To soak or not to soak?

[Valerie Jaques]

This came up after an acquaintance on Facebook recommended soaking hay for horses during our current Southern California heat wave. He insists it prevents colic and he was told about it by several top vets. He goes on to say those vets told him this is not common advice from vets because colic is a big money maker for clinics.

Before he posted this I had never heard of such a thing. In all my years of horse ownership I've never soaked hay for colic prevention. My trainer has never done so, and she's had plenty of colic prone horses pass through her hands. I don't know a single person outside this guy who does it.

So I'm curious. How many Ridecampers *have* heard of it, and who does it and why?

To be clear I am not talking about soaking of hay for any reason other than as an effort to prevent colic in a heat wave.

[Truman Prevatt]

There are all sorts of recommendations for soaking hay.  For example - when you trailer soak the hay.  I found when I did that the hay made a mess and it would actually “sour" in quickly in heat. By that I mean start to smell like it was going bad.  

I have found that with good quality hay and plenty of water you should not have a problem. If anything in the drought and heat throwing a bit of salt in the food to get them to drink more would be what I would do. 

Truman

--

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently." Friedrich Nietzsche, The Dawn

--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to ride...@endurance.net
 
To post to this group, send email to ride...@endurance.net
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to: ridecamp+u...@endurance.net
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/a/endurance.net/group/ridecamp?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ridecamp+u...@endurance.net.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RidecampRedistributed" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ridecampredistri...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Kathy Mayeda]

I used to dump water over hay at endurance rides for hydration.  I think it's a good idea for a heat wave.  Just do enough that it gets eaten up within a short amount of time so it doesn't become a stinky grade mess.
Kathy Mayeda

--

[Maryben Stover]

Anyone who would say that vets withhold information about colic prevention because it is a big money maker for clinics is an idiot in my book and really needs a new vet.  Just having lost a horse to colic I can tell you my vets were almost as upset as I was.  They were there two nights in a row after 9:00 p.m.  They come from out of county and it takes them about 45 minutes to get to my place.  The first time, he was at my place about 5:00 p.m. and was probably home about 10 minutes when I call to tell him one of the horses was colicky and thrashing.  He came right back.  The next night, his partner came after dark and was there for a couple of hours teaching me about IV's etc.  The next day he had to come back and ended up euthanizing her.  I would not trade my vets for anyone.



..........mb

---

From: hamme...@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 22:06:22 +0000
Subject: [RC] To soak or not to soak?
To: ride...@endurance.net

[Barbara McCrary]

It’s not only idiotic, but it’s highly unethical. I do not believe any vet would refuse proper treatment for colic.

 

Barbara

[Diane Trefethen]

On 8/28/2015 5:33 PM, Maryben Stover wrote:
> Anyone who would say that vets withhold information about colic prevention
> because it is a big money maker for clinics is an idiot in my book and
> really needs a new vet. Just having lost a horse to colic I can tell you
> my vets were almost as upset as I was. They were there two nights in a row
> after 9:00 p.m. They come from out of county and it takes them about 45
> minutes to get to my place. The first time, he was at my place about 5:00
> p.m. and was probably home about 10 minutes when I call to tell him one of
> the horses was colicky and thrashing. He came right back. The next night,
> his partner came after dark and was there for a couple of hours teaching me
> about IV's etc. The next day he had to come back and ended up euthanizing
> her. I would not trade my vets for anyone.
>

Where's the Thumbs UP button?

[Bruce Weary]

      Can't you just see some dentist telling his staff, "Whatever you do, don't mention the words, 'dental floss.' "   

[cest.mo...@gmail.com]

I couldn't agree more Maryben.  I have seen how affected a vet is when faced with the realization they are not going to be able to save a horse.  To think they are doing it to make money is such a debased statement that it defies all logic 'to first do no harm.'

Sent from my LG G4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

------ Original message------

From: Maryben Stover

Date: Fri, Aug 28, 2015 5:34 PM

To: ridecamp;

Cc:

Subject:RE: [RC] To soak or not to soak?

Anyone who would say that vets withhold information about colic prevention because it is a big money maker for clinics is an idiot in my book and really needs a new vet.  Just having lost a horse to colic I can tell you my vets were almost as upset as I was.  They were there two nights in a row after 9:00 p.m.  They come from out of county and it takes them about 45 minutes to get to my place.  The first time, he was at my place about 5:00 p.m. and was probably home about 10 minutes when I call to tell him one of the horses was colicky and thrashing.  He came right back.  The next night, his partner came after dark and was there for a couple of hours teaching me about IV's etc.  The next day he had to come back and ended up euthanizing her.  I would not trade my vets for anyone.

..........mb

---

From: hamme...@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 22:06:22 +0000
Subject: [RC] To soak or not to soak?
To: ride...@endurance.net

This came up after an acquaintance on Facebook recommended soaking hay for horses during our current Southern California heat wave. He insists it prevents colic and he was told about it by several top vets. He goes on to say those vets told him this is not common advice from vets because colic is a big money maker for clinics.

Before he posted this I had never heard of such a thing. In all my years of horse ownership I've never soaked hay for colic prevention. My trainer has never done so, and she's had plenty of colic prone horses pass through her hands. I don't know a single person outside this guy who does it.

So I'm curious. How many Ridecampers *have* heard of it, and who does it and why?

To be clear I am not talking about soaking of hay for any reason other than as an effort to prevent colic in a heat wave.

--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to ride...@endurance.net
 
To post to this group, send email to ride...@endurance.net
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to: ridecamp+u...@endurance.net
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/a/endurance.net/group/ridecamp?hl=en


To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ridecamp+u...@endurance.net.

--

[Maryben Stover]

We were talking about the mobile vets who come to euthanize animals and he said he could never do that.  He needs for his patients to live if possible.




..........mb

---

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 19:01:40 -0700
Subject: Re: [RC] To soak or not to soak?
From: cest.mo...@gmail.com
To: merr...@live.com; ride...@endurance.net

[Shannon Loomis]

As a vet, I completely insulted by the insinuation that we are in it for the money and would recommend anything not n the best interest of preventative health. I'm so insulted, I cannot even express the extent of the insult. 

Shannon Loomis

QED Farm - Sport Morgans

Pleasant Creek, WV

[Cris Potmesil]

Every Veterinarian of my acquaintance – large and small animal – would feel just as you. I am beyond insulted for them. We have soaked hay for metabolic syndrome/Cushings reasons, and have had Vets recommend wetting hay for other reasons if it was at all possible the horse would eat it. Some just won’t eat it if it’s wet, others don’t seem to mind or notice.

[Nathan Hoyt]

Soaking hay gets more water into the horse with the hay, but the horse will drink less water as a result.  Soaking hay doesn't prevent colic because it doesn't increase the net volume of water consumed.  Any perceived benefit is a placebo effect.

Lots of self-proclaimed horse gurus swear there is some secret cabal of vets intent on withholding information from the masses in order to preserve business.  Their cousin who works at the feed store told them so.  Simple economics proves that is not the case.  If I deny information to you, the next vet you see won't and will look like a hero as a result.  I'll be discredited and you won't spend money with me again.  You'll tell your friends and they won't spend money with me.  I will then starve to death in a snow drift and take all my secret information to the coyote 'cuz I won't be able to afford a grave.

This will surprise everyone who pays a vet bill for a sick horse, but mobile vets don't make much of a profit treating sick horses.  We make our money by keeping them healthy and generally just hope to break even on the sick ones.  Pumping time and drugs into a 1000# critter is expensive for all parties involved.

Nate

Mostly harmless.

[k s swigart]

Valerie said:

> To be clear I am not talking about soaking of hay for any reason

> other than as an effort to prevent colic in a heat wave

Personally, I would be more concerned about wet hay going bad in the heat and causing colic, than in letting my horse eat dry hay at his leisure (which he does by dunking it in his water trough to make it wet).

Trust me, I know how quickly wet hay can get really gross when the weather is hot.

I am off now to go change my horse's skanky water because he has been dunking his hay in it for the past two days.

kat

[Barbara McCrary]

Nate, I wish I could meet you. I love your kind of humor!

 

Barbara

 

From: ridecampre...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ridecampre...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 'Nathan Hoyt' via ridecamp at Endurance.Net
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2015 11:25 AM
To: ride...@endurance.net
Subject: Re: [RC] RE: vets

 

Soaking hay gets more water into the horse with the hay, but the horse will drink less water as a result.  Soaking hay doesn't prevent colic because it doesn't increase the net volume of water consumed.  Any perceived benefit is a placebo effect.

[KSherman]

Soaking hay is good if the horse will eat it and if it doesn't go bad and then have to be thrown away, Another very important supplement that nearly every horse should have easy accesss to is loose salt in a pan.  I actually give 4 TBS daily to all horses when the temps are over 90, they get it in a small pan of beet pulp and EGM's pelleted grass hay. Not a salt block as they are designed for cows' rough tongues. I did use wet hay here at home and on a 100 mile ride, seemd to work good, don't know if it changed but sounds or metabolics in any way tho. 

Kathy

[Carla Richardson]

I know, I always enjoy Nate's posts, amusing and to the point!

Anyone who suspects that veterinarians withhold information in order to make more money is a sad, little person.  Veterinarians I have known through all sorts of trials and tribulations have been the best, I am thankful for their love of animals and patience with humans...

Carla Richardson

[Lynn White]

I listened to a vet's "Endurance 101" talk about soaking hay several years ago.  His reason against it was that dry hay stimulated saliva secretion along with longer chewing times.  This made the digestion of hay easier on the stomach of the horse and buffered the acids.  His opinion was there was no substitution for just having the horse drink plenty of clean water.  We didn't seem to be against low-sugar mashes, just that in his opinion the horses needed to chew and salivate.  Makes sense to me.

-Lynn 

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 2:48 AM, KSherman <sherm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Soaking hay is good if the horse will eat it and if it doesn't go bad and then have to be thrown away, Another very important supplement that nearly every horse should have easy accesss to is loose salt in a pan.  I actually give 4 TBS daily to all horses when the temps are over 90, they get it in a small pan of beet pulp and EGM's pelleted grass hay. Not a salt block as they are designed for cows' rough tongues. I did use wet hay here at home and on a 100 mile ride, seemd to work good, don't know if it changed but sounds or metabolics in any way tho. 

Kathy

[Karen Sullivan]

Interesting and possibly a good idea. Soaking can provide some other
advantages in removing some sugars from the hay, and rinsing off some
dust for coughing horses

> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RidecampRedistributed" group.

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

[Valerie Jaques]

Thanks, everyone, for your responses. Like many of you, I was rather appalled at the suggestion vets would regularly withhold information known to prevent colic for the purpose of keeping their business humming. I tried to keep my original post as neutral as possible simply because I wanted to see how others would react. I especially love Bruce's example of dentists not telling patients about dental floss. /dies

There were many things in the conversation I had with the individual advocating this that made me roll my eyes. His "scientific evidence" of efficacy was 28 horses, 6 not getting soaked hay all colicked on the same day. As if there weren't untold numbers of other horses in the same vicinity on similar management plans not receiving soaked hay who did not colic. And vets won't tell people because they want the money for treating colics, and this was told to him by "top vets" who he would not name, and evidently they also told him they only tell their best clients this. There are so many inconsistencies and so much nonsense I'm surprised my eyes haven't stuck rolled up in my head!

I'm with Kat on the soaked hay going bad thing. I have a hay dunker, too. I have to put in a special bucket way across the pasture and feed him by it so he doesn't put his hay in the regular bucket, which appalls his pasture mate. I'm always cleaning that danged bucket! And, if soaking hay prevented colic, the hay dunker shouldn't have colicked!

Again, thanks for pretty much confirming what I already suspected.

[Kelley Brough]

i can't remember how to start a new topic?  help! Kelley

--

Kelley Brough

KH Property

PO Box 251

Driftwood, TX 78619

512-569-0277

[Bobbie Brown]

Ya know Carla...vets really have a dangerous job, biting, kicking. shoving, rearing, etc.

Bobbie​

[Carla Richardson]

Yes, it is not an easy job that veterinarians have dealing with the clients, and sometimes the animals are difficult as well...

Carla Richardson

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ridecamp at Endurance.Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ridecamp+u...@endurance.net.