getting the right flow and e step calibration

[Dan Saroussi]

hello there 
im using pulsar extruder with 5mm nozzle.
in trying to get to the pefect flow and nice and solid layers.

the guide you have in the documantation really confused me, ill appriciate if there any way to explain it more simply.

like i said im using:

5mm nozzle 

7mm line width

3mm layer hight

slicer material multiplier -1

duet config file step per mm 285

materials

-rPETG by reflow 2.85 cylinders

-rPLA by reflow 1.75 cylinders

-rPLA by reflow sphericalq\ flat disc im not sure.

thanks a lot for your help

Dan

[Technical Support]

Hello Dan,

Whether you decide to calibrate the steps per mm in the firmware or the flow percentage (or material multiplier in your case) in the slicer is up to your preference and the result will be the same.

To calibrate we print a simple object like a cube in vase mode so there is a single shell.

We ignore the first layers as these can be affected by bed adhesion, warping and bed leveling.

We only need a few layers in height printed, about at least 10 or so. We measure the actual layer width printed and compare it to the layer width asked in the slicer.

With those values we can calculate the ratio of layer width printed vs asked.

Example: We set the layer width to 4.5mm in the slicer and we actually obtained 5mm, 4.5/5=0.9.

With this ratio we can determine the new steps per mm or flow % to set.

Example: The steps per mm were 800 so the new updated steps are 720.

Alternatively we can keep the steps at 800 and change the flow percentage in the slicer instead, in the same example if the slicer percentage was at 100%, the new value is 100*0.9=90%.

Example 2: Asked layer width: 4.5mm, Actual layer width: 4.2mm, Steps per mm: 720, Flow %: 90%.

Ratio to update values with: 4.5/4.2=1.071
New steps per mm: 720*1.071=771.12 or new flow %: 96.39%

We repeat this process as much as needed until we obtain a satisfying result for our purposes and how tight tolerances need to be for our project.

In your case it is a multiplier to 1 and not a percentage so for example 96.39% would be a 0.9639 multiplier.

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[Dan Saroussi]

hey hey 

thanks a lot for you answer, will do that.

i have two more questions,

when i print this cube for example, i get a really bad corners, it happanes to me with a lot of my prints when it gets to some kind of corners.

i attahched some examples

it happens the most wit rPETG.

i tried to print in 4 mm per sec and no cooling system and it got better but i think its weird to go so slow.

i general what is your recomended cooliing way with rPETG 

also attachem a cooling system i upgraded in my printer

thanks for yoour help

Dan

[Dan Saroussi]

i will add another note that im using orca slicer, when im using prusa slicer this isuues are much less happans...
but i need to use orca,  so i thoght maybe its something with pressure advace?

[Technical Support]

Hello Dan,

We noticed that with pellet extrusion, some materials and especially PETG suffer some "reactivity" problems when the extruder decelerates and accelerates in succession like in the corners.

This problem doesn't happen with all materials but some are more sensitive to this than others like PETG, PC and PMMA.

In our tests we found best to deactivate pressure advance for this corner problem so I would advise to do so at first and to only test pressure advance values once the problem is mitigated.

What helped in this case and the most critical factor is your extrusion line geometry, a rough rule of thumb is to print a layer height close to the nozzle diameter and a layer width of around 1.5x the nozzle diameter.

So for a 5mm nozzle like you use, try a layer width of 7.5mm and a layer height of 5mm (speed might need to be reduced to keep up with the increased flow rate).

If that solves your problem and you need to print a layer width of 5mm, use a 3mm nozzle if you have one.

[Dan Saroussi]

Alright! I’ll give it a try, I’m afraid that 5 mm layer hight might be a challenge for the colling system… 

Also it’ll make it harder in bridges.. no? 

I found my wall with petg to be wiggle and not a solid line. Like the flow is not consistent..

Any suggestions? 

Thanks for the feedbacks 

Dan 

[Technical Support]

And for the cooling, it is best to test without any part cooling first as PETG can be sensitive to cooling.

Test without part cooling and without pressure advance with the recommended line geometry first to see if that solves the problem, then iterate with part cooling and pressure advance separately and one setting at a time to see if that helps or not.

[Dan Saroussi]

Alright! I’ll give it a try, I’m afraid that 5 mm layer hight might be a challenge for the colling system… 

Also it’ll make it harder in bridges.. no? 

I found my wall with petg to be wiggle and not a solid line. Like the flow is not consistent..

Any suggestions? 

Thanks for the feedbacks 

[Technical Support]

For the inconsistent flow, if the wiggly line is during acceleration or acceleration that would be related to the reactivity problem previously mentioned.

If the problem is always at the same place in your print, that would be a good indicator.

For the cooling and increased layer height that would indeed be more challenging but here we just want to test if the layer geometry given the nozzle size is the problem or not.

In short, we want to walk first before running, so let's fix the simpler prints before testing more complicated ones.

[Brandon Williams]

Can we be unsubscribed from this chain, please?

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From: Technical Support <sup...@dyzedesign.com>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 12:55:35 PM
To: Dan Saroussi <saro...@gmail.com>
Cc: Technical Support <sup...@dyzedesign.com>; DYZE DESIGN <support-d...@dyzedesign.com>
Subject: Re: getting the right flow and e step calibration

 

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[Dan Saroussi]

hey guys
so after some work here im able to work prety good with all the material
i still have a small problem that its a bit difficult for me to fix

when im printing petg (vergin & recycled) i cant get a smoth and solid feel from the layers.
i attached pics of it

for example when i print wood filled pla or just pla (colored) i get a fine layer after layer and the fill in solid 
when i use petg it becom woobly.

maybe is the screw im using? maybe temp? flow? 

thanks for the help

dan

[Technical Support]

Hello Dan,

It could be several things, for PETG and rPETG we indeed recommend the minimal compression ratio screw of 1.5 for more consistent results.

It could also be:

- temperature: test several temperatures for the 3 heat zones independently from each other, especially the top and middle heaters. Test increments one at a time to see if that makes a difference. A lower or higher temperature might be needed. Generally we want the lowest possible to keep with the flow on the top heater, so start with raising or lowering the middle one first.

- cooling: it might be that the material is still too hot to keep its shape so cooling may need to be increased to keep up with the printing speed.

- flow % that needs to be increased

[Dan Saroussi]

thanks ill try it out

any recommended temp? 

[Technical Support]

For rPETG 190:210:210 (top:mid:temp) °C

For PETG that varies widely between brands but usually around 240:260:260 ­°C (+/- 20°C given the brand)

[Dan Saroussi]

Awesome, thanks! 

will let you know soon on the results

[Dan Saroussi]

hey guys
after trying playing with speed , temperture , layer hights and flow, i cant get the walls to be even amd the flow to be consistent.
can you advise me waht i can do?

thanks 

dan

[Technical Support]

Changing to another compression ratio might be needed for this material if you have exhausted all other options and settings.

With some materials the quantity of material extruded vs screw rotation speed is not a linear ratio, that means when the screw turns faster or slower in the same print it results in over ou under extrusion so you also need to change the flow % and slicers are not well adapted for this yet. Look for areas of your print where the extruder decelerates and accelerates successively, if the print defects are there, this might be the issue.

If the extrusion is also squiggly in vase or spiral mode where the speed is always constant, that means that it is more likely a compression ratio issue.

[Dan Saroussi]

hii

thanks for your tips

I do see something weird in the g code.
The e value in each section of the layer slightly goes up and down with no geometric reason.
I tried to change it manually and it looks better. Is there a way to force the extruder to be solid and constant?

thanks

[Technical Support]

Hello Dan,

Thank you for the additional information.

Regarding the fluctuating E values in your G-code, it's important to note that the E value represents the length of filament extruded. Therefore, it's normal for the E value to change throughout the G-code, as it's directly tied to the geometry of your 3D model.

Variations in the E value within a layer could be due to slight inconsistencies in the 3D model itself. You could try using a different slicer or experimenting with different line profiles within your slicer to see if that improves the consistency of the E values.

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Best regards,

Andy (Andréanne Poulin - She / Her ) Support Team
	100-1505 Saint-Thomas

Lemoyne, Quebec, Canada, J4P 3S2

dyzedesign.com

[Dan Saroussi]

hello there
unfortenetly, things are still nor so well

im now using petg 1013 from polymaker
they told me that dyze has the right information for printing this material
tempertures, volumetric speed, printing speed, line width and line hight (im using 5 mm nozzle with standard screw)

will appreciate your help getting this info 

thanks 

dan

[Technical Support]

Hi Dan!

Here’s what we recommend for the best quality using 1013 PETG:

• We used a 3mm nozzle:
• Line geometry: 4mm wide × 1.5mm high (4mm × 2mm worked but had lower quality)
• Retraction:
• Distance: 6mm
• Speed: 25mm/s (doubling had no impact)
• Retraction Prime: 30mm³ (pushes extra material at the start of a new line)
• ZHop: Keep very slow (<2mm/s) to prevent dragging material
• Outer Wall & End Speeds:
• Start speed ratio: 10%
• Start acceleration: 10mm/s²
• End speed ratio: 1%
• End deceleration: 5mm/s²
• Coasting:
• Volume: 12mm³ (uses residual flow at the end of a line to prevent over-extrusion)
• Print Speed: 30–50mm/s
• Temperatures: 200°C (3 heat zones)

I would also suggest configuring a wipe distance of at least 2 times the nozzle size.

With the 5mm nozzle, it's very hard to get highly detailed prints. It's mostly used for parts that will later be machined. The 3mm nozzle is a good compromise.

I hope it helps!

Andy (Andréanne Poulin - She / Her ) Support Team
	100-1505 Saint-Thomas Lemoyne, Quebec, Canada, J4P 3S2
	dyzedesign.com