flaxseed for horses questions
Cindy Stafford
Pat Robinson
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Pat
fast horses and slow bikes :)
Kathy Sherman
quarter cup then. I know I could have fed more but there didn't seem
to be any reason to. I've gotten lazy and now feed it whole, a half
cup daily when there is no fresh green pasture for the horses to
nibble. My feed store doesn't carry it but they order it for me.
Kathy
Roxanne Ciccone
| I have 3 horses and I divide an 8oz cup between the 3 each day. I use whole flax seed and just mix it in a little water and top dress on their grain. You loose a lot of the benefit if you give ground, unless you grind right before feeding. Rockie --- On Wed, 9/26/12, Cindy Stafford <zoeyb...@yahoo.com> wrote: |
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Chrystal Woodhouse
| Kathy Sherman <sherm...@gmail.com>
Sent by: ridecampre...@googlegroups.com 09/26/2012 12:20 PM
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Jennifer Fleet
I buy a 50 lb sack from the feedstore and store it in the house, out of the heat. I grind ½ cup for each horse daily to add to their other supplements.
Becky Hackworth
Carla Richardson
mash. My horse gets one cup ground brown flax seed daily (except not
at rides because I don't have any way to grind it at a ride, so he
just gets Ultium and beet pulp shreds while at rides). He likes it.
My feed store carries whole brown flax seed in bulk, 35 lb sacks. I
would imagine any feed store would special order it for you. As you
can imagine, a 35 lb sack lasts a long time, it's important to store
in a cool and dry place. I have mine in my kitchen pantry. It's
pretty pricey but I don't have to buy it very often. I do believe it
helps keep weight on my horse and is very beneficial nutritionally
adding omega 3 fat.
Carla
Mary Watkins
I prefer to grind mine immediately before feeding. I keep an electric coffee grinder in the feed room. Most of what I have read does state the nutrients oxidize very quickly in ground flax seed, even if "stabilized".
I use the top of the mill as a scoop. I think it may be about a quarter of a cup of seeds once a day. Top dress on feed daily. You can feed more. There is a limit though...but, I think it is an astronomical amount...I didn't bother to remember how much that was.
I decided to use this because I wanted to use anything I could to help one horse gain and keep weight on. And, I wanted to help the other with an age-related gait difficulty. I have been using this for nine months and I am satisfied with the cost and the results.
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Susan Garlinghouse, DVM
I’ve formulated rations that included several pounds (that’s pounds, not cups) of flaxseed for horses performing at extremely high levels, so you can actually feed quite a bit without a problem. It’s a good idea to work them up to larger amounts over time, as the oil content introduced too quickly can cause some pretty spectacular projectile diarrhea otherwise. Most people wouldn’t consider that a benefit, there are some race track trainers that will do it deliberately before a race to take off a bunch of “water weight” before a (flat track) race.
Most horses will show some benefit with a cup or two once or twice a day. However, because of the enzymes required to break down the component fatty acids into the bioavailable forms, the marine oils are more bioactive if you’re looking for some serious omega-3s. KER has a good product that’s deodorized (non-fishy-smelling or tasting) and stabilized. My guy gets some flax seed but also a squirt of the marine oil. KER is also producing some REALLY intriguing data about how insulin spikes produced by high-fat diets are normalized by the addition of an ounce or two of marine oil. You won’t get that benefit from just flaxseed or other fat sources. Pretty nifty stuff.
I used to get my flax seed at the feed store, but now I keep my eyes on the price at the local health-food stores like Sprouts or Wild Oats in the bulk bins. They have it on sale for less than a dollar pound fairly often and I just load up on it then. I grind it up in the spice grinder while I’m sitting in front of the TV, put it into freezer bags and dump it into the freezer. Stays fine for a couple months.
Susan Garlinghouse, DVM
From: Becky Hackworth [mailto:bec...@sti.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 10:19 AM
To: ride...@endurance.net
barbinthesprings
Shannon Chastain
Susan,
Is EO*3 the product you are talking about? I am assuming a squirt is the same as a pinchJ When I grin up my flax I have been putting it in an ice cream bucket do I need to put it in bags instead?
Thanks,
Shannon Chastain
Awesome Haily the Arab
And her mini Lil Max
Elway the Rottie
Tinkerbelle Queen of the Castle Yorkie
Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle
barefoot rider
Heather
Susan E. Garlinghouse, DVM
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Susan E. Garlinghouse, DVM
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Lisa Belhage
What are the benefits one would expect to see from feeding flaxseed?
-Lisa
Karen Standefer
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Pat Robinson
Susan Garlinghouse, DVM
Yes, you can, if you can get your horse to eat them. Some will, some won’t no matter what you do if they just don’t agree with the fishy taste or odor. My horse happens to be one of those that says no-way-jose, which is why using the KER EO3 is just easier for me (still a marine oil, but deodorized and flavored so it’s not as objectionable).
However, not all fish oil caps are created equal, as the concentration of DHA varies. Try to find the one with the highest concentration of DHA per capsule so you’re getting the most bang for your buck. There is also quite a bit of variation in the quality of the fish from which the oils are derived, and thus mercury content. Molecular distillation I think takes care of that issue if you are able to afford a source that’s distilled, but I’m still doing some reading on it.
The clinical dose for all four-legged critters is 30 mg/kg, which for a thousand-pound horse is about forty of a high-grade fish oil capsule that provides 300 mg of DHA per capsule. That’s probably not realistic for most people/horses. So add what you can. J
Susan Garlinghouse, DVM
Truman Prevatt
Yes, you can, if you can get your horse to eat them. Some will, some won’t no matter what you do if they just don’t agree with the fishy taste or odor. My horse happens to be one of those that says no-way-jose, which is why using the KER EO3 is just easier for me (still a marine oil, but deodorized and flavored so it’s not as objectionable).However, not all fish oil caps are created equal, as the concentration of DHA varies. Try to find the one with the highest concentration of DHA per capsule so you’re getting the most bang for your buck. There is also quite a bit of variation in the quality of the fish from which the oils are derived, and thus mercury content. Molecular distillation I think takes care of that issue if you are able to afford a source that’s distilled, but I’m still doing some reading on it.The clinical dose for all four-legged critters is 30 mg/kg, which for a thousand-pound horse is about forty of a high-grade fish oil capsule that provides 300 mg of DHA per capsule. That’s probably not realistic for most people/horses. So add what you can. JSusan Garlinghouse, DVM
“The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world” - Max Born
Susan Garlinghouse, DVM
>Susan,
>Since you in the Ask a Vet mode, someone was talking to my wife about this "wonderful" horse feed. It didn't use "nasty stuff" like beet >pulp, soy hulls, etc. It seemed to be based on linseed or flax seed meal, canola (rapeseed meal) meal and stabilized rice brand. I know for >cattle canola meal has always been considered a second rate source of protein compared to soy bean meal.
>
>I would think feeding straight fax seed would be better than feeding a combination of seed meals.
>
>Here is the web site for the particular product.
>
>
>What they are saying or implying seems to run counter to most of what is understood as good feeding for horses or am I missing >something.
>
>Truman
I think my gut reaction is about the same as yours, there’s just a bunch of statements being made that just aint so. Whether straight seed meal is better than a mix depends on why you’re feeding it. If you’re feeding it for omega-3 fatty acids, then straight flax is going to provide a higher concentration than blending it with canola and/or rice bran. The rice bran does add some vitamin E, which is nice, but that’s not what they’re marketing it towards.
Based on their website and product name of Hi-Pro, then they’re apparently trying to market it as a protein supplement, which is kind of bizarre. There are lots of other protein sources that are considerably higher in lysine, cheaper, etc---like soybean meal or just alfalfa. The weirder part is that the website states that grass hay alone doesn’t provide sufficient protein to a healthy horse’s diet, and that aint so. Sometimes a really poor forage source (like straw) can be deficient in crude protein (or specifically in lysine, the essential amino acid most likely to be in short supply), but if that were so, I wouldn’t use flax, canola or rice bran to fix the problem. You really only know for sure that grass hay is deficient in protein by getting it analyzed. Most of the time, it averages around 11% crude protein, which is plenty. And as you say, soybean meal is a far better quality protein supplement than canola is.
In full disclosure, I’ve never been a fan of Vita Royal in the least bit. I have yet to read any of their product descriptions or descriptions of managing a disease that didn’t send off a lot of major red flags. Things that just ain’t so (like that grass hay is deficient in protein and needs to be supplemented). And a lot of other statements that were pretty dodgy. I don’t like companies that use that kind of shady marketing to sell product, so I don’t use or recommend companies that do.
Susan Garlinghouse, DVM
Susan Garlinghouse, DVM
What are the benefits one would expect to see from feeding flaxseed?
-Lisa
Well, the relevant component in flaxseed is the omega-3 fatty acids it provides. Without turning this into a biochem lesson, omega-3s stabilize cell membranes, making them more flexible and less prone to damage and oxidation. That’s a lot of where the benefits to skin and coat show up, you just get a nicer hair coat, healthier skin and some nice improvements in hoof quality over time (since hoof tissue is the same protein as hair and vice versa).
It has some anti-inflammatory properties, while other fatty acids (omega-6s and 9s) prevalent in other vegetable oils do not. The anti-inflammatory properties are helpful with all kinds of inflammatory conditions in the body, a good number of which are the subject of research in multiple species (including humans). Some of the conditions that it seems to help with are arthritis, allergies, depression and geriatric cognitive disorders (Alzheimers and similar conditions), some cardiac conditions and cancer. As someone else here commented, it helps with some inflammatory eye conditions. I use it in my canine patients for keratoconjunctivitis sicca (dry eye) to increase mucous production in the eye. I also recommend it as a first-line treatment (along with Adequan) for virtually every species with the beginning stages of arthritis, before we eventually need to go to pharmaceutical therapies like carprofen, tramadol, things like that.
Given that it stabilizes membranes and increases flexibility, plus has anti-inflammatory properties, I suspect (and there’s probably research on it, but I haven’t gone looking) that it would be helpful in managing or preventing some injuries related to tendon, ligament or joint capsules.
I know that my oncologist has me on 1000 mg a day of DHA from algae sources, and the veterinary oncologists are using DHA supplementation for treating cancer in dogs as well, as it seems to have an effect in blocking the ability of some types of cancer to travel and metastasize elsewhere in the body. DHA and EPA are the two primary component fatty acids found in omega-3s that are of particular interest. While flax is a good source of omega-3s, marine oils bypass some of the metabolic cascade in the body required to produce the bioactive end product---and so marine oil is a more bioactive source than flax is. The other really cool thing specifically about marine oils is that they have some properties that smooth out insulin spikes that occur in high-fat diets.
Love this discussion, but must go see a barfing dog. Luckily, not one of mine. <vbg>
Susan Garlinghouse, DVM
Lisa Belhage
Cheers, Lisa (whose horses will get a bit of ground flaxseed topdressing tonight with their feed)
--
Nancy Reed
k s swigart
There is no difference in the substance.
Although, generally flax seed is the noun used to describe the whole seed
product, and linseed is an adjective used to describe flax seed's processed
products (e.g. linseed oil, linseed meal, etc.). Although some people also use
linseed as a noun which is a synonym with flax.
So, to be totally technical with respect to historical usage, flax seed is two
words (the seed of a flax plant), and linseed is one (an adjective used to
describe things make from flax seed). Not to be confused with things made of
flax fiber, which is, among other things, called linen.
But you can use flax seed and linseed interchangeably if you want, and the
people who know that they refer to the same substance will know what you are
talking about.
Or if you are dutch, there will only be one word. English is notorious for
having many words that mean the same thing. This comes from the fact that
English speakers, throughout history, have never been to proud to borrow words
from other languages and make them into English words.
TMI for some of you, I am sure.
kat
Orange County, Calif.
:)
Susan Garlinghouse, DVM
However, linseed meal generally refers to the leftover by-product meal after
the oil content has been removed. The leftover meal (also sometimes called
linseed cake) is used as a somewhat lower quality protein supplement for
livestock. Flax seed meal is the entire seed and still has the oil content
intact. Manufacturers generally don't use a lot of heat in grinding or
slicing the seed to make the meal, so that the volatile fatty acids remain
more or less intact.
As Kat said, linseed oil and flaxseed oil have the same origins, in that
they both came from the flax plant. The primary difference is that flax
seed oil is cold-pressed, and thus retains the qualities of the omega-3
fatty acids it contains. If the oil is extracted via heat processing, then
the omega-3 qualities are lost and it's just another source of vegetable oil
and calories. I have heard suggestions from time to time that you can feed
linseed oil from Home Depot for a lot less than flax seed oil, but they
aren't equivalent. One of the linseed oil sources at Home Depot (and off
the top of my head, I can't remember exactly which one, I'm sure someone
else here knows) is extracted using solvents and would be toxic if fed. The
other type is extracted using heat, and so at the very least, the omega-3
qualities have been lost in processing. As there's thus no point in feeding
your horse anything from Home Depot except maybe some alfalfa sprouts from
the garden department, I've forgotten the finer points beyond "don't do it".
Nancy asked about the stabilized flaxseed meal and yup, you can use that too
for the sake of convenience. Even though it's stabilized, it's not bullet
proof, so I still wouldn't store it in a blazing hot feed room in your barn
or trailer and expect it to remain as fresh as the day you bought it. It's
still going to oxidize to some extent or another.
Since we're talking about flax versus linseed, here's an interesting story
about how the tales of terror came about regarding how you can't feed more
than a cup or two because flax contains cyanogenic compounds and they'll
succumb to a swift and horrible death if you don't boil it or whatever
(which, by the way, also destroys the omega-3 fatty acid content). Back
towards the earlier years in the 20th century (I've forgotten in the exact
year), there was a load of cattle being shipped by rail to the feed lot.
For one reason or another, they were really hungry by the time they were off
loaded and gobbled down the food that had been dumped out for them. The
feed in the bunks by accident was an inordinately large amount of linseed
meal cake, which does contain a certain amount of a cyanogenic precursor.
When metabolized by a particular enzyme that ruminants produce in sufficient
quantity, the metabolic by-product is cyanide, which binds up the hemoglobin
molecules that would otherwise be carrying oxygen in the blood stream. Some
of the cattle started having breathing difficulties for awhile, and a few of
them died. I bet the feed lot guy that had dumped such a huge amount of
linseed meal (which, by the way, is also a pretty expensive feed compared to
just forage) into the bunks had to change his shorts and find a new job when
and if they figured out what the problem was. And thus the urban legend was
born that flax/linseed meal is toxic if fed in anything other than minute
quantities.
The thing is, there is a particular enzyme required for the cyanogenic
precursors to break down into active cyanide. Ruminants (like cattle and
sheep) produce the enzyme in abundance, but horses do not. The precursors
are still there if they're fed flax/linseed, but without that enzyme, it
just travels on through the GI and no harm done. There's never been a
single reported case of an equine having a problem with flax/linseed, yet
the urban legend still persists.
Susan Garlinghouse, DVM