Stripping filament -

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Brent Davison

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Oct 26, 2021, 8:25:45 AM10/26/21
to DYZE DESIGN
 So I have tried all kinds of hot ends and extruders, we are running a Modix Big 60 
machine with 
- Dyze Pro extruder 
 - Pro hot end. 
 - Liquid cooled hot end and motors 
           in chambered printer. 
Still having filament stripping problems, 
  - ABS - push plastic 
  - chamber temp set at 60c
  - extruder temp @ 250c
  - bed set at 120c
  - retraction .5mm RVL .4mm RSpd 25mm/s
  - 4mm nozzle @.25mm Layer height 
  - speed I was running at 130mm/s now 100mm/s
  - 3kg spool in  polybox, clean clear, low turns, big radius path 
I ran these settings 24/7 for months no problems or issues 
about a month ago I would start a print and it would strip the filament at 
3-4mm layer height into the print, sliced the print up off the bed surface to give 
it a even support structure under it  and lowered the print speed to 100mm/s 
   I broke the print down into smaller parts and could complete the print. 
But I am still having problems with stripping. even on first layer, 3/5mm up the print, 
and up to 12mm the other day. 

I am at a loss on what to do next. 

I can't get the dyze speed caluclator to do anything but PLA, is that all it does or is it 
working, I have tried it on other browsers also. 

Thanks 
Brent 







Technical Support

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Oct 26, 2021, 8:40:04 AM10/26/21
to BRENT DAVISON, DYZE DESIGN
Hi Brent,

To be honest, the speed you are currently running is very close to our maximum flow (~16mm^3/s). It's highly possible that the nozzle has some debris stuck in the molten path and gives just a little bit of restriction, explaining why you need to reduce the speed.
If the extruder is stripping the filament, the pressure at the nozzle is too high. The solution is to go slower.

Sorry about the calculator, we are working on getting the info for more polymers, but it is a very long process!
Phil
Support Team

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Patrick Emerick

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Oct 26, 2021, 9:34:28 AM10/26/21
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Hi Brent,

I'm using a water cooled Pro extruder and hotend in direct drive configuration. Any time I've had problems with extrusion that show early in the print, I've traced it to a chamber temperature that is too close to the material Tg. This causes the material to soften and slip more easily in the extruder. Unfortunately the cold plate for the motor doesn't pull much heat away from the extrusion gear block, so the gears are relatively close in temperature to the chamber temperature. I've proven this concept by printing a mid-range Tg material like ABS or PETG at a specific chamber temperature (ie 60C or 40C respectively) and the print fails due to under-extrusion early in the process (ie <10mm height). Then with the same chamber temperature and same model I print using a higher Tg material like PC or HT Nylon without any issues. The problem with ABS is that it likes a warm environment to prevent warping, but the elevated chamber temperature softens the material. To make it worse even a small change in moisture in the filament will change the Tg which could be why it worked for you for a while and then changed suddenly. This problem is definitely more exaggerated at higher extrusion rates due to the additional force required to push the filament.

I think the Dyze Extuder would be ideal if it had a cold plate between the motor and extrusion gear block like the e3d Titan Aqua. The problem with the titan is that the extrusion gears don't grip the filament as well regardless of temperature, so the better cooling design doesn't really provide much benefit IMO. In a heated chamber with direct drive extruders I think that thoroughly cooling the entire extrusion train is the best way to achieve repeatable results.

Technical Support

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Oct 27, 2021, 8:48:47 AM10/27/21
to Patrick Emerick, DYZE DESIGN, DYZE DESIGN, br...@sculptgarage.com
Very interesting feedback, Patrick! Thanks for sharing. I think it could be interesting putting a 2nd cooling block on the fron (the hole pattern is the same) or test it on the front rather than on the back. We haven't tested it as our initial goal was to protect the motor above all. 

Brent, you can increase the hotend temperature if you don't have too much oozing. Usually, from 5°C to 20°C can greatly benefit the maximum printing speed.

Phil
Support Team

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100-1505 Saint-Thomas
Lemoyne, Quebec, Canada, J4P 3S2
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Brent Davison

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Mar 15, 2022, 1:52:31 PM3/15/22
to DYZE DESIGN, DYZE DESIGN, DYZE DESIGN, Brent Davison, Patrick Emerick
  I am having this problem again. 
I just got done doing the duet 2 wifi 3.3 update and 
am having this fillament cloging issue down in the heat break. 
  I have done everything I know of to do. even swaping nozzles and 
heatbreaks. 
  I re-read Patricks response and even went as far as to move my secound 
extruder cooling system over to the front of my main extruder. 

IMG_5717.jpg

Patrick Emerick

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Mar 15, 2022, 3:29:55 PM3/15/22
to Brent Davison, DYZE DESIGN, DYZE DESIGN
Brent, 

Have you considered that it could be the filament? I've never had this problem after switching to water cooling and I'm only cooling the motor. I only use 3DXTech materials. I reread your original post and it seems like nothing in your setup changed when you started having problems. Did the filament spool change? Do you heat dry your filament when you open it before putting it in the dry box? I find that not heat drying a new spool leaves too much moisture in the filament.
Does it clog while printing or after sitting idle at printing temperature? I don't even have to reduce idle temperature when I'm using dual extruders after switching to water cooling.
Is the filament getting caught up somewhere else in the system and making it seem like a clog? 

I only heat my chamber to 45C maximum so maybe that is the difference.

Your setup looks really cool!

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