MARK 6:6b-13

[R E LANGFORD JR]

Greetings All!

Here is the bible study for 17 FEB 2012. It is on MARK 6:6b-13.
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MARK 6:6b-13

For Royal Family Coffee chatroom / Joegabe1, on 17 FEB 2012

joegabe1:

*MSG* Dear Lord
joegabe1: *MSG* Hear our prayer
joegabe1: *MSG* as we pray for wisdom and alertness
joegabe1: *MSG* while studying your word
joegabe1: *MSG* your word is necessary to know lord as we are living in the end times joegabe1: *MSG* we ask this in jesus holy name
joegabe1: *MSG* amen
Minxy__FR: *MSG* amen
1revd: *MSG* Amen. I like your reflection on Wisdom & Alertness.
1revd: *MSG* "insight" comes from the Lord, = wisdom with alertness
1revd: *MSG* amen + amen

joegabe1:

*MSG* well minx needs to be alert shes fallin asleep lol
1revd: *MSG* :0
1revd: *MSG* :)
1revd: *MSG* sorry

1revd:

*MSG* will you print out for us MARK 6: 6b-13 ?
joegabe1: *MSG* Mark 6:6-13
joegabe1: *MSG* New International Version (NIV)
joegabe1: *MSG* 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith.
joegabe1: *MSG* Jesus Sends Out the Twelve
joegabe1: *MSG* Then Jesus went around teaching from village to village. 7 Calling the Twelve to him, he began to send them out two by two and gave them authority over impure spirits.
joegabe1: *MSG* 8 These were his instructions: ???Take nothing for the journey except a staff???no bread, no bag, no money in your belts. 9 Wear sandals but not an extra shirt. 10 Whenever you enter a house, stay there until you leave that town. 11 And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, leave that place and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them.???
joegabe1: *MSG* 12 They went out and preached that people should repent. 13 They drove out many demons and anointed many sick people with oil and healed them.
1revd: *MSG* again we see that "???" means quotation marks?
joegabe1: *MSG* yes
Minxy__FR: *MSG* yes
1revd: *MSG* ok

1revd:

*MSG* we take it piece by piece
1revd: *MSG* !bible Mark 6:6b
1revd: *MSG* ??
Minxy__FR: *MSG* you put the b
1revd: *MSG* !bible Mark 6:6
coffeebot: *MSG* 1revd: Mark 6:6 He marveled because of their unbelief. He went around the villages teaching. |The Bible|
joegabe1: *MSG* lol
coffeebot: *MSG* ACTION hehehe
1revd: *MSG* Ah ha!
1revd: *MSG* robot doesn't know how the verses sometimes do not end at a break.
Minxy__FR: *MSG* right

1revd:

*MSG* "He went around the villages teaching" = = = MARK 6:6b
1revd: *MSG* Jesus, in Mark's tale, had been going about from village to village, not staying long in any one spot. This gives some modern interpreters / translators the idea that he was some kind of peripatetic sage or healer, after the model of some others in that age. For my part, I think Mark is simply reporting what everyone already knew.

joegabe1:

*MSG* robots are only as smart as the nut that owns the room
Minxy__FR: *MSG* well then umm never mind

1revd:

*MSG* He's only talking to people who've shown an interest. "Word of mouth" was the speediest way available to spread Good News. As Ockham's razor suggests the simplest, clearest answer is probably the correct one, we do not need to conclude anything about the "style" or "character" of Jesus' ministry being like or unlike anyone else's. Drawing conclusions is an error into which many "seekers" seem to stumble, IMO.

1revd:

*MSG* only if the owner "programmed" the robot, joegabe
1revd: *MSG* :)

1revd:

*MSG* MARK 6:7 He called to himself the twelve, and began to send them out two by two; and he gave them authority over the unclean spirits. |The Bible| So, first he gathers a cadre of followers to be disciples, now he turns over to them the job of spreading the Good News he had been spreading. This is not unlike the story about Moses getting advice from his father-in-law to appoint folks to "judge" disputes, let others deal with administrative matters. [GENESIS 18] Jesus, like Moses had to learn, is making sure that his "mission" has follow through, or follow up, as the case may be.
1revd: *MSG* Notice also that Jesus gives them authority over "unclean" spirits. Not over people, not over the message, not a modernistic "independence" to speak what seemed fitting
Minxy__FR: *MSG* yes
joegabe1: *MSG* yes
1revd: *MSG* Rather an un-American approach to a job! No "right" to freedom of speech. :) Not quite so bad as some folks with a "canned" or memorized speech, but for sure, not their own message.
1revd: *MSG* Jesus sends out "apo stello" his chosen ones. Thus the disciples, the close, intimates become "apostles" (the English translation for the Greek "to send out.") What's mildly interesting is that he sends them out "two by two." This has occasioned many a guess as to why they were only six pairs travelling about, instead of twelve individuals. I've read that it might be to bolster credibility. The Law of Moses requires that evidence is taken or accepted when coming from two or three witnesses, just one reporter doesn't count. That's in DEUTERONOMY 17:6. Others have guessed that it might be to provide company or bolster confidence, since this was the first time Jesus sends them out.
1revd: *MSG* The response I like has to do with the state of the highways and by-ways of that era . THEY WERE NOT SAFE.
1revd: *MSG* To us moderns, right away a believer thinks of a tale from another gospel "The Good Samaritan"
1revd: *MSG* but that's not in MARK, and so we cannot pretend that we know the highways were unsafe.
1revd: *MSG* WE cannot claim WE know that.
1revd: *MSG* What then?
1revd: *MSG* So, why do the disciples become apostles on a two by two basis? To provide modest security, sure, that's an easy answer. But why might two males, big hard working fishermen, for example, need a little more protection? each for the other? Joegabe suggested that it could be to verify and accern what each other did. I agreed, and wrote, "Yup, you've got it." IMO, they are there to "watch and learn" on this apprentice-ship journey.
1revd: *MSG* That was a good insight a year ago.
1revd: *MSG* This passage was looked at the FRI of Easter Week.
1revd: *MSG* [ASIDE] I've learned in the last 15 years another option. It comes from reflecting on the fact that Jesus treats males and females equally in the ministry he establishes. So? Well, when women went about in those times, outside their homes, they always went with a companion, perhaps a male member of the family, more rarely with just another female. Thus, IMO there's a secondary, less obvious to us, reason for sending out the disciples two by two. Of course, i cannot prove this, it's just a guess. Jesus estimates, or reasonably foresees a day when women, contrary to prevailing custom, may be those sent out: "apo stello." So he sets a pattern early on, that apostles go two by two. [ASIDE ENDS]
1revd: *MSG* This is a guess of my own. Any problems? Questions?
joegabe1: *MSG* no
Minxy__FR: *MSG* no

1revd:

*MSG* IMO, Jesus - at this stage in his ministry - sees or foresees success in his insistance that males and females can do the ministry he inaugurates.
1revd: *MSG* "Make sense to you, joegabe?" I asked, and joegabe1 wrote, "Yes it does." I'm glad, because it's an option that makes sense to me. So i'm not all blather and hot air, full of words, as m'wife says that prove nothing.
joegabe1: *MSG* yes
1revd: *MSG* :) glad you've not changed your POV
1revd: *MSG* Now come the "travel parameters" or "rules of the road." Jesus gave them authority over unclean spirits (not "evil" in the koiné Greek) MARK 6:8 He commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, except a staff only: no bread, no wallet, no money in their purse, |The Bible|
1revd: *MSG* Got that? No food (bread), no knapsack (wallet), no pocket change (money in their purse),
joegabe1: *MSG* yes
1revd: *MSG* no drink (wine in a skin) either - an idea proposed by a classmate of mine
1revd: *MSG* this implies the water in the brooks throughout Galilee was known to be drinkable
1revd: *MSG* even so,
1revd: *MSG* Mark doesn't mention "no drink" so we dare not conclude anything certain.
1revd: *MSG* only a walking stick (staff). I betcha it was a stout one, such as a bandit might fear getting the end in his belly or a whack on the wrist or head. These were not weak, scholarly types, but hardened working fishermen, etc. BTW, the "purses" mentioned were folded layers usually of leather that made up a peasant's belt. Also, MARK 6:9 reports that they were to wear sandals, and not put on two tunics. |The Bible|
1revd: *MSG* Clearly, I hope, they are going on foot, hoofing it, so to say, so sandals (rather than bare feet) would protect them again. But,they are to take no extra tunic, no extra wooly socks, to keep them warm at night in an open field.
1revd: *MSG* To my thinking, Jesus is setting them up so that they had to trust that other peasants would be receptive to their message. Their hearers would invite them in to stay the night,
joegabe1: *MSG* brb in a few
1revd: *MSG* k
1revd: *MSG* tc

1revd:

*MSG* These hearers, probably peasants like themselves, would provide some food, perhaps would provide a drink of clean well water. Jesus' clearly pondered his "rules for the road" carefully, IMO.
1revd: *MSG* BTW, again, IMO these are good rules for sending out people to do evangelism or "witnessing" in any neighborhood even in our country, the USA, today, 20+ centuries later.
1revd: *MSG* So long as they do not wear sombre black outfits like some strange door to door advertisers, my impression or guess is borne out by: MARK 6:10 He said to them, "Wherever you enter into a house, stay there until you depart from there. |The Bible| So, if you find people receptive to your message, stay put. Do not hunt around in a town for a better accomodation, or better table, bed & breakfast, or welcome. Just stay put, do your job of sharing by word of mouth the good news, then move on.

1revd:

*MSG* We already know what the message was.
1revd: *MSG* !bible Mark 1:14
coffeebot: *MSG* 1revd: Mark 1:14 Now after John was taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the Good News of the Kingdom of God, |The Bible|
1revd: *MSG* and
1revd: *MSG* !bible Mark 1:15
coffeebot: *MSG* 1revd: Mark 1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God is at hand! Repent, and believe in the Good News." |The Bible|
1revd: *MSG* Betcha the people of Mark's audiences had better memories than I do for what they heard. :)

1revd:

*MSG* But, even so, what if it doesn't work, you might ask? Mark reports that Jesus had thought about this possibility also. MARK 6:11 Whoever will not receive you nor hear you, as you depart from there, shake off the dust that is under your feet for a testimony against them. Assuredly, I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!" |The Bible|
1revd: *MSG* You and I know, along with the demons in Mark's tale, that this Jesus in Mark's story is the messiah of God, the one who is coming to judge the living and the dead. But ... that jumps ahead too quickly.
1revd: *MSG* BTW, That's the standard Law of Moses way of indicating separation from someone who doesn't welcome you or your message. Take off a sandal and publicly shake off the dust from that town. Jesus seems to have a low tolerance for those who will not hear and believe his "apo stello" Twelve. We'll run into this format again [MARK 10:14-15 low tolerance level] but that's jumping the gun, so to write, at this juncture. It's neither here nor there thus far in the tale as we're hearing it.
1revd: *MSG* There was a formula of acceptance in common usage since the time of the Exodus, "hear and obey." We even have SS songs that echo that theme. The import of the idea is that obedience is the evidence that you have heard the message, you are busy conforming your life to the good news you have heard.
1revd: *MSG* Any problems? Questions?
joegabe1: *MSG* nope
1revd: *MSG* OOOOOOOOK
1revd: *MSG* Joegabe then asked, "What does it mean, 'when you enter a house stay there until you depart from there'?" Ah, then I wrote: "when you are welcomed into someone's home," stay put, stay there, be content. Reside where you're welcome; do not cast about looking to better your accomodations? OK?" Joegabe wrote, "Oh, ok, yes."
1revd: *MSG* Last year we were a tad more "chatty."
1revd: *MSG* :)

1revd:

*MSG* Stay in one house in a town means that a house that welcomes you will become known to the others in town ... perhaps not to any authorities? Then joegabe wrote, "TY for explaining it," and I responded, "Sure." Basically, the idea is that, as an apostle, don't be overly concerned with hunting out better situations for yourself. Your job is to tell Good News, heal, cleanse, and then move on.
1revd: *MSG* Then something amazing happens in the story.
1revd: *MSG* At least in my POV it is amazing. More wonderfully for us, Mark reports it. 1revd: *MSG* That's exactly what the six teams of two did. MARK 6:12 They went out and preached that people should repent. |The Bible| The message of Jesus is not changed by The Twelve. In addition, MARK 6:13 They cast out many demons, and anointed many with oil who were sick, and healed them. |The Bible|

1revd:

*MSG* A friend of mine once asked "where did they get the oil" for anointing?
1revd: *MSG* Want to take a guess? They did not bring it with them, we know that.
1revd: *MSG* Any guesses?
Minxy__FR: *MSG* from trees
1revd: *MSG* oil from a tree? like turpentine from pine trees?
Minxy__FR: *MSG* yeah
1revd: *MSG* safer to guess olive oil, IMO
joegabe1: *MSG* anything can be used for oil cause its not the oil that heals it is the faith in jesus that moves mountains
Minxy__FR: *MSG* right
1revd: *MSG* squeeze olives and you get oil
1revd: *MSG* ah, joegabe, you're showing that you know stuff from other new testament sources
1revd: *MSG* #1, no where does Mark report that the apostles had oil, and no where does Mark say that the apostles had what we've learned to call "saving faith" in Jesus
1revd: *MSG* #2, their message is the same as Jesus' own message
1revd: *MSG* #3, no other message exists in MARK up to this point
1revd: *MSG* #4, only you and I and a listener to Mark know that Jesus is a messiah of God, except of course for the demons in the story
1revd: *MSG* Remember!
1revd: *MSG* MARK is the first gospel; no other tale told had been told as Mark's story was told, and then written down later.
joegabe1: *PART* Left room.

1revd:

*MSG* olive oil, however, we know was used for lighting the lamps
1revd: *MSG* olive oil was also used on bread and vegetables and meats
joegabe1: *JOIN* Entered room.
coffeebot: *MSG* joegabe1 Welcome to The Coffee Shop, we are glad you could come.
coffeebot: *MSG* 4Administrator: joegabe1. Type !x to view coffeebot's Control Panel.
preciouskit1: *MSG* why meats
1revd: *MSG* wb
1revd: *MSG* :)
1revd: *MSG* precious?
preciouskit1: *MSG* why was olive oil used on meats
1revd: *MSG* there was no bacon grease, no "Crisco," no soybean oil, etc., etc. olive oil was the only oil available for "searing" meat in a pan or on a spit
1revd: *MSG* It's tricky for us to remember. Kosher means no mixing things together also.
preciouskit1: *MSG* I did kosher one year i know what it means
preciouskit1: *MSG* I worked in a Jewish home about 11 yrs ago
1revd: *MSG* Loads of rules about not cooking veal in its mother's milk, no using "unclean" things with clean.
preciouskit1: *MSG* they still do the kosher thing
1revd: *MSG* neat, then you already know about using olive oil for frying
preciouskit1: *MSG* no I worked there not live there
1revd: *MSG* They went preaching; they went out cleansing; they exercised "first aid" and did that century's treatment "anointing with oil" those who were sick and "healed" them.
preciouskit1: *MSG* thing is ppl have their own ideas today about kosher now
1revd: *MSG* That's not the point, precious, we're trying to read Mark's ideas, not our own insertions.

1revd: *MSG* Ack, sorry! I got a "time stamp" mixed in. That will need help!
joegabe1: *MSG* i will take it out for you
1revd: *MSG* ty

1revd:

*MSG* THIS LAST, 'and healed them,' might mean they touched the untouchable, which is what healing in a social sense could mean at that time. From my perspective, joegabe, this remains a good "first" apprentice-ship approach for any pastor asking his visitation teams or evangelization teams to operate in this manner within the parish.
1revd: *MSG* Do things the way Jesus instructed his own apostles. That would mean a modern team of two would have a truly apostolic ministry.
1revd: *MSG* That we could recapture that sense of being "sent out" by Jesus, empowered by the Holy Spirit, to do as the Father wills, ah, that is the prayer of most pastors for their parishioners. Betcha!
1revd: *MSG* And that, joegabe will have to do for today! Will you lead us in prayer?
joegabe1: *MSG* ok
1revd: *MSG* m'wife's called twice

joegabe1:

*MSG* Heavenly Father
joegabe1: *MSG* We do well to give you thanks for all you do
joegabe1: *MSG* bless us and bless all that we do
joegabe1: *MSG* until we meet next week
joegabe1: *MSG* keep us well
joegabe1: *MSG* and all our families
joegabe1: *MSG* we ask this in the name of your son Christ Jesus
joegabe1: *MSG* amen
1revd: *MSG* amen

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PEACE in this happy POST-EPIPHANY SEASON,  
good will to you, and yours,
 
The Rev'd R E LANGFORD JR, FAPC, ELCA pastor   
! retired !
My clarity of conscience and my purity of heart are undisputed

evidence that my memory is failing me.
         .          .                    

`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸..·´¯`·...¸><(((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.· ><((º>