MARK 7:14-16

[R E LANGFORD JR]

Greetings All!

This is an edited and revised bible study
done Maundy Thursday, 5 APR 2012. It
covers MARK 7:14-16.
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1revd:	*MSG* 1:30 P,M,.
precious:	*JOIN* Entered room.
coffeebot:	*MSG* precious Welcome to The Coffee Shop, we are glad you could come.
coffeebot:	*MSG* 4Administrator: precious. Type !x to view coffeebot's Control Panel.
1revd:	*MSG* wb precious
joegabe1:	*MSG* Dear Lord,
joegabe1:	*MSG* We need to study and leanr your great
joegabe1:	*MSG* teaching. Which we have done. As we go on
joegabe1:	*MSG* with our weeek, can you keep us all safe
joegabe1:	*MSG* and healthy. It is necessary for us to learn
joegabe1:	*MSG* the bible, as we are clearly living in the
joegabe1:	*MSG* last days and the government and the people
joegabe1:	*MSG* are trying to take you out of the mainstream
joegabe1:	*MSG* of life. I pray that never ever happys cause
joegabe1:	*MSG* we need you more and more in our last day.
joegabe1:	*MSG* Please remember pk's dad and luna as they are sick lord.
joegabe1:	*MSG* We ask all of this in Jesus holy name
joegabe1:	*MSG* Amen
1revd:	*MSG* Amen.
precious:	*MSG* amen
1revd:	*MSG* On 17 JUNE 2011, I presented MARK 7:14-16 as a bible study experiment for Christian Friendship chatroom @ Talk City, now edited and revised for Royal Family Coffee chatroom for Maundy Thursday (as I have a prior commitment for Good Friday) @ 1:30 P.M., (edt) 5APR12.
1revd:	*MSG* Joegabe, would you please post MARK 7:14-16?
joegabe1:	*MSG* Mark 7:14-16
joegabe1:	*MSG* New King James Version (NKJV)
joegabe1:	*MSG*
joegabe1:	*MSG* 14 When He had called all the multitude to Himself, He said to them, ???Hear Me, everyone, and understand: 15 There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man. 16 If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!???[a]
1revd:	*MSG* We remember that a "???" stands for a quotation mark; yes?
joegabe1:	*MSG* yes
1revd:	*MSG* grand
1revd:	*MSG* It appears that last week's experiment, while it provoked no generally helpful criticism, did not seem to trigger antagonism either. Let us continue this experiment for a 2nd week eventhough it is offered a day "early."
1revd:	*MSG* Some time ago, as we looked at MARK 1:1, I put a question to those reading and studying. It was: 'How do you understand the phrase: "the beginning of the gospel. . . "?' There were, as one might guess, a variety of answers.
1revd:	*MSG* Later, when there tended to be more Q&A in the chatroom, someone asked, "What are we to learn from this?" I have to admit I did not understand the question. I'd presumed that my initial explanation of what's going on in the Gospel according to Mark was adequate, from the perspective of this bible study. Perhaps I was in error?
1revd:	*MSG* I can think of no more suitable way to prepare for Resurrection Sunday than to read Mark's gospel tale. Later, when there tended to be more Q&A in the chatroom, someone asked, "What are we to learn from this?" I have to admit I did not understand the question. I'd presumed that my initial explanation of what's going on in the Gospel according to Mark was adequate, from the perspective of this bible study. Perhaps I was in error?
1revd:	*MSG* Let me ask all who take part in this bible study to read, again, the Gospel according to Mark! It is a short tale. It will not take you long to read it, as folks say, through and through. Even better yet, if you have a good friend or family member willing to work with you, have them share with you the effort to read it aloud. Saint Paul tells us that faith comes through hearing; this is why I urge you to listen, again, to the tale by Mark.
1revd:	*MSG* It will be a good preparation for Easter this year. Those who use the ecumenical three year revised common lectionary know that this is the year to read in MARK.
1revd:	*MSG* Again, I admit that I thought I'd indicated that I agree with Saint Paul, and faith comes through hearing God's Word to us as it is in Jesus, God's Messiah. I had written, "Suppose, if you were writing a short story, and MARK is short, and it was about a chief character and assorted other characters, and no one had written on this design previously . . . , and suppose you wished to make your story such that those who heard it would become convinced it simply had to be told to everyone, it was such good news . . . ; then, couldn't it be the case that by putting "the beginning of the good news" at the front of his story . . . , (the author) is telling us as listeners (readers) that we need to get into his tale in order to grasp and hold whatever benefit will come?"
1revd:	*MSG* It will be good to hear MARK again!
1revd:	*MSG* The reason I rehearse this again is that I am convinced that we cannot gather to ourselves the full flavor or taste of this "good news" unless we are thoroughly invested in the hearing of the tale. I furthermore believe that by striving to hear it as a "brand new" tale, told just for us, we find ourselves in the position of first century listeners.
1revd:	*MSG* This is amazingly difficult, at least for me, as none of us in the USA have lived under the thumb, so to say, of an alien dictatorship -- in Jesus' case, Rome. Secondly, none of us in this contemporary era lives under the thumb, so to say, of a corrupt "state church" -- in Jesus' case, the temple's administrators, the chief priests and the Sadduces (both of whom were in league with the Romans and their puppet Herod). Thirdly, none of us today lives under the thumb, so to say, or an upstart, Quisling, imposed dictatorship / monarchy -- in Jesus' case, the clique formed around the descendants of Herod: Phillip and Antipas. The technical term for this feature of translation or interpretation is "sitz im leben," from the German for "situation in life" of the chief character(s), the context of the tale.
1revd:	*MSG* So far, so good?
1revd:	*MSG* So, let me rehearse and clarify: #1, this is the first time that the tale has been told to you . . . , (some of us may have hard work to make the leap in remembering when it was we heard MARK for the first time).
1revd:	*MSG* #2, this tale goes on, and resounds in the lives of the hearers (listeners or readers) even when the first telling is over . . . , IMO, just as Jesus and his faithful disciple Mark intended.
1revd:	*MSG* #3, this story is not about (as one more modern translation puts it) Jesus, though prima facie it is ABOUT Jesus. This tale is rather the beginning of His impact on the lives of those who hear the tale of His good news about His Father and the kingdom. In that sense, it is about the fact that the one true God is breaking into this dark world, beginning in Jesus, in such a way that the rule of God, the kingdom of God, comes on earth as it already is in heaven. This kingdom comes suddenly, stealthily, surprisingly, and with amazing force -- not just in the lives, the hearts and minds of individual believers, but also in their religious practices and behaviors, and every other aspect of their public lives.
1revd:	*MSG* #4, (the author) wrote his tale (after telling it fairly often) to begin at what he considers the beginning of the good news OF Jesus, that is, not good news ABOUT Jesus (though of course that will happen, both in the tale and in the lives of those who hear it). We listen to hear the good news OF Jesus because it is the gospel of Jesus about what Jesus considers important. I concluded by promoting the view that: BTW, there may be more than 4 possible implications that I've noted here. There's some scholarly debate about such things. Thus far, no one has promoted a different perspective. If I'm not careful, I'll end up thinking my view is the only correct one.
1revd:	*MSG* I trust we can all agree that this last POV would be not just dangerous but silly also.
1revd:	*MSG* Yes?
precious:	*MSG* yes
1revd:	*MSG* grand
1revd:	*MSG* Today, I am hoping to address MARK 7:14-16. There is a major problem with the redaction of the tale at this point. In fact, the NIV (which many regard as modestly competent as a translation) omits vv. 16. In essence, when push comes to shove, do we focus on the earliest manuscripts which do not include this verse? Or, do we opt for what seems to be an inclusion by some later scribe(s), copiest(s), who may simply have copied 4:9, or 4:23, since this verse seems to be a favorite verbal 'condiment' in the speech patterns of Jesus?
1revd:	*MSG* Then again, whichever option we choose there remains the question, "Did Jesus toss in this remark himself, and Mark chose to ignore it here; or then again, if Jesus did not say it, does that change what is his "verdict" in MARK 7:14-15? Does this spicy remark change the verdict; I encourage you to ponder this question! If it does change, tell us how. If it doesn't change, tell us why.
1revd:	*MSG* I'll look for comments next time around.
precious:	*MSG* ok
1revd:	*MSG* Here is the NIV, 1984 quote, and footnote, joegabe 1 showed us there was a footnote, but not what it was. '14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.[a]' FOOTNOTE [a]: some early manuscripts have 'unclean.' and immediately include V. 16 If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."
joegabe1:	*PART* Left room.
joegabe1:	*JOIN* Entered room.
coffeebot:	*MSG* joegabe1 Welcome to The Coffee Shop, we are glad you could come.
coffeebot:	*MSG* 4Administrator: joegabe1. Type !x to view coffeebot's Control Panel.
precious:	*MSG* wb
1revd:	*MSG* wb joegabe1
joegabe1:	*MSG* ty
1revd:	*MSG* Some folks will tell you that Jesus is hereby setting aside the entire law of Moses. I don't believe that! What he is doing is causing people to focus on the INTENT of what Moses handed down, IMO. This will come forth even more clearly when we get into the question of being physically unclean versus unclean with respect to the rule of God, as the Lord Jesus himself teaches in the next few verses.
1revd:	*MSG* I put it to you that Jesus is taking on the whole Jewish cultural means of distinguishing themselves as descendents of Abraham from the defiled or 'unclean' Gentile populations (tribes) around them.
1revd:	*MSG* This KOSHER marking is a social device that had worked well until Jesus' time, and for some Jewish people continues to work in the present day to set the Hebrew people apart from other people. Cultural identity in a minority people, and to some extent marginalized people, had become critically important with pagan Romans and Greeks in every town or village of any size. Even Moses recognized that before the issue became important upon entry into the land of promise! Yet, even so, KOSHER rules are all subject to corruption and mis-interpretation.
1revd:	*MSG* Do please reread Mark's account, with special focus on the remaining verses of this extended cameo: MARK 7:17-23.
1revd:	*MSG* Preferably, re-read the entire gospel. Or, better yet, have some friend or family member help you with reading the whole tale aloud. That's good preparation for or getting the heart ready to receive the faith that the Holy Spirit wishes to plant in us.
1revd:	*MSG* This segment was clearly understood by Saint Paul, for he writes about it, and uses it as a principle for sharing good news with gentiles "outside" the law. I write it again! The issue is not what you eat which passes through your mouth and intestinal system, eventually ending in a cess pit or sanitary sewer.
1revd:	*MSG* No! The real issue is your INTENT in eating whatever you eat, and how it influences your relationship with other people with respect to the rule of God in the here and now. More, much more on this next time!
1revd:	*MSG* This is an incredibly simple point, but it illustrates how Jesus was taking on the whole cultural, political, economic, social, and religious system of the Jewish people of his day. They were looking for a messiah to be sure, but they were NOT looking for a messiah who would overturn several systems all at the same time. Furthermore, this is not just an attack on personal or private religious expression, but a direct attack on public behavior as well.
1revd:	*MSG* In this respect I feel mild pity for people who think Christianity is a matter solely of an individual's heart and mind.
1revd:	*MSG* They miss how Jesus confronts the way a society as a whole must change. If people are tired of despots, inequitable rules, corruption in government, in the churches, unfair labor and financial practices, and a whole army of other injustices, then they might want to be careful of asking the LORD God Almighty to step in and take charge. What Jesus does, acting so to say as the C.E.O. of God, is to attack the society at its roots.
Gilligan8:	*JOIN* Entered room.
coffeebot:	*MSG* Gilligan8 Welcome to The Coffee Shop, we are glad you could come.
Gilligan8:	*PART* Left room.
Gilligan8:	*JOIN* Entered room.
coffeebot:	*MSG* Gilligan8 Welcome to The Coffee Shop, we are glad you could come.
1revd:	*MSG* In our country, the USA, the founding authors of the constitution and bill or rights understood this. The congress may not establish, in public, any religion. The congress may also not hamper the free expression, in public, of any religion. This is not merely a matter solely of this or that individual's heart and mind. It's not just about private worship! It has to do with how groups of persons, tribes and nations, will behave toward one another. All this is hidden in the attack on the kosher rules by Jesus.
precious:	*MSG* hi gilligan
precious:	*MSG* welcome to bible study
Gilligan8:	*MSG* hello
Gilligan8:	*MSG* thanx
Gilligan8:	*MSG* whats happning?
joegabe1:	*MSG* shhhhh
joegabe1:	*MSG* study in porogress
1revd:	*MSG* I'll write it again!
1revd:	*MSG* No! The real issue is your intent in eating whatever you eat, and how it influences your relationship with other people with respect to the rule of God in the here and now. More, much more on this next time!
Gilligan8:	*MSG* u napping joe?
1revd:	*MSG* hi gilligan
1revd:	*MSG* That will have to be it, joegabe, for today. Will you lead us in prayer?
joegabe1:	*MSG* carry on 1revd
joegabe1:	*MSG* ok
1revd:	*MSG* ok?
joegabe1:	*MSG* Dear Lord
joegabe1:	*MSG* Please bless us as we go toward our week
joegabe1:	*MSG* until the next study
joegabe1:	*MSG* remember the people that are ill lord
joegabe1:	*MSG* pk's dad, luna and anyone else that i may have missed
joegabe1:	*MSG* we ask this in jesus holy name
joegabe1:	*MSG* amen
1revd:	*MSG* Amen.
joegabe1:	*MSG* hi Gilligan8`
Gilligan8:	*MSG* hi joe
1revd:	*MSG* May you all have a blessed and joyous Resurrection Sunday; and good cheer, satisfaction and contentment throughout the 50 days of Easter Season to Pentecost!
joegabe1:	*MSG* i be back in a few
precious:	*MSG* you too rev will miss you till friday
1revd:	*MSG* ty ty
Gilligan8:	*MSG* tomorroe is the day he was nailed to the cross
1revd:	*MSG* we'll be @ our eldest daughter's family for Easter Sunday
precious:	*MSG* we know that gilligan
Gilligan8:	*MSG* if our calender is right
1revd:	*MSG* the calendar is off by about four years
1revd:	*MSG* and several days
Gilligan8:	*MSG* wouldn doubt that
1revd:	*MSG* the big issue is our remembrance and prayer and celebration of what Jesus accomplished on the cross, IMO
precious:	*MSG* amen

--

 

In just a bit, I will try to post the bible study
done this Friday of Easter Week,13 APR 2012.

 

CHRIST IS RISEN!

 

The Rev'd R E LANGFORD JR, FAPC, ELCA pastor  ! retired !
       39.58°N by 75.98°W

My clarity of conscience and my purity of heart are undisputed

evidence that my memory is failing me.        

`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸..·´¯`·...¸ ><(((((º> `·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((º> `·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.· ><((º>