MARK 8:1-10

[R E LANGFORD JR]

Greetings All: CHRIST IS RISEN!
For some reason I was unable to copy, in order to post here, the bible study

session on MARK 8:1-10 as a unit. It was possible for me to copy it it two

parts. As you read along, you will see a "double hyphen  --" near the left margin.

It marks the break in my copy & paste skill set, not a break in the chatroom

narrative. If it is needed, you have my apology ahead of time.
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joegabe1:	*MSG* Dear Heavenly father
joegabe1:	*MSG* At this time we would like to ask you to bless the people that is ailing pk pk's father
joegabe1:	*MSG* and the other people in the chat
joegabe1:	*MSG* also bless the rev as he does the study to retain his intelligence wit and charm
joegabe1:	*MSG* we ask this in jesus name
joegabe1:	*MSG* amen
1revd:	*MSG* Amen.
1revd:	*MSG* You do me a kindness joegabe, to dream I have intelligence or wit or charm is amazing! TY
1revd:	*MSG* CHRIST is risen!
1revd:	*MSG* MARK 8:1-10 Bible Study for Christian Friendship chatroom, session 15 JULY 2011, revised and expanded for Royal Family Coffee Shop chatroom 4 MAY 2012.
1revd:	*MSG* Would you post the bible verses, please?
joegabe1:	*MSG* Jesus Feeds the Four Thousand
joegabe1:	*MSG* 8:1 = During those days another large crowd gathered. Since they had nothing to eat, Jesus called his disciples to him and said, 2 ??? I have compassion for these people; they have already been with me three days and have nothing to eat. 3 If I send them home hungry, they will collapse on the way, because some of them have come a long distance.???
joegabe1:	*MSG*
joegabe1:	*MSG* 4 His disciples answered, ???But where in this remote place can anyone get enough bread to feed them????
joegabe1:	*MSG*
joegabe1:	*MSG* 5 ???How many loaves do you have???? Jesus asked.
joegabe1:	*MSG* ???Seven,??? they replied.
coffeebot:	*MSG* ACTION later folks, heading to Ruth's Chris Steakhouse. I'm hungry too!
1revd:	*MSG* :)
joegabe1:	*MSG* 6 He told the crowd to sit down on the ground. When he had taken the seven loaves and given thanks, he broke them and gave them to his disciples to distribute to the people, and they did so. 7 They had a few small fish as well; he gave thanks for them also and told the disciples to distribute them. 8 The people ate and were satisfied. Afterward the disciples picked up seven basketfuls of broken
joegabe1:	*MSG* pieces that were left over. 9 About four thousand were present. After he had sent them away, 10 he got into the boat with his disciples and went to the region of Dalmanutha.
1revd:	*MSG* Many thanks!
joegabe1:	*MSG* yw
1revd:	*MSG* We remember that "???" means a quotation mark, yes?
joegabe1:	*MSG* yes
1revd:	*MSG* Here is the beginning of comments from about a year ago.
1revd:	*MSG* Dear friends, one of the things that bemuse me as I listen to (or read) folks who promote the bible as the sole source of inspiration by the Holy Spirit, or who claim to be guided by the same Holy Spirit, or who claim the bible guides them is an amazing inability some seem to have to qualify and refine the issue with precision. Lutherans suggest 'sola scriptura,' not because it is a neat catch phrase to go with 'sola fide' and 'sola gratia,' or even with 'solus Christus.'
1revd:	*MSG* We strive here to look closely at the gospel according to Mark, and just what Mark wants to tell us as 'sola scriptura.' Rather such a key phrase is a shorthand answer to a more complicated and nuanced inquiry. One does not start with a premise of 'sola scriptura' as though the bible were it. Thus implying that there were no other scriptures that were holy, or worth-while, or useful for guidance, and instruction.
1revd:	*MSG* Heavens! Even the great reformer, Dr. Martin Luther, urged the reading of the Deuterocanonical books as salutary for moral guidance, and meditation. No! Dear friends, 'sola scriptura' is a conclusion, not a premise! It is where a person ends, rather than where one begins.
1revd:	*MSG* Another portion of this issue is the answer to the question, "What then are we to do with other "faith traditions" and their sacred scriptures?" One can broaden the issue by asking, "What? Are you saying that the Holy Spirit is confined to the bible only, or only to legitimate sacred scriptures?
1revd:	*MSG* Do you mean to promote the thought (by such a stance) that the Holy Spirit dare not blow through a college text book, a daily newspaper, or some child's scribblings of his or her daily devotions, or do you? What ever happened to Jesus' remark that the Holy Spirit, full of divine power blows where it chooses and inspires a great variety of thought, meditation, and devotion? What of the scriptural thought that all of creation bears witness to Jesus, the Messiah, as the creator of all that is?
1revd:	*MSG* To respond to such questions is actually very simple, and even more easy. Read them! Yes, with an open mind and heart fully devoted to the Lord Jesus Christ, read. Read the Bhagavad Gita, read the Mahasamghika and the Mulasarvastivada (please forgive the clumsy mis-trans-litteration) of the Buddha.
1revd:	*MSG* Read the Koran, read as many other devotional and philosophical pamphlets, sermons, guides, etc., as you have time to spend. All of them, I put it to you: they are there for your study, reflection, and assessment. Now I shall make a claim.
1revd:	*MSG* I claim here that the prophetic and apostolic texts including the entire Tanakh, as known to the Lord Jesus, and the gospels, epistles, etc., of the canonic "new" testament, will lead you to put your trust with confidence in the God-appointed Vindicator of your trust. This is a huge claim! That is the heart or core interest of the bible: to build faith in the God whom Jesus the Messiah reveals.
1revd:	*MSG* As John the Evangelist writes much later than Mark writes his gospel tale: ". . . these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in his name." [JOHN 20:31] John was fussing about "signs," which were a key issue in the lifetime of the savior. (Made so by the unbelief of the Pharisees and scribes.)
joegabe1:	*PART* Left room.
1revd:	*MSG* This summary by John matches almost word for word the claim of Mark in his very first 'title' verse.
1revd:	*MSG* Here, I take John's point and stretch it. The entire bible is written, from my POV, to lead all persons to have confidence in Jesus, once crucified, (professionally murdered), dead, and buried, and now alive for all eternity as The Risen One. He alone is the chief character of the bible. He is the one toward whom the whole of the Tanakh points; he is the one to whom all the "new" testament intends to bear true and faithful witness.
joegabe1:	*JOIN* Entered room.
coffeebot:	*MSG* joegabe1 Welcome to The Coffee Shop, we are glad you could come.
coffeebot:	*MSG* 4Administrator: joegabe1. Type !x to view coffeebot's Control Panel.
1revd:	*MSG* wb joegabe
1revd:	*MSG* :)
joegabe1:	*MSG* ty
1revd:	*MSG* All other issues aggregated within the bible's pages pale to insignificance compared to the Holy Spirit inspired witness to Jesus as the Messiah of God, and as the Son of God. For me, 'sola scriptura' is a conclusion; it points to the opinion that the entire bible will not lead you astray, but rather to put your trust in the God who is the loving Father of our Lord and Savior Jesus. I pray 'sola scriptura' may become such a rock solid ground of faith for you also.
1revd:	*MSG* I hope this is clear enough?
1revd:	*MSG* Questions? Worries? Doubts?
1revd:	*MSG* OK
1revd:	*MSG* The text is MARK 8:1-10.
1revd:	*MSG* So, let us continue verse by verse as we have been accustomed. Yes? MARK 8:1 "1 During those days another large crowd gathered. They had nothing to eat. So Jesus called for his disciples to come to him. He said," [NIRV] Yes, it may have been easy for a scribal error to enter the picture here. Instead of writing a large crowd, one can dream some over eager scribe invented the whole scene and put in the word "another" to substitute simply for the same scene found in Ch. 6. I don't buy into such silliness.
1revd:	*MSG* Consider the actual words of Jesus a little later on in Mark's tale. He will ask the disciples about two separate and distinct feedings of large crowds. I cannot feature, nor can I fathom, anyone thinking they could get away with a "doubling up" of scenes by putting words into the mouth of Jesus.
1revd:	*MSG* It simply wouldn't fly! There were (a) surely people alive who had been fed; (b) the Master of the disciples was yet expected to return during their lifetimes; (c) even today children who have heard a tale will correct you if you alter even one tiny detail in a tale well known to them; and (d) people who were there would sooner or later be in the audience hearing Mark tell his tale, long before he wrote it down.
1revd:	*MSG* I put it to you that the differences in the details of this pericope are as obvious when compared to the pericope of the feeding of the five thousand as the similarities are.
1revd:	*MSG* Mark writes down his good news tale sometime around the year 70, and Jesus arose @ Jerusalem hardly 40 years earlier.
1revd:	*MSG* Note well: it is because the crowd had nothing to eat that Jesus once again sets the matter before the disciples. After his careful explanation last time, I'm convinced Jesus was very gently checking up on the disciples to see if they would know how to handle this concern. This fits, no matter what translation one chooses to follow for the next verse.
1revd:	*MSG* This is an important point! Jesus does things in the kindgom of God he is initiating here on earth as it is in heaven just the same way he knows God the Father does things and wills to do things. God wanted in the beginning to work with and through people. We botched that up! Now Jesus wants his disciples to be compassionate and to feed the hungry themselves.

 

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1revd:	*MSG* Questions? Doubts? Worries?
joegabe1:	*MSG* no
1revd:	*MSG* good
1revd:	*MSG* MARK 8:2 = 2 "I feel deep concern for these people. They have already been with me three days. They don't have anything to eat." [NIRV] Other translations have it: "I have compassion for these people." I write it again because Jesus has shown compassion to another crowd. That group, in Chapter 6, vv. 34, was comprised mainly of Jews, folk from the NE shore of the Sea of Galilee, perhaps from around Bethsaida, and Jesus had compassion beacuse they were "like sheep without a shepherd." The Jews were God's chosen people without a strong leader and care-giver. Now this crowd is perhaps mostly outsiders, but they are also hungry.
1revd:	*MSG* Now, in the region of the Decapolis, with a mixed group of Jews and Gentiles, Jesus again has compassion on the crowd. This time it is because they had been so long without physical nourishment. They "have nothing to eat," he tells his disciples. The abundantly clear invitation is this time "You do something about it. Feed these hungry people." The disciples have heard this before.
1revd:	*MSG* MARK 8:3 = 3 If I send them away hungry, they will become too weak on their way home. Some of them have come from far away."  Does more need to be said? Is not Jesus totally human? Does not any real man find himself swayed by the desperate need of the poor and hungry? These people are poor and hungry, and had followed for three days finding nourishment and refreshment for heart and mind in what Jesus had been proclaiming about the love of his Father in heaven, indeed his own love for even the neediest of people.
1revd:	*MSG* And what can be more divine? God has love for the poorest, humble, needy people - - - as Jesus himself shows the disciples and us.
1revd:	*MSG* MARK 8:4 = 4 His disciples answered him. "There is nothing here," they said. "Where can anyone get enough bread to feed them?" This shows the disciples were aware of their surroundings: 'there's no corner deli here!' Their question reflects well on them also: they knew they were inadequate to the task. I put it to you that it also reflects a growing awareness of who Jesus is: the "anyone" suggests they knew that Jesus alone could feed the crowd.
1revd:	*MSG* Question? Problem?
joegabe1:	*MSG* no
1revd:	*MSG* good
1revd:	*MSG* Sad to admit it, this interchange may be interpreted less charitably, though it does not demand such a POV. I've read some commentators who construe it that way: The Twelve are amazingly slow learners due to spiritual dullness -- just like myself. Do you suppose that is the reason I find myself so comfortable in their position?
1revd:	*MSG* MARK 8:5 = 5 "How many loaves do you have?" Jesus asked. "Seven," they replied. They're not off the hook! Maybe only Jesus can feed the crowd, but he does it only with what's available for him to work with, yes? Even the Father in heaven prefers to do things this way. Contrary to the POV of so many power-hungry, worldly-wise folk, Jesus (in the precise image of his Father in heaven) prefers to work in and through people who catch on to what compassion and mercy leads one to do.
1revd:	*MSG* Since we humans are sin full and unclean, it is always a struggle for us to be eager to find the compassionate and mercy full course of action. That the baptized are also led, while still sinners, by the Holy Spirit - - - we know that God in Christ Jesus can work his good and gracious will even through us. Think of that!
1revd:	*MSG* MARK 8:6 = 6 He told the crowd to sit down on the ground. He took the seven loaves and gave thanks to God. Then he broke them and gave them to his disciples. They set the loaves down in front of the people. It is yet springtime; there's a plenty of grass. The summer's baking heat has not yet killed off the grass.
1revd:	*MSG* MARK 8:7 = 7 The disciples also had a few small fish. Jesus gave thanks for them too. He told the disciples to pass them around. A 'few' meaning eight? Like the number of people on Noah's Ark, where the word is explained?
1revd:	*MSG*
1revd:	*MSG* whoops, sorry!
1revd:	*MSG* Big deal! Leave it at a few sardines, without quibbling, just enough for a small fish sandwich. The key here is that Jesus told the disciples to share. This tends to reinforce how blockheaded and dull they were with respect to spiritual matters; just like yours truly.
1revd:	*MSG* They do not seem to comprehend the fact that God the Holy Spirit is quite competent to supply everyone's needs both abundantly and generously, but that God prefers to "make do" with what's available. We already have enough food produced on the planet to feed everyone sumptuously. What we don't have, even yet today, is an effective and efficient distribution system!
1revd:	*MSG* MARK 8:8 = 8 The people ate and were satisfied. After that, the disciples picked up seven baskets of leftover pieces. Satiated! Wow! Seven = a perfect number, baskets full of pita bread. Not twelve, as in the twelve tribes of Israel, and the bread that's intended for the children of Israel. Nevertheless, just the right amount of bread for a mixed crowd of Jews and Gentiles in the region of the Decapolis. A 'perfect' amount of bread left over!
1revd:	*MSG* MARK 8:9 = 9 About 4,000 men were there. Jesus sent them away. 4,000: A number easy to estimate, even if you count by 'hands of hands' methods. Try it for yourself! Look at a crowd in an auditorium. Hold up a thumb and count how many heads are obscured by using your right eye alternated with you left eye to look at the area. Then count how many "thumb's worth" there are across the area, and how many "deep" the crowd is from where you're standing. No big deal, again, but a number clearly different from five thousands by a noticeable amount.
1revd:	*MSG* That's one of the things a person learns in seminary:: how to quickly estimate the size of an audience. hehehehehe
1revd:	*MSG* MARK 8:10 = 10 Then he got into a boat with his disciples. He went to the area of Dalmanutha.  Now I am up a tree, my friends. My old wits are not so flexible as to remember where on the map MARK is directing us. Sadly, the commentaries at "BibleGateway" on line do not seem to know with any assurance.
1revd:	*MSG* I've no doubt, however, that Mark's auditors knew precisely where 'Dalmanutha' was. My guess is that it is on the opposite side of the lake. What fun! Maybe next time I shall have been permitted to root in the storage room we rent and bring home an atlas? It hasn't happened in almost a whole year. Has anyone else discovered 'Dalmanutha' location?
1revd:	*MSG* no? Maybe I will be permitted to rummage among my books yet!
1revd:	*MSG* It seems to me as if this is but one cameo or episode in a kind of "Perils of Pauline" drama, twenty centuries early. Here ends the bible study for today. Perhaps I ought mention that the bible quotes for each verse were from the New International Reader's Version (NIRV)?
joegabe1:	*MSG* Dalmanutha is the unknown destination of Jesus on the shores of the Sea of Gallilee after he fed the four thousand, as recorded in Mark's gospel, (Mark 8:10). It is sometimes believed to be in the vicinity of Magdala, the alleged home town of Mary Magdalene, since the parallel passage in Matthew's gospel, Matthew 15:39, refers instead to "Magadan", which has been taken to be a variant form of
joegabe1:	*MSG* "Magdala".
1revd:	*MSG* Many thanks, joegabe! Even the professional interpreters do not know where 'Dalmanutha' is located. I do not feel so bad!
1revd:	*MSG* TY
joegabe1:	*MSG* yw
1revd:	*MSG* It seems to me as if this is but one cameo or episode in a kind of "Perils of Pauline" drama, twenty centuries early. Here ends the bible study for today. Perhaps I ought mention that the bible quotes for each verse I presented were from the New International Reader's Version (NIRV)?
1revd:	*MSG* Well, that's enough for today.
1revd:	*MSG* Would you please lead us in a closing prayer, Joegabe?
joegabe1:	*MSG* Dear God
joegabe1:	*MSG* We give you thanks for all you do and all you are going to do for us
joegabe1:	*MSG* we would like to do more to show you we deserve your graces but we have to learn to humble ourselves
joegabe1:	*MSG* there are too many of us that think we are more important than you and we do not need you
joegabe1:	*MSG* that is where we are wrong lord
joegabe1:	*MSG* smack us in the head and give us sense
1revd:	*MSG* :)
joegabe1:	*MSG* we ask this in jesus holy name
joegabe1:	*MSG* amen

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How refreshing! a layman who writes the veritable words that fit with what a

pastor is so often too polite (or too fearful for his livelihood) to say aloud. I have
to add my own "amen." to that prayer joegabe1! I do surely need some sense

just for myself. Amen.

The Rev'd R E LANGFORD JR, FAPC, ELCA pastor  ! retired !
       39.58°N by 75.98°W

My clarity of conscience and my purity of heart are undisputed

evidence that my memory is failing me.        

`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸..·´¯`·...¸ ><(((((º> `·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((º> `·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.· ><((º>