Board

[Bruce Weary]

  Well, Kat, your post recommending a mass exodus on behalf of members (if they don't like how the UAE abuse situation is being handled) contained no questions, and it was difficult to take your thoughts seriously, as they seemed merely provocative, at best.. Joe was musing about possibly giving up his lifetime membership over it (really Joe? You and your horse are in the HOF and you would leave our ranks over this?) and Truman, was yet again spouting off on how he thinks the Board is ever silent and inept on all things AERC, while growing moss on his north side. I rarely am snide, but there is no rule against returning it in response to "discussions," as you call them like these.     Bruce Weary

[Joe Long]

Resigning my lifetime membership is not something that I take lightly.  I've made no decision at this time.  I AM considering it, though, depending on what direction the AERC chooses to go.  If it happens it will be a very painful action to take.  Yes, this is that important.  Remember that I believe this is an existential threat not only to the AERC but to endurance riding itself.  I really, really hope I'm wrong about that -- but can we afford to take the chance?

Bruce Weary

March 1, 2015 at 9:36 AM

  Well, Kat, your post recommending a mass exodus on behalf of members (if they don't like how the UAE abuse situation is being handled) contained no questions, and it was difficult to take your thoughts seriously, as they seemed merely provocative, at best.. Joe was musing about possibly giving up his lifetime membership over it (really Joe? You and your horse are in the HOF and you would leave our ranks over this?) and Truman, was yet again spouting off on how he thinks the Board is ever silent and inept on all things AERC, while growing moss on his north side. I rarely am snide, but there is no rule against returning it in response to "discussions," as you call them like these.     Bruce Weary

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[Bruce Weary]

Joe, my best advice to you is to stay put. Please don't follow Kat's suggestion that if you don't agree on an issue or policy the best practice is to leave the organization until things are more in line with your preference. That would lead to an awful lot of coming and going. Maybe Kat could return to membership, if she hasn't already, and show support, rather than disdain for this great organization. We aren't the ones killing the horses. I wrote a scathing email to the Sheik. Have you? This issue may be with us for a while, but AERC's main purpose is promoting the sport here in the US. That means working on trails, member attraction and retention, sanctioning rides, educating our riders and all the things that go with promoting a sport. We aren't asleep at the wheel, nor do we, as a small private club, have the power to legislate or force large international organizations to knuckle under to our demands. That is the job of the federations, and we have made our position and disdain clear multiple times in the press, with the Motion passed last August, and with ongoing communications globally with the other federations, supporting consensus on rejecting the evils ways of some stables in Group VII. Michael Campbell has probably been our busiest President in recent times, in large part due to the demands of dealing with this issue. You would be proud to know the level of involvement of AERC to date, and that it will continue. We will get more traction on this when we meet in Reno, face to face. We should remember that there is a lot of other business to attend as well. Don't leave, Joe. Support the same constituents that put you in the HOF.           Bruce Weary

[Sandra Adams]

I agree with Bruce here. Being a quitter rarely solves anything. That said, continuing to speak up and scream when needed at the perps at the very least makes what they are doing a more public matter. Also, when people stop selling them OUR horses, that is a step in the right direction. I doubt that we can “save” all of the horses abused and killed by those cretins - just as we cannot save them all here who are abused and neglected - but we should never stop trying just because the end game may not be 100%. Not trying because you don’t feel we can save them all is also quitting. We also need to put our money where our mouths are - rescue a horse when you can; only use good, reputable trainers; don’t sell horses to ANYONE who will go or HAS GONE to the ME to compete…. there are things we can do - just the diff between words and actions. In comparison, there are FEW horse organizations that actually have a true interest in horse welfare. Sorry to say that AHA continues to allow abuse and some of the most idiotic things that trainers do to show their Arabians - and nothing is done, and not much is actually SAID. I for one want to give AERC the chance to continue to take steps to eliminate the very EXISTENCE of abuse in our sport - which BTW is NOT what they do in the ME. Again, we are not quitters. Are YOU?

S. Adams
Deep Sands*Home of 
Salazar SF SE/AK/AF/H-ED
www.garyadamsbooks.com

[Diane Trefethen]

There are at least three reasons that calling someone Quitter is
counterproductive. First and most obviously, name-calling usually results in
creating ill-will and little else. Second, it draws a line in the sand, dividing
the group into US vs THEM. Third, like it or not, when someone wants to see a
problem resolved but has reached the point where s/he feels there is no hope,
continued efforts are just a waste of time. And where is that point? Well, that
is for each of us to decide. Each of us has our own limits.

Diane Trefethen
AERC #2691
West Region

[ra...@sisuwest.us]

On 3/1/2015 1:35 PM, Bruce Weary wrote:

but AERC's main purpose is promoting the sport here in the US. That means working on trails, member attraction and retention, sanctioning rides, educating our riders and all the things that go with promoting a sport. We aren't asleep at the wheel, nor do we, as a small private club, have the power to legislate or force large international organizations to knuckle under to our demands. That is the job of the federations,

As  I read Bruce's recent comments, he gives very persuasive arguments for the AERC to divorce itself from the USEF.  He admits that our charter is to sanction Distance rides in the USA, not the rest of the world and that we do not have particular influence over what goes on with the USEF, let alone region VII.

Ed

--
Ed & Wendy Hauser
5729 175th Ave.
Becker, MN 55308

Ed: (406) 381-5527
Wendy: (406) 544-2926

[Joe Long]

Thanks for your response.  This is not an action that I would take lightly, or without seeking the advice of others.  It's under consideration but not imminent at this time.

Bruce Weary

March 1, 2015 at 12:35 PM

Joe, my best advice to you is to stay put. Please don't follow Kat's suggestion that if you don't agree on an issue or policy the best practice is to leave the organization until things are more in line with your preference. That would lead to an awful lot of coming and going. Maybe Kat could return to membership, if she hasn't already, and show support, rather than disdain for this great organization. We aren't the ones killing the horses. I wrote a scathing email to the Sheik. Have you? This issue may be with us for a while, but AERC's main purpose is promoting the sport here in the US. That means working on trails, member attraction and retention, sanctioning rides, educating our riders and all the things that go with promoting a sport. We aren't asleep at the wheel, nor do we, as a small private club, have the power to legislate or force large international organizations to knuckle under to our demands. That is the job of the federations, and we have made our position and disdain clear multiple times in the press, with the Motion passed last August, and with ongoing communications globally with the other federations, supporting consensus on rejecting the evils ways of some stables in Group VII. Michael Campbell has probably been our busiest President in recent times, in large part due to the demands of dealing with this issue. You would be proud to know the level of involvement of AERC to date, and that it will continue. We will get more traction on this when we meet in Reno, face to face. We should remember that there is a lot of other business to attend as well. Don't leave, Joe. Support the same constituents that put you in the HOF.           Bruce Weary

--
Joe Long  aka ChipRider
jl...@chiprider.com
 

[Joe Long]

ra...@sisuwest.us

March 1, 2015 at 5:03 PM

As  I read Bruce's recent comments, he gives very persuasive arguments for the AERC to divorce itself from the USEF.  He admits that our charter is to sanction Distance rides in the USA, not the rest of the world and that we do not have particular influence over what goes on with the USEF, let alone region VII.

When the AERC was created, it was done to support endurance riding in the U.S. (and Canada).  Of course, there were no FEI endurance rides back then.  When the first FEI ride was held in the U.S. in Virginia, I had the honor of being chosen for the U.S. team.  At the final cut I scratched because Khalil was questionable and we took an alternate who was ready to go (and finished as I recall).  I became part of the crew.  I was very enthusiastic about international riding going into that event.

I was put off by the cutthroat nature of the competition, though.  Just one example:  the wife of one of the European riders was waiting at the road crossing near the finish, after dark, to give him a jacket.  It was getting cold.   But her ride was leaving and he hadn't arrived yet.  We offered to take the jacket and give it to him, but she reminded us that was against the rules!  We suggested that she just hang it on a fence post and we'd tell him where it was, but she was afraid to even do that.  A far cry from endurance AERC style.

Over the years I became more disenchanted with FEI, and with co-sponsored rides, to the point where I vowed to never do another one.  I felt some time ago that it would be better all around if AERC-I was separated from AERC, where they could do their thing and we could do ours.  AERC rides and FEI rides have become two different worlds.  The need to do this split, in my opinion, has now become imperative, there is no longer really a reasonable choice to not do it.

The people who compete internationally have AERC-I and USEF, they do not need AERC to have their sport and their opportunities.  The AERC does not need AERC-I or USEF.  If we cannot keep the USEF drug testing there are other ways to do that.  We must not let the desire of the international riders to have joint sanctioning to support their rides hold us in a bad marriage.

--

Joe Long  aka ChipRider
jl...@chiprider.com

A++ G+ PKR+ PEG+ B++ M+ 

[Joe Long]

Correction:  the first FEI ride I participated in was the first in Virginia but not the first in the U.S.  That was the Swanton Pacific in California.

My apologies for any confusion.

Joe Long

March 1, 2015 at 6:10 PM

When the AERC was created, it was done to support endurance riding in the U.S. (and Canada).  Of course, there were no FEI endurance rides back then.  When the first FEI ride was held in the U.S. in Virginia, I had the honor of being chosen for the U.S. team.  At the final cut I scratched because Khalil was questionable and we took an alternate who was ready to go (and finished as I recall).  I became part of the crew.  I was very enthusiastic about international riding going into that event.

I was put off by the cutthroat nature of the competition, though.  Just one example:  the wife of one of the European riders was waiting at the road crossing near the finish, after dark, to give him a jacket.  It was getting cold.   But her ride was leaving and he hadn't arrived yet.  We offered to take the jacket and give it to him, but she reminded us that was against the rules!  We suggested that she just hang it on a fence post and we'd tell him where it was, but she was afraid to even do that.  A far cry from endurance AERC style.

Over the years I became more disenchanted with FEI, and with co-sponsored rides, to the point where I vowed to never do another one.  I felt some time ago that it would be better all around if AERC-I was separated from AERC, where they could do their thing and we could do ours.  AERC rides and FEI rides have become two different worlds.  The need to do this split, in my opinion, has now become imperative, there is no longer really a reasonable choice to not do it.

The people who compete internationally have AERC-I and USEF, they do not need AERC to have their sport and their opportunities.  The AERC does not need AERC-I or USEF.  If we cannot keep the USEF drug testing there are other ways to do that.  We must not let the desire of the international riders to have joint sanctioning to support their rides hold us in a bad marriage.

[Truman Prevatt]

Bruce while I don't really give a rats behind what you thing of me or say about me.  I've know Joe a long time and I doubt if does either.  However, your argumentum ad hominem gets pretty old and is pretty lame.  It seems when you can not address and issue with logic - you attack the person for what ever reason.  In reality it adds no substance to any debate.   There are certain professions that make a living by argumentum ad hominem - politician comes to mind such a great and noble profession that it is. 

So if you want to discuss facts - that's fine.  Am I disappointed at the AERC BOD for it milk toast response last year, it's total public silence this time and it total lack of transparency.  You bet I am and it is the responsibility of every member to make their views know.  I know a lot of people on the board and they are good people but as a collective as a corporate board - the board leaves something desired.  

As a start at better transparency I call for the AERC BOD to live stream all board meeting (both in March and August).  When we did that last year (BCHA) it went over very well with the members and a lot of people tuned in. It is time for the AERC BOD to address transparency and it long over due - about a year - for them to address the abuses and doping in FEI endurance. 

Truman

--
"Prejudice is a great time saver. You can form opinions without having to get the facts."  E. B. White

On Mar 1, 2015, at 11:36 AM, Bruce Weary <weary...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Well, Kat, your post recommending a mass exodus on behalf of members (if they don't like how the UAE abuse situation is being handled) contained no questions, and it was difficult to take your thoughts seriously, as they seemed merely provocative, at best.. Joe was musing about possibly giving up his lifetime membership over it (really Joe? You and your horse are in the HOF and you would leave our ranks over this?) and Truman, was yet again spouting off on how he thinks the Board is ever silent and inept on all things AERC, while growing moss on his north side. I rarely am snide, but there is no rule against returning it in response to "discussions," as you call them like these.     Bruce Weary

[Joe Long]

Truman, chill.  While I agree with you that lack of transparency has been a problem with our Board for a long time now, and I also agree that the AERC response to this crisis has been tepid, I don't question the motives of Bruce or most of the Board members.  I believe that both Bruce and most of the Directors have the best interests of the AERC at heart.  And it is a difficult and often thankless job.

Truman Prevatt

March 1, 2015 at 8:03 PM

Bruce while I don't really give a rats behind what you thing of me or say about me.  I've know Joe a long time and I doubt if does either.  However, your argumentum ad hominem gets pretty old and is pretty lame.  It seems when you can not address and issue with logic - you attack the person for what ever reason.  In reality it adds no substance to any debate.   There are certain professions that make a living by argumentum ad hominem - politician comes to mind such a great and noble profession that it is. 

So if you want to discuss facts - that's fine.  Am I disappointed at the AERC BOD for it milk toast response last year, it's total public silence this time and it total lack of transparency.  You bet I am and it is the responsibility of every member to make their views know.  I know a lot of people on the board and they are good people but as a collective as a corporate board - the board leaves something desired.  

As a start at better transparency I call for the AERC BOD to live stream all board meeting (both in March and August).  When we did that last year (BCHA) it went over very well with the members and a lot of people tuned in. It is time for the AERC BOD to address transparency and it long over due - about a year - for them to address the abuses and doping in FEI endurance. 

Truman

--
"Prejudice is a great time saver. You can form opinions without having to get the facts."  E. B. White

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Bruce Weary

March 1, 2015 at 9:36 AM

[Bruce Weary]

Truman, in your quest for greater understanding of the Board and its actions on these and other issues, what exactly did your

Regional Directors share with you on these subjects when you went to the trouble of calling them and conveying your questions?

So that we might not waste time covering the same ground twice, please be specific regarding the questions you asked and how they were answered.   Thank you.   Bruce Weary

[Truman Prevatt]

Joe, I am chilled - at least as chilled as I ever get. I will try to keep this as non-sartistic as possible.  However, the lack of transparency of the AERC BOD is stunning.  The lack of a response from an organization which states in article 2.0.1 of its bylaws that one of the reasons for the AERC is to promote and encourage “The care of endurance horses and prevention of cruelty to animals” is deafening.  

On the transparency part - I don’t see it getting any better. No director is going to answer 800 phone calls.  To imply that is the primary method of communication from the BOD to the members is to say the least a copout.  The AERC has a problem with transparency and I don’t detect them doing anything to address it.  Steph Teeter or any other board member “leaking” proposals is not an answer.  

I’ve been a member since 1990 +/- a year - to lazy to look it up.  The AERC has done some fine things and up to now I have been proud about the stand the AERC has taken. Up till now because to be honest I’m not very proud of how it has responded over the past year to the growing problem of doping and abuse.  It’s a copout to say “it is just FEI Region 7.  By its inaction and official silence the AERC has become an enabler.  It’s time for the AERC to step up to the plate. The Swiss have, the British have - where is the AERC.  

I agree that the motives of most of the board members that have ever served for the AERC are good and noble and most directors have the best interest of the AERC at heart.  I’ve sit on enough boards and steering committees to know it is not always an easy task. I have no problem with any of them individually.  However, it sometimes seems that taken as a political entity - all boards of directors are political entities - the AERC board does not perform as well as one would hope.  

Truman

__
"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner."
H. L. Mencken

[Bruce Weary]

Truman--

Your response sounds like you are going the long way around to avoid admitting you haven't bothered to even place a call to your Regional Directors to find out what we have been working on. You will find great transparency, if and when you do. We can deliver the newspaper to your doorstep. We shouldn't have to open it and read it to you. Meet us halfway?       Bruce Weary

[Joe Long]

Truman Prevatt

March 2, 2015 at 8:40 AM

I agree that the motives of most of the board members that have ever served for the AERC are good and noble and most directors have the best interest of the AERC at heart.  I’ve sit on enough boards and steering committees to know it is not always an easy task. I have no problem with any of them individually.  However, it sometimes seems that taken as a political entity - all boards of directors are political entities - the AERC board does not perform as well as one would hope. 

Well, one reason for that IMO is that there have been a few Board members who are very skillful in manipulating people to get their way, and the way they get is often their own interest rather than that of the AERC.  Another is the unwieldy size of the Board.  Since the will isn't there to reduce the number of Directors to a workable size, I don't know what can be done about those problems.  The best we as members can do is keep the pressure on over important issues such as this current one.

--
Joe Long  aka ChipRider
jl...@chiprider.com

A++ G+ PKR+ PEG+ B+ M+

[Joe Long]

This time I'm going to go to bat for Truman.  He's right, "call your Directors" is not a substitute for genuine transparency.  If only 10% of the members called their Directors each month you'd be overwhelmed with calls.  Some things that would actually help transparency are to publish upcoming pending issues regularly in EN and the mail lists (in a timely manner), to publish thorough minutes of conference calls including how individual Board members voted, and to open the Board mail list for members to read.

Bruce Weary

March 2, 2015 at 8:58 AM

Truman--

Your response sounds like you are going the long way around to avoid admitting you haven't bothered to even place a call to your Regional Directors to find out what we have been working on. You will find great transparency, if and when you do. We can deliver the newspaper to your doorstep. We shouldn't have to open it and read it to you. Meet us halfway?       Bruce Weary

[Ginger Bill]

I do not want Truman hanging out there by himself. The one word that comes to mind is CORRUPTION. Why should our sport be any different? Just my opinion is that AERC will falter as most of our members are made of disenchanted trail trial and horse show individuals. As members become more and more upset with the underhanded goings of AERC, the organization will have nowhere to go but downhill and there can be no coming back. Fortunately, somewhere down the road little endurance rides will spring up and there will be a new, clean start for our sport. Again, just my opinion. 


Ginger Bill
AERC #8748

 

---

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 08:58:32 -0700
Subject: Re: [RC] Board
From: weary...@gmail.com
To: ride...@endurance.net

[Bruce Weary]

Joe-- There are plans underway for various Board members to share the
responsibility of posting a synopsis of our meetings and conversations on a
regular basis.  Mike Maul started the idea, and Steph and others have
volunteered to help. We will be focusing, among other things, on the
situation in the UAE at convention, where, as you know, there is a lot of
face to face time to get things hashed out. I recognize that it "seems"
like we are silent because there aren't copious public updates, but that
doesn't mean we are being secretive or conspiratorial, nor is it proper to
assume and accuse it as such.  It's a wonder we get anything legitimate
done what with all the "corrupt" and "underhanded" things there are on the
"to do " list to attend to. Not enough hours in the day. :)      Bruce Weary

[Kathy Mayeda]

Wow - I never saw this coming!  I know a lot of trail trial people and the ones I know would pee in their pants if they ever rode the pace of an endurance ride on the trails that we ride.  Plus, I can't see horse show people letting their horses get sweaty and dinged up on the trail.

AERC will continue as it always has, as disfunctional as it may be.  It is primarily an organization to serve an amateur sport.  This pissing match between Bruce and Truman is indicative of what types of problems there are within the organization. There is much truth to both sides.  

Bruce, instead of butting heads with Truman, I wish you would take this concern to the board and show leadership in creating transparency. Meeting agendas and minutes are simply not enough information.  We cannot even choose which board members to vote for from this meager bits of information that don't show the whole story of who is standing up for what.  I've always had problems with this issue with AERC, and it's a good thing that I don't give a dxxx.  Gawd, I hate it when I agree with Truman.  Consider his email posts to Ridecamp as a phone call to a member of the Board.

K.

[Diane Trefethen]

On 3/2/2015 7:58 AM, Bruce Weary wrote:
> Truman--
> Your response sounds like you are going the long way around to avoid admitting
> you haven't bothered to even place a call to your Regional Directors to find out
> what we have been working on. You will find great transparency, if and when you
> do. We can deliver the newspaper to your doorstep. We shouldn't have to open it
> and read it to you. Meet us halfway? Bruce Weary
>

Dear Bruce,

I'm sorry love but you've got it backwards. When people delegate to someone the
responsibility to represent them, it is the delegate’s responsibility to report
back to those who elected her/him on what s/he is doing. It is not the
responsibility of the people to write to their delegate to ask what is
happening. Yes they should write to bring something to the attention of the
delegate, something the delegate might not know, but the job of keeping the
people abreast of what’s happening is part of the job of representing those
people. In fact, it is considered a serious breakdown in communications when the
only way people can find out what their representatives are doing is by writing
to THEM.

So whether Truman wrote to HIS director or I wrote to MY director is irrelevant.
It is the responsibility of the Board as a whole to communicate to the
membership what it is doing and each Director individually to communicate to
her/his constituents what s/he is doing. It is forgivable to be a bit lazy and
not let the membership know every last detail of your discussions, it is
unacceptable to not inform them about discussions of important issues, but it is
pure arrogance to fail (refuse?) to inform them and then turn around and
sarcastically say it is THEIR fault for not knowing because they didn’t ask.

Diane Trefethen
AERC #2619
West Region

[Diane Trefethen]

On 3/2/2015 10:06 AM, Bruce Weary wrote:
> Joe-- There are plans underway for various Board members to share the
> responsibility of posting a synopsis of our meetings and conversations on a
> regular basis.

What do you mean “share the responsibility?" What the hell do we have a
Secretary for if not to keep proper minutes of ALL the meetings? I don't care if
s/he is a super nice person. If the job is too much for her/him, that person
shouldn't have the job. I wouldn't want a really nice person to be our Treasurer
and not submit any reports, either to the board or the accountant because s/he
didn't know how. Nor would I be any happier if the Treasurer DID submit reports
but they read, "We had about 2000 paid members sometime in February, I think.
And maybe $15 or $20 thousand in a bank somewhere."

Geez, guys. Get real. No wonder so many of you say nasty things like, "WELL! If
you don't like the way things are done, run for the Board yourself!" YOU think
it's about sitting on the phone pushing buttons while some of us out here might
actually think being a Director and especially being an Officer actually
requires some hard work and expertise.

MaryBen always pooh-poohs my saying I can't AFFORD to be on the Board. I bet she
thinks $7.25/hr is a living wage too. Bull shit. Not everyone lives in Silicon
Valley with 20 ISPs to choose from and 50 phone companies. Some of us have one,
it costs a f**king fortune, and if it breaks down we pound sand.

So get the damn Secretary to do her/his job and stop bullshitting us about how
little time you have. To paraphrase what you always tell us, "If you won't do
the job, then quit and let someone else take your place who will." Or maybe you
prefer, "If you can't do the job, get out of the kitchen."

[Maryben Stover]

Actually where I live, $30 per hour is a living wage.



..........mb

> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 13:44:45 -0800
> From: tr...@wakerobinranch.com
> To: ride...@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: [RC] Board

[Kathy Mayeda]

$30 and going up rapidly.....  Housing costs are totally off the charts and they're building like crazy.

[Maryben Stover]

MaryBen always pooh-poohs my saying I can't AFFORD to be on the Board. I bet she
> thinks $7.25/hr is a living wage too. Bull shit. Not everyone lives in Silicon
> Valley with 20 ISPs to choose from and 50 phone companies. Some of us have one,
> it costs a f**king fortune, and if it breaks down we pound sand.

Not sure what this has to do with the conversation but being on the BOD only costs you what it costs to go to the convention.   And the convention seminars and banquet are free to BOD members.  The mid year meeting is covered up to $500 which I always found was close to what it cost me.  And if you miss the convention (which some of the members do each year) so be it.  The monthly phone calls do not cost the individual.  It does take time and a commitment to AERC.

..........mb

---

[Bruce Weary]

Of course, I agree with you, Diane. My objections are primarily to the
accusations of impropriety, corruption, and conspiracies to keep the
membership uninformed, especially as they are put forth by people who
haven't made the simplest attempt to inform themselves. Are your
congressmen contacting you regularly and personally to keep you informed,
or do you have to at least visit a website, or blog, or make a phone call
to being the education process? I am also assuming, and forgive me if I am
inaccurate in this, that regular postings (which are forthcoming by the
way) will undoubtedly lead to further curiosities and questions on behalf
of those who have high interest. The answers to these new questions, then,
won't all be contained in these postings, so it seems logical to begin a
dialog with an informed party, in this case a DAL or RD, to get those
specific and yet further questions answered. Thus, my suggestion for those
with a burning desire to know more, such as Truman, to do something,
anything, to ask their specific questions of some source who is in a
position to know. That has yet to be done, apparently, which casts doubt on
a true desire to be better informed. That is much less fun, it seems, that
taking potshots from the cheap seats, all the while implying that all
levels of ineptitude on behalf of the Board justify doing so. There is a
VERY long history of this. It gets very old, and looks to not be ending
soon, even in, and especially in, response to new methods of bringing the
membership up to date. I think it will only get worse, and be largely
unproductive, just as these methods have proven to be. Why not call your
Directors, if only to express that you prefer a greater level of
transparency? Are people afraid or dissuaded to call a Director and ask for
help? If you have the time to read and post here, you have the time to
contact your Directors.    Bruce Weary

[ra...@sisuwest.us]

On 3/2/2015 3:18 PM, Diane Trefethen wrote:

When people delegate to someone the responsibility to represent them, it is the delegate’s responsibility  to report back to those who elected her/him on what s/he is doing.

Bingo!  The MN legislature is in session so I get emails a couple time a week from each of them plus a couple who are not from my district because they are committee chairpersons that I wrote to about particular issues.

Ed.

[Lynn White]

Where I work we record all preconstruction meetings.   I am not aware that the AERC BoD records meetings, but the technology is available for people to record meetings remotely.    There is a software package that records what everyone says.  There is also software that can transcribe down what people actually say.  Can’t AERC just buy this package and place the transcripts on the site for members to access?  It would solve a lot of the too much or too little information.    I wouldn’t imagine that it would cost an arm and a leg.   During the winter months members can pour over BoD meets at their hearts content.  If nothing else, it would be transparent.

--

[Kathy Mayeda]

Bruce, I get more emails from my US Congress people than I ever did from any AERC Board member, whether I wanted them or not.  I guess because I've sent off a few canned emails for whatever cause.  

But of course they have paid staff and individual AERC Board members do not, and being a board member is not the primary occupation.

Brucey, consider all these posts a phone call to a Board Director instead of getting all huffed up and defensive about it.  Transparency will either help the general AERC membership gain more trust in their Board, or will weed out those that aren't trustworthy. 

Are you afraid of the fall out from transparency?  This last post of yours showed that you lost your cool and is accusatory itself.  And yes, all the accusations are getting old, and a lot is falling on deaf ears and hard heads.

K.

[ra...@sisuwest.us]

On 3/2/2015 5:04 PM, Bruce Weary wrote:

Are your
congressmen contacting you regularly and personally to keep you informed,
or do you have to at least visit a website, or blog, or make a phone call
to being the education process? I

I already stated that my state reps do do this.  Michael Bachmann was also very good.  On the other hand in contrast to the Government of the USA, the AERC does not have 4 networks, at least one of which agrees or is against the policies of each Congressperson, providing news all day and night, plus a newspaper, to which I subscribe, covering all that goes on in Washington.
I am also not against to visiting a website or blog to find out what the AERC BOD is doing.  Please let me know the URL.

Ed

[Barbara MCrary]

When I was on the board, and I can’t remember how long ago that was, but I was a director for 20 years, all board meetings were recorded.

 

Barbara McCrary

Lifetime AERC member #2079

West Region

--

[Kathy Mayeda]

Were they recorded verbatim with a recording device, or just a general recap of discussions, motions and general vote counts by the secretary?  Is it clear how each individual board member voted on issues?

Were the actual recordings available to the general membership, or what happened to the recordings? 

K.

[Barbara MCrary]

Yes! And I write back and give them MY opinion on something they’re trying to put forth (or over on us, as the case may be.)

 

Barbara McCrary

Lifetime AERC member #2079

West Region

 

 

 

From: ridecampre...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ridecampre...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Weary
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015 3:04 PM
To: ride...@endurance.net
Subject: Re: [RC] Board

 

Are your congressmen contacting you regularly and personally to keep you informed,

or do you have to at least visit a website, or blog, or make a phone call

to being the education process?       Bruce Weary

 

 

 

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[Truman Prevatt]

I get regular Emails or letters from one of my Senator and my Congressman.  I probably get an Email every month or two from Senator Nelson and at least quarterly from my Congressman. 

So my answer is I hear a lot more from my elected officials in Congress than from the AERC BOD.  The AERC has a communications problem in the days when no one should have a communications problem which translates into a transparency issue. 

Truman

--
"Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to reform." - Mark Twain

[Diane Trefethen]

On 3/2/2015 2:57 PM, Kathy Mayeda wrote:
> $30 and going up rapidly..... Housing costs are totally off the charts and
> they're building like crazy.
>

> On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Maryben Stover wrote:
> Actually where I live, $30 per hour is a living wage.
>

> > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 13:44:45 -0800
> > From: tr...@wakerobinranch.com

> > MaryBen always pooh-poohs my saying I can't AFFORD to be on the Board. I
> bet she
> > thinks $7.25/hr is a living wage too. Bull shit. Not everyone lives in
> Silicon

Since $30+ is a living wage, does that mean you favor increasing the Minimum
Wage to $30?

[Rae Callaway]

I'd like to increase MY wage to $30/hr!!!

Rae

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[Maryben Stover]

They were actually recorded.  But at times the recording were poor and difficult to understand.  Technology being what it is, probably would be much better now.



..........mb

---

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 15:35:04 -0800
Subject: Re: [RC] Board
From: klma...@gmail.com
To: bigcre...@wildblue.net
CC: ride...@endurance.net

[Maryben Stover]

It is all relative to where you live.  My house here would probably go for 1M because they would want the big lot I live on and the location.  In other parts of the county it would go for about 1-300K at most.  A one bedroom apartment is about $2,000 a month now.  And don't even look at Palo Alto.  A small tiny little cottage about 6-800 square feet sells for way over a million.  Nothing in Palo Alto is under millions. 


..........mb

[Sandra Adams]

It also depends on how one lives. 

S. Adams
Deep Sands*Home of 
Salazar SF SE/AK/AF/H-ED
www.garyadamsbooks.com

[Diane Trefethen]

On 3/2/2015 3:04 PM, Bruce Weary wrote:
> Of course, I agree with you, Diane. My objections are primarily to the
> accusations of impropriety, corruption, and conspiracies to keep the
> membership uninformed, especially as they are put forth by people who
> haven't made the simplest attempt to inform themselves.

That's reasonable but then you say...

> Are your congressmen contacting you regularly and personally to keep you
> informed, or do you have to at least visit a website, or blog, or make a
> phone call to being the education process?

Here, not so reasonable.
1) Most people don't have to do anything but be registered to vote to get
"newsletters" from their Congress folk and
2) Just where is that "website, or blog" I can visit to obtain info? The latest
CC STILL isn't on AERC's website so that's out. [Does it really take 4 weeks to
post a one or two page set of minutes?] AERC doesn't consider the AERC Members
Forum an AERC endeavor so one can't rely on THAT source for up to date info.
Just where DO we go? You said to contact our RDs but not all Directors want to
share what they think. But if you really think that will work, okay. Sure. Why
not? I'm gonna write mine right away to find out what they want to do about the
2016 WEC.

[Truman Prevatt]

Oh my, what sort of weed is Bruce smoking up in the AZ desert.  Where is any accusations of impropriety or corruption or "conspiracies" - I sure didn’t see any.  What should be a conversation on how the AERC can better communicate and become more transparent has turned into conspiracy psycobabble which makes little sense and solves no issues.  Me thinks someone is getting paranoid. But don’t worry," just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t after you.” (Joseph Heller).

Yes the AERC is one of the more non-transperent organizations I have been associated with.  Maybe incompetence to address the issue but corruption and conspiracies - oh come on.    To answer you question about my Congressmen - yes at least once a quarter with a full report. 

While the Churchill quote below is of course about WWII - it basically applies to the results of the collective act of sticking ones head in the sand. 

--

“Want of foresight, unwillingness to act when action would be simple and effective, lack of clear thinking, confusion of counsel until the emergency comes, until self-preservation strikes its jarring gong - these are the features which constitute the endless repetition of history.” - Winston Churchill

On 3/2/2015 3:04 PM, Bruce Weary wrote:

Of course, I agree with you, Diane. My objections are primarily to the
accusations of impropriety, corruption, and conspiracies to keep the
membership uninformed, especially as they are put forth by people who
haven't made the simplest attempt to inform themselves.

snip

[Bruce Weary]

"Where is any accusations of impropriety or corruption or "conspiracies" - I sure didn’t see any." Ah. Progress made. So we are in agreement, Truman, then, that there is no impropriety, corruption, or conspiracies of silence going on at the Board. Maybe less communication than some would like, and that is being addressed. And, we would also have to agree, as it is still so apparent, that interested members are under utilizing personal communication with Directors as a source of enlightenment, and Diane has agreed to try that avenue. And, Diane, our Board members may have their  faults, but being reluctant to give their opinions on matters isn't one of them.

 Now, I have some things to attend to to prepare for three days of work at the convention. Unless there are other questions, as this is my last week on the Board, I will leave further questions to my capable colleagues still serving.

   Brucey Weary

[Diane Trefethen]

Dear Bruce,

I have done as you suggested and emailed an inquiry to my two RDs. Both
responded promptly and courteously. However, unless the BOD plans on conducting
its business in a very different manner at the Convention and going forward than
it has heretofore, their responses are just Phase I of the Board’s system of
communicating with the membership. Specifically, their replies contained no
information that could not be reasonably guessed at by a shipwrecked sailor
stranded on a desert island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. So that is Phase
I. Respond to a member but don’t tell him anything except that the matter will
be discussed at the next Board meeting. Duh.

Phase II is the discussion at the Board meeting. My guess is that the rule of
thumb for that discussion will be the same as always (unless the aforementioned
change to how the Board conducts business takes place). To wit, “Leave no useful
record of this discussion.” To that end, the minutes will not record the various
ideas put forth nor will they mention the names of the Directors who submit
those ideas with the exception that if an idea has been proposed in the form of
a motion, the motion will probably appear in the minutes and the mover will be
named, usually a committee. There will be no record made of the arguments pro
and con for each idea and who made those arguments, there will be no record that
the idea was suggested or discussed, no record of who supported it or opposed it
or why, in fact, unless someone converts the idea into a motion, there will be
no record that it ever existed at all. Continuing in the same
don’t-let-anyone-outside-this-meeting-know-shit vein, if the idea becomes a
motion and is voted on, there will be no record by name of the vote so unless
the vote is unanimous, none of the membership will know how their RD voted.

Phase III occurs when a member follows up by emailing or phoning his RD to ask
what happened at the meeting. He will not be told about any idea not moved nor
how his RD felt about that idea. The RD is free to lie to the member about his
vote (tell him what he thinks the member wants to hear) because, HELLO, there is
no record of the vote.

Phase IV is the next election where any member who went to the extra effort, as
you have suggested, to find out his RD’s views will have only what the RD wanted
him to know to go on. Every other member will have even less than that.

And THAT is how the AERC Board conducts business and why any member who stops to
think, rather than cheerfully assuming that the BOD is operating in the
sunshine, will come to the inescapable conclusion that the Board is
non-transparent with no real interest in informing the membership about what it
does. And that is also quite likely why Truman, who is probably a genius,
doesn’t waste his valuable time on that wild goose chase you keep trying to send
him on.

Still ignorant and not really expecting any further elucidation,

Diane Trefethen
AERC #2691
West Region

PS: The proper way to do this Hot Topics thing is to put out on the Forum, on
RideCamp and possibly on FB, a full list of all the ideas that are being
proposed/suggested NOW instead of shrouding everything in secrecy and then
sitting smugly up on that damn dais and pretending to care about what the
membership has to say. So there’s my gauntlet. Do you have the guts to buck the
system and put in print the ideas you all have been kicking around so when
members come up to the mic, at least some of us will know what’s already been
discussed?

[Bruce Weary]

I don't think there is anything else productive to come from this discussion. Contact your Directors. Or, don't contact your Directors. Step up and serve, or don't step up and serve. Actually ride endurance or don't ride endurance. Presume the worst, or presume the best. It really is what we all make of it. It's up to each of us to enjoy the sport and work for its betterment. Or not. I'm on to other things.   Bruce Weary

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[Barbara MCrary]

Bruce, by now you must be living up to your last name – weary – of being criticized, hounded, etc. Odd…I don’t remember this sort of thing happening when I was on the board, but then that was before e-mail and Ridecamp. I vividly remember one Sunday morning – Louise Riedel, one of my favorite people and a fellow BOD member, called me and asked me if I knew about such-and-such an issue. I told her I had not even heard about it. She answered that the other BOD members were discussing it via e-mail (which I did not yet have.) I was really upset about this, so (if you can’t lick’em, then join’em) I promptly signed up for e-mail and haven’t looked back. It’s a valuable tool, but it does allow people to say snarky things about – and to – others, which is quite uncivilized. If you wouldn’t say it to someone’s face, then don’t hide behind e-mail. Or as Thumper famously said, “if you cain’t say something nice, don’t say it at all.” I’ve thought about that MANY times in my life.

Maybe you’ve had enough of the non-productive wrangling between the AERC BOD and a few dissatisfied members, and if so, I can’t blame you. The reason I’m not still on the BOD is that the membership got tired of ME. J

 

Back to riding and competing, Bruce.

Best wishes,

Barbara

 

 

From: ridecampre...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ridecampre...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Weary
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 3:45 AM
To: ride...@endurance.net
Subject: Re: [RC] Board

 

I don't think there is anything else productive to come from this discussion. Contact your Directors. Or, don't contact your Directors. Step up and serve, or don't step up and serve. Actually ride endurance or don't ride endurance. Presume the worst, or presume the best. It really is what we all make of it. It's up to each of us to enjoy the sport and work for its betterment. Or not. I'm on to other things.   Bruce Weary

 

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[Bruce Weary]

Hi Barbara--

 Thank you for your kind thoughts, as well as your service to AERC over the years. As much as I have been willing to be in the fray on issues that face us, and exposed to the frustrations of our members at times, I truly don't take it personally, or lose any sleep over it. I  know that Truman and Diane and Kat and others don't mean their comments to be taken personally, either. At least I think they don't. I feel that they are passionate about our sport and our horses, and for whatever reason if they don't find themselves in a position at the moment to strike a blow for horse welfare or to exert influence personally to make changes for the better in AERC, they are hoping those who they elected to do so will, and hopefully in the way they envision it. And I think that is where the rub is. Things seldom happen as quickly as we would like when we look at pictures of horses with broken legs, or lying dead in the desert sun from overexertion. I think the Board is too big, but nevertheless there are 26 dedicated people, with good minds and AERC's best interest at heart at the helm. And those people are replaced fairly frequently, so to always attribute certain qualities to the Board is like aiming at a moving target.

  People are people and they will usually work better, more enthusiastically, and more productively, with support than criticism, although both serve their purpose. I am reminded of an anecdote I heard from Wayne Dyer, where he tells a story of when his car had stalled in a rainstorm. He tried and tried to get it started, but with no luck. The guy behind him was impatient and was constantly honking his horn and angrily admonishing Wayne to move his car. Wayne walked back to the guy and said, " I think it's flooded and I can't seem to get it started. Would you like to give it a try?" "I'll bet I can do a better job than you!," was his reply. When Wayne didn't follow him to the car, the guy asked "What are you gonna do? Just stand there?" To which Wayne replied, "I thought I'd stay back here and keep laying on the horn, if you think that might help."  The two ended up pushing the car to safety together. Not a bad solution. :)

 Will I see you at convention?     Bruce

[Laney Humphrey]

love Wayne Dyer's story, Bruce! Thanks to you as well as Barbara for
your service to AERC.
Laney

[Barbara MCrary]

Answer to last question: No, I won’t be there. I ride very little now and I don’t like leaving Lud on his own. He’s very independent and I’m afraid he’ll do something that could be dangerous. We agreed that neither of us will operate machinery (tractor, chainsaw, brush cutter, et al) without the other being along. It’s too risky now. Lud will be 87 in June, and I’ll be 82 in May. We have to take care of each other. J

Darn, I’m going to miss that steak dinner you keep talking about…

[Bruce Weary]

Well, Barbara, you and Lud are doing pretty well for your age. My wife won't leave me alone

with a blender without a babysitter. :)    Bruce

[Barbara MCrary]

Oh, piffle !

[Joe Long]

But she'll leave you alone with a babysitter?  Trusting ...    : )

Bruce Weary

March 3, 2015 at 10:51 AM

Well, Barbara, you and Lud are doing pretty well for your age. My wife won't leave me alone

with a blender without a babysitter. :)    Bruce

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Barbara MCrary

March 3, 2015 at 10:46 AM

Bruce Weary

March 3, 2015 at 9:53 AM

Hi Barbara--

 Thank you for your kind thoughts, as well as your service to AERC over the years. As much as I have been willing to be in the fray on issues that face us, and exposed to the frustrations of our members at times, I truly don't take it personally, or lose any sleep over it. I  know that Truman and Diane and Kat and others don't mean their comments to be taken personally, either. At least I think they don't. I feel that they are passionate about our sport and our horses, and for whatever reason if they don't find themselves in a position at the moment to strike a blow for horse welfare or to exert influence personally to make changes for the better in AERC, they are hoping those who they elected to do so will, and hopefully in the way they envision it. And I think that is where the rub is. Things seldom happen as quickly as we would like when we look at pictures of horses with broken legs, or lying dead in the desert sun from overexertion. I think the Board is too big, but nevertheless there are 26 dedicated people, with good minds and AERC's best interest at heart at the helm. And those people are replaced fairly frequently, so to always attribute certain qualities to the Board is like aiming at a moving target.

  People are people and they will usually work better, more enthusiastically, and more productively, with support than criticism, although both serve their purpose. I am reminded of an anecdote I heard from Wayne Dyer, where he tells a story of when his car had stalled in a rainstorm. He tried and tried to get it started, but with no luck. The guy behind him was impatient and was constantly honking his horn and angrily admonishing Wayne to move his car. Wayne walked back to the guy and said, " I think it's flooded and I can't seem to get it started. Would you like to give it a try?" "I'll bet I can do a better job than you!," was his reply. When Wayne didn't follow him to the car, the guy asked "What are you gonna do? Just stand there?" To which Wayne replied, "I thought I'd stay back here and keep laying on the horn, if you think that might help."  The two ended up pushing the car to safety together. Not a bad solution. :)

 Will I see you at convention?     Bruce

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Barbara MCrary

March 3, 2015 at 8:57 AM

Bruce Weary

March 3, 2015 at 4:44 AM

I don't think there is anything else productive to come from this discussion. Contact your Directors. Or, don't contact your Directors. Step up and serve, or don't step up and serve. Actually ride endurance or don't ride endurance. Presume the worst, or presume the best. It really is what we all make of it. It's up to each of us to enjoy the sport and work for its betterment. Or not. I'm on to other things.   Bruce Weary

[Diane Trefethen]

On 3/3/2015 2:48 PM, Joe Long wrote:
> But she'll leave you alone with a babysitter? Trusting ... : )
>

>> Bruce Weary <mailto:weary...@gmail.com>

>> March 3, 2015 at 10:51 AM
>> Well, Barbara, you and Lud are doing pretty well for your age. My wife won't
>> leave me alone with a blender without a babysitter. :) Bruce

ROFL! Ah, Joe. You must come to Convention :)

Kindly, Diane