Do I need an "endurance" saddle?

[Gregg Barrow]

I know many of the regular posters on here are at the convention, but I really do need some advise from experience distance riders....

My husband and I are fairly new to horses and absolutely new to endurance riding.  Our plans are to begin LD with the horses we currently have.  My mare is a well trained 10 year old cross bred - heavily muscled stock horse type but responsive under saddle.  I had been advised and had planned to stay with the dressage saddle that I currently ride for conditioning and LD rides.  But, an experienced rider (fifties and 100s) recently told me that a dressage saddle is not built for endurance riding with the constant two point.  And that due to the limited weight bearing design of dressage saddles, that it will cause some degree of discomfort to my horse - even if the saddle fits the horse well.

The saddle was used for the mare by her previous owner so I do not have any particular attachment to the saddle and did not pay a lot of money, although it is a good brand (Barnsby).  And my plan has always been to purchase a saddle that fits me better.  I did want a season under my belt so that I would have a better frame of reference for what I wanted in a saddle.  But, I very much want to minimize any type of saddle issues with my horse since I am not sure I'd notice the issue before it created a problem....

If I buy a saddle right now, it would be a Specialized Eurolight in wide.

Thank you for any advise you can offer this newbie who feels like she is foundering a bit between being pragmatic and potentially hurting her horse.

Thank you,
Soo Barrow

[Laney Humphrey]

Join the club!!! No matter how many miles or years we've got under
our belts, we all feel like we're walking that tightrope between
practicality and hurting our horse.
You don't say where you live but if possible, find an experienced
saddle fitter who can asses how well your saddle does fit your horse.
We've all bought expensive shoes thinking they would be better than
cheapo's only to find that they didn't fit better at all. Same with
saddles. Also, the saddle might have fit well enough for an hour's
worth of dressage but maybe not for hours and hours of riding on the
trails. OTOH, I rode many happy endurance miles in a dressage saddle
which fit both me & my horse well. So, either get help assessing your
saddle's fit or learn the basics of assessing saddle fit yourself
(lots of info on the web). If worse comes to worse, do an LD and ask
the vets to assess your saddle's fit. The vets exams may also reveal
how well it fits - sore back: bad fit, allowing the horse to travel
"upside down/inverted" or some other problem, not sore back: good
saddle fit and good riding.

If you haven't already, join the various green beans 'net groups for
lots of info and support. You aren't the only ones struggling to get
it all figured out!
Hope this helps
Laney
AERC12921

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[ra...@sisuwest.us]

On 3/6/2015 9:51 AM, Gregg Barrow wrote:

is foundering a bit between being pragmatic and potentially hurting her horse.

Rule #1:  Start distance riding with what you have.  This includes both horses and tack.

The only thing I might (emphasize might) change is to purchase and use during your conditioning a thicker, possibly memory foam, pad.  At the end of all of your conditioning rides, look for dry spots and feel the back muscles firmly.  If the saddle and riding combination is wrong you will see the horse react to the pressure.

Since the vets will be looking for back pain anyway, this is good training for the horse.  Some green horses react to having their muscles palpated.

You have been trotting your horse out after each conditioning ride, right?  This is important because if all rides end with a trot out in hand, the horse will anticipate the ride being done and not refuse when tired.

Welcome to the club.  Distance riding is not that difficult.  You will make mistakes but if you learn from them no real harm will be done.

Ed

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5729 175th Ave.
Becker, MN 55308

Ed: (406) 381-5527
Wendy: (406) 544-2926

[roxanne ciccone]

I don't know who gave you that advice, but if the saddle fits you and your horse go with it. Use a good pad and evaluate after your LD. I have over 12000 Endurance miles and the last few years I have used Dressage saddles. I feel they put you in the right position.
Good luck.
Roxanne Ciccone

Gregg Barrow <gsba...@gmail.com> wrote:

I know many of the regular posters on here are at the convention, but I really do need some advise from experience distance riders....

My husband and I are fairly new to horses and absolutely new to endurance riding.  Our plans are to begin LD with the horses we currently have.  My mare is a well trained 10 year old cross bred - heavily muscled stock horse type but responsive under saddle.  I had been advised and had planned to stay with the dressage saddle that I currently ride for conditioning and LD rides.  But, an experienced rider (fifties and 100s) recently told me that a dressage saddle is not built for endurance riding with the constant two point.  And that due to the limited weight bearing design of dressage saddles, that it will cause some degree of discomfort to my horse - even if the saddle fits the horse well.

The saddle was used for the mare by her previous owner so I do not have any particular attachment to the saddle and did not pay a lot of money, although it is a good brand (Barnsby).  And my plan has always been to purchase a saddle that fits me better.  I did want a season under my belt so that I would have a better frame of reference for what I wanted in a saddle.  But, I very much want to minimize any type of saddle issues with my horse since I am not sure I'd notice the issue before it created a problem....

If I buy a saddle right now, it would be a Specialized Eurolight in wide.

Thank you for any advise you can offer this newbie who feels like she is foundering a bit between being pragmatic and potentially hurting her horse.

Thank you,
Soo Barrow

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[Gregg & Soo Barrow]

Thank you Laney and Ed.  We haven't started conditioning for an LD yet.  I'm in West Virginia and it is 7 F today with a foot of snow.  I'm hopeful that we can start this weekend but next week for sure.  She has been in regular work so although she is in winter weight/coat, she is not out of condition.

Thank you for the sound advise and encouragement.

Soo

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[Carla Richardson]

Ride with what you have, if it has been working for your horse and you!  Do not spend thousands of dollars on a so-called perfect saddle, many of us have, and end up going back to what we had to start with.

Carla Richardson

[deser...@aol.com]

Hi Soo,
If you have not yet started conditioning, then you really don't know if the saddle will be suitable for LDs or not.  I suggest that you start conditioning, do the checks that others have recommended to check for back soreness, and go from there.  Once you are doing 10 mile or so conditioning rides, with lots of trotting, you'll have a better idea whether your saddle will work.  You don't NEED an "endurance" saddle, you need a saddle that fits your horse well and fits you.  I also used dressage saddles for many years in the early days without soring my horse. 

The fact is, you don't necessarily two-point the whole time you're trotting, you may be posting,  Ionly two-point when my horse is trotting too fast to post.  At a 7-9mph trot, I'd be posting.  The other thing to consider is that if you are heavy you may need to provide more support for your horse's back.  Also if you are not a good rider, you may put more stress on your horse's back due to not being in balance with your horse. 

A Skito pad has memory foam, can be made by Tom to fit almost any saddle.  It will provide more support than many other kinds of saddle pads.  A woolback pad is also great, and Skito makes them with wool or with wool/synthetic blend underneath.  Make sure that the pad has lots of wither clearance so it doesn't pull down on your horse's withers and cause pain. 

The bigger issue is that riding a heavily muscled stock type horse will increase your conditioning time by a LOT.  You will have to be careful that your horse cools adequately, as the heavy muscle generates a lot of heat.  You may need to go slower to start out than people riding lighter-built horses.   A friend started her husband in endurance on a Quarter/Percheron cross, and after one season, they bought a new horse for him because they were having trouble getting him to pulse down in the required time limit due to his lesser ability to stay cool.  At the time, she rode a paint, and her horse, not super heavily muscled, but definitely built like a stock horse, was pulsing down almost immediately at vet checks, then they'd have to wait another 15-20 minutes for her husband's horse to pulse down.  They rode a lot for conditioning, and have big hills to condition on, their horses were as well-conditioned as a first year LD horse can be.  It's just a lot harder to condtion and successfully ride a stock type horse.  Incidentally, they both bought new horses for this season, an Arab and an Anglo-Arab/Shagya that was brfed for endurance (by me). 

Because you may end up doing the same thing if you decide that endurance is for you, it makes no sense to buy a new saddle to fit your current horse until you've done a ride or two, and seen how the current combo of horse, saddle and rider work.  Best of luck in your new sport.  Please ignore the politics and craziness that's currently going on, Ridecamp is a great source of info about how to do endurance.  Where are you located?  There may be a mentor nearby listed at AERC.org, or through one of the local enduracne groups, like PNER in the northwest.  Also, look to see if there's an Endurance 101 clinic in your area.

Welcome to our sport, if we can help, we'll try our darndest.  No matter all the disagreements, we all love our horses and our sport.
jeri

[Lynn White]

Gregg,

 

You have not mentioned how much you weight.  Heavy-weight riders need to be more aware of weight distribution.  As a lightweight rode in a Stubben all-purpose for ten seasons and finally found something new beause I was dumb enough to sit in a very comfortable saddle that fit my horse.  Now I can't stand the Stubben.

 

Back soreness my not be apparent immediately after removing the saddle.  After a good long/fast ride check for back soreness a half-hour after you have taken the saddle off.  It's kind of like feeling the soreness of a heavy back-pack after you have taken it off.  It doesn't hurt right away, but a while later those pressure points really can get uncomfortable. 

 

But what ever you do, just start doing it.  This is kind of a learn-as-you-go sport.   

[Truman Prevatt]

You're already gotten a couple good answers.  The type of saddle is not as important as the fit of the saddle and the comfort of the saddle to both horse and rider. I have ridden in "endurance saddles," dressage saddles and all purpose saddles (English).  I would ride a dressage saddle on one of my horses and was very comfortable.  However, on the other one I needed my feet a little more forward so I switched to a all purpose.  Jordy had over 2000 miles and we are Decade Team members using the same all purpose. 

As Ed says - bring what you've got and go from there. The horse will tell you how it is works - you just have to ask.  A saddle that fits you well is important because if you are not balanced and comfortable - your horse will not be comfortable. 

Good luck.  

Truman

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"A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned to walk forward."  Franklin Roosevelt 

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[Kathy Mayeda]

Any type of saddle has its variations.  I don't think having a saddle fitter check for saddle fit is a cure all for ensuring a good fit.  I know saddle fitters that consistently overstuff saddles and that might work for a horse just being ridden dressage in the arena for short intervals, but may not work for long hours on the trail.  Some English saddles have nice flat panels, others might have too much of a rounded panel that might create pressure points.

I started out trail riding with English all-purpose and close contact saddles, but once I started doing endurance my whole game changed.  The first year I was in saddle fit hell until I broke down and spent the big bucks for a Reactor Panel saddle, and was fine riding my first endurance horse with that for many years.  The game changed again with my younger horse who absolutely hates the Reactor Panel saddle.  There is no one saddle that works or doesn't work for all horses.

Also, not all horses need to be ridden in two point all the time.  Riding in two point will increase the pressure under the stirrup bars and the weight distribution aspects of having a tree and panels is somewhat negated, no matter what what type of saddle you are riding in.  I suggest having a good Centered Riding instructor would go a long way in keeping you comfortable and in a balanced position so that you can ride full seat, half seat and two point equally with little effort.

K.

[Nathan Hoyt]

As a general rule, take all saddle suggestions with a grain of salt.  Some people swear by dressage saddles.  Others don't.  You have to find what works for you.  I would have a well referenced saddle fitter tweak your rig before you start, but other than that, ride what you have.  Check his back after every ride.  He'll let you know what doesn't work.  Your body will also:). 

Nate

Mostly harmless.

[Gregg & Soo Barrow]

Thank you for the welcome Jeri.  You offered some very sound advise and almost exactly what I was told at the beginning.  I've looked at the Skito and Toklat woolback and like what I read about both of them.  It will be interesting to see how quickly Mutt Mare does or does not recover.  I've ordered a stethoscope so I should know a bit more about pulse recovery fairly quickly. 

Maybe my mare will be an exception... I hope so as she suits me well. 

[Truman Prevatt]

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"Crash programs fail because they are based on the theory that, with nine women pregnant, you can get a baby a month. " Wernher von Braun

> On Mar 6, 2015, at 4:56 PM, Kathy Mayeda <klma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Also, not all horses need to be ridden in two point all the time. Riding in two point will increase the pressure under the stirrup bars and the weight distribution aspects of having a tree and panels is somewhat negated, no matter what what type of saddle you are riding in. I suggest having a good Centered Riding instructor would go a long way in keeping you comfortable and in a balanced position so that you can ride full seat, half seat and two point equally with little effort.

OMG - I am agreeing with Kathy M! What has the world come to ;-). I think one of the issues with endurance is the "two-point." Kathy is absolutely right - a good centered riding class or riding lessons from a good dressage instructor that can get you posting correctly, riding the canter correctly, etc. and riding in balance is essential. BTW in all the years and all the miles on the JBird - I didn't "two-point" one stride. He's 26, I still ride him. He is still sound. I'm not riding endurance because I'm too old and beat up - not the Jbird. And the old mare before him - not one "two-point" stride. It is really no more difficult to post than "two-point" and it is easier in the long run on your joints.

Truman
>

[Maryben Stover]

Start with the horse and equipment you have.  I rode my first 3,000 miles in a Steubben Wotan.  I have also ridden 50's in a western stock saddle.  I disagree that it is harder to condition and/or successfully ride a stock type horse, unless you want to go fast.  Fast is a whole nother ball game.  I have ridden arabs, a spotted saddle horse, an appy who looked like a great big quarter horse with spots.  I also rode a 16 h. mule.  All of them were different in the way they recovered at vet checks.  Getting off and loosening your girth and walking in the last 1/4 mile or so helps.  I would sponsor as many as 6 juniors at a time.  It takes a while to get 7 horses through a vet check.



..........mb

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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 16:59:20 -0500
Subject: Re: [RC] Do I need an "endurance" saddle?
From: gsba...@gmail.com
To: ride...@endurance.net

[Maryben Stover]

I forgot one thing.  Don't try anything new on your first ride.

Except, if you are wearing jeans, you might want to try something else before that first ride.  I rode for a number of years in English riding breeches and tall English riding boots.  That is what I had and it was actually quite comfortable. 



..........mb

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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 16:59:20 -0500

Subject: Re: [RC] Do I need an "endurance" saddle?
From: gsba...@gmail.com
To: ride...@endurance.net

[Gregg & Soo Barrow]

I'd like to thank everyone for all the advice and suggestions. I very much appreciate your thoughts and hope to meet you at a ride.

Soo