Flex panel pressure pt question

[Mary K]

Can anyone explain how reactor panel or orthoflex saddles avoid having all the pressure ultimately concentrate where the bolts connect the panels to the saddle? I'm shopping around and wonder if this is a fatal flaw or whether there's some engineering genius involved that I don't understand. Thanks!

[Lynne Glazer]

Hi, Mary.  Only half a cup of joe on board, but I'll bite.

This has been my #1 question from people considering RPs.  Since the mounting points are repositionable on the tree's underside, the net result is even pressure throughout the panel area.

From the FAQ (caffeine already on board for someone!) :

4. Do the attaching discs make four high pressure points?

Many people assume that higher pressure exists under the discs. However, because the panel design spreads pressure outward in a horizontal plane, and because there is contact between the bottom of the saddle and the top of the panels, pressure points are eliminated when the saddle has been properly fit to the horse. Computerized pressure analysis bears this out as does an examination of a horse that has been ridden consistently in a ReactorPanel Saddle. The horse’s muscular development and lack of back pain tell the whole story.

Here's an old photo used to show disc sizes, but it's useful to show how there's no bridging when properly fitted.   Yeah, that horse was super tall, wasn't hard to shoot this angle!

cheers,

Lynne

On Feb 9, 2013, at 8:05 AM, Mary K <lazy...@comcast.net> wrote:

Can anyone explain how reactor panel or orthoflex saddles avoid having all the pressure ultimately concentrate where the bolts connect the panels to the saddle?  I'm shopping around and wonder if this is a fatal flaw or whether there's some engineering genius involved that I don't understand.  Thanks!

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[Laney Humphrey]

Hey, Lynne, if you explain things that clearly with only 1/2 of "cup of
joe" on board, you'd be killer with a whole cup.

From a user's point of view, years ago I used an RP Baker for
endurance. Fantastic saddle, never any pressure problems. Now I ride
weekly with a friend who has used an RP endurance saddle on her now 22
yr. old NSH both for trail and endurance. Fits both horse & rider
perfectly. It's hard to believe that the panel design can actually
spread the pressure evenly over the entire back, but they do. Great
engineering involved there.
Laney

On 2/9/2013 9:12 AM, Lynne Glazer wrote:
> Hi, Mary. Only half a cup of joe on board, but I'll bite.
>
> This has been my #1 question from people considering RPs. Since the
> mounting points are repositionable on the tree's underside, the net
> result is even pressure throughout the panel area.
>
> From the FAQ (caffeine already on board for someone!) :
> 4. Do the attaching discs make four high pressure points?
>
> Many people assume that higher pressure exists under the discs. However,
> because the panel design spreads pressure outward in a horizontal plane,
> and because there is contact between the bottom of the saddle and the
> top of the panels, pressure points are eliminated when the saddle has
> been properly fit to the horse. Computerized pressure analysis bears
> this out as does an examination of a horse that has been ridden

> consistently in a ReactorPanel Saddle. The horse�s muscular development

> and lack of back pain tell the whole story.
>
> Here's an old photo used to show disc sizes, but it's useful to show how
> there's no bridging when properly fitted. Yeah, that horse was super
> tall, wasn't hard to shoot this angle!
>
>

> cheers,
> Lynne
>
> On Feb 9, 2013, at 8:05 AM, Mary K <lazy...@comcast.net

> <mailto:lazy...@comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>> Can anyone explain how reactor panel or orthoflex saddles avoid having
>> all the pressure ultimately concentrate where the bolts connect the
>> panels to the saddle? I'm shopping around and wonder if this is a
>> fatal flaw or whether there's some engineering genius involved that I
>> don't understand. Thanks!
>>
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>> You received this message because you are subscribed to

>> ride...@endurance.net <mailto:ride...@endurance.net>

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>> To post to this group, send email to ride...@endurance.net

>> <mailto:ride...@endurance.net>

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[Ed & Wendy Hauser]

On 2/9/2013 10:05 AM, Mary K wrote:
> orthoflex saddles avoid having all the pressure ultimately concentrate where the bolts connect the p

I can't speak for RP saddles, but we have used OF (original Nevada, MO
flavor) since 1992 on a variety of horses.

If the rigidity of a OF panel is proper (Len Brown asked the rider's
weight when he made or rebuilt a saddle), the front and back bend when
the saddle is put on the horse. This causes the center to bow in the
opposite direction spreading the weight. If a horse has an unusual back
shape, Len taught how to place thin shims of closed cell foam in the
right places to redistribute the weight.

At the time the computer operated pads to measure weight distribution
did not exist. I learned how to use my hand between the occupied saddle
and the horse to guess where shims might be required. Then it was/is
for me a process of trial and error.

Ed

--
Ed & Wendy Hauser 5729 175th Avenue Becker, MN 55308 Ed- (406) 381-5527
Wendy- (406) 544-2926

[Lynne Glazer]

Ed,

WIth an OF, the mounting points are permanent, so your only action can be to shim so it doesn't bridge. There are many horses for whom that won't work due to an asymmetry like a bulky shoulder that needs more freedom of movement.

If a horse has a big slope from the croup, the rear of the panel can exert too much pressure. Again, if the mounting point could be adjusted that could be mitigated.

JMO of course, but I had an OF for 5 years, it worked on 35 horses (catch rode plus loaned it out for others to try) but not on mine who had the latter type of confo, much as it was my dream saddle and I wanted it to work. I went through a Wintec, Passier all purpose and a year and a half in a Sports Saddle before finding RP.

Lynne

[Sandra Adams]

It is actually erroneous to assume that a saddle will fit any and every horse simply because the panels flex. Ask anyone with a mutton withered horse who had the danged thing slide to the side....

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Sandy Adams

Deep Sands Arabians

www.garyadamsbooks.com

Home of Salazar SF

"The Gentleman Stallion"

[Ed & Wendy Hauser]

On 2/9/2013 1:28 PM, Lynne Glazer wrote:
> Ith an OF, the mounting points are permanent, so your only action can be to shim so it doesn't bridge. There are many horses for whom that won't work due to an asymmetry like a bulky shoulder that needs more freedom of movement.
>
> If a horse has a big slope from the croup, the rear of the panel can exert too much pressure. Again, if the mounting point could be adjusted that could be mitigated.

Thanks, good to know. RP may very well be an advance.

[Ed & Wendy Hauser]

On 2/9/2013 3:03 PM, Sandra Adams wrote:

erroneous to assume that a saddle will fit any and every horse simply because the panels flex.

Len Brown may have claimed that, but I only claim that the OF Endurance Lite has fitted a variety of horses that we have owned.

[tar...@juno.com]

Hi Mary,

I have an Sommer Oakfield saddle that has the flexible panels much like that of the OF. It is the one saddle that has NOT made my horses backs sore. The Sommer can be adjusted to three different widths ( easily by you) It too has the 4 attachment points on the panels just like the OF.  The panels flex front to back as well as side to side. Just as in the pic that another poster showed. I have found through many trial and error saddle fits....that spinal clearance is of utmost importance. I favor the western style endurance saddle but most are not made with the spinal clearance in the back part of the saddle. Synergist, specialized are other saddles that I would consider if not using a flex panel saddle because of the spinal clearance all the way through to the end of the saddle. I have tried many english type saddles but feel they did not distribute the weight well enough. And I am at 116 pounds. If you can borrow some one elses flex panel saddle for 3 days in a row and ride 3 days in a row without the horse having back pain....that is most likely the saddle for you and the horse. The one thing I did not like about the OF was that I was perched way too high atop my horse. When my horse did a spin, I came off like a rag-doll. (And I don't ever come off a horse) So just try the different models out. I am sure some sit you higher off the horses back than other models.

Tara

On Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:05:21 AM UTC-8, Mary K wrote:

[Karen Standefer]

There are several english saddles that afford both spinal clearance (greater than 3" in the rear) and also wide panels, enough to do distance riding.  The newer Sommer Saddles (made since around 2004 or so), Schleese, Trilogy, JRD and maybe a couple others (oh, and Chardanal).  Most of these also have adjustable trees so that the saddle can be customized for your horse over his lifetime (Trilogy does not, but the other 3 do).  they also all have flexible trees.  Of the 4, I still prefer the Sommer as I like their tree design better.  But, you can get a good fit with all 4 of them.  They also all have cut back front points to ensure no pressure over the shoulders.

[Mary K]

What great replies all of you--thank you!!

[Mary Watkins]

I am reviewing a long list of RideCamp posts....bear with me, in case
someone else has answered, please.

Both companies state the saddles chosen have to be "well fitting". That
means you need to choose a saddle style that has a width, length, tree
angle and tree contour that is compatible to the horse, to start.

The saddles need to placed upon the horse in the correct location and
stay there. It needs to be balanced upon the horse.

Both brands of saddles have a rigid "plastic" inside the panels. I think
this is Delrin, for both brands.
Both brands of saddles have long, broad panels contacting the horse's
back...compared to traditional flocked panels or rigid Western bars.

Ortho-Flex tends to have three graduated sizes of "plastic" layers
inside the panels. The panels are covered with foam...on the side that
contacts the horse. The panels are available in different lengths and
different flexibility levels. The basic idea with the Ortho-Flex system
is called Progressive Loading. This is the weight of the rider and
saddle pushing down against the first layer of Plastic/Delrin. That
pressure goes down and LATERALLY against the second layer of
Plastic/Delrin. The pressure on the second layer is then transferred
even more to the third layer. The intention is to distribute the
pressure LATERALLY over a BROAD weight bearing area, compared to
traditional saddles. High pressure dispersed over a broad area results
in less pressure per square inch.

Ortho-Flex panels are attached to the saddle with a bolt system that has
the ability to rock the panel into wider/narrower positions. The bolts
attachment to the panels at the rear allow the panels to slide
forward/backward a bit, to allow contour to the horse as well.

ReactorPanel has a single layer of "plastic" inside the panels. The
panels are covered with foam...on the side that contacts the horse. The
panels are available in different lengths. The single layer of
Plastic/Delrin inside the panels has been cut into a specifically
engineered pattern that allows pressure from the weight of the rider and
saddle to be dispersed LATERALLY over a BROAD weight bearing area,
compared to traditional saddles. Again, high pressure dispersed over a
broad area results in less pressure per square inch.

ReactorPanel panels are attached to the saddle with WIDE/SOFT rubber
discs and Velcro. These discs allow the panels to adjust wider/narrower
with the dynamic movement of the horse. The front of the panels move
independently of the rear of the panels...with the movement of the
horse's muscles. The discs are available in three thicknesses. The
discs can be moved and repositioned to fine-tune the fit to the horse OR
fine-tune the balance or fit for the rider.

I am aware of SOME problems with Ortho-Flex bolts and pressure sores
upon the horse.
I am NOT aware of ANY instances of this occurring with ReactorPanel saddles.

I am VERY familiar with both brands of saddles.

If you are asking which brand is least likely to have a bolt-pressure
problem...my recommendation is a ReactorPanel saddle. Of course, there
are no bolts. But also...you will receive as saddle that is specific to
the width and angle specifications of your horse...AND it has the
potential to be adjusted in a great number of ways for further
improvement, if needed.

Mary W.