Ryan

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Budi Mulyo <celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org> wrote:

Hi Jonny,

we're having trouble getting clean feedback from IR during testing phase because�IR seems too scatter (leaks to every angle and directions including the top and bottom).�We notice that our hand were reflecting the light even without touching the glass (and it doesn't do anything when we touch the surface). Isn't the light wave should stays inside the glass (bouncing between the glass surface)�until we touch it which change the angle of reflection and send the wave straight through the glass down to the camera?�Perhaps you could help us trouble shoot it.�

We�suspect the problem arise for these reasons:

- the LED that we are using have wider angle, but it seems ok according to�http://tools.nuigroup.com/FTIR/�(although�we are using glass instead of acrylic or polycarbonate)

- the channel is not butt in against the glass edges, so the angle is not 0 degree�

more photo here:

http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/many-hands-make-light-emitting-diodes-work/

http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/what-would-jr-do-wwjrd/

Before switching to acrylic,�next week,�we will focus on�enclosing it completely, and adding reflective U-channel around the edges. We will focus on getting enclosure materials including some kind of Aquarium sealant for the edges since we need those anyway to complete the project.

Any thought?

Budi

206.571.8430

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 4/29/2011 4:40 AM, Budi Mulyo wrote:
Sounds like a good idea. I'm a bit concerned with a few discussions on the NUI group forums saying that glass does not work as well as acrylic.

As far as i have been able to calculate, the leds have a half angle of 40 degrees which is within the angle for glass. it looks like we need to use channels like we were doing with the tinfoil.� also, maybe a better IR filter or something? the entire thing is lit up even with the lights off which i think is a problem. the other ones were dark without the leds.

Hi Danny,

Let's test it again with TUIO and also let's check their (and our) hardware design more�thoroughly.�

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 4:35 AM, Daniel Dunn <riverh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Theese guys are using our same leds. http://www.diniro.net/fabbblog/multitouch-display-2.html

On 4/14/2011 10:45 PM, Budi Mulyo wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jonny Fosnight<jfos...@live.com>
Date: Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 3:03 PM
Subject: Touch Table Project
To: Celestia...@jigsawrenaissance.org


Hi, This is Jonny

I figured it would be easier to communicate via email instead of the

blog. �For the projector I used one that I was able to borrow from
somebody for a few days. �The one that I used was a pretty basic, $500
one. �I put it on a board that was tilted down slightly (15 degrees),
and had it hit a mirror to shine up toward the top. �But I also built

the touch table to specifically work with that one projector.

For the web cam I used a Sony Move cam. �They�re cheap ($40) and have
a high frame rate (60fps). �A lot of people in the Touch Table

community use the Move cams, so there is lots of help on the internet.

�You can even buy the cam already modded specifically for touch

tables. �(http://peauproductions.com/store/) �I didn�t find the

website soon enough to order the webcam from, but I did buy the IR
lens from him.

I noticed on the wiki that you had listed a piece of Glass. �Typical
glass won�t work properly with a set up like what your doing (with the
leds shining in through the sides (FTIR)) �The reason is that glass is
specially made to block IR emitted from the sun. �Most often Plexiglas

(acrylic) is used or you can change to a Rear DI detection method.
However this requires a completely different setup for the IR LEDs and
requires that everything be completely enclosed.
(http://peauproductions.com/reardi.html )

With a FTIR setup, (like you�re doing (I think)) you have to put a

special coating on the Vellum before it will work.

(http://nuigroup.com/forums/viewthread/2383/ ) �I found this to be
harder than I thought, and ended up having to try several times. �If

you use the Rear DI setup, the special coating is not needed, which

can be an advantage. �(I also remember as I was finishing up my build

somebody of the NUI Group forums had found a different product that
you just spay on the acrylic, and acts the same as coating the vellum,

only was much easier to do. �I don�t remember what it was called, but

if I find it I will let you know.

I mentioned that I used PYMT, which is based on python, to program my
touch table, however I was looking at the site and saw that they are
no longer developing this, but have moved to an new program called
Kivy. (http://kivy.org) From what I read it is built on PYMT, but is

much faster and more stable. �(There are also other programs that use
pretty much any programing language you want. �I found it easiest to

use PYMT because it is based in Python and that is what I am most
familiar with.)

Well hope this helps, this website looks like it has a lot of really

good info on it. �http://peauproductions.com/learn.html �If I think of

--

�

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

�
dav...@jigsawrenaissance.org
http://groups.google.com/a/jigsawrenaissance.org/group/davinci
�

To unsubscribe, email davinci+u...@jigsawrenaissance.org

--
da Vinci -- the Jigsaw Renaissance mailing list

�

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

�
dav...@jigsawrenaissance.org
http://groups.google.com/a/jigsawrenaissance.org/group/davinci
�

To unsubscribe, email davinci+u...@jigsawrenaissance.org

--
Jigsaw Renaissance is a learning and making community.

For more information about JR (http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/),
visit our wiki page at: http://wiki.jigren.org/Starting_Classes
or this page: http://www.element14.com/community/groups/jigsaw-renaissance/blog/2011/03/25/who-we-are

Contact us, so we can chat about scheduling something cool together. Thanks!

Ultimate Regards,

--
Budi Mulyo
206.571.8430

--
da Vinci -- the Jigsaw Renaissance mailing list

�

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

�
dav...@jigsawrenaissance.org
http://groups.google.com/a/jigsawrenaissance.org/group/davinci
�

To unsubscribe, email davinci+u...@jigsawrenaissance.org

--
Ryan Reggio
rre...@gmail.com

--
da Vinci -- the Jigsaw Renaissance mailing list

�

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

�
dav...@jigsawrenaissance.org
http://groups.google.com/a/jigsawrenaissance.org/group/davinci
�

To unsubscribe, email davinci+u...@jigsawrenaissance.org

--

da Vinci -- the Jigsaw Renaissance mailing list

�

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

�
dav...@jigsawrenaissance.org
http://groups.google.com/a/jigsawrenaissance.org/group/davinci
�

To unsubscribe, email davinci+u...@jigsawrenaissance.org

--
Jigsaw Renaissance is a learning and making community.

For more information about JR (http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/),
visit our wiki page at: http://wiki.jigren.org/Starting_Classes
or this page: http://www.element14.com/community/groups/jigsaw-renaissance/blog/2011/03/25/who-we-are

Contact us, so we can chat about scheduling something cool together. Thanks!

Ultimate Regards,

--
Budi Mulyo
206.571.8430

--

da Vinci -- the Jigsaw Renaissance mailing list

�

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

�
dav...@jigsawrenaissance.org
http://groups.google.com/a/jigsawrenaissance.org/group/davinci
�

To unsubscribe, email davinci+u...@jigsawrenaissance.org

--
da Vinci -- the Jigsaw Renaissance mailing list

�

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

�
dav...@jigsawrenaissance.org
http://groups.google.com/a/jigsawrenaissance.org/group/davinci
�

To unsubscribe, email davinci+u...@jigsawrenaissance.org

--
Jigsaw Renaissance is a learning and making community.

For more information about JR (http://www.jigsawrenaissance.org/),
visit our wiki page at: http://wiki.jigren.org/Starting_Classes
or this page: http://www.element14.com/community/groups/jigsaw-renaissance/blog/2011/03/25/who-we-are

Contact us, so we can chat about scheduling something cool together. Thanks!

Ultimate Regards,

--
Budi Mulyo
206.571.8430

--
da Vinci -- the Jigsaw Renaissance mailing list

�

The da Vinci mailing list is for project / event proposal, and general Jigsaw announcements. You can also use our wiki at wiki.jigren.org for long-term planning and to see what we're up to. Small updates and general chatter should happen on IRC (freenode:jigsaw).

[Rehana Rodrigues]

What do you hope to gain by replacing the bulb?

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Budi Mulyo

[Budi Mulyo]

We hope by replacing the old bulb with a 400 watt new light bulb, the projector could produce at least 1000 lumen, so we don't need to spend more money on buying more hardware:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Cheap-Improved-LCD-Overhead-Projector/

Before we do that, we could at least build enclosure for it because too much ambient light is typically the problem with projector dimness. Regardless what projector/bulb to use, we still need to do this, right?

Budi Mulyo

206.571.8430

[Ryan Reggio]

Replacing the bulb might fix the problem. Danny I expect the ambient light problem to be solve either intierly or at least mostly by frosting the bottom of the glass (or however we do our projection surface) the other way we could sovereign for it is using software to filter out anything not bright enough to be a finger touch. So yeah any way this Thursday is gonna be busy. I plan on staying at-least until 4pm and can/will stay later if people want to stick around and be productive. See you all Thursday!

Sent from my iPhone

[Budi Mulyo]

So actionable items are:

- put LED_into_channels

- run ftir_test_in_total_darkness()

- put black_frame around the_side_of_glass

- construct the_bottom_enclosure (material none)

Sorry I can't stay pass 3pm because I have previous engagement, but see you all on Thursday at 1pm.

Hey Ryan, did you just buy an iPhone? :P hehehe 

Budi Mulyo

[Budi Mulyo]

Hi Patrick,

I'm excited that you plan on joining us tomorrow because we could always use extra hands. YAY! 

We will also need some materials:

- Some kind of paste or something to smooth out the rough wood supporting surface around the glass. 

- We also plan on constructing the bottom enclosure of the table, so we will need that material as well. 

- It would be nice if you could also find us 400 watt OHP bulb. I think that's all for tomorrow.

Budi Mulyo

206.571.8430

[Budi Mulyo]

This coming Thursday at 1PM, we plan on building 4 feet by 6 feet multi touch rear projection screen that's portable and economical. More or less the design will look like this. Everyone are welcome to join the build-out session at the new Jigsaw Renaissance at Inscape Building. (call my cell so I can let you in)

I will use Plastic Acrylic Clear Sheet 0.354" to build a super sized rear side projection screen with multitouch surface feature (4 feet by 6 feet). I made design changes to make it more portable using 3 pcs of 24" x 48" panels instead of 4 feet by 6 feet sheet.

Thanks to Rich Olson recommendation, I found Acrylic (for $224) from Online Metals to be the most economical.

I'm still not sure if infrared light will travel pass the long edge of the glass. If the IR light doesn't travel pass the edge of the panel and continue to the next 24" x 48" segment, then we have a problem to solve. :P

Budi Mulyo

206.571.8430

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[James Gray]

Budi, many materials suppliers will oblige you with a sample at minimal cost if you ask. Should we be doing an experiment before the $224 order?

James

[Budi Mulyo]

Thanks James. I will definitely try calling and ask for a sample tomorrow.

Budi Mulyo

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[Ned Konz]

On Jun 13, 2011, at 6:05 PM, Budi Mulyo wrote:

> I'm still not sure if infrared light will travel pass the long edge of the glass. If the IR light doesn't travel pass the edge of the panel and continue to the next 24" x 48" segment, then we have a problem to solve. :P

It won't. Or at least I doubt it will.

Changes in the refractive index, and all that.

Don't expect the light to traverse edges.

Ned

[Budi Mulyo]

The multitouch surface team is now planning on building Multitouch Screen for the rear side projector. We plan to meet during general meeting on Tuesday evening. You all are welcome to join us. 

-------------------

For the IR LED, we are planning on using this:

the goods has been sent by DHL.The tracking number is 5557608700

Item specifics

Place of Origin:

Guangdong China (Mainland)

Brand Name:

JX

Life:

30,000h

Model Number:

JX-IR850

Input Voltage:

85-265V

Description

1.850nm or 940nm is available

2.60pcs 3528 IR leds per meter,4.8W,DC12V

3.Size: 1000*8*5mm

4.Viewing angle: 120

5. Waterproof or nonwaterproof is available

 

Packaging Details

Unit Type:

lot (5 meter/lot)

Package Weight:

1.0kg (2.20lb.)

Package Size:

3cm x 4cm x 5cm (1.18in x 1.57in x 1.97in)

[Budi Mulyo]

We decided to postpone this project for one week to give us time to think for much improved design, and we're going to reconvene next week June 30, 2011 at 1pm.

[Budi Mulyo]

Report:

At the last meetup, Danny introduced us to petticoat material that was used as a projector screen, and it works really great for playing Motion Bubbles (webcam/flash game). 

What we like about the material:

very light and cheap. 

Almost Transparent (This property is cool because we could make a holographic image in the middle of the hall way,) 

What we don't like about this material:

Too transparent (The projection didn't stop at the petticoat material, but also to the wall behind it.)

We plan on finding a way to diffuse the undesired effect by placing the screen on the hall way or placing non reflective materials such as velvet on the wall.

Using edge lightning technique or a webcam, we might be able to turn this into a  multitouch or multigestures interface.

NEXT MEETUP: Thursday July 14 at 1pm.

Budi Mulyo

206.571.8430

[Willow Brugh]

Glad to see this still being worked on. Have you thought about layering the material?

Willow Brugh // willowbl00

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