[Endurance Riding: News] 2014 WEG: Jeremy Olson and Wallace Hill Shade Lone USA Finishers

[Endurance.Net]

August 28 2014

In a WEG with difficult weather and footing, the USA was only able to finish one horse and rider in the Endurance Championship. Jeremy Olson and Wallace Hill Shade - the Team Alternate who was moved up to starting position the day before the race, due to Meg Sleeper's Syrocco Reveille being a little off during the trot out - finished 31st in 10:46:16.

US Equine Athletes Association released this statement: "Sadly we must report that the US Team was unable to deliver the performance it had worked so hard to achieve at the WEG 2014. Disappointment is an understatement. A full analysis will be forthcoming in a few days. In short the trail was slippery, challenging to say the least…

"Chances ridden by Heather Reynolds, Gold Dust Rising ridden by Jeremy Reynolds, and Hot Desert Knight ridden by Ellen Rapp Olson, were pulled for metabolic issues. All three are fine post ride, with no serious after effects. Kelsey Russell’s mount, My Wild Irish Gold was slightly off at the trot out after loop two and did not pass the vet gate. We thank our riders, horse owners, supporters and our Chef d’Quippe for their continued support and commitment to US Endurance."

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Posted By Endurance.Net to Endurance Riding: News at 8/28/2014 01:56:00 PM

[Truman Prevatt]

Albert Einstein once defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."  

That pretty much describes the US FEI endurance program.  In any high level sport when you have this many failures ( and at this level failure is not winning a medal) - our medal count over the last 10 years is not very high for a country

that invented the sport - drastic actions are taken.  Do your really think after the thumping Brazil took in the world cup this year that heads won't roll.   What we are doing is not working!  We pat ourselves on the back (doing the same thing over and over) 

just to get to the big day and we get smoked.  Tough course - isn't that what we have said we wanted to slow the race down?  But guess what the guys that want the fast tracks - win on the tough course! What does that say about our program or lack of a program?

I think it might be time for the USEF to clean house and reevaluate it's endurance program because it is not producing and at this level it is about producing winners.  

Some questions to ponder.

Is the AERC holding back our international endurance program.  Are the sports significantly different that maybe it is in the best interest of the USEF to go their own way?   Are our horses just not good enough?  They sure haven't been in the last 10 years. 

As the rest of the world passed us by in our own sport?  It seems like it.  

Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. 

Maybe it is time for a shake up.  

We will have another chance in two years.  Will be do any better?

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"An important scientific innovation rarely makes its way by gradually winning over and converting its opponents… What does happen is that its opponents gradually die out, and that the growing generation is familiarized with the ideas from the beginning."
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[Cindy K]

So what are "we' doing wrong Truman?

[Sara]

What I find interesting is the complete inability for anyone to be allowed to criticize the team. I watched it happen on facebook when someone expressed concern for the ridiculous 80% pull rate for team USA. Everyone jumped to silence them. People sit and critique their favorite football team every week and never throw a single ball themselves. Why is this sport different?  It is hard to see things clearly when you are immersed in it. Outside opinions should not only be taken into account but should be welcomed. Especially when the collective "we" are the ones helping to fund the trip.

Sara

On Aug 28, 2014 8:31 PM, "Cindy K" <king...@charter.net> wrote:

So what are "we' doing wrong Truman?

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[Teddy Lancaster]

I'll put in my $.02 worth...

I have been to several FEI International Endurance rides mostly as an observer.

From what I saw in the past:
1. The courses are racecourses, not "trails"...
2. The Vets don't talk to the riders, and few have ever seen any of them before.
3. The Vets make quick decisions..no 2nd chances..
4. The vetting is almost immediate upon arrival from the course. NO opportunity to let the horse rest until after vetting (if your horse makes it).
5. I bet the majority of the Vets are not riders.
6. I would not be surprised that some may have been "influenced" in their decisions.
7. This is NOT endurance as we normally see here in the USA. It is a RACE.
8. "To Finish is to Win" is NOT the motto. It's more like "Winners Take All"
9. There is rarely a chance to "come from  behind" so if you are not prepared to race the heck out of your horse (and perhaps go through a lot of horses to find one that will tolerate it), you may as well stay home.
10. FEI Endurance (again IMO) is NOT anything like what we have here in the USA: Friendly competition where people help each other and even hold hands at the finish line.  Our vets are mostly good guys with lots of experience, know many of the riders and horses and do their best to help ALL of us complete.

In 2010 in Kentucky I saw many inaccurate decisions made (again IMO).  One horse was a gaited horse that was home bred and from the other side of the planet. If you a have ever seen a gaited horse "trot out" at the finish, they tend to sway from side to side (only partly from fatigue). But this horse was SOUND!  It was eliminated for lameness.  I was disgusted with much of what I observed.  I have zero desire to watch another such fiasco.

I support our efforts in competing Internationally, but unless we start playing the game THEIR way, we will not get very far.  I do NOT think this reflects on AERC endurance.  I love the people: riders, vets, crew, staff.  We are all there for each other..it's NOT about winning at all costs. I only wish that some rider(s) would enter that go the course slowly and pace their horses and perhaps, just perhaps we'll finish enough just by perseverance instead of taking the "racing risk"...

I LOVE AERC Endurance just the way it has been and is! Not perfect, but a personal challenge....

--
Teddy Lancaster
Running Bear
3404 Carl Allred Rd.
Franklinville, NC 27248
800-533-2327

[Lynn White]

I'm not going to armchair quarterback.  I watched this race because I had a friend riding in it.  I'm not interested in doing FEI because it just looks like a very expensive hassle.  The vast majority of  riders spend a terrific amount of work, time and effort trying to  represent their country. It's a privilege and and an honor to ride in such a prestigious race.   It seems however only professional riders that do Endurance for a living manage to make the US team.  This is OK I suppose.  Americans are very competitive and  have set up a system so only the most dedicated can make the team.  If this means that one has to be a full time endurance rider, so be it.   The riders on the US team are very talented and work very hard. Give them credit for that.  In reality however, the pool of American riders willing to put in the investment and effort to make the US team is relatively small. There are some amazing horses right here in the US.   Just talking to former FEI riders and seeing some of the talent here in the NW, I believe there is a huge pool of riders and horses stateside that might put more effort in making the team if things were a little easier for them.  Who really has the time and money to try out for the US team?  Most people can hardly get a week off of work to drive 1000 miles for an FEI ride.  And managing an FEI is no picnic either!  I'd rather eat tripe every day for a month than manage an FEI ride.   I wonder if the riders in Europe have to jump through half as many hoops and travel nearly as much as the American riders have to.  If this is the case, the countries in Europe have a much bigger pool of horses and riders to make up a team.  Perhaps this is why Europe dominated the team podium in this year's event.  I'm just looking at the statistics of this stuff. It's nothing personal about this years riders or horses.  Unless FEI cleans up its act regarding drug rules, courses, and crewing there will be a big population or American talent that will refuse to participate.  I believe the probability of success is directly proportional to the population that is available for selection.  I'm just a numbers geek. Nothing personal. 

[Elyse]

Although 80% pull rate for the US team seems ridiculous, the overall pull rate for the ride was 78%. A winning time of 8ish hours over this kind of course is unreal to me.

 

The point about the amount of time and money required to compete at this level is very valid. There are very few people who can afford the investment to drive a thousand miles to an FEI ride or test events. Even if I had a horse that could win everything we entered, I still wouldn't jump through the hoops that these riders do to get to compete internationally.

 

-Elyse

[stephanie teeter]

The slowest time, last place, was 11:06 .  That time is more like the winning times of the past. It's a totally different sport now. I'm wondering what the world's perception of FEI Endurance will be after this. It just doesn't seem like a sustainable sport any more...  It's like having a jumping course where only 25% of the horses could even clear the jumps.  Just too difficult.

Steph

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[Sandra Adams]

I would submit that there are fewer American riders willing to treat their horses as commodities rather than partners than in some countries, which is why we declined twice to sell a horse of ours to someone from the Middle East. 

S. Adams
Deep Sands*Home of 
Salazar SF SE/AK/AF/H-ED
www.garyadamsbooks.com

[Dawn Carrie]

I don't know that "difficult" is the right word.  Frankly, I think it's more like a game of Russian roulette, but with bullets in all the chambers except one.  One has to be willing to truly play the game and hope that one gets the one *empty* chamber.  That is, if one wants to be in contention for a medal, one has to be willing to basically treat one's horse like a motorcycle, throttle full open, and just hope that one gets lucky and the horse makes it through the course alive and still sound.  The vast majority of competitors are going to get the bullets and get pulled.  A small percentage (22% in this event) are going to get the empty chamber and will make it to the finish line with live, sound horses.  And one of those will be the fastest.  Of course, only a few went "wide open" as evidenced by their ride times of 8 hours and something.  Those finishing toward the end obviously rode with a little more concern for their horses, knowing that they had no hope of competing with the "motorcycle riders."  Or they slowed down after they saw how fast the front runners were going and knew that they had no hope of catching them.  I really think it's way past time that AERC and international riding went their separate ways.  They are nothing alike.  If this event didn't highlight that in neon lights, I don't know what will.

 

JMHO,

Dawn Carrie

[Sandra Adams]

I don’t think it is the same sport as our own AERC endurance events. It reminds me of the long gallops between jump sequences in eventing. I rode training level eventing for a short time - not short enough - and wow, there is not much difference. There are no long or steep climbs, no need to get off and tail, Someone commented that over THERE, it is flat racing - here it is technical. 

S. Adams
Deep Sands*Home of 
Salazar SF SE/AK/AF/H-ED
www.garyadamsbooks.com

[Sandra Adams]

funny - motorcycle was the word that came to my mind, too

S. Adams
Deep Sands*Home of 
Salazar SF SE/AK/AF/H-ED
www.garyadamsbooks.com

[Lisa Belhage]

I have to admit that sometimes I get tired of the black and white grouping of FEI riders vs. AERC riders. There are plenty of riders, perhaps even the majority,  competing in FEI events, also at high levels who are not treating their horses as motorcycles, who invest a huge amount, both monetarily and emotionally in the health and well being of their horses.  Our only danish starter, Johanne Hvid, was pulled at the third vet because she didn't make the time cut.  She didn't make the time cut because she chose to hop off her horse and walk him through the knee deep mud rather than asking him to keep going at a higher pace.

 

I am sure you will find "motorcycle riders" in the ranks of the AERC as well.

 

-Lisa

[Dawn Carrie]

And you totally missed my point, Lisa.  I sait that if one wants to be in contention for a medal, one has to be willing to basically treat one's horse like a motorcycle. The key words are, "if one wants to be in contention."  At the point the Danish rider chose to put her horse first and use caution in traversing the mud, she was no longer going for a medal at the expense of her horse.  She no doubt knew that by doing what she did, she was sacrificing her chances of catching the "motorcycle rider types" who in all liklihood galloped through that very same mud.  And if she dismounted to traverse that mud, she quite likely rode more conservatively through other areas as well.  She was not riding for a medal...she riding for a completion.

 

Dawn

[Merri Melde]

I would bet that a majority of those riders are realistically riding for a completion and for the honor of representing their country, not for a achieving a medal.  After all, not many can say "I completed a World Endurance Championship" , especially after a finish percentage like this!


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www.TheEquestrianVagabond.com

[Ed & Wendy Hauser]

On 8/29/2014 9:17 AM, Lisa Belhage wrote:

Johanne Hvid, was pulled at the third vet because she didn't make the time cut. 

But if this had been an AERC ride, she would have made the time cut and been able to finish within the 24 hour time limit*.

While many of the type A folk who wish to race in this type of event, will risk all to have a chance of winning, the option to ride at a sensible pace under adverse conditions has been removed by the rules.  This is one of the things that separates FEI International competition from an ordinary AERC ride.

It is very much like the difference between an amateur softball league and the world series, or in MN an industrial ice hockey league and the Stanley Cup race.

Ed
*Assuming that the cutoff times are proportional to the total time, as required by AERC rules, at the required 14 kph pace riders only had 11 hrs 26 minutes of ride time.  I am to lazy to look up the required holds, but this is still much faster than an AERC ride.

--
Ed & Wendy Hauser
5729 175th Ave.
Becker, MN 55308

Ed: (406) 381-5527
Wendy: (406) 544-2926

[stephanie teeter]

I totally agree! And the vets are not there to 'help the rider through'. They have set strict and firm guidelines and at the least sign of metabolic or lameness that horse is out. None of the 'well take him back and check his shoes or go give him something to eat and we'll see how he looks in a while.. ' or any of that stuff.

Truman - I don't think it's fair to say the USA still isn't doing it right. I think it's become an impossible sport, at least if conducted under less than optimal conditions. In this WEG you'd have to look at the results and say that almost all of the countries aren't doing it right. Only 3 countries finished teams (3 horse/riders).

Steph

[Diane Trefethen]

On 8/29/2014 8:53 AM, stephanie teeter wrote:
Regarding Ed's comment, "But if this had been an AERC ride, she would have made
the time cut and been able to finish within the 24 hour time limit."
> I totally agree!
Clearly the FEI doesn't understand that their speed rules and cut off times
demand that riders abuse, not use or misuse, their horses. EVEN IF a horse can
compete at that level for a few races, that few races is insufficient to show
that the speed required is reasonable for horses. In other words, it is FEI that
is setting up horses to break down and die. Yes the Group VII countries are
rising to the bait but the bait is set by FEI, not any one of the country groups.

> Truman - I don't think it's fair to say the USA still isn't doing it right.
> I think it's become an impossible sport, at least if conducted under less
> than optimal conditions.

I disagree. Truman is right. However, our failure isn't in training or
performance. It is in participating at all. We are risking the well-being of our
horses and spending a great deal of money for the privilege. Einstein was right.
We are insane.

[Laney Humphrey]

Personally, I think it's time to agree that, even tho' the sport we
invented still exists in many parts of the world, the FEI level sport
is something different. It may have grown out of "our" sport, but
just like lots of kids, has grown into something it's parents have
trouble recognizing as their progeny. Continuing the parent/kid
metaphor, parents at some point, have to wave good-by to their kids
and send them out into the world to do their own thing. I think the
time has come for AERC to do the same for FEI level flat track
distance racing.

I'm not saying that no American should participate but that the
sponsoring/funding organization should be completely separate from
AERC. Those of us who love "our" sport because it demands the best of
both rider and horse with the overall goal of maintaining the welfare
of the horse, can look on as either proud parents of this child that
has taken such a different path, or turn our backs on it, as we each
choose.
Laney Humphrey

[Truman Prevatt]

Getting our butts kicked every time we show up to a WEC. 

On Aug 28, 2014, at 8:31 PM, Cindy K <king...@charter.net> wrote:

So what are "we' doing wrong Truman?

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“He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."  Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

[Truman Prevatt]

A couple of the LBL rides in the mid 2000's being in the rainy season were basically nothing but deep slick clay mud.  The way you ride it is SLOW DOWN! I actually got top 10 and first HW on one.  It's not that hard - all it takes is common sense.  I guess our US team hasn't figured that out.  I don''t remember the competitions rates being much different that most AERC rides.  Bottom line it can be done without sacrificing your horse.  However, that doesn't seem to be the case at the FEI level.  The truly sad thing is US riders should know how to ride difficult conditions.  We (the US) have pushed for more difficult courses - we got it and we sucked.  So there are problems with FEI in general and our USEF endurance program has been in shambles for several years. We should have shined since we have been whining about wanted more difficult courses - we got it we blew it. 

When a team goes to represent the US in a world championship be it soccer or endurance I want to see our team do their best and hopefully win.  Our World Cup team did us proud but our endurance team sure didn't.  

There are multiple problem, however, every year since about 2000 we haven't bothered to show up in the WEC.  

Truman

--
“The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world” - Max Born 

[Ed & Wendy Hauser]

On 8/29/2014 7:24 PM, Truman Prevatt wrote:

The way you ride it is SLOW DOWN! I actually got top 10 and first HW on one.  It's not that hard - all it takes is common sense.  I guess our US team hasn't figured that out.  I don''t remember the competitions rates being much different that most AERC rides

I agree, but since the FEI rule for this ride required a maximum ride time of 11 hrs 26 minutes*, anyone that slowed down enough to ensure their completion would have been eliminated over time. 

My take away is that International FEI championship competition is not the same as AERC Endurance Rides.  It should be considered a separate sport totally divorced from AERC Endurance.

Ed
*Generously increased from 10 hrs 40 minutes because of the difficult trail conditions.  To further put this into perspective, there were 4 holds for a total of 180 minutes (3 hr), if this had been an AERC ride, the maximum ride time would have been 21 hours. 

[stephanie teeter]

How would you envision accomplishing that?  Different rules? Different name? Both sports are technically a race... the main difference is how strongly people want to win. 

Steph

[Sandra Adams]

Whenever I see the finishing/winning times at Tevis, I am blown away both by the capability of our equine partners and also the toughness of those riders, who ALSO manage to take care of the horses. 24 hours to complete. Some win in 11 hours. Most FINISH in about what, 14-18 hours? Then I look at this event in Normandy - how ironic, no? - and see the times, the time limits and the results, I just shake my head. I see Steph’s points - they are both considered a race. Then again, a marathon is as much as race as 100m hurdles and both are run consistent with the goal, and included in the goal is at least a modicum of attention to safety. It just seems that the upper echelons people, of endurance riding/racing, whatever, at some point  seem to forget a healthy sense of safety, certainly for the horse. The completion levels and certainly WINNING levels of any sport are diminished as the challenge grows, and as fewer are able to compete at a certain level, but wow - completion rates as low as these at LEAST deserve a look. Personally, I don’t consider what they do the same sport as AERC endurance, simply because the parameters and rules are so very different. What WE call football here is not what football is in Europe or south America. Here, we call what THEY call football - soccer. So - in the end, Steph is correct. The MAIN - but not ONLY - difference is how bad people want to win, and for me and those I ride with, we don’t want to win or even FINISH at the expense of the welfare and future of our equine partners. 

S. Adams
Deep Sands*Home of 
Salazar SF SE/AK/AF/H-ED
www.garyadamsbooks.com

[Kathy Mayeda]

You know, AERC is not FEI, FEI is not AERC.   The way it is, it still makes sense that U.S. FEI riders need AERC to get ride for US, but that does not mandate that AERC needs to become a FEI puppet.  Nor do I perceive that AERC has become an FEI puppet.   AERC does not need FEI to exist.  I don't see a reason for "divorce" because that only punishes the few riders that want to go the distance to ride FEI.  I think that the glaring failures of our country to be competitive is what is making us all cranky about FEI.  If we were winning, how much you want to bet most of this griping wouldn't exist on this forum.

It is a shame that US can't compete against the sheikhs, but that's the reality now.  We can remain happy playing in our own sand box or be mad about not being able to compete on the World stage against a UAE machined sport.  I choose to remain happy.  Let the sheikhs play in their own sandbox.  

Maybe it's time to make a different sport international organization, and maybe call it "Ultra-Endurance" or something that chooses courses of Tevis and Quilty caliber.

K.

[Ed & Wendy Hauser]

On 8/30/2014 10:52 AM, stephanie teeter wrote:

How would you envision accomplishing that?  Different rules? Different name?

If I organize a local amateur ice hockey league in MN the rules are generally the same as the National Hockey League, but my league has zero connection with the NHL.  In addition, I may, for instance, DQ for life any player starting a fight, and I may protect my players health by not allowing checking.  I do not expect, nor does anyone else expect, that there should be any institutional connection between the two leagues.

That is what I mean when I say the AERC should divorce itself.

Some have said that if and when bad things happen in FEI International Endurance competition, nobody would be able to understand under any circumstances that there is a definite difference between AERC Endurance competition and FEI International Endurance competition.  I submit that in other sports people do realize that Local amateur competition is different from national professional competition which is different from international competition.

ED

[Truman Prevatt]

On Aug 30, 2014, at 1:49 PM, Kathy Mayeda <klma...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You know, AERC is not FEI, FEI is not AERC. The way it is, it still makes sense that U.S. FEI riders need AERC to get ride for US, but that does not mandate that AERC needs to become a FEI puppet. Nor do I perceive that AERC has become an FEI puppet. AERC does not need FEI to exist. I don't see a reason for "divorce" because that only punishes the few riders that want to go the distance to ride FEI. I think that the glaring failures of our country to be competitive is what is making us all cranky about FEI. If we were winning, how much you want to bet most of this griping wouldn't exist on this forum.
>
> It is a shame that US can't compete against the sheikhs, but that's the reality now.

It wasn't the Sheikhs that beat the US team. It was the US team could not finish enough horses to be considered for a team medal - which has been a normal state of affairs over the past few WEC's.


--
"It is hard to fight an enemy who has outpost in your head." - Sally Kempton

[Truman Prevatt]

Just about every sport has various slightly different rules at different age levels.  For example in female soccer at the up to high school levels (and even in high school when I was referring soccer which was a long time ago so maybe it has changed)

could cross their arms over their breast and would not be penalized for handing the ball for their own safety.  That exception disappeared in college.  However, with that minor difference - the game was the same.  Pop Warner football is vastly different 

than the NFL but it is still football.  Pop Warner separated kids by their weight for the safety of the kids.

No one is going to connect neighborhood league soccer play with potential abuses (like bitting an opponent ) at the international level or Pop Warner football with the abuses in the NFL, wife beating, drugs, etc.  The problem the AERC has is it cannot cut the cord with the FEI sport.  We still maintain our relationship with the USEF on endurance.  We still have a committee that is dedicated to international racing.  Bottom line if you told an adversary - probably a animal welfare group - that we (AERC) had nothing to do with FEI racing - the answer as well it should be is sure, right - then why do you have so many ties.  

The AERC can't have it both ways.  If we are going to support the USEF in their endurance program then we become part of the problem in FEI racing.  We cease to be part of the solution and we will be colored with the same brush as the FEI and rightly so.  

Truman

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“The effort to understand the universe is one of the very few things that lifts human life a little above the level of farce, and gives it some of the grace of tragedy.” Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate, Physics 

[Kathy Mayeda]

Truman, you can't ignore the fact that UAE has poured tons of money into the sport, buying the best horses from other countries with full time professionals to manage them for royalty or jockies to ride.  You can't ignore that most of the winners over the past decade were funded somewhere by UAE money.  You can't ignore the fact that the FEI president is a wife of a Dubai sheikh.  You can't ignore the fact that their terrain favors faster riding, and a lot of our trails do not.  This all skews the field to their favor.  

It is extremely difficult for US to compete without those deep pocket resources.  We have no billionaires funding the sport on our side of the pond.  We have excellent, dedicated riders, but they do their own training, don't have dedicated veterinary staff and staff in general.  This makes it difficult for us to compete.

K.

[Sara]

I know very little about international competition. Does our team go over seas at all to campaign prior to WEG?  If not I think that is a major hindering factor. Eventing campaigns overseas and while the US doesn't win we get international miles and one selection factor is how the horse/rider did while overseas. I think it is foolish to think we can do well over there not riding until the big day.

Sara

[Truman Prevatt]

On Aug 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Kathy Mayeda <klma...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> It is extremely difficult for US to compete without those deep pocket resources. We have no billionaires funding the sport on our side of the pond. We have excellent, dedicated riders, but they do their own training, don't have dedicated veterinary staff and staff in general. This makes it difficult for us to compete.
>
> K.
>
>

The bottom line is if you want to run with the big dogs you have to get down off the porch. Sports at this level is about one thing - performance. Performance is measured by winning. We are not doing that either at the individual or team level. It is a very poor return on an investment to keep going back again and again to just be an "also run."

Time for the USEF to make a major overhaul of its endurance program. It is also time for the AERC to figure out who it wants to be when it grows up.



--
"I cannot call to mind a single instance where I have ever been irreverent, except toward the things which were sacred to other people." - Mark Twain

[Kathy Mayeda]

I think AERC knows what they want to be when "they grow up."   They are an organization of mostly non-horse-professionals who's motto is "To Finish is To Win"   not "Let's win at all costs."

Without AERC, though, our minority of the riders who do ride FEI will have no where to train.  Yes, USEF will have to look hard at the endurance program.  I think that AERC International might have to spin off because as far as I can see, they aren't doing anything to promote international riding or providing any benefits to the general AERC membership, and are pretty self serving.  But that is my take from a decade ago and I'm not even a current AERC member, so I may be all wet about that.  

K.

[Lynn White]

Hey, if I had to ride a 100-miler on a flat boring sand course I think I'd want to be done with it in 8.5 hours just so I wouldn't die of boredom. Seriously, AERC is the world leader in XP's, multi-days,  and  technical courses.  AERC Canadians and Americans generally get more years, enjoyment and miles out of their horses than any other endurance organization in the world.  Instead of lamenting how the Sheikhs control FEI, ride, probably cheat,  and  buy up the best horses ad nauseum, we should be tooting our horns at the huge variety of people and horses that compete on AERC venues.   Many people don't understand our values.  Too bad for them. 

[Kathy Mayeda]

Hi Sara, there are AERC rides that are co-sanctioned as FEI rides, so no, they don't have to go overseas. 

[Kathy Mayeda]

Lynn, where's the LIKE button?  I may be appear to be bitchin' about the sheikhs, but really I'd just as soon leave them to play with themselves!  Who needs them.  Give me a good old mid-pack XP ride and I'm happy as a clam and enjoying the scenery.

K.

[Sara]

Its not that they "have" to go overseas. Its that they "should". If you want to perform well overseas you should campaign over there.  Get to know the system, the venues, the crowds. It will all be different.  Eventers campaign overseas and it plays a big role in their selection for the US team. If they are awesome halt home but bomb overseas they dont get selected for the team. Its an important step we are seriously lacking. Why? Ill guess its money. It takes a lot of money to go overseas to spend a summer campaigning. But this is elite/professional level. Do what it takes or dont go.

Sara

[Sara]

Apparently the eventing world is asking similar questions after a cross country course where not a single horse came in on time. Many technical questions on course and people are questioning why the chosen time with that many questions. Seems as though the WEG is full of thmeselves this year and are losing a lot of fan support.

Sara

[Sandra Adams]

This is pretty pathetic if you ask me. Years ago when I was younger and healed faster, I rode hunters and a few jumpers. Different sports, even though they BOTH jump fences lol! The courses were set up to challenge the horse and rider, not to taunt them with likely failure. Making a course more HAZARDOUS did not make for more spectatorship, nor did it increase the quality of the participants. Frankly, it brought in more of what we called the “loose caboose” riders. Something amiss in the engine room. I don’t think eventing ever did make a course alteration to accommodate more excellent riders without endangering their mounts. Back then, a rider did not need nor have a string of horses, they had one mount and perhaps a back up mount if they were well off enough. It seems some things never change. If competition rates are excessively low, and no one asks why, and even ONE HORSE DIES - doesn’t it at least bear a good thorough look??

S. Adams
Deep Sands*Home of 
Salazar SF SE/AK/AF/H-ED
www.garyadamsbooks.com

On Aug 31, 2014, at 4:57 AM, Sara <footd...@gmail.com> wrote:

Apparently the eventing world is asking similar questions after a cross country course where not a single horse came in on time. Many technical questions on course and people are questioning why the chosen time with that many questions. Seems as though the WEG is full of thmeselves this year and are losing a lot of fan support.

Sara

On Aug 30, 2014 6:25 PM, "Sara" <footd...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Lynn White]

If eventing isn't dangerous enough for the horses, riders die along with them.  FEI had some jumps "engineered" so that they were not so stout and the ass-over-teakettle falls were mitigated.  It's still dangerous though.  Me, I can't wait to follow the US vaulting team.  I love watching all those young people working together to create a beautiful performance.  Of course if the horse is great all the attention goes to the vaulters, which is the objective.  

[Sandra Adams]

agree with Kathy on this. AERC-I also needs to grow up - but then, if growing up means winning in a sport where the horses are not put first - that is not winning to me - but that is just me

S. Adams
Deep Sands*Home of 
Salazar SF SE/AK/AF/H-ED
www.garyadamsbooks.com

[Sandra Adams]

for sure Lynn - just wondering, how many middle astern riders do we see at OUR AERC rides, not counting Tevis? Well, never mind - COUNT Tevis!

S. Adams
Deep Sands*Home of 
Salazar SF SE/AK/AF/H-ED
www.garyadamsbooks.com

[Sandra Adams]

the jumps don’t give as they would in grand prix or hunters. You hit one, down you go. Badly. 

S. Adams
Deep Sands*Home of 
Salazar SF SE/AK/AF/H-ED
www.garyadamsbooks.com

[Lynn White]

Personally, I wouldn't want some of the ME riders at big AERC events like Tevis.  They'd just require lots of security which translates to some of the best spaces at the vetting areas.  I would imagine ME and high profile riders going to low key events so nobody would know they were even there.  Anonymity can be very safe at times. I keep waiting for Viggo Mortensen to show up...I suppose he just doesn't have a horse fit enough yet.  Once I saw this guy that looked like him, but alas, it wasn't Viggo.  

[Truman Prevatt]

Yep, I was observing an Olympic trial in '88 I think it was near Ocala Florida.  I had stayed at this stable since it was right on the Ocala NF and you could ride out into the forest from there.  We had walked our horses around the course.  Amazing - these guys are 

crazy;-)!   At the trials, a horse caught his lead front hoof on the top of a jump, flipped and came down on his back.  The rider cushioned his fall.  The horse got up and trotted off - the rider never moved broken in half.   

Truman

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[Laney Humphrey]

A number of years ago, some Sheiks tried to "sponsor" an American
endurance ride. They were going to offer huge cash prizes. There was
such a furor they quietly folded their tents and crept away (sorry,
couldn't resist that!)
Laney

[stephanie teeter]

Just to set the record straight - Shk Mansour (Abu Dhabi) did sponsor two rides one year - the Tevis, and Abu Dhabi Arabian Nights (at our place in Oreana). At our ride they awarded a horse trailer to first place 100 miler (Karen Croon and Rokket) and a saddle to first place 50 miler .They also supported the rides financially. They initially planned on big trophy things for awards, but we convinced them that riders would better appreciate something they could use!

The only furor I recall was that at Tevis some folks complained that the logo on the caps and bags had the American flag backward. (wind was blowing the wrong way or something...). I didn't hear any big fuss otherwise. There were some problems with the staff from UAE getting visas, and there was some royalty but no heads of state which is where the security issues arise. It was fun - riders from all over. The local ranchers joined us for the pre-ride dinner.

There were some UAE riders at Tevis too, but again I don't recall it being a big deal as there were no heads of state (security demands).

Steph

[Laney Humphrey]

Thanks, Steph! Did they also sponsor a ride on the east coast? Any
idea why there hasn't been continued Middle Eastern participation in
our rides?
Laney

[stephanie teeter]

I don't know about east coast ride sponsorships. I think it's basically easier (closer, less expensive and more friendly) for Middle East folks to sponsor and compete in Europe.

Steph

[leonard-liesens]

Hi,

I was there as Chef d'Equipe for Norway. Our 4 horses vetted out, 3 for metablic, 1 for lameness. The vetting was way stricter than usual, as a result of all what happened the last year and the fuss about these abuses. The FEI didn't want to have any dead horse. So each time there were little issues about metabolic state, they pulled and sent to the clinic. Many have been treated with fluids (that's when they are marked as 'ME-TR' on the result sheets.

I'm writing a feature about this WEG, to be posted on endurance-belgium.com website, hopefully tomorrow. Stay tuned :-)

Leonard, Belgium

[Darcy]

Leonard,

Hopefully we will all be able to read the article you are going to have published (in English).  I am very interested in your perspective being on that side of the fence so to speak.

D'Arcy

Sent from my iPad

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[Merri Melde]

wasn't someone from the UAE also a sponsor Tevis another year, about 2 years ago?

--
www.endurance.net/merri
www.TheEquestrianVagabond.com

[Diane Trefethen]

On 9/2/2014 4:28 AM, Darcy wrote:
> Leonard,

> I am very interested in your perspective being on that
> side of the fence so to speak.
> D'Arcy
>

Hi D'Arcy,
I think you meant, "On that side of the pond."
<kind>