From Sandy Thomson: GERA Photos are up!

[ride...@juno.com]

Hey folks, ANY endurance riders, not just the SE will enjoy looking at these photos of the flooded river crossing at GERA in Georgia this weekend. Jack Miller, an excellent photographer got some great photos, and is DONATING proceeds to GERA. Read the disclaimer on his page...you have his permission to drag the photos off and use them for personal use...try to remember to give him credit (I hate when forget to list photo credits), and send a donation to GERA! I'm serious...click on this link. You won't be sorry. :-)

Angie McGhee



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[stephanie teeter]

You're right! these are incredible!!

Steph

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[Teddy Lancaster]

We get to ride in quite different terrain, weather and other situations (mostly HUMIDITY) in the East.  We do not get a lot of riders coming from the West to test our grounds either! Those that do come prepared!  I think it is easier (on horse and rider) to ride in the West than the East: mainly due to the humidity factor.

--

Teddy Lancaster
http://runningbear.com/
5991 NC Hwy 22 N
Climax, NC 27233
800-533-BEAR

  Those that do come prepared

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Truman Prevatt]

That river is nominally about hoof to maybe knee deep.  Wow.  Looks like some people got to cool off a bit and get to take a swim!  Teddy, didn't you almost lose a couple riders in the river on your ride one year ;-)!

Truman

On Jun 18, 2013, at 10:15 AM, Teddy Lancaster <te...@runningbear.com> wrote:

We get to ride in quite different terrain, weather and other situations (mostly HUMIDITY) in the East.  We do not get a lot of riders coming from the West to test our grounds either! Those that do come prepared!  I think it is easier (on horse and rider) to ride in the West than the East: mainly due to the humidity factor.

On 6/18/2013 9:56 AM, stephanie teeter wrote:

You're right! these are incredible!!

Steph

On Jun 17, 2013, at 9:50 PM, ride...@juno.com wrote:

Hey folks, ANY endurance riders, not just the SE will enjoy looking at these photos of the flooded river crossing at GERA in Georgia this weekend. Jack Miller, an excellent photographer got some great photos, and is DONATING proceeds to GERA.  Read the disclaimer on his page...you have his permission to drag the photos off and use them for personal use...try to remember to give him credit (I hate when forget to list photo credits), and send a donation to GERA! I'm serious...click on this link. You won't be sorry. :-)

Angie McGhee

--

Teddy Lancaster
http://runningbear.com/
5991 NC Hwy 22 N
Climax, NC 27233
800-533-BEAR

  Those that do come prepared

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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"The greater our knowledge increases, the greater our ignorance unfolds."
   - John F. Kennedy

[ride...@juno.com]

>>> Teddy, didn't you almost lose a couple riders in the river on your ride one year ;-)!

 

 

 

I had a Mississippi rider tell me about getting washed away in a flooded stream and her and her horse washing through a culvert. She said the only thing that kept her from drowning was the styrofoam in her helmet helping her keep her head above water. There's one more reason for a helmet...floatation device!

 

Angie

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1 Odd spice that FIGHTS diabetes
Can this unusual "super spice" control your blood sugar and fight diabetes&#63
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[Teddy Lancaster]

Not enough to call the EMT's!  But I did have a rider fall off his horse from a heart attack. He was dead before he hit the ground.  Those kind of memories never go away...

Can this unusual "super spice" control your blood sugar and fight diabetes?
diabetesreversed.com --

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Teddy Lancaster
http://runningbear.com/
5991 NC Hwy 22 N
Climax, NC 27233
800-533-BEAR

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[janet french]

Teddy, You need to write a book....you travel so many places, meet so many people and have so many stories.

[ride...@juno.com]

>>>Not enough to call the EMT's!  But I did have a rider fall off his horse from a heart attack. He was dead before he hit the ground.  Those kind of memories never go away...

 

I've been in two rides where riders had a heart attack and died early in the morning (not your ride either). Anyone with a heart condition should be as aware of a good morning routine as they would be if they had a horse prone to tying up!

 

Angie

____________________________________________________________

1 Odd spice that FIGHTS diabetes

Can this unusual "super spice" control your blood sugar and fight diabetes&#63
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[Teddy Lancaster]

I need a "ghost writer"...no time!  (but I DO cherish the memories!)

[Teddy Lancaster]

I need a "ghost writer"..no time (but lots of great memories!)

On 6/18/2013 11:32 AM, janet french wrote:

[David Lewis]

My sister is a professional writer and ghost writer...

- David
Sent from my Droid. Please excuse any typos and grammar mistakes.

[Teddy Lancaster]

I would need to do this on "consignment"... but I am afraid I'll have to put it off about another year.  I have lived "on the road" since 2006 and with everything in storage (except necessities) I won;pt be ablt to dig them out until I get a house to live in!    But that then just leads to MORE adventures until that time!

[K. Lynd]

These ride photos were amazing, and I really enjoyed looking at them.  I would have loved to witness the stream crossings in person. 

I have never ridden with a running martingale.   I noticed that many riders were using them.  I am wondering whether they present a safety risk when crossing a river?  Do they restrict head movement upward if the horse falls or gets in deep water?

[Teddy Lancaster]

You are OK with a running martingale, the problems comes along with a tiedown as it restricts the ability of the horse to lift his head.. And they MUST have their head free to swim!

--

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dawn Carrie]

I ride one horse with a running martingale.  I would have simply reached down and unclipped it from the reins before doing this crossing.  If the rider is pulling on the reins, then yes, it will restrict the horse's head from going up high.  Not a problem in a "routine" crossing with shallower water, but in this situation (deep water, current), I would not want my horse to be wearing one. 

 

Dawn Carrie

[Dawn Carrie]

Teddy, if the reins are slack, then they'd be ok.  But if the rider is pulling on the reins (say, to slow a horse that is lunging wildly in the water, etc.) then it would prevent the horse from lifting its head high.  Or say a rider became unbalanced and ended up inadvertently hanging onto the reins as he/she came off or nearly came off...that would also restrict head lifting.

 

Dawn

[stephanie teeter]

I kept looking at these photos and wondering how the photographer just kept shooting, and resisted the urge (which I'm sure he had) to dive in and save some riders!!

I've also been taking photos during pending disasters... it's a real dilemma :)

Steph

[Dot Wiggins]

Any kind of tiedown, running martingale, or closed reins can be a hazard in water crossings.    The most dangerous is when a struggling horse gets a foot through the closed rein or halter rope or tiedown.   

 

Dot

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: K. Lynd

To: ride...@endurance.net

Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 11:01 AM

Subject: Re: [RC] From Sandy Thomson: GERA Photos are up!

[Joe Long]

On one of the Black Warrior rides in Alabama, a two-day ride, we had flash floods overnight before day one.  I re-routed onto the roads to avoid the flooded creeks -- they were not only high but had raging currents.  As flash floods often go down as fast as they came up, we told the riders at the halfway to follow the marked trail unless a spotter told them to take the road.  Then I went and checked the next creek -- it was still up so I placed the spotter.

Well, the spotter miscounted and left before the last rider came by.  That rider came to the creek, and thinking everyone else had crossed it tried to cross.  She was swept off of her horse but hung onto his mane as he clambered up the opposite bank.

When she didn't show up at the next vet check, I went to the creek and saw where her tracks went in ... but didn't see any coming out (those had washed away).  I thought she'd drowned and got ready to go call the sheriff when she showed up, having found her way back to camp by the roads.

On Jun 18, 2013, at 9:22 AM, ride...@juno.com wrote:

I had a Mississippi rider tell me about getting washed away in a flooded stream and her and her horse washing through a culvert. She said the only thing that kept her from drowning was the styrofoam in her helmet helping her keep her head above water. There's one more reason for a helmet...floatation device!

 

-- 

Joe Long  aka ChipRider

jl...@chiprider.com

A++ G+ PKR+ PEG+ B+ M+

[ride...@juno.com]

I agree Dot. A running martingale is an accident waiting to happen in water. A horse tends to step very high when walking through water. I've had a horse that got in deep mud lunge around and actually break the part of the breast collar that hooked to the girth and it was NOT hanging *that* loose! Lynda Webber was crossing  deep pool at Million Pines on Bailey when he got tangled in his running martingale. Kyle Gibbon jumped off in chest deep water in early spring and saved him. Look at the horses that start lunging. If  rider goes off and you've got all those strong biothane straps hooked to nylon reins for his legs to go through you could end up with a horse who literally couldn't get his legs under him at all. I thought about it a lot :-P. On day one, riding Tally when it was really flooded I unhooked my running martingale from the breastcollar, then held the part of the breastcollar that went over his neck up a bit to make sure there was no slack between his legs. Trouble was I couldn't pull the martingale all the way around on one side with it hooked to the opposite rein so I look a little strange trying to steer him across. We had to cross it twice, once the first and then on the last leg of the ride so on the last leg after he'd calmed a bit I just took the martingale off all together.  On day two I started the ride on Seven in a hackamore so I wouldn't need the martingale. He'd had one on at the end of a 100 before but i'd never started him in one. Learn something every day. When you hold 7 back with a hackamore he bucks! :-P  Switched to just a snaffle with no martingale for the last loop that day. Ideally, I'd have preferred no breastcollar *or* martingale...and some trigger snaps that would break on my reins. I was concerned that they were buckled directly to my bit.

 

Angie McGhee

 

 

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[Truman Prevatt]

That is the very reason I don't use any tack that is not absolutely necessary including no breast collar - my saddle fits well and I can walk up hill so steep it would slip.  I haven't had to do that.  I don't use cruppers.  If there is a question, I use split reins instead of closed reins.  I used to use a breast collar from time to time until I saw what happened to a horse that stepped into a mucky bottom and struggle to get out.  

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"I cannot call to mind a single instance where I have ever been irreverent, except toward the things which were sacred to other people." - Mark Twain 

[Jody Rogers-Buttram]

Ok.  In defense of all.....it was deep, but I have seen WAY worse in the long ago years.  Not sure why so many horses had an issue with this crossing.

We, (Joni and I) took two greenies across with no problem, and we took two experienced horses with no problem.  All but one had a running martingale on.

Now, I totally understand where those concerns cam from.  I have know of horse drowning with STANDING martigales, but I think if a perfect rein you're ok

with the running martingale.  BUT, I KNEW we were not going to have to swim this crossing.  Had it been a swimming thing, yes, I may have unhooked some stuff. 

Of course when in doubt, undo.  But for the RM's, it was NOT that dangerous a crossing as the pictures are depicting it to be.  Ok?

 

Jody

[Dawn Carrie]

I don't think it looked dangerous...it looked like fun and added an unusual element to the ride.  My martingale clips to rings on the reins, so it would have been easy for me to unclip those and just leave the short martingale hanging from the breast collar.  Like I said in one of my posts, I've crossed a stream after a heavy rain that was over my horse's back and he floated briefly.  Wasn't any big deal, he found his feet and we went out the other side and up the bank.

 

Dawn

[stephanie teeter]

Maybe some people panic at difficult crossings and pull the horse one way or another - confusing the animal or throwing it off balance?

[Joe Long]

Thanks, it looked that way to me.  A horse took a nasty tumble going in, but the river itself didn't look that bad.  No worse than the Shenandoah on the Old Dominion which most riders crossed in the dark.

Remember that creek crossing years ago in Mississippi where it was deep muddy bogs?  You were still a Junior and I was sponsoring you.  You crossed ahead of me, and had gotten off to lead your horse when he panicked.  He pulled you off your feet into the mud, then spun around and stepped on you!  

On Jun 18, 2013, at 12:52 PM, Jody Rogers-Buttram wrote:

Ok.  In defense of all.....it was deep, but I have seen WAY worse in the long ago years.  Not sure why so many horses had an issue with this crossing.

We, (Joni and I) took two greenies across with no problem, and we took two experienced horses with no problem.  All but one had a running martingale on.

Now, I totally understand where those concerns cam from.  I have know of horse drowning with STANDING martigales, but I think if a perfect rein you're ok

with the running martingale.  BUT, I KNEW we were not going to have to swim this crossing.  Had it been a swimming thing, yes, I may have unhooked some stuff. 

Of course when in doubt, undo.  But for the RM's, it was NOT that dangerous a crossing as the pictures are depicting it to be.  Ok?

 

Jody

[ride...@juno.com]

>>>>But for the RM's, it was NOT that dangerous a crossing as the pictures are depicting it to be.� Ok?

�

Jody

 

Agreed. Stop action photos make things look far more dramatic. As you can see when someone comes off, the trick is..."stand up". >g< I believe even the smallest junior would have had no problem keeping their head above water. My only concern was getting tangled.  Personally, I kind of wish it was always this high. It really cleaned your horse off for you. No sponging the belly back at camp! :-)

 

Angie

 

[Truman Prevatt]

That is not a particularly difficult crossing even in deep water. The bottom footing is good.  I suspect it was more fun because there were a lot of people and horses there at the same time.  I remember crossing the river when the current was pretty good but there were only two of us.  Head up stream and come back where you belong.  No problem.  But throw in 20 or so horses it could get to be fun.  It only takes one to act up and then you have a huge case of "monkey see monkey do."

Truman

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[Truman Prevatt]

On Jun 18, 2013, at 3:14 PM, Joe Long <jl...@chiprider.com> wrote:

Thanks, it looked that way to me.  A horse took a nasty tumble going in, but the river itself didn't look that bad.  No worse than the Shenandoah on the Old Dominion which most riders crossed in the dark.

Remember that creek crossing years ago in Mississippi where it was deep muddy bogs?  You were still a Junior and I was sponsoring you.  You crossed ahead of me, and had gotten off to lead your horse when he panicked.  He pulled you off your feet into the mud, then spun around and stepped on you!  

That explains a lot ;-)!

Truman

On Jun 18, 2013, at 12:52 PM, Jody Rogers-Buttram wrote:

Ok.  In defense of all.....it was deep, but I have seen WAY worse in the long ago years.  Not sure why so many horses had an issue with this crossing.

We, (Joni and I) took two greenies across with no problem, and we took two experienced horses with no problem.  All but one had a running martingale on.

Now, I totally understand where those concerns cam from.  I have know of horse drowning with STANDING martigales, but I think if a perfect rein you're ok

with the running martingale.  BUT, I KNEW we were not going to have to swim this crossing.  Had it been a swimming thing, yes, I may have unhooked some stuff. 

Of course when in doubt, undo.  But for the RM's, it was NOT that dangerous a crossing as the pictures are depicting it to be.  Ok?

 

Jody

-- 

Joe Long  aka ChipRider

jl...@chiprider.com

A++ G+ PKR+ PEG+ B+ M+

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"Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by fighting back."  - Paul Erdos

[Teddy Lancaster]

Somehow I think that IF one were to swim a horse with a running martingale, they are NOT doing so on purpose because it must be attached to a breastplate or saddle, in which case, the "swim" is probably unexpected and the smart thing for a rider to do then, is to disengage himself from the horse!  Then this becomes a moot point because the horse will (and should) have his "freedom" to extricate himself, unhindered by the rider.  On the other hand, any fool that wants to swim with his horse should not even have the martingale or saddle on the horse.  In a case like an "unexpected" dowsing in a river (as on this ride) you can tell by many of the photos, that NO ONE is trying to manage their horse's head.  40 years of riding tell me that in situations like this, let the horse have his head, stay on if you must, the horse can recover himself far batter 90% of the time, without the rider.

[Teddy Lancaster]

I concur, but there are horses, saddles and situations where they may be necessary.  You learn by doing....And, never complain when some hardware breaks... it should when the horse gets in a bad situation.

--

Teddy Lancaster
http://runningbear.com/
5991 NC Hwy 22 N
Climax, NC 27233
800-533-BEAR

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Truman Prevatt]

Which might be a very good reason for brass buckles for such things as breast colors, reins, etc. vs. stainless.   Brass is much softer than steel and will break much easier.  I must admit that I have been very lucky in having a horse with a very good back for a saddle.  Find the right saddle and it just stays in place and causes no issues.  

Truman

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[Teddy Lancaster]

Thanks Truman.....

You know I have used Brass Hardware almost exclusively for 34 years in almost all the tack we make.  Yes, Stainless is tougher and maybe matches something else. But push come to shove, I'll take hardware that will break in an emergency rather than have my horse (or my customers and their horses) hurt over some piece of tack that does not give in an emergency.  And, I'd far rather fix tack or replace it than a horse (and a customer cannot be replaced....). BioThane is also tough..some tougher than the hardware (depending on what it's used for) and usually tougher than leather.

Our sport is SO different than most other equine sports, and affords higher and different risks than many and it is up to all of us to be aware and ready for just about anything these wonderful and sometimes unpredictable creatures will and can do!

--

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Barbara McCrary]

This has been an interesting discussion. I just have to share with all an experience I had once with a river and a horse. I was competing in an obstacle ride where each obstacle was timed and had a set time limit, say 45 seconds, for example. If the rider and horse completed the obstacle in less than 45 seconds, the score was the number of seconds. If it took longer than the 45 seconds, the score was doubled to 90. If the horse refused, the score tripled. Very interesting ride…

One of the obstacles was a DEEP river crossing (about 12 feet) – the horse HAD to swim.

My first attempt at this obstacle was a disaster. I had been told to loosen the breast plate (western style, across the chest) and the girth, because the horse needed to breathe deeply in order to swim. I did as advised and half way across the river, the horse began to dog paddle – vertically. As if in slow motion, I found myself, seated in the saddle, gently floating down the river – without the horse. He took off up the trail without me. There were lots of personnel manning this ride, so someone caught the horse and brought him back to me. I was fished out of the river. Since there were no other riders coming along, I asked for another try, without any change in my score. The same thing happened again. I gave up this time. The NEXT year, I was prepared. I had found out that this horse would duck his head if I hung onto his mane. So when I approached the same obstacle again, a year later, I was ready, and hoped my plan would work. I did not loosen any of the tack, and when I got into deep water, I floated above the saddle, hung onto the horse’s mane (whereupon he kept his head and body horizontal instead of vertical as before), and he made that 45 second obstacle in 11 seconds flat. Fortunately, it had been a hot day and I dried off fairly quickly and wasn’t chilled. I will always remember these incidents with great humor. I could only wish someone could have taken a video, but I suspect this was before video cameras were commonplace.

 

Barbara

[Janice Taylor]

Once upon a time: We were to cross a river to a vet check then go back across to the trail again. Unfortunately, the powers to be decided to opened the dam at the reservoir to release some water up river, just in time for us to cross... I got across OK, even though my horse was taking a few steps on the bottom then swimming a few strides then another few steps etc. I was using running martingale and thought nothing of it. I guess I was giving him his head and he had no trouble.

But, the water kept getting higher and as we prepared to cross again in another location just down stream, a couple of horses were ahead of us and started having trouble. The rider was nervous and holding back against her horse who had on a standing martingale. The horse started to panic because he was being held under water. As luck would have it, her friend kept a cool head and was able to reach her horse and unsnapped the martingale so the horse could get his head above water.

At that point, I quickly took off my running martingale!! Whew, it could have been much worse than it was.

Our only real excitement other than watching with horror the other riders struggles, was my friend's tall boots were filled to the top with water...

Janice

All the sounds dear to horseman were around me ~ the snorts of horses, the swish of their tails, the tinkle of irons as we flung the saddles over their backs ~ little sounds of no importance, but they stay with us in the unconscious library of memory.
Wynford Vaughan-Thomas

www.janusstudio.blogspot.com

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[Truman Prevatt]

There is a very nice horse camping facility in the Ocala NF.  There is a nice sand bottom lake there and many clubs have camp outs there.  A lot of people learn to swim with their horses there.  Take them out with no tack, a halter and lead rope and swim with them.   The best way is what you did and hold onto the maine and flow above them and let them pull you along.  If you sit on them - you will push their back down and they can't swim very well.  Just try swimming with someone pushing your butt down.    It was always a lot of fun to take a new horse into the lake.  It was a big lake and they would stand on the shore line and look out like "hey bub this things goes on forever."  However, most horses would go in and I think most actually enjoyed it - particularly on hot days after a ride.  My old mare actually loved the water.  The only thing was after she learned how good the cool water feels, I had to watch her or she would lay down in the water.  

Truman

On Jun 19, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Barbara McCrary <bigcre...@wildblue.net> wrote:

This has been an interesting discussion. I just have to share with all an experience I had once with a river and a horse. I was competing in an obstacle ride where each obstacle was timed and had a set time limit, say 45 seconds, for example. If the rider and horse completed the obstacle in less than 45 seconds, the score was the number of seconds. If it took longer than the 45 seconds, the score was doubled to 90. If the horse refused, the score tripled. Very interesting ride…

One of the obstacles was a DEEP river crossing (about 12 feet) – the horse HAD to swim.

My first attempt at this obstacle was a disaster. I had been told to loosen the breast plate (western style, across the chest) and the girth, because the horse needed to breathe deeply in order to swim. I did as advised and half way across the river, the horse began to dog paddle – vertically. As if in slow motion, I found myself, seated in the saddle, gently floating down the river – without the horse. He took off up the trail without me. There were lots of personnel manning this ride, so someone caught the horse and brought him back to me. I was fished out of the river. Since there were no other riders coming along, I asked for another try, without any change in my score. The same thing happened again. I gave up this time. The NEXT year, I was prepared. I had found out that this horse would duck his head if I hung onto his mane. So when I approached the same obstacle again, a year later, I was ready, and hoped my plan would work. I did not loosen any of the tack, and when I got into deep water, I floated above the saddle, hung onto the horse’s mane (whereupon he kept his head and body horizontal instead of vertical as before), and he made that 45 second obstacle in 11 seconds flat. Fortunately, it had been a hot day and I dried off fairly quickly and wasn’t chilled. I will always remember these incidents with great humor. I could only wish someone could have taken a video, but I suspect this was before video cameras were commonplace.

 

Barbara

 

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“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”  - Steven Weinberg