MARK 6:14-29
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R E LANGFORD JR
Feb 25, 2012, 12:29:17 PM2/25/12
to MARK, Bible Study, Joe Gaudet
Greetings All!
Here is the fragment of comment on MARK 6:14-29, as revised yesterday, FRI., 24 FEB '12.
Here is the fragment of comment on MARK 6:14-29, as revised yesterday, FRI., 24 FEB '12.
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| joegabe1: | *MSG* Dear Lord |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* Bless this session of the study |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* and inspire our teacher |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* and let us have our mind open and our mouth shut for the lesson |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* we ask this in jesus name |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* amen |
| 1revd: | *MSG* amen |
| PK: | *MSG* amen |
| 1revd: | *MSG* ty joegabe |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* sorry i could not resist sayinn that lol |
| PK: | *MSG* resist saying what? |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* mind open mouth shut lol |
| PK: | *MSG* lol |
| 1revd: | *MSG* it's a good reminder for me |
| PK: | *MSG* I agree |
| 1revd: | *MSG* i need all the help the Holy Spirit can provide |
| 1revd: | *MSG* Two weeks ago, on 10 FEB 12, I note that I commented on the statement in MARK 6:1-6a to the effect that the names of Jesus' kin are mentioned. MARK 6:3 "Isn't this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judah, and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us?" They were offended at him. |The Bible| I suggested that it is only if one has an overriding interest in the "perpetual virginity" of Mary, mother to Jesus, that one might get upset that Jesus could have siblings, blood relations who were sons and daughters to Mary and Joseph. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* OTOH, this must never be construed in such a way, as a ploy, or scheme to deride those who hold to such a position, IMO. Perhaps I did not stress this enough, as some have raised a question about it in such a way as to suggest our RC friends ar simply "wrong headed." Perhaps I ought to have stressed it more firmly? |
| 1revd: | *MSG* I may prefer the simplest possible (for simple minded folk like me) response, remembering Ockham's Razor. Ockham proposed that the simple, clear answer (among many possible answers) is most likely the correct one, when a student is faced with a multiple choice question. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* OTOH again, that Mary is the "God-bearer" or "Theotokos" according to the great Church Council of Ephesus, 431 AD, cannot be overlooked. Literally, we thus understand that Mary is the mother not just of a human fragment of the Messiah but of the whole Jesus. In this way an Ecumenical Church Council affirmed theological conclusion (at least in the latin translation) that Mary is "mater tou theou" = mater Dei, or Mother of God (in English), an idea which our dear Mohammadan friends criticize roundly and reject vigorously. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* The Mohammadans neglect to comprehend that the whole discussion about Mary's motherhood and \ or virginity, perpetual or otherwise, is all a discussion about the nature of the Messiah-ship of Jesus as truly divine and truly human simultaneously, 100% of the time from his conception through to his crucifixion and resurrection, as well as his ascension to the throne of God. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* Lutherans tend to remember to reject such failure to ponder the truth, the evident biblical truth about Jesus. What I might personally be inclined to think, feeble-witted as I am, perhaps I did not stress firmly enough that the "perpetual virginity" of Mary was and is an opinion held by many faithful Christians of the Eastern Orthodox, RC, Lutheran, Anglican, etc. persuasion on theological, doctrinal grounds? For me, it remains a tempest in a teacup. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* + + + + + |
| 1revd: | *MSG* MARK 6:14-29 Bible Study for "Christian Friendship" chatroom \ Joegabe1 on FRI., 6 MAY 2011 |
| 1revd: | *MSG* Joegabe, would you post the bible verses at this time? |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* Mark 6:16-29 |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* New International Version (NIV) |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* 16 But when Herod heard this, he said, ???John, whom I beheaded, has been raised from the dead!??? |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* 17 For Herod himself had given orders to have John arrested, and he had him bound and put in prison. He did this because of Herodias, his brother Philip???s wife, whom he had married. 18 For John had been saying to Herod, ???It is not lawful for you to have your brother???s wife.??? 19 So Herodias nursed a grudge against John and wanted to kill him. But she was not able to, 20 because Herod |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* feared John and protected him, knowing him to be a righteous and holy man. When Herod heard John, he was greatly puzzled[a]; yet he liked to listen to him. |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* 21 Finally the opportune time came. On his birthday Herod gave a banquet for his high officials and military commanders and the leading men of Galilee. 22 When the daughter of[b] Herodias came in and danced, she pleased Herod and his dinner guests. |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* The king said to the girl, ???Ask me for anything you want, and I???ll give it to you.??? 23 And he promised her with an oath, ???Whatever you ask I will give you, up to half my kingdom.??? |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* 24 She went out and said to her mother, ???What shall I ask for???? |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* ???The head of John the Baptist,??? she answered. |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* 25 At once the girl hurried in to the king with the request: ???I want you to give me right now the head of John the Baptist on a platter.??? |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* 26 The king was greatly distressed, but because of his oaths and his dinner guests, he did not want to refuse her. 27 So he immediately sent an executioner with orders to bring John???s head. The man went, beheaded John in the prison, 28 and brought back his head on a platter. He presented it to the girl, and she gave it to her mother. 29 On hearing of this, John???s disciples came and took |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* his body and laid it in a tomb. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* ty joegabe |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* yw |
| 1revd: | *MSG* do we still agree that "???" stands for quotation marks, or an apostrophy? |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* yes |
| 1revd: | *MSG* neat |
| 1revd: | *MSG* Let us take the passage piece by piece, bit by bit. |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* ok |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* one day at a time |
| 1revd: | *MSG* :) |
| 1revd: | *MSG* that's best |
| 1revd: | *MSG* What is the "it" that Herod had heard of? Isn't it rather clear that what Herod heard was that Jesus was sending out his disciples two by two, and they were having some success in preaching, healing, and casting out demons? That is the immediately earlier portion of Mark's gospel tale. By this technique, IMO, Mark masterfully draws the attention of his audience to something well known to them, and makes it a part of his story or tale of the life of our savior / messiah. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* We ought be careful here in noting that Mark calls Herod "king." Literally "basileus" when, in fact, Herod is only a 1/4 head over the realm; this Herod is only a "tetrarch." Perhaps Mark does this sarcastically? Or, maybe, Mark simply adopts Herod's popular title? We do not know. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* "Among all the many possibilities of which Herod may have heard. . . ." Among all the options available, four are mentioned, not one credits Jesus himself with having taught and empowered his disciples with life enhancing authority. Something you and I, along with those who first heard Mark's story know is the matter of fact. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* Herod decides to believe the one least likely, even if it is the one which makes him out to be a murderer! There is a sense in which those who are perishing will believe just about anything, as Herod does, rather than do what Jesus, and then his apostles preach: "The Kingdom of God is here and now. Repent and believe the good news." Herod does not opt for the simplest and clearest choice; of course, Herod did not have the advantage we do of knowing about the 14th century logician and Franciscan friar William of Ockham. Ockham was the village in the English county of Surrey where William was born. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* MARK 6:16 But Herod, when he heard this, (perhaps a summary of what the apostles of Jesus were doing), said, "This is John, whom I beheaded. He has risen from the dead." |The Bible| Herod decides that eventhough Jesus' name is becoming well-known, in fact, it is really John the baptizer he beheaded coming back to life and sending out disciples as apostles. IMO, Herod was quite the flaky, nutty, fruit-cake, one wacky fellow. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* Besides being a murderer, that is. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* The tale that follows is a cautionary one about how an uneasy conscience increases our tendency to superstition. Herod clearly thinks John the Baptizer is come back as a spook to haunt him. If there is great interest in spook stories, such as one views on the TV, here is a biblical one! It's almost as weird as the one about the witch of Endor raising the spook of Samuel for Saul to question. HA! Notice how people yet today credit such nonsense? The public newspapers publish "horoscopes" and other such nonsense. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* MARK 6:17 For Herod himself had sent out and arrested John, and bound him in prison for the sake of Herodias, his brother Philip's wife, for he had married her. 18 For John said to Herod, "It is not lawful for you to have your brother's wife." |The Bible| Josephus, an historian of those times, but probably someone not known to Mark, reports what Mark and his audience might well have known from word of mouth. For by that venue the news came to Jesus. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* "Word of mouth" is still of interest today. Restaurants often ask on their surveys, "Will you tell your family and friends about your experience at our restaurants?" This continues to amaze me! |
| 1revd: | *MSG* Any questions, problems, doubts? |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* no |
| PK: | *MSG* no |
| 1revd: | *MSG* OK, grand |
| 1revd: | *MSG* Josephus says John was imprisoned at Machaerus, a fortress in Perea on the eastern side of the Dead Sea. Thus a locale a bit south of where John had been doing his preaching and baptizing, and much further south than the Sea of Galilee, at whose northern end we note Capernaum sits. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* The remainder of this tale is a rehearsal of events probably well known to Mark's audience. It merely illustrates how telling people God's perspective on their behavior or language will typically get even the most inoffensive, peaceful, quiet person into trouble with the "authorities that be." There will always be enough self-important people around to make life miserable for ordinary God-respecting folk! |
| 1revd: | *MSG* There are no direct references to anything Jesus said or did, and no report about how he felt. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* Precisely WHY Mark includes this cautionary tale about John the Forerunner is already forgotten by the time Matthew and Luke include it, with considerable elaboration. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* We are told nothing more by Mark, except that this indicates the end of the Forerunner's ministry. Now, without his older cousin to prepare his path, Jesus is strictly on his own, so to say. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* Well, The comments I have to share end here; I must stop here. The next tale, or pearl in the string Mark is telling us, a pericope or cameo is MARK 6:20-44, a long one. |
| 1revd: | *MSG* A very long one! |
| 1revd: | *MSG* Joegabe1, would you lead us in a closing prayer today? |
| 1revd: | *MSG* amen |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* Dear Lord |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* Hear our prayer |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* as we thankk you for all thaT you do for us |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* we are not deserving oh lord |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* but you love us so much |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* also i would like to offer up pks dad for you to comfort and protect |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* and keep safe |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* he is in need of your help |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* we ask this in the name of your son jesus |
| joegabe1: | *MSG* amen |
| PK: | *MSG* amen |
| 1revd: | *MSG* amen |
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The Rev'd R E LANGFORD JR, FAPC, ELCA pastor ! retired !
A blest and holy Lent to you and yours!
The Rev'd R E LANGFORD JR, FAPC, ELCA pastor ! retired !
A blest and holy Lent to you and yours!
My clarity of conscience and my purity of heart are undisputed
evidence that my memory is failing me. `·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸..·´¯`·...¸ ><(((((º> `·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((º> `·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.· ><((º>
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