Why Dart if there is already...
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daslicht
Jan 9, 2012, 9:10:25 AM1/9/12
to General Dart Discussion
Why is Dart being developed instead of using a mature language like
AS3 ?
Just create open source VM and include it as part of all browsers or
create a full blown AS3 -? JS compiler as Jangaroo or Haxe is working
on?
AS3 ?
Just create open source VM and include it as part of all browsers or
create a full blown AS3 -? JS compiler as Jangaroo or Haxe is working
on?
Brook Monroe
Jan 10, 2012, 6:45:27 AM1/10/12
to General Dart Discussion
(Not speaking for the Dart Team--just my 0.02USD on the topic.)
AS3 shows its design heritage as a dialect of JS; it falls prey to the
same difficulties JS experiences with large-scale development. Dart
wants to move beyond the operational theater of JS into an environment
where multiple applications don't step on each other. It wants to be
a language and environment in which medium- to large-scale development
is easier than with JS. AS3 steps in that direction, but which way is
it facing? To me it looks like it's walking in backwards.
AS3 was designed to drive Flash apps. With HTML5 browsers in the
marketplace Flash is dead on its feet right now, but hasn't yet had
the sense to lie down and stop breathing. (Team Flash will no doubt
leap in to disagree. Leap away.)
There's no reason that Dart shouldn't be attempted. (After all, you
could easily ask why not just crank up the jam on a new version of
VBScript. There's any number of languages that could fill in the
blank.) The Dart team suggests that JS, and JS-derived languages, are
too broken from a base design standpoint to be repaired; at least, if
you'd have to wait 3-4 years for the browser world to encompass JS
Elite, it would be just as efficacious to design and implement a
language from the ground up that takes into account all the problems
encountered in previous attempts.
We already had C--why did we need C++?
We already had C++--why did we need Java?
We already had Java--why did we need C#?
We already had COBOL....
AS3 shows its design heritage as a dialect of JS; it falls prey to the
same difficulties JS experiences with large-scale development. Dart
wants to move beyond the operational theater of JS into an environment
where multiple applications don't step on each other. It wants to be
a language and environment in which medium- to large-scale development
is easier than with JS. AS3 steps in that direction, but which way is
it facing? To me it looks like it's walking in backwards.
AS3 was designed to drive Flash apps. With HTML5 browsers in the
marketplace Flash is dead on its feet right now, but hasn't yet had
the sense to lie down and stop breathing. (Team Flash will no doubt
leap in to disagree. Leap away.)
There's no reason that Dart shouldn't be attempted. (After all, you
could easily ask why not just crank up the jam on a new version of
VBScript. There's any number of languages that could fill in the
blank.) The Dart team suggests that JS, and JS-derived languages, are
too broken from a base design standpoint to be repaired; at least, if
you'd have to wait 3-4 years for the browser world to encompass JS
Elite, it would be just as efficacious to design and implement a
language from the ground up that takes into account all the problems
encountered in previous attempts.
We already had C--why did we need C++?
We already had C++--why did we need Java?
We already had Java--why did we need C#?
We already had COBOL....
Dmitry Dementev
Jan 10, 2012, 7:46:32 AM1/10/12
to Brook Monroe, General Dart Discussion
Brook Monroe, go away and take away with them as3. as3 implementation very bad, browsers kill himself with flash platform and many many other examples. flash must die.
Dmitry Dementev
Jan 10, 2012, 8:04:46 AM1/10/12
to Brook Monroe, General Dart Discussion
Easier to build something new than remodel (reimplement) finished. Well that such processes occur.
Switch your brain from as3 to dart and be happy. :)
Dmitry Dementev
Jan 10, 2012, 8:13:45 AM1/10/12
to Brook Monroe, General Dart Discussion
In the case of language dart, not to say that this is something totally new, it isdevelopments that took place many years. javascript, gwt, clojure, closure ... v8, dart-vm.
Brook Monroe
Jan 10, 2012, 8:15:23 AM1/10/12
to General Dart Discussion
Since I'm in favor of Dart, why would I go away? Did you mean to
admonish daslicht?
On Jan 10, 7:46 am, Dmitry Dementev <fwebstu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Brook Monroe, go away and take away with them as3. as3 implementation very
> bad, browsers kill himself with flash platform and many many other
> examples. flash must die.
>
admonish daslicht?
On Jan 10, 7:46 am, Dmitry Dementev <fwebstu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Brook Monroe, go away and take away with them as3. as3 implementation very
> bad, browsers kill himself with flash platform and many many other
> examples. flash must die.
>
Dmitry Dementev
Jan 10, 2012, 8:23:16 AM1/10/12
to Brook Monroe, General Dart Discussion
see above :)
Brook Monroe
Jan 10, 2012, 8:58:21 AM1/10/12
to General Dart Discussion
Sorry, still not following.
Dmitry Dementev
Jan 10, 2012, 11:21:12 AM1/10/12
to Brook Monroe, General Dart Discussion
yes, daslight :)
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 5:58 PM, Brook Monroe <brook....@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry, still not following.
daslicht
Jan 10, 2012, 3:05:05 PM1/10/12
to General Dart Discussion
Anything good, i was just curiuos since as3 is much more advanced than
js, real oop, mature.
The "memory" issues u are refering to is up to the developer.
I open to anything which is better than JS so Dart is welcome.
Whats the best way to talk to server side technology ? RPC ?
Something like AMF isnt out there yet, no?
js, real oop, mature.
The "memory" issues u are refering to is up to the developer.
I open to anything which is better than JS so Dart is welcome.
Whats the best way to talk to server side technology ? RPC ?
Something like AMF isnt out there yet, no?
Bob Nystrom
Jan 10, 2012, 3:32:57 PM1/10/12
to daslicht, General Dart Discussion
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 12:05 PM, daslicht <ans...@googlemail.com> wrote:
Whats the best way to talk to server side technology ? RPC ?
Something like AMF isnt out there yet, no?
I think right now the main way is just plain AJAX XMLHttpRequest calls like you'd do in JS, but I could be wrong.
- bob
Gilad Bracha
Jan 10, 2012, 3:40:54 PM1/10/12
to Bob Nystrom, daslicht, General Dart Discussion
The plan is to use isolates and message passing. We're not there yet, but you should not have to deal with low-level mechanics in the long run.--
Cheers, Gilad
Cheers, Gilad
jesse rose
Jan 10, 2012, 10:00:18 PM1/10/12
to General Dart Discussion
Because every big important company needs its own language to control
the world :)
the world :)
BengtB
Jan 12, 2012, 10:44:38 AM1/12/12
to General Dart Discussion
Yes! Way to go!
I just checked out isolates the other day and immediately thought of
the client/server communication. Erlang make it nearly totally
transparent if the isolate equivalents are local or one another
machine and this would be a natural step for Dart. With Dart on both
the client and the server...
Glad to hear that you are actively working on it!
Thank you. Dart is exciting!
/Bengt B
On 10 Jan, 21:40, Gilad Bracha <gbra...@google.com> wrote:
> The plan is to use isolates and message passing. We're not there yet, but
> you should not have to deal with low-level mechanics in the long run.
>
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Bob Nystrom <rnyst...@google.com> wrote:
I just checked out isolates the other day and immediately thought of
the client/server communication. Erlang make it nearly totally
transparent if the isolate equivalents are local or one another
machine and this would be a natural step for Dart. With Dart on both
the client and the server...
Glad to hear that you are actively working on it!
Thank you. Dart is exciting!
/Bengt B
On 10 Jan, 21:40, Gilad Bracha <gbra...@google.com> wrote:
> The plan is to use isolates and message passing. We're not there yet, but
> you should not have to deal with low-level mechanics in the long run.
>
Christian Grobmeier
Jan 12, 2012, 10:49:16 AM1/12/12
to BengtB, General Dart Discussion
amazing approach!
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