For Susan Garlinghouse.... beet pulp toxic article....

[Kimberly Huck]

Hi Susan,

 

If and when you have time, would you mind giving the attached article a look?   (it’s short.:)  I’m very interested in your opinion about what the author is stating in terms of beet pulp being toxic?  Is there any scientific research about this?  Thanks for all you do! 

 

http://www.equinesecrets.com/horse_feeds/

 

Take care,

Kim Huck

FL

[Carla Richardson]

Dr Susan has addressed this before, I hope she will just find her previous post and re - send it.  If I remember correctly it was pretty entertaining.  :)

Carla Richardson

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[Truman Prevatt]

The original article had more to do with the quality and purity of the beet pulp rather than the beet pulp.  There were a lot of valid concerns, herbicide use since

beets are now genetically modified to withstand the use of Roundup.  Are there residuals of herbicide and insecticide in in beet pulp used in animal feed? That is a valid question. 

Beet pulp is a by produce of the production of sugar - what types of requirements are in place on it being sold as an animal feed what type of cleaning is used to rid the beet pulp 

of residual herbicides and insecticides?

I would hope and suspect that the larger feed companies that use beet pulp in the production take care to make sure the products they use meet standards before it is used.  However, I didn't see

this as so much anti-beet pulp but as pointing out that not all beet pulp is created equal. 

I have a good friend who grew up on a ranch in Idaho.  He was amazed and somewhat horrified that horse feed had beet pulp in it.  He said they gave beet pulp to their cows but they would never consider giving it to their horses. 

Truman

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[KSherman]

Wouldn't you think that with the number of endurance horses eating beet pulp fairly regularly, that if there were a problem, it'd be obvious by now? I'm not saying all horses can eat it, but with many feeds containing it and many horses also getting it supplemented daily, I'm guessing that a very high percentage have no problem with beet pulp. How many endurance horses have the symptoms Bracaloni lists  as indications the horse needs to be taken off beet pulp? Endurance horses provide a pretty large study group. 

 Bracaloni states 

"As a holistic practitioner for more than 12 years, I have assisted more than 100 horse owners with equine diets and nutrition." 

 o Does my horse feel weak in the hind end? 

o Are his hooves brittle? 
o Does it seem like his stifles are weak? 
o Does my horse appear to be lacking energy? 
o What about the coat? Is it dull? 
o Does my horse have loose stools? Are his stools loose or hard?

If you horse has any of these symptoms then: 
Try the following for three months. Take your horse off beet pulp, 

KathyS

Truman

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[Lauren]

HI Kim,

I've been doing a lot of research lately and I am phasing out beet pulp (US grown) after feeding it for over 15 years. While my horses haven't had anything bad happen to their health and have done well in endurance, I think there is room for improvement. And when you start researching all the new studies that are coming out on the toxicity of glyphosate (Round Up), it gets scary. I have personally talked to one farmer who was involved in a study with feeding pigs GM corn. He says the study is over but it will take 2-6 years for it to be published but what he saw was very obvious and shocking. Common sense tells him that glyphosate is toxic. He doesn't need a study to prove it to him. I recently sent in three samples of feed that I feed and I am waiting to hear how much glyphosate is in it. I have asked feed manufacturers for information and they either ignore me or just say it isn't available. So, I am paying for these tests myself because I want to know, and it is not cheap. The ONLY brand of "grain" that is non GMO is Cavalor. They import all their grains from Europe (non-GMO). They would advertise GMO free but the only product that they can't get that is GMO is the soy oil they use to help bind the grain. There is also a beet pulp available that is imported from the UK. Again, non-GMO. It is more expensive. I'm switching to that brand and will just feed way less of it than I currently feed. There is so much information out there that I'm not going to go into here. But here are some links if you want to start your research yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDHumw0ossc

http://vimeo.com/65914121

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShJTcIlTna0

Personally, I have gone all organic.

Best,

Lauren

[Lauren]

When you research glyphosate, which is sprayed on most GMO crops (Roundup Ready crops: corn soybeans & beetpulp) you find that glyphosate doesn't affect mammals, like Monsanto has told us since the 70's. But it does affect all the good bacteria in our gut. And since most of our immune system starts in the gut, why is it any surprise that 50% of the horses that my vet scopes have ulcers. I think we are headed in a direction that we will find more issues in the coming years. All the studies that the FDA looked at are under 3 months in length. All the independent studies are longer and effects are being seen. I may not get sick from smoking or eating junk food for 3 months but I can guarantee you my health would suffer if I ate junk food or smoked for years and years.

Lauren

[Elyse]

Lauren-

I think this issue is significant and I also have concerns about GMO crops, but I'm unsure of what the correlation would be between the immune system and ulcers in horses. The immune system issue makes sense in people, where there is a bacterial component (h. pylori) but how would it be related in horses where it is a stomach acid issue.

 

-Elyse

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[Susan Garlinghouse, DVM]

If and when you have time, would you mind giving the attached article a look?   (it’s short.:)  I’m very interested in your opinion about what the author is stating in terms of beet pulp being toxic?  Is there any scientific research about this?  Thanks for all you do! 

http://www.equinesecrets.com/horse_feeds/

Take care,

Kim Huck

 

Hey Kim,

In the paragraphs other than that related directly to beet pulp, the person who put this particular website together does a pretty typical maneuver of listing all the threatening, toxic, imminently fatal outcomes of feeding horses any one of several common feeds, without backing up her claims with any actual science or citations.  Also typical, she (or at least I’m assuming it’s a she, but I may be mistaken about that) takes one tiny little nugget of accuracy and blows it up into high melodrama.  Example, that rape causes problems and thus feeding canola oil is a really, really bad idea.  It is true that rapeseed contains some compounds that can be an issue in multiple species if fed in high quantities.  However, canola doesn’t come from rape---the Canadians selectively bred (not GM, selected for) traits that so changed over many years that it became eventually recognized as an entirely different type of oilseed---thus, canola, without any of the inherent disadvantages of rapeseed.  I can name and discuss a couple of reasons why I prefer fat sources other than a whole bunch of just canola for horses, but none of those are even mentioned here and I doubt the author could intelligently discuss them if they were.

Have you ever noticed that websites illuminating us all with the life-threatening toxins we’re poisoning our horses/dogs/cats/selves with hardly ever include anything in the About Us section that equates to actual qualifications, and they magically always have some fabulous supplement or detoxifer that they can sell you?  Coincidence?  I think not.

But I digress.

In regards to the paragraphs on beet pulp, the website references an article of absolute twaddle published elsewhere on the internet a few years ago, proving that you don’t have to have even the education or intelligence that God gave a circus chimp to proclaim yourself as an “authority” online.  I’m not going to reinvent the wheel by reviewing every last point of nonsense made in the referred article, because to do so implies it’s worth a debate and I already blew an hour or so of my life the first time around that I’ll never get back and will regret forever.  The short answer is that the author is yet another self-proclaimed authority, but clearly has zero understanding of equine digestive physiology, clinical nutrition or how to research and read actual science-based literature.  Seriously.  Zee.  Ro.

If you do want to read what I’ve written in the past about this garbage, you can find a link to it here: 

http://equineink.com/2009/12/13/more-debate-on-beet-pulp/   on another website that also includes some good stuff from Dr. Lori Warren, PhD.

And finally, in rummaging through my computer, I came across the below Word document dated 8/2010 with some references as to pesticide/herbicide residues in a number of commercial crops, beet pulp included.  I honestly haven’t a clue where the rest of the attached commentary originated---it might have come from me, because it reads like my style of writing, and I vaguely remember doing literature searches and reading a lot of pretty dry chromatography abstracts and scientific articles to make sure I was understanding it right.  But I might not have, in which case I apologize to an author not being properly accredited.  Anyway, it also provides some valid citations from (what a concept) actual science instead of melodrama.

So, to actually answer your question, I would love to see some actual peer-reviewed data that supports a claim or supposition that beet pulp is toxic.  Because as far as I know, it doesn’t exist.

 

Susan Garlinghouse, DVM

 

A PubMed search = Journal of Chromatography

Tekel, J., Farkaš, P., Kovačičová, J. and Szokolay, A. (1988), Analysis of herbicide residues in sugar beet and sugar. Food / Nahrung, 32: 357–363. doi: 10.1002/food.19880320414

A simple quantitative TLC method for the determination of the residues of herbicide inhibiting photosynthesis was compared with capillary GLC for the analysis of atrazine, chloridazone, lenacil, phenmedipham and desmedipham in sugar beet and sugar. No significant differences in the determination limit and precision of the two methods were found.  Monitoring of herbicide residue levels in commercial sugar revealed low levels of atrazine (0.003 mg kg⁻¹ on average) in all the samples. This contamination level does not present a health hazard for consumers.

 

The article claims that defoliants similar to Agent Orange are used to remove the tops of the sugar beets prior to harvest.  For a description of mechanical topping used in harvested sugar beets, as well as photos of the harvester that cuts the leaves off the plant, go to this article published by Washington State University here:

http://users.tricity.wsu.edu/~cdaniels/profiles/SugarBeet.pdf

A peer-reviewed study published in the Journal of Pesticide Science demonstrating that herbicide residues in sugar beet root falls to 0.02 ppm before it’s even harvested.  BTW, the same article also indicates that chemical residue is higher in the extract (that’s the part that goes towards making table sugar) than it is in the roots.  Still negligible, but if the author is going to get in a twist over chemical residues, at least get the numbers right.

http://rms1.agsearch.agropedia.affrc.go.jp/contents/JASI/pdf/society/40-1238.pdf

BTW, the current EPA regulations for herbicide residues in sugar beets are set at 0.001% (that’s one one-thousandths of a percent).  If that’s not someone trying to elicit nutritional terrorism over a non-issue, I don’t know what is.

And just for fun, what is the level at which exposure can be expected to cause a toxicity problem?  Well, based on Cornell University’s estimation, it takes 225 times the dose found in a kg (that’s about two pounds) of beet pulp to kill 50% of an exposed trout population.  That’s right, you’d have to feed a trout almost 500 lbs of beet pulp before it has toxicity problems because of herbicide residues.  Here’s the monograph where you can find the research results : http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/herb-growthreg/24-d-butylate/atrazine/atraz_prf_0390.html

By the way, it takes 144 tons of beet pulp to kill half your bobwhite quail and 491 tons to kill a duck.  

Excerpt from a monograph published by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (an international sub-committee of the World Health Organization tasked with identifying environmental factors which increase the risk of cancer):

 

No atrazine residue (< 50 g/kg) was reported in a survey of various food and feeds

over the period 1991–92 in 16, 428 samples (15, 370 surveillance and 1058 compliance)

and in the Total Diet Study for 1986–92 in the United States (Food & Drug Administration,

1993). In a further examination of data from the Residue Monitoring Program by

the National Food Processors Association, no residues of atrazine, simazine, cyanazine or

ametryn were found in 76, 973 samples in 1992–94 (Elkins et al., 1998).

Field studies on the metabolism of atrazine in corn and sorghum showed that uptake

of residues by plants is relatively low and subsequent metabolism is rapid. The metabolism

of atrazine in plants is complex and involves at least 15–20 structures. Direct

dietary exposure to atrazine residues in treated crops would be expected to be low and to

comprise primarily water-soluble metabolites. There is a little propensity for plant metabolites

of atrazine to be transferred to meat, milk or eggs (Ballantine & Simoneaux,

1991).

 

This same 55-page monograph also mentioned other crops worldwide in which atrazine is commonly used as an herbicide, including corn (both sweet corn and forage corn), 67% of all corn acreage, 65% of sorghum acreage and 90% of sugar-cane acreage and is also used on wheat, guavas, macadamia nuts, conifers and turf.  World-wide atrazine is used commercially on pineapple, sugar-cane, avocados, bananas, mangos, peaches, apples, citrus fruit, nuts, tea, cocoa, coffee, Black pepper, wheat, oats, asparagus, leafy vegetables, sorghum (both grain and fodder) and pasturage.  So if you’re looking to eliminate all foodstuffs that have ever come in contact with atrazine for yourself and your horses, hope your backyard garden is doing well, you have lots of your very own pasture and you have a nice flock of laying hens.  Hope you weren’t planning on putting a Christmas tree in your home this year, either.  Yup.  Used there, too.

 

The entire monograph can be read here: http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/vol73/mono73-8.pdf

 

 

[Susan Garlinghouse, DVM]

The syndrome you describe in a hindgut fermenter (like horses, rabbits, elephants, etc) or ruminants (cattle, sheep, goats) is called dysbiosis and results in very, very, very sick animals, generally with projectile diarrhea, secondary opportunistic infections such as Salmonella and often death.  It’s what happens if you administer certain antibiotics orally to the wrong species of animal.  If adverse effects on hindgut microbial flora was a significant issue from glyphosate, then my assumption would be that you wouldn’t be seeing ulcers, you’d be seeing colic and diarrhea.  Which we don’t, given the amount of beet pulp fed commercially in this country and to some very high-performing animals.

 

Do you have any actual data to support your conjecture that glyphosates suppress microbial population, and thus have a clinical relationship to immune system and gastric ulcers?  Based on your logic, I could equally make the claim that “And since most of our immune system starts in the gut, why is it any surprise that 50% of the horses that my vet examines have required antibiotics at some point in their lives”.  I’m just not seeing your connection between the two, at least not without some data to back it up.

 

Susan Garlinghouse, DVM

[Lynn White]

I happen to live in Idaho and sometimes beets are planted and harvested right by my house.  I watch them get  harvested.  The defoliation is done mechanically in the field.  Chemicals cost money.  Farmers don't like to spend money on chemicals unless it is going to make them money.  It's just business.   There are a lot of weeds in beet fields.  Sometimes laborers will be hired to hoe the fields, but other than that they just pour the water to beets and let them grow. When beets are processed they get shredded and just about all the sugar gets cooked out.  I'm amazed there is actually so much nutrition left after the processing.  They used to give beet pulp away, and farmers would load up their trucks with it and feed it to their cattle.  Now beet pulp is a commodity and is sold world-wide as animal feed to places on the earth with less aritable land for fodder...like Japan.  I've seen the price of beet pulp triple in the past 10 years. If there is such a high demand for this commodity does anyone think it would be very toxic?  Doesn't make sense to me. 

I know some cutting riders that wouldn't be caught dead feeding their horses beet pulp.  Then again these same horsemen insist that their horses be shod year round even though these horses never leave an arena or a turn-out pen. 

Horse people are a funny bunch. 

[Truman Prevatt]

Beet pulp is probably fine, although at least one very good vet I know in FL doesn't think it is all that great for horses.  I think the jury is out.  There is a vast difference between long term effects and short term effects.  From several thing I have read lately the reason we are having issues (in the human population) with gluten intolerance has more to do with the fact that people have not "evolved" to support grain in their diets.  Grains came about when agriculture was  developed and practiced - which is fairly recent about 10,000 years ago.  Our original ancestors did not evolve on grain.   True or not? However, t it does explain the rise in gluten intolerance which nothing else would.

At one time not so long ago people were proposing feeding of animal fat sources to horses (and cows).  That didn't sound too smart to me because horses did not evolve on eating animal fats.  Today you hear very little about feeding any fat source other than vegetable fat. Is beet pulp the greatest horse feed to ever be used or is it just the latest fad being promoted by the sugar beet industry to develop another product from what would be throw away?  I expect it is too early to tell.  We've only been feeding it to horses for a few years.  At the end of the day grass and hay are what the horse has been eating for his entire history on earth - it is what the digestive system evolved to use for food and it does a great job of that.   On beet pulp, time will tell.  I'm a bit reluctant to buy bags of beet pulp and feed it directly.  I do, however, feed a feed that is high in beet pulp that has processing and used in a production feed made by a reputable company.  That decision has nothing to do with beet pulp but more to do with the purity and cleanness' of the beet pulp.  Yes may Roundup is not an issue in animals - but is there a long term problem waiting in the wings since the studies down were short term?  After all not every one starts out intolerant to gluten - it is normally developed, same for night shade intolerance in humans (tomatoes, eggplant, white potatoes, etc.). I also prefer to have my feed balanced with some form of QC.

Truman

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[Truman Prevatt]

Beet pulp is probably fine, although at least one very good vet I know in FL doesn't think it is all that great for horses.  I think the jury is out.  There is a vast difference between long term effects and short term effects.  From several thing I have read lately the reason we are having issues (in the human population) with gluten intolerance has more to do with the fact that people have not "evolved" to support grain in their diets.  Grains came about when agriculture was  developed and practiced - which is fairly recent about 10,000 years ago.  Our original ancestors did not evolve on grain.   True or not? However, t it does explain the rise in gluten intolerance which nothing else would.

At one time not so long ago people were proposing feeding of animal fat sources to horses (and cows).  That didn't sound too smart to me because horses did not evolve on eating animal fats.  Today you hear very little about feeding any fat source other than vegetable fat. Is beet pulp the greatest horse feed to ever be used or is it just the latest fad being promoted by the sugar beet industry to develop another product from what would be throw away?  I expect it is too early to tell.  We've only been feeding it to horses for a few years.  At the end of the day grass and hay are what the horse has been eating for his entire history on earth - it is what the digestive system evolved to use for food and it does a great job of that.   On beet pulp, time will tell.  I'm a bit reluctant to buy bags of beet pulp and feed it directly.  I do, however, feed a feed that is high in beet pulp that has processing and used in a production feed made by a reputable company.  That decision has nothing to do with beet pulp but more to do with the purity and cleanness' of the beet pulp.  Yes may Roundup is not an issue in animals - but is there a long term problem waiting in the wings since the studies down were short term?  After all not every one starts out intolerant to gluten - it is normally developed, same for night shade intolerance in humans (tomatoes, eggplant, white potatoes, etc.). I also prefer to have my feed balanced with some form of QC.

Truman

On Feb 17, 2014, at 10:47 PM, Lynn White <ldlw...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Sarah Chambers]

Susan:

 

Thank you for being taking time out of your day to the voice of reason.  I get so tired of the fear mongering about this, that and the other thing. 

 

Best Regards,

Sarah

[Karen]

I know some folks are truly gluten intolerant (those with celiac disease for one). But I suspect there are others for whom it's the latest fad to avoid gluten.  So now we have a generation of people avoiding gluten, even people who don't need to.... And if it's a matter of people have not "evolved" well it could be a self fulfilling prophecy. If you never eat gluten as a kid how will you tolerate it as an adult? I think PART of the reason for increased gluten intolerance is all the talk about gluten intolerance and the food manufacturers selling us on the idea. Again this doesn't apply to everyone...

Sent from my iPad

[Lynne Glazer]

Getting off topic, but I want to address the "fad" point. I had thought the gluten-free stuff was a fad too except for that small percentage of the populace that is celiac. Karen, please read the reviews of Grain Brain by neurologist and nutritionist Daniel Permutter, about the connection between gluten and brain diseases like Alzheimers coupled with sugar-related illnesses like diabetes/metabolic syndrome. When the gut disagrees with gluten, you know about it--when the brain does, you don't or can't make the connection with diet. Lots of cites if you want to follow the research.

Just try going without our modern hybridized wheat for a week, where a piece of bread has a higher glycemic index than a teaspoon of sugar, and see how you feel. (Wheat Belly, M. Davis MD) It's been 13 months for me, and all my arthritis symptoms vanished, among other benefits. It definitely made a difference in my recommittment to this sport, and why I bought a new horse.

Lynne
who won't keep this thread going further
(and hey, let's trim our posts when replying for the folks on digest)

[Karen Page]

I've gone "gluten-light" and I can see a difference in belly fast in just two weeks.  I have not gone low carb, or cut my sugar intake.  Amazing.

Karen
Lawton, OK

[Karen]

I probably should not have posted my reply because it was just my gut feel and I haven't done any research as I don't have wheat issues. And I probably won't till I have symptoms ;) bad me. But thank you for your thoughtful reply, even though mine really wasn't :/

Karen in MT

Sent from my iPad

[chi...@aol.com]

I know this is getting off topic....but I'm curious to know if sprouted wheat bread has the same glycemic index.  I use Ezekial bread pretty much exclusively.  Don't know if I could give it up, I love it so much!

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Lynne Glazer <lynne....@gmail.com>
To: ride...@endurance.net (E-mail) <ride...@endurance.net>
Sent: Tue, Feb 18, 2014 5:27 pm
Subject: Re: [RC] For Susan Garlinghouse.... beet pulp toxic article....

> wrote:

> I know some folks are truly gluten intolerant (those with celiac disease for 
one). But I suspect there are others for whom it's the latest fad to avoid 
gluten.  So now we have a generation of people avoiding gluten, even people who 
don't need to.... And if it's a matter of people have not "evolved" well it 
could be a self fulfilling prophecy. If you never eat gluten as a kid how will 
you tolerate it as an adult? I think PART of the reason for increased gluten 
intolerance is all the talk about gluten intolerance and the food manufacturers 
selling us on the idea. Again this doesn't apply to everyone...
> 
> Sent from my iPad

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[KSherman]

Just for fun, here's one more beet pulp  myth-busting article. http://uckeleequine.wordpress.com/2014/02/18/beet-pulp/

Kathy

On Sunday, February 16, 2014 5:17:22 AM UTC-8, khuck wrote:

[Susan Garlinghouse, DVM]

Yup.  I agree with all of Dr. Kellon’s very succinct and to the point comments.  I realize Dr. Kellon’s opinions don’t carry as much weight as the anonymous “good friend in Idaho who can’t believe we feed beet pulp to horses”, but hey, I’m funny about taking into account actual professional credentials that way. 

 

Susan Garlinghouse, DVM

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